Hacking The Maps Again
ViPr
Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members
Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members
<div class="IPBDescription">they're doing it again</div> game server admins! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> stop taking the special effects out of the maps! this is not your mod so you can't crapify it if you feel like it! i thought this annoying practice was supposed to stop after version 2.0. btw most of the entities i'm seeing ripped out are supposed to be client side anyway so it shouldn't help the server at all to remove them.
anyway i'm going to keep a list of all the servers i find that do this and i will post them in this thread so players can avoid those servers. if you admins decide to restore the non-crapified maps then i'll check your server and remove you from the blacklist. k thnx bye.
anyway i'm going to keep a list of all the servers i find that do this and i will post them in this thread so players can avoid those servers. if you admins decide to restore the non-crapified maps then i'll check your server and remove you from the blacklist. k thnx bye.
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Comments
Server operators do a huge service to this community and as such, even if they run the servers in a way that I personally or any of you, do not agree with, are entitled to some respect for the effort, materials and even money they put into it.
It is *very* hard to build up a reputation for a server. It takes a lot of work and dedication. Conversely, it's very easy for some mal-content to destroy that same reputation with a word or scentence.
The simple fact of the matter is that no server will suit 100% of people. If you don't like a server, then go play elsewhere. We're not interested in hearing (here) why you don't like it.
So, we're putting a moratorium on discussions of servers.
- 'Bad' server threads because there are no 'Bad' servers, there are only servers that some people don't like.
- 'Good' server threads because they inevitably descend into "Bad Server" threads.
Server Operators and/or Fans may still *advertise* their servers in the appropriate places, however stick to the FACTS and keep opinions out of it.
joev. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry it had to be said,but don't stereotype any servers.kthxbye.
It really depends though. Some maps look fugly as hell when the entities are removed, but they are allowed to do it if they feel it improves server/client performance/ping.
The ultimate solution is to simply move on to another server and remember not to visit that server again.
if Flayra is not going to regulate the game servers then he's going to lose out to games that do have that quality assurance policy.
Btw quality insurance policy comes along when you freaking PAY FOR THE GAME, but you didnt, because this is a free mod. Okay thanks bye.
If he wants to have floating pink elephants around the map, he can do that.
Heck, and if he does, you don't have a right to complain. Make your own server the way you want it to be.
You can't make one happy without making the other one mad.
No, he's <i>Dangeresque</i>.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmm, so art galleries are free to make their own adjustments to display items? You know, I think Mona Lisa's cheeks could use some more color... *runs off with a red magic marker*
Now that I think about it, Nebraska should make the football field in Memorial Stadium 80 yards instead of 100. Fit more seats in and maybe Jammal Lord can complete a pass here and there...
Hmm, so art galleries are free to make their own adjustments to display items? You know, I think Mona Lisa's cheeks could use some more color... *runs off with a red magic marker*
Now that I think about it, Nebraska should make the football field in Memorial Stadium 80 yards instead of 100. Fit more seats in and maybe Jammal Lord can complete a pass here and there... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Mona Lisa is an origanal and can only be modifiyed by the owner.
But if you want to add color to a print of The Mona Lisa, buy a print and go for it.
Just because it's free doesn't mean you're not stomping all over someone's hard work. Sure, server operators put a lot into their servers - and I do respect that. But I don't go around trying to change what they've worked so hard to establish.
Now what about a regular sculpture in an outside sculpture garden or in front of a building somewhere? I pay nothing to see this... So clearly it's ok if I take a hacksaw and hammer and chisel to it, right? That is what you're getting at, isn't it?
An excellent example, sir
if Flayra is not going to regulate the game servers then he's going to lose out to games that do have that quality assurance policy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what do you think, Flayra should stop by every server, every day, and check every map?
oh hey xzilen get pink elephants on your server
Just because it's free doesn't mean you're not stomping all over someone's hard work. Sure, server operators put a lot into their servers - and I do respect that. But I don't go around trying to change what they've worked so hard to establish.
Now what about a regular sculpture in an outside sculpture garden or in front of a building somewhere? I pay nothing to see this... So clearly it's ok if I take a hacksaw and hammer and chisel to it, right? That is what you're getting at, isn't it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I understand why you wouldn't like (and trust me, I don't modify maps), I don't see as there is anything we can do about it, and it really is up to the server admins, as dumb as a choice it is for them to do.
For the record (if you didn't know), KungFuSquirrel is the creator of the extremely popular ns_eclipse and ns_veil. Frankly, I'd be upset if someone stripped out some of my work, too, and I know how long and hard KFS worked on both of those maps (heck, they're barely recognizable when compared to the first versions I ever played of each).
If server ops really feel the need to strip the maps, I would hope that they say as much in the ID line of their server, or at least in their on-join message.
It's up to the players which servers they want to play on. Personally, I don't generally play on modded servers, because I like NS the way it was originally intended by its creators, and I respect the hard work they put into it. Make your own choice.
Aside from that, keep this topic civil, please. And keep in mind that server bashing is not allowed.
So what those admins try to do make their servers better for the players by removing small optical elements that have no impact on the game itself.
I don't know any servers that run such modified maps, but think I can see why they are doing this.
However understanding it does not mean i like it.
I would not want anybody to modify my map, my music or pictures without permission.
I also do not like any gameplay-changing plugin like health-armory, lerk-lift and stuff like that.
But, if you like it or not, as long as you don't pay for that server, you simply have to accept the admins' desicions.
If you don't like it, go play somewhere else.
If you want to write your little black-list, have fun, but don't post it here or on IRC... or prepare to have NemO or coil comming after you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hyper
In your painting example it's like this: Their ns_ecplise is a copy of yours which they can do what they want with. You own the <b>only</b> original of the map. You wouldn't let anybody change something in the .rmf and save it, never to be changed again, neither would the painting owner.
I don't agree that people should be doing this. The game should be played how it comes. I've never saw a server like this, so I'd hazard a guess that there are only a handful of server which do this.
if Flayra is not going to regulate the game servers then he's going to lose out to games that do have that quality assurance policy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lamborghinis don't come with a stereo, ac or any nice thrills.
Its a race car, it ment to be a barebones engine on a set of wheels kinda car.
But this is off topic.
Its there server, they can run it how they like, if you don't like it.
DON'T PLAY THERE!
Just a list of servers that have modded maps, thats all.
What you decide to do with this list is up to the viewers.
IMHO:
The original author, unless he has given up his rights on his creation, always hold the rights on it (still this has to be seen regarding under what circunstances he has down his work: i.e: if he had done the art for a game like Tomb Raider, maybe his work belongs first to Core Design then).
The fact is, if you paid for something to own a licence, then the licenced product is effectively yours.
But if it comes for free, i.e. the original author doesn't requires you to pay for a copy, it doesn't mean that he allowed you to modify, mutilate in any maner his work.
You can do so only if you get his permission. Or at least that's the way it should be.
Look.
I've drawn a pic of an alien concept art lately. I felt like I would post it on the artwork forums and so did I.
It's displayed there for free, I don't ask people to pay-to-see it.
Still it doesn't mean that this picture belongs to you, right?
A forum goer named Beast asked me if he could rework it a bit. I know he's going to change some of the things I've done but still, he asked before, and as I felt like he could do some interesting stuff, I gave him permission to modify my work.
This is how things should go.
My opinion.
And, as I didn't know that KF-Squirrel was the original creator of those maps, I would like to take the oportunity to thank him warmly, because it's not often that map-designers get credits for their fabulous work.
Thanks Alot!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I hope I may do such awesome works too one day! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lol, this reminds me of a game where people use derivates of magic formulas in order to do magic spells. Every spellcaster has a derivated formula on a parchment in order to use there spells, but the creator of the spell holds the original parchment.
If he decided to destroy this very original parchment, then all other formula parchments would cease to be effective...
I just Imagined map creators had the same kind of powers... you wouldn't want to cr*p them off right? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
So please, even if they don't, don't do foolish things. They worked hard in order for you to get a free entertainment. the NS game couldn't even work without their dedication. They deserve some respect.
my 2cents.
First - I like NS the way it was intended, everything from models to maps.
Second - As a server operator <b>if</b> I see that taking out certain features of a map will increase performance for my clients, but not do any real damage to the way the map was intended to be played I would have every right to do it. I am providing a service for the NS community. My clan and I admin and pay for a NS server for anyone that wants it, when you admin and or pay for a server then you have every right to do what is best for your situation, until then, if you don't like it don't play there.
Third - My server is stock settings, you will get everything that the map creators put into there design, I like it this way and I am fortunate enough to have a beefy enough server to not worry about the entities and special effects to have to remove them.
Fourth - If I can only scrounge around and find a server to put online that has the bare minimum hardware requirements and lags out with those entities and nice special features enabled, the next best option according to those complaining is for me not to put a server up. I disagree. In the last 3 years I have spent about $1000 on servers (not just NS) and countless hours of time admining, upgrading, and tweaking (yes NS). I may not have donated money to the NS team for development (yet), but I have donated time to help out the best way I can by promoting it with a server and running a clan that actively participates in NS as well.
Fifth - If you don't like what the server admin does, then don't play there, it is that simple, there are enough servers out there at the current moment that you should be able to find one the way you like. If you don't find one exactly as you like it, then PM me and I will give you the address of a hosting company that will charge you $50 a month for an 18 player NS server that you can run and admin on your own.
While I respect the admins right to run his/her server the way they want to I allso feel I should be "safe" to play NS as its creater ment for it to be played or at least WARNED that its been hacked by the admin.
While I respect the admins right to run his/her server the way they want to I allso feel I should be "safe" to play NS as its creater ment for it to be played or at least WARNED that its been hacked by the admin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, any and all mods that I would make to a server that would change the way the game was intended to be played would be right there for everyone to see. Why hide it, let everyone know what you have done, and you wont get your server in a don't play here list.
"Natural Selection" is a trademark owned by Charles G. Cleveland</i>
That's Flayra, and noone else.
That to me appears to be the point of contention, however in my mind regardless of the technicality of the argument it only makes good sense for any editing done to the maps be done with the permission of its creater. Not that I'll bet KF Squirrel would like to be inundated by emails for requests to turn particle effects off.
IMO if server admins are going to change anything on their server, such as turning particle effects off it should be posted in its join messages or message of the day. Additionally, whether they turn particle effects off or not is an issue between the server admin and the map creator NOT THE PLAYERS. As far as the players are concerned, they're playing on someone elses turf, if you don't like it go somewhere else.
Additionally as to flayra's copyright I beleive that the liscence for half life and associated materials for the creation of mods and such details that such materials are the property of valve, thats why mods such as gunman chronicles, DoD and CS go retail, valve doesn't have to buy them, they just take them off the mod makers and give them a job to keep developing it.
As for KF-Squirrel, I'd also like to thank you alot, you're one excellent map maker dude. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
btw it seems in HL1 even transparent surfaces are server run entities even though they are not animated or changeable in any way. when i'm lagging and turn round a corner sometimes the transparent surfaces are not there and then they pop-up a split second later. there's no reason for the server to be telling our computers where those things are, right?