Updated it a bit. I wont be adding too many highlights to the texture, I think the normal and specular mapping will do a better job. If anyone knows how to get this working ingame I'd really like to know. I've tried following a few tutorials but havent got it to work yet.
The redone features don't look that authentic, too 'simulated' (for lack of a better word). The lighting obviously doesn't need to be as overdone as the current NS textures but it still needs to look believable. The feature towards the centre of the pic needs some work, at the moment it still looks a bit MSPaint-like.
Despite my comments I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this turns out, keep up the good work and we'll be on our way to getting NS Sourced!
<!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Jan 13 2005, 01:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Jan 13 2005, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Looks quite plain compared with the original <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It does look good but I have to agree, the little square bit in the middle lacks depth and there is some reflectiveness on the original which haven't been put on. Although, a much better job than I could have done, by far.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kalias+Jan 13 2005, 10:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kalias @ Jan 13 2005, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I often find blending old textures in with new ones looks interesting... I don't know about you guys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
great idea.. lets see if its impliments well... someone tell mrben to convert over either veil or eclipse nd throw this in nd see if it works alright compared...
Cool Kalias. I never really liked the idea of having parts of the original underneath but that looks pretty good. I've got the normal and specular mapping done (just needs tweaking) and I've merged the original in with the remake a bit. I'll have some ingame screenshots of it when I can get the specular mapping to look just right.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2005
Tried something with randomly chosen texture, wall_panel11:
- resized it to 512*512 - duplicated texture layer - filter emboss (height 2, amount 500) - set the embossed layer to lighten @ 50% opacity - added adjustment layer brightness/contrast and fiddled arround with it
Works for more texuture to get some detail back after the resize blur:
<!--QuoteBegin-Kalias+Jan 13 2005, 10:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kalias @ Jan 13 2005, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I often find blending old textures in with new ones looks interesting... I don't know about you guys. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The wall lab looks good, and the wall panel is ok, its still a tad grainy.
A short tuto follows for those who want to know.
Here is the real problem. Were all used to just making the texture. What we need are 3 textures: the base, the normal map, and the specular factor. What i have discovered about generating normal maps from textures is that they are UGLY. Normal maps should be made first for things that have simple geometry. Enlarging already exising NS textures might work, but they already have specualr data draw into the base texture. In engine it looks bad. Instead, you use specular factor, which is an alpha chanel. The specular factor determines how reflective a surface is, and changes based on how light or dark the alpha is. Specular factor uses cube maps to render its reflections. It is fine to make the specular factor after the base texure is made.
So the short version is, make normal maps first, make textures without any specular highlights, and you can make the specular factor after the base texture. NOTE: all textures should be 32 bit tga in final format
The second component here is combining all these layers and setting the material type. For this we need to edit the vmt file which combines all this stuff. To see more go to collective.valve-erc.com and go to the SDK doccumentation under materials.
Here is a link (working) to a source rendering presentation which is very informative.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you use specular factor, which is an alpha chanel. The specular factor determines how reflective a surface is, and changes based on how light or dark the alpha is.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So its a greyscale channel alpha? I'll have to look into that
I've got Normal Mapping and Specular highlighting working, but its only reflecting the cubemap. I think making a specular factor would be helpfull.
Having a rotating space station effect would be absolutely awesome. Think of the other posibilities, better wires, hanging ragdolls (for fun). Maybe have it so Turret Factories actually spawn a turret INSIDE of itself, and a marine picks it up and places it. Distortion cloaking effects, instead of lamo alpha.
I definately like that spinning idea, high-poly hives and aliens, realistic looking onos' that dont have triangles for ****. Cool stuff to interact with (small static props, make a phys_paper entity ;o, it would be incredibely easy)
The possibilities are endless.
Ragdolls are a big one that I look forward to. Think about it, you frag an onos and his body just goes limp (instead of predefined and over-dramatic BLeeeeegh dying animation, same with other aliens) And maybe make it so friendlies have to knife out the guy stuck inside the stomach XD, or just keep it the way it is, but put an animation where he climbs out.
The better lighting FX, maybe take advantage of the camera texture setup (to see in other places, maybe make that a new structure for marine 'CAMERA' or alien too)
Well whatever, I need to go get my angst out on something else. </rant>
think about it- just what NS has always needed, more on the ground teamwork from marines dealing with the map. EG a box is too heavy for 1 mearine to lift, so another comes over, they both press use, and they move the box into a door, slowing skulks, but only enraging the onos who gores it out of the way!
and think of how many entities we could have!!!!!!!!! *cries with joy*
'norn, you could do with blurring out those dark blotches in the top left of the texture, the ones near the rivet, all you need to do is blur the old texture in those places until they're not as noticable/disappear.
The rest looks good, just that blotchy bit stands out.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
can't wait to get an ingame shot of wall_lab done... then we'll know if we can convert it all, probably we can, nd i nominate norn for it.. haha.. others will help
Like Flay said on the main news page, we (the Dev team) really want to do NS:Source, but we don't know for sure if we're going to do it.
It's really likely that it's going to happen (I would be suprised if it doesn't), but we don't want to do a straight port of the current graphics (which would be a major letdown for most people--who here has played Half-Life:Source?) and we haven't looked at portability of the code yet. I haven't worked with Source yet personally (the SDK is on my hard drive and I've glanced at it, but I have another project at the moment that's taking all my time).
Assuming that we do decide that it's viable, NS:Source will take a while to produce--months, not days--as you've figured out, there's a *lot* of art that needs to be redone <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. It's really cool to see you guys working the kinks out of the system, and it will potentially make the port go faster if some of the learning curve is handled now... I guess what I'm trying to say is thumbs up on texture experiments and test maps, but even though it's really exciting to think of what NS could be on the Source engine it's a little early for switching gears and thinking of NS:Source as the current game.
I really, really don't want somebody to put hundreds of hours into a masterpiece for the Source engine and then have it sit indefinitely, and we haven't had our first dev meeting about formally planning NS:Source yet. The internal focus is on making the NS we have a product worthy of final 3.0 release before we move on <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yes, there is also specular mapping, which reflects the cubemaps and gives the texture a slight metallic sheen to it, but its only really noticeable when moving.
This is the latest update to the texture. This is the one seen ingame. I actually really like this version, because it looks more metallic. The previous versions were rather washed out.
Nice to see the NS community pulling things together on their own <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The chrome plated walls in HL2 (like on a roof or something) are super nice and super sheeny. Like you said, a lot of it shows up as you move, but I think the walls should be a bit shiny-er if possible. Looking good though.
I was contemplating remaking a bunch of NS textures along with all you other people who have tried it, but then I decided that if the NS team takes NS to Source all that work would be a bit of a waste.
I have to say that I think the NS textures always have looked a bit cartoony, and it will probably be even more noticeable in source unless they are remade entirely from scratch. Nevertheless this looks really good <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Despite my comments I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this turns out, keep up the good work and we'll be on our way to getting NS Sourced!
~ DarkATi
It does look good but I have to agree, the little square bit in the middle lacks depth and there is some reflectiveness on the original which haven't been put on. Although, a much better job than I could have done, by far.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- resized it to 512*512
- duplicated texture layer
- filter emboss (height 2, amount 500)
- set the embossed layer to lighten @ 50% opacity
- added adjustment layer brightness/contrast and fiddled arround with it
Works for more texuture to get some detail back after the resize blur:
<img src='http://img67.exs.cx/img67/1998/walllab7lg.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
A short tuto follows for those who want to know.
Here is the real problem. Were all used to just making the texture.
What we need are 3 textures: the base, the normal map, and the specular factor.
What i have discovered about generating normal maps from textures is that they are UGLY. Normal maps should be made first for things that have simple geometry.
Enlarging already exising NS textures might work, but they already have specualr data draw into the base texture. In engine it looks bad. Instead, you use specular factor, which is an alpha chanel. The specular factor determines how reflective a surface is, and changes based on how light or dark the alpha is. Specular factor uses cube maps to render its reflections. It is fine to make the specular factor after the base texure is made.
So the short version is, make normal maps first, make textures without any specular highlights, and you can make the specular factor after the base texture. NOTE: all textures should be 32 bit tga in final format
The second component here is combining all these layers and setting the material type. For this we need to edit the vmt file which combines all this stuff. To see more go to collective.valve-erc.com and go to the SDK doccumentation under materials.
Here is a link (working) to a source rendering presentation which is very informative.
<a href='http://www2.ati.com/developer/gdc/D3DTutorial10_Half-Life2_Shading.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www2.ati.com/developer/gdc/D3DTutor...fe2_Shading.pdf</a>
ok, now it should work!
*gets down off of his block*
*coughs out some clouds*
Keep up the good work boys!
EDIT: IT WORKED! 4th time submitting, anyone else having problems?
So its a greyscale channel alpha? I'll have to look into that
I've got Normal Mapping and Specular highlighting working, but its only reflecting the cubemap. I think making a specular factor would be helpfull.
Thy l33tness is so great, that there beith no smily to convey my humility!
Think of the other posibilities, better wires, hanging ragdolls (for fun).
Maybe have it so Turret Factories actually spawn a turret INSIDE of itself, and a marine picks it up and places it. Distortion cloaking effects, instead of lamo alpha.
I definately like that spinning idea, high-poly hives and aliens, realistic looking onos' that dont have triangles for ****.
Cool stuff to interact with (small static props, make a phys_paper entity ;o, it would be incredibely easy)
The possibilities are endless.
Ragdolls are a big one that I look forward to.
Think about it, you frag an onos and his body just goes limp (instead of predefined and over-dramatic BLeeeeegh dying animation, same with other aliens)
And maybe make it so friendlies have to knife out the guy stuck inside the stomach XD, or just keep it the way it is, but put an animation where he climbs out.
The better lighting FX, maybe take advantage of the camera texture setup (to see in other places, maybe make that a new structure for marine 'CAMERA' or alien too)
Well whatever, I need to go get my angst out on something else.
</rant>
team physics objects!
think about it- just what NS has always needed, more on the ground teamwork from marines dealing with the map. EG a box is too heavy for 1 mearine to lift, so another comes over, they both press use, and they move the box into a door, slowing skulks, but only enraging the onos who gores it out of the way!
and think of how many entities we could have!!!!!!!!! *cries with joy*
anyway, team_phys is what i really want for NS
driveable drop ships, with manable guns, where the team spawns move with the ship
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So awsome
Awesometastic
The rest looks good, just that blotchy bit stands out.
driveable drop ships, with manable guns, where the team spawns move with the ship
:0 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Info_player_start has no Parent field :(
Maybe I should keep working on my NS map, it is (most likely) getting ported to source after all.
Like Flay said on the main news page, we (the Dev team) really want to do NS:Source, but we don't know for sure if we're going to do it.
It's really likely that it's going to happen (I would be suprised if it doesn't), but we don't want to do a straight port of the current graphics (which would be a major letdown for most people--who here has played Half-Life:Source?) and we haven't looked at portability of the code yet. I haven't worked with Source yet personally (the SDK is on my hard drive and I've glanced at it, but I have another project at the moment that's taking all my time).
Assuming that we do decide that it's viable, NS:Source will take a while to produce--months, not days--as you've figured out, there's a *lot* of art that needs to be redone <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. It's really cool to see you guys working the kinks out of the system, and it will potentially make the port go faster if some of the learning curve is handled now... I guess what I'm trying to say is thumbs up on texture experiments and test maps, but even though it's really exciting to think of what NS could be on the Source engine it's a little early for switching gears and thinking of NS:Source as the current game.
I really, really don't want somebody to put hundreds of hours into a masterpiece for the Source engine and then have it sit indefinitely, and we haven't had our first dev meeting about formally planning NS:Source yet. The internal focus is on making the NS we have a product worthy of final 3.0 release before we move on <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://img148.exs.cx/img148/6757/lab18rm.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Metal properties in action..
<img src='http://img142.exs.cx/img142/4818/labshoot5kd.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Normal mapping. (Note how the bolt looks 3D) Image brightened up a bit.
<img src='http://img142.exs.cx/img142/7569/normal6jh.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
edit:
Oh yes, there is also specular mapping, which reflects the cubemaps and gives the texture a slight metallic sheen to it, but its only really noticeable when moving.
This is the latest update to the texture. This is the one seen ingame. I actually really like this version, because it looks more metallic. The previous versions were rather washed out.
<img src='http://img105.exs.cx/img105/7329/walllabcopy7qh.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Nice to see the NS community pulling things together on their own <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I was contemplating remaking a bunch of NS textures along with all you other people who have tried it, but then I decided that if the NS team takes NS to Source all that work would be a bit of a waste.