I had a little run around nancy the other day to see what the sticking onos issue was all about. I noticed a few things.
The dome under Mother hive could do with being shrunk a tiny bit so an onos can walk around the bottom of it.
The bent door in Mother would benefit from being a tiny bit less bent so an onos can get past it.
The red corridors are an onos nightmare. Perhaps you could do something with them too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CheesyPeteza+Sep 2 2003, 04:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Sep 2 2003, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I had a little run around nancy the other day to see what the sticking onos issue was all about. I noticed a few things.
The dome under Mother hive could do with being shrunk a tiny bit so an onos can walk around the bottom of it.
The bent door in Mother would benefit from being a tiny bit less bent so an onos can get past it.
The red corridors are an onos nightmare. Perhaps you could do something with them too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, Lazer himself will be working on Onos Maneuverability in the new ns_nancy, I've already made Port a friendly place for Onos to romp and play in but as for the corridors, Lazer we'll or should be working on that.
Don't worry, I already tried walking around with an onos. I just don't understand the logic in trying to figure out where an onos gets stuck in a version of nancy where oni get stuck all the time do to hull problems. With the new hulls I was able to walk around the bottom of Mother without much of a problem. (what's the point of being down there anyway?) Leaving mother as an onos was a bit tricky, and I might improve that a little in the future, but for now nancy is quite fine for onos, you just can't put ocs in doorways.
Also, port is harder to include than I though. I needed to redo a lot of the brushwork. (kept the same structure, I just saw brushes were split in some of the mose unnecisarry spots from the decompile file that ATi may have overlooked) It's almost ready.
I'm trying to get the map to compile again, but I just need to cut back on the textures used. The texture memory got exceded. So... I'm gonna need to make a few of the big similar textures the same textures. (not a real problem)
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 07:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 07:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't worry, I already tried walking around with an onos. I just don't understand the logic in trying to figure out where an onos gets stuck in a version of nancy where oni get stuck all the time do to hull problems. With the new hulls I was able to walk around the bottom of Mother without much of a problem. (what's the point of being down there anyway?) Leaving mother as an onos was a bit tricky, and I might improve that a little in the future, but for now nancy is quite fine for onos, you just can't put ocs in doorways.
Also, port is harder to include than I though. I needed to redo a lot of the brushwork. (kept the same structure, I just saw brushes were split in some of the mose unnecisarry spots from the decompile file that ATi may have overlooked) It's almost ready.
I'm trying to get the map to compile again, but I just need to cut back on the textures used. The texture memory got exceded. So... I'm gonna need to make a few of the big similar textures the same textures. (not a real problem) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hope it wasn't too nasty I know it was fragmented all over the area. Thanks though Lazer.
Shoot me the final geometric build and I'll work on lighting the place up just right. Will be posting a better .rad file in a little as well.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 04:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, port is harder to include than I though. I needed to redo a lot of the brushwork. (kept the same structure, I just saw brushes were split in some of the mose unnecisarry spots from the decompile file that ATi may have overlooked) It's almost ready. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, so I should throw out the work I'm doing on fixing the brushwork in Port Engine then? Was working on that most of the day today.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Sep 2 2003, 09:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Sep 2 2003, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 04:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, port is harder to include than I though. I needed to redo a lot of the brushwork. (kept the same structure, I just saw brushes were split in some of the mose unnecisarry spots from the decompile file that ATi may have overlooked) It's almost ready. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, so I should throw out the work I'm doing on fixing the brushwork in Port Engine then? Was working on that most of the day today. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Eesh that sucks, I thought you guys had coordinated efforts.
Nah, I don't think Lazer knew I had a working copy of Port from you I was editing too. And it's not a big deal, it's been quite a struggle to re-brush everything while keeping your texturing.
I usually re-brush by marking one section 'detail' brushwork (something HL doesn't support) and hiding everything else, then rebuilding the brushes from scratch, flipping the 'detail' brushwork on and off to see how close they match, a bit like the 3D version of onion-skin animating. :-)
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 04:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm trying to get the map to compile again, but I just need to cut back on the textures used. The texture memory got exceded. So... I'm gonna need to make a few of the big similar textures the same textures. (not a real problem) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As a quick side-note regarding texture use... I just realized I did use some higher-res versions of a couple textures that are available in two resolutions. Those might free up a lot of space also, using lower-res versions of the texturing in appropriate places.
Ya well this is getting strange. I've removed a lot of 256x256 textures and I'm still getting the error. I'm probably very close to fixing it though. I just don't see how the original nancy managed to do it if I'm having trouble with what I believe to be fewer textures. I'm not sure though...
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ya well this is getting strange. I've removed a lot of 256x256 textures and I'm still getting the error. I'm probably very close to fixing it though. I just don't see how the original nancy managed to do it if I'm having trouble with what I believe to be fewer textures. I'm not sure though... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I DO know what error you're talking about now. The reason I got it is because I was using a texture I made at 512 X 746 (or close to that) it wouldn't let me move on gave me MAX_MIP or something, is that what you're getting? Because it has to be higher res texture that's causing it then I guess. I didn't know some textures came in two resolutions so if Port is bogging you down I'm sorry. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
No no... Nancy uses a lot of textures. Now from what I had I guess I was just barely making it with all the textures I needed to use to reamke it as close as I could. Now when I put in subspace I started getting the errors. Then adding port was just adding to the problem. All that's required is for me to go back and look for textures that look similar and just choose one to use throughout. I still have a couple more textures I could remove...
Use the texture replacement tool and "only used textures" checkbox, Lazer. They will save you some time, assuming you are using Hammer. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
DarkATI: although this may sound like an obvious question, I assume that the marines can no longer build in the space behind the broken door in port engine? Just want to check because that was rather nasty.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 08:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 08:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ya well this is getting strange. I've removed a lot of 256x256 textures and I'm still getting the error. I'm probably very close to fixing it though. I just don't see how the original nancy managed to do it if I'm having trouble with what I believe to be fewer textures. I'm not sure though... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As a double-check, you ARE using only a -wadinclude that references the common-hydra.wad and ns_nancy.wad files, correct? NOTHING else should be included in the .bsp file. There was only around 300k out of 4MB of texinfo in the original Nancy .BSP.
I'd still like to see what values you're getting from the compile tools, as I get the distinct feeling you're using the wrong command-line options because of Hammer being it's usual stone-cold **** to tell it to NOT include textures in a BSP file. The 'default' tools don't support only including some textures in the BSP file and some in the WAD file, so Hammer makes the assumption that if any are included in the BSP file, all are included. At least, this was true last I checked with Hammer.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Sep 3 2003, 12:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Sep 3 2003, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> DarkATI: although this may sound like an obvious question, I assume that the marines can no longer build in the space behind the broken door in port engine? Just want to check because that was rather nasty. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, all bugs from nancy are known, and will be fixed, by DarkATI or Lazer(since he runs the project).
<!--QuoteBegin--OneEyed+Sep 3 2003, 12:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OneEyed @ Sep 3 2003, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Sep 3 2003, 12:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Sep 3 2003, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> DarkATI: although this may sound like an obvious question, I assume that the marines can no longer build in the space behind the broken door in port engine? Just want to check because that was rather nasty. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, all bugs from nancy are known, and will be fixed, by DarkATI or Lazer(since he runs the project). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed.
<!--QuoteBegin--OneEyed+Sep 2 2003, 09:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OneEyed @ Sep 2 2003, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, all bugs from nancy are known, and will be fixed, by DarkATI or Lazer(since he runs the project). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey... what am I, chopped liver? =^.^=
I like <a href='http://countermap.counter-strike.net/Nemesis/index.php?p=2' target='_blank'>Batch Compiler</a> Has support for OptPlns and other things.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 3 2003, 07:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 3 2003, 07:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alright well in the csg line I have this:
It SHOULD work like this right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As a quick comparison for the compile-flags I'm using...
The <span style='color:yellow'>common-hydra.wad</span> is a wad file from XP-Cagey's toolset, that includes things like the 'bevel' and 'null' textures.
The <span style='color:yellow'>-cliptype normalized</span> is a switch that tells XP-Cagey's hlcsg to fix one specific bug in the 'normal' CSG routines, while leaving a second bug for me to fix, as the mapper, using the 'bevel' texture as appropriate.
So, yes, the command-line you posted SHOULD work, with the original toolset. The newer toolsets (hlcsg/hlbsp/hlvis/hlrad replacements) that are available support further options, and do a better job compiling smaller and more bug-free maps though.
By the way, since I didn't hear back otherwise, I'm still working at my re-brushing of the cooridor and 'ground vent' by Port Engine Room Hive, along with the area I originally brushed-out for Dark ATi.
I ended up re-building the 'diagonal' section of that cooridor with a proper width, so it doesn't look quite so squashed there. Feels like the same width from end to end now, instead of pinched in the middle.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Sep 3 2003, 12:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Sep 3 2003, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By the way, since I didn't hear back otherwise, I'm still working at my re-brushing of the cooridor and 'ground vent' by Port Engine Room Hive, along with the area I originally brushed-out for Dark ATi.
I ended up re-building the 'diagonal' section of that cooridor with a proper width, so it doesn't look quite so squashed there. Feels like the same width from end to end now, instead of pinched in the middle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Cool, thanks WWs.
Well, I have the tunnel completed, along with the 'ladder' area and mini-vent. I had to scrap most of the texturing and re-build it, but the brush geometry is VASTLY simplified in that area now, and the exits still line up exactly, so it's still plug-and-play with other map fragments.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Sep 3 2003, 09:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Sep 3 2003, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The <span style='color:yellow'>common-hydra.wad</span> is a wad file from XP-Cagey's toolset, that includes things like the 'bevel' and 'null' textures. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I think common-hydra.wad is normally distributed with Radiant -- hydra is the person in charge of Radiant HL development. The wad I'm sticking in my download is simply titled zhlt.wad... if I did include common-hydra earlier, it was a mistake, and I just confirmed it's not in the current download <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 3 2003, 01:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 3 2003, 01:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nice. Where can I get Cagey's tools? I wanna try them out instead of Merl's. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Webbed thread, top of this forum <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
The dome under Mother hive could do with being shrunk a tiny bit so an onos can walk around the bottom of it.
The bent door in Mother would benefit from being a tiny bit less bent so an onos can get past it.
The red corridors are an onos nightmare. Perhaps you could do something with them too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The dome under Mother hive could do with being shrunk a tiny bit so an onos can walk around the bottom of it.
The bent door in Mother would benefit from being a tiny bit less bent so an onos can get past it.
The red corridors are an onos nightmare. Perhaps you could do something with them too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, Lazer himself will be working on Onos Maneuverability in the new ns_nancy, I've already made Port a friendly place for Onos to romp and play in but as for the corridors, Lazer we'll or should be working on that.
~ DarkATi
Also, port is harder to include than I though. I needed to redo a lot of the brushwork. (kept the same structure, I just saw brushes were split in some of the mose unnecisarry spots from the decompile file that ATi may have overlooked) It's almost ready.
I'm trying to get the map to compile again, but I just need to cut back on the textures used. The texture memory got exceded. So... I'm gonna need to make a few of the big similar textures the same textures. (not a real problem)
Also, port is harder to include than I though. I needed to redo a lot of the brushwork. (kept the same structure, I just saw brushes were split in some of the mose unnecisarry spots from the decompile file that ATi may have overlooked) It's almost ready.
I'm trying to get the map to compile again, but I just need to cut back on the textures used. The texture memory got exceded. So... I'm gonna need to make a few of the big similar textures the same textures. (not a real problem) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hope it wasn't too nasty I know it was fragmented all over the area. Thanks though Lazer.
Shoot me the final geometric build and I'll work on lighting the place up just right. Will be posting a better .rad file in a little as well.
~ DarkATi
Ah, so I should throw out the work I'm doing on fixing the brushwork in Port Engine then? Was working on that most of the day today.
Ah, so I should throw out the work I'm doing on fixing the brushwork in Port Engine then? Was working on that most of the day today. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eesh that sucks, I thought you guys had coordinated efforts.
~ DarkATi
I usually re-brush by marking one section 'detail' brushwork (something HL doesn't support) and hiding everything else, then rebuilding the brushes from scratch, flipping the 'detail' brushwork on and off to see how close they match, a bit like the 3D version of onion-skin animating. :-)
As a quick side-note regarding texture use... I just realized I did use some higher-res versions of a couple textures that are available in two resolutions. Those might free up a lot of space also, using lower-res versions of the texturing in appropriate places.
I DO know what error you're talking about now. The reason I got it is because I was using a texture I made at 512 X 746 (or close to that) it wouldn't let me move on gave me MAX_MIP or something, is that what you're getting? Because it has to be higher res texture that's causing it then I guess. I didn't know some textures came in two resolutions so if Port is bogging you down I'm sorry. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
As a double-check, you ARE using only a -wadinclude that references the common-hydra.wad and ns_nancy.wad files, correct? NOTHING else should be included in the .bsp file. There was only around 300k out of 4MB of texinfo in the original Nancy .BSP.
I'd still like to see what values you're getting from the compile tools, as I get the distinct feeling you're using the wrong command-line options because of Hammer being it's usual stone-cold **** to tell it to NOT include textures in a BSP file. The 'default' tools don't support only including some textures in the BSP file and some in the WAD file, so Hammer makes the assumption that if any are included in the BSP file, all are included. At least, this was true last I checked with Hammer.
Yes, all bugs from nancy are known, and will be fixed, by DarkATI or Lazer(since he runs the project).
Yes, all bugs from nancy are known, and will be fixed, by DarkATI or Lazer(since he runs the project). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed.
~ DarkATi
Hey... what am I, chopped liver? =^.^=
$path\$file -hullfile D:\games\Half-Life\ns\nshulls.txt -wadinclude ns_nancy.wad
It SHOULD work like this right?
$path\$file -hullfile D:\games\Half-Life\ns\nshulls.txt -wadinclude ns_nancy.wad
It SHOULD work like this right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a quick comparison for the compile-flags I'm using...
$path\$file -hullfile d:/hl/ns/nshulls.txt -wadinclude d:/hl/ns/ns_nancy.wad -wadinclude d:/hl/Radiant-1.3/common-hydra.wad -cliptype normalized
The <span style='color:yellow'>common-hydra.wad</span> is a wad file from XP-Cagey's toolset, that includes things like the 'bevel' and 'null' textures.
The <span style='color:yellow'>-cliptype normalized</span> is a switch that tells XP-Cagey's hlcsg to fix one specific bug in the 'normal' CSG routines, while leaving a second bug for me to fix, as the mapper, using the 'bevel' texture as appropriate.
So, yes, the command-line you posted SHOULD work, with the original toolset. The newer toolsets (hlcsg/hlbsp/hlvis/hlrad replacements) that are available support further options, and do a better job compiling smaller and more bug-free maps though.
I ended up re-building the 'diagonal' section of that cooridor with a proper width, so it doesn't look quite so squashed there. Feels like the same width from end to end now, instead of pinched in the middle.
I ended up re-building the 'diagonal' section of that cooridor with a proper width, so it doesn't look quite so squashed there. Feels like the same width from end to end now, instead of pinched in the middle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cool, thanks WWs.
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I think common-hydra.wad is normally distributed with Radiant -- hydra is the person in charge of Radiant HL development. The wad I'm sticking in my download is simply titled zhlt.wad... if I did include common-hydra earlier, it was a mistake, and I just confirmed it's not in the current download <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Webbed thread, top of this forum <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->