cwag just dont speak <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ants don't have communism they have a queen in control and seperates the workers from the soldiers and it's not run by workers. It's more like a monarchy.
Im all for communism. It works, we dont have like, any unemployment and everybodys content. it will close the gap between the sickeningly rich and the disturbingly poor.
MMMMmmmm I'd have to go with Communism. They get the nicer uniform. I love the jaunty caps with the high brim and the silver...its just darling
why limit it to just comm/cap? why not let people argue the case for whatever they want? I've got some good counter-anarchist arguments if anyone wants em.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
most people seem to take communism as a bad thing just because there hasn't been a true communist country. But in truth, i resent the communism we have seen as it's almost always a dictatorship rather than TRUE communism.
You fail to see that the reality and the label attached are not necessarily the same thing.
Again I have to bemoan that the ideals of Communism (which I am not necessarily endorsing) are not really represented by what China has become, or what the USSR was. The state descibed in Das Kapital is far more true to Sweden than other self professed states.
Sweden had a (virtually) Marxist communist state, no matter what its called now.
<!--QuoteBegin--[tbZ]BeAst+Nov 7 2003, 10:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([tbZ]BeAst @ Nov 7 2003, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You fail to see that the reality and the label attached are not necessarily the same thing.
Again I have to bemoan that the ideals of Communism (which I am not necessarily endorsing) are not really represented by what China has become, or what the USSR was. The state descibed in Das Kapital is far more true to Sweden than other self professed states.
Sweden had a (virtually) Marxist communist state, no matter what its called now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Marx envisioned the abolishment of capital, Sweden redistributes capital.
My great-grandfather was sentenced to death by the soviets in the USSR for demonstrating against the puppet government they had installed in Poland. <b>edit:</b> He also taught the poor how to mine their own coal. At the time the state coal mining companies had been preventing coal from being purchased by the locals because it was 'needed' (read more profitable) in Russia. The state companies did not like this and had him deported to Russia.
He ended up spending 10 years in a gulag in Siberia before he managed to escape to the United States.
Call me odd but I have the strangest aversion to communism. Anyone have any ideas why?
Communism as an ideal is great. Communism in practice never works, whereas capitalism always has mixed results, usually with more good for more people than other systems. A simple look at history makes this pretty clear. If we could change the fundemental motivations of human beings, a communist system would be great. We can't, so the best we can do is try to make a capitalist system with as little corruption as possible. It's not ideal or perfect, but it's the best the human race can do in my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--Urza+Nov 7 2003, 10:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Urza @ Nov 7 2003, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--[tbZ]BeAst+Nov 7 2003, 10:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([tbZ]BeAst @ Nov 7 2003, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You fail to see that the reality and the label attached are not necessarily the same thing.
Again I have to bemoan that the ideals of Communism (which I am not necessarily endorsing) are not really represented by what China has become, or what the USSR was. The state descibed in Das Kapital is far more true to Sweden than other self professed states.
Sweden had a (virtually) Marxist communist state, no matter what its called now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marx envisioned the abolishment of capital, Sweden redistributes capital. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not quite, unless you envision people using their hands to plough fields.
He argued for the abolition of capital as profit.
Instead public ownership of the means of production (including capital).
<!--QuoteBegin--wizard@psu+Nov 7 2003, 01:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Nov 7 2003, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My great-grandfather was sentenced to death by the soviets in the USSR for demonstrating against the puppet government they had installed in Poland. <b>edit:</b> He also taught the poor how to mine their own coal. At the time the state coal mining companies had been preventing coal from being purchased by the locals because it was 'needed' (read more profitable) in Russia. The state companies did not like this and had him deported to Russia.
He ended up spending 10 years in a gulag in Siberia before he managed to escape to the United States.
Call me odd but I have the strangest aversion to communism. Anyone have any ideas why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it because your uncle was victimised by a corrupt regime?
As soon as you mention the coal being sold for profit, it puts a different perspctive on whether this is a problem with communism though.
<!--QuoteBegin--Quantum_Duck+Nov 7 2003, 04:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quantum_Duck @ Nov 7 2003, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Communism as an ideal is great. Communism in practice never works, whereas capitalism always has mixed results, usually with more good for more people than other systems. A simple look at history makes this pretty clear. If we could change the fundemental motivations of human beings, a communist system would be great. We can't, so the best we can do is try to make a capitalist system with as little corruption as possible. It's not ideal or perfect, but it's the best the human race can do in my opinion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd agree. We had in the UK a mixed system where public utilities were centrally planned and controlled, and most other industries were laissez faire. It worked at least as well (for the perspctive of being a fair and humane system) as many others.
I've been giving some deep thought to this. Part of the problems with the real life application of communism stems from the innacuracy of central planning. Numbers are never quite right. this means you get inefficiencies. Something like too many or too few cars being produced isn't a major issue (take a bus, or allocate the supply to next year) but with services or perishables it can be.
Then I had a small thought. Online buying, and more specifically the technology which automatically orders your food (you must have seen reports of "wonder fridges") - I thought: Hang on. If that works, its tantamount to getting cetralised planning. Perhaps a communist society is possible, but only <i>after</i> a successful capitalist one....
Communism works so almost perfect in every area in theory. but you can only keep the people of the state to have opinions and freedoms for so long, eventually theyll start a revolution, its gonna happen in cuba, its gonna happen in N Korea and i think China still has it but itll happen there too, only time will tell.
Comments
menix, what point are you trying to make??
MMMMmmmm I'd have to go with Communism. They get the nicer uniform. I love the jaunty caps with the high brim and the silver...its just darling
why limit it to just comm/cap? why not let people argue the case for whatever they want? I've got some good counter-anarchist arguments if anyone wants em.
Again I have to bemoan that the ideals of Communism (which I am not necessarily endorsing) are not really represented by what China has become, or what the USSR was. The state descibed in Das Kapital is far more true to Sweden than other self professed states.
Sweden had a (virtually) Marxist communist state, no matter what its called now.
Again I have to bemoan that the ideals of Communism (which I am not necessarily endorsing) are not really represented by what China has become, or what the USSR was. The state descibed in Das Kapital is far more true to Sweden than other self professed states.
Sweden had a (virtually) Marxist communist state, no matter what its called now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marx envisioned the abolishment of capital, Sweden redistributes capital.
He ended up spending 10 years in a gulag in Siberia before he managed to escape to the United States.
Call me odd but I have the strangest aversion to communism. Anyone have any ideas why?
Again I have to bemoan that the ideals of Communism (which I am not necessarily endorsing) are not really represented by what China has become, or what the USSR was. The state descibed in Das Kapital is far more true to Sweden than other self professed states.
Sweden had a (virtually) Marxist communist state, no matter what its called now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marx envisioned the abolishment of capital, Sweden redistributes capital. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not quite, unless you envision people using their hands to plough fields.
He argued for the abolition of capital as profit.
Instead public ownership of the means of production (including capital).
He ended up spending 10 years in a gulag in Siberia before he managed to escape to the United States.
Call me odd but I have the strangest aversion to communism. Anyone have any ideas why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it because your uncle was victimised by a corrupt regime?
As soon as you mention the coal being sold for profit, it puts a different perspctive on whether this is a problem with communism though.
I'd agree. We had in the UK a mixed system where public utilities were centrally planned and controlled, and most other industries were laissez faire. It worked at least as well (for the perspctive of being a fair and humane system) as many others.
I've been giving some deep thought to this. Part of the problems with the real life application of communism stems from the innacuracy of central planning. Numbers are never quite right. this means you get inefficiencies. Something like too many or too few cars being produced isn't a major issue (take a bus, or allocate the supply to next year) but with services or perishables it can be.
Then I had a small thought. Online buying, and more specifically the technology which automatically orders your food (you must have seen reports of "wonder fridges") - I thought: Hang on. If that works, its tantamount to getting cetralised planning. Perhaps a communist society is possible, but only <i>after</i> a successful capitalist one....
anyway, food for thought