I'm visualizing seriously messed-up people standing in front a microwave, pulling their hair and doing the pee-pee dance, while waiting for their cup of sixty second noodles to finish.
+1.
I remember doing similar things to your story of SWG when I used to play Tribal Wars many, many years ago.
Sending the new blood on lengthy, pointless quests to sort the wheat from the chaff, good times. Elitism is fantastic.
Don't worry, when these peasants are up against against the wall because us NWO members have had enough, once and for all, then we can have a drink and laugh about this.
I just had to chime in here that this is a great post. Extremely well articulated, and with a lot of great food for thought questions. Not to disregard all the other posts in this thread of course, there's some good discussion and opposing viewpoints going on ( just please try and stay civil everyone, no need to name call one another )
But seriously. What? Because I can't imagine this being anything but a deliberate parody. Especially all of two or three posts after a Developer chimed in to say play nice. Suddenly it's all talk about people who don't want timers being "ADD whiny little snots" and pee pee dances.
Construction delay at the moment doesn't seem to fit Subnautica game mechanics. It feels quite incoherent to the rest of the gameplay, and the concept of the waiting mechanic does not tie-in into anything else.
A different game where crafting delay works for example is Stardew Valley (eg. crafting metal bars, recycling materials). However it works for that game because the concept of 'waiting' for rewards exists for a multitude of other things (growing crops, crab pots, etc). Additionally (and perhaps more importantly) the length of time required to obtain items has a great influence on the rest of the gameplay; for example different events occur during morning and nights, once-in-a-month event occurs per season. Time management then becomes an interesting part of the gameplay.
Subnautica however has nothing similar. Maybe if day and nights are longer are more differentiated in its experience and rewards it will be better idea. Or perhaps if the in-game 'days elapsed' has effect on gameplay (radiation radius, periodic animal migrations, etc...). Then the delay in crafting can be made to fit in an interesting way.
I'm interested in experiencing crafting times, but I would also like to be able to schedule items at the same time, I could then stack 10 min worth of crafting, make sure I will have enough energy, and then go mine or do whatever else than to sit and wait for everything to craft. If that would be the case, crafting times could be even longer than they are now, but then again what would be the point, . I think its pointless as it is now, there are games that make crafting an active part of the game, introducing "minigames" like bashing a hammer into the anvil or whatever, to obfuscate the crafting times, I'm not a big fan of that. I'm not sure what the devs are trying to achieve by adding the timer.
SidchickenPlumbing the subnautican depthsJoin Date: 2016-02-16Member: 213125Members
Yeah.... I can't see how long construction timers would be a good thing. Imagine if Skyrim made you actually spend the time forging suits of armor and weapons? Their whole smithing mechanic would have been ignored/abandoned by the players nearly instantly. The only difference here is we don't have the option of ignoring crafting - it's too essential to your survival.
waterlubberNear an oceanJoin Date: 2016-07-04Member: 219589Members
There are few reasons for such a change.
One would be pacing, however, this is a pretty bad way to accomplish pacing. Now, good pacing is something you don't notice. For example, the fragment gathering and the like are one element of pacing, but if you make that element too long or too boring, people are going to get bored. In Subnautica, the previous pacing was gather fragments + resources, which was all the work, and then finally get your prize to completing that pile of effort. However, "bad" pacing would be arbitrary timers on things. A 10 minute timer gives you enough time to, what, gather meaningless resources? You don't have the fragments and a trip to another biome, scanning those fragments, and going back will take more than the 240 second timer. What it really will make me do is alt-tab to youtube and watch some videos. Elite Dangerous has the same thing with supercruise, which I really don't like. GregTech (a Minecraft mod) is another culprit of this, where you need to wait up to an hour for random component #329 to finish.
Another would be realism. However, realism for the sake of 'realism' is a BAD THING. Subnautica is not a simulator, a la KSP or FlightGear or XPlane. These things need realism of some kind, and KSP is debatable. The Aurora is powered by a magic pixie dust unobtanium drive and, as we all know, MPDU drives do not exist in real life. (Yet).
Subnautica is not a mobile game. It is not Peeper Crush, CreepvineVille or Clash of Crashes. I don't need arbitrary timers.
And, one last thing to end, I make a lot of Titanium/Plasteel ingots. Please stop making me pick them up manually. It's irritating.
New account here: Been posting on Steam for a while.
This is the change that made me come here, create a new account which means one more login and password to keep track of.
This change sucks. It does nothing to add gameplay, and doubles down on another bad change which kills immersion while crafting. Fabricating was fine, you made your stuff, it went into inventory, and you went on your way. I'm not looking for "instant gratification". I want difficulty levels added that make resources in general a bit harder to come by (once they fix silver, anyway). Waiting for a machine to finish is the poster boy for "unnecessary time sink".
If I had bought this as a finished product, this would be enough to make me get a refund. Full stop.
I love the game. I love the concepts and execution so far. This is taking the game in a bad direction and needs to be reverted fast, before the devs waste any more zots going down this road and we reach some 'sunk cost' fallacy.
I'm all for it. Gives me time to go out and start gathering for extra supplies and build up a surplus of materials for other items while I wait.
You had this time all along, though.
And it doesn't give you enough time to do that anyways.
What are you going to do in those 2-4 minutes?
No one has answered this, yet. It's all been a bunch of buzz words like "time management" but nothing actually specific.
There isn't nearly enough base management in this game to take up even 1 minute unless you fuck up royally or are adding something new. 2-4 minutes outside of your base is hardly enough time to gather anything unless you put the base right next to some resources.
Hell, half the time I'm in my base it's simply to craft something and then go right back to exploring. There literally is nothing else I want or need to do while I am there.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
Just leaving and trusting the forums regulars to respect a differing opinion in the slightest while they call newcomers swinging by to say "Hey I made an account literally to say I don't like this" peasants and worse, is generally a bad call.
If not for all the "No you just don't GET IT! Instant gratification! You shouldn't have even said anything at all!" backlash, most of us wouldn't have to start giving concrete examples, developer trivia, Or have actual Indie Devs swing by, (Thanks for Omega Flowey by the way) just to try and explain that hey, no, disliking timers is not just an idea for people "pulling their hair and doing the pee-pee dance"
All while we are told that we're the ones being insulting and dogpiling to try and smother opinions in the process, alas. And I'm pretty sure nowhere near as many posts against timers in this thread, has compared those who like timers to someone with a physical or mental disability.
I would adore the "Why repeat yourselves if people act civil?" thing to be reality. But the fact of the matter is, it's all that toxic less than civilized smack talk from the regulars (while paradoxically demanding we be civil mid insult), that means the new guys have to roll up their sleeves, and dig through the muck to ensure their opinions are not buried under vitriol.
And in the end, repeating your basic opinion is still far more civil than "LOL, Children! Shut up and go away!" Which isn't what YOU said, but what this thread has seen plenty of already.
I came here and made this account because this is stupid. The timer isn't making the game harder, and it isn't forcing them to wait. It's forcing them to craft multiple fabricators to deal with it. That's not challenging at all, that's time wasting, pure padding.
It takes time to collect the resources, that's the time we spend. There's no realism in saying the magical fabricator which literally reassembles matter should have to take four minutes. It's an arbitrary method to bloat playtime, because a game is "better" if it takes 100 hours to play, even if you don't do anything in that 100 hours (No Man's Sky).
Having to explore wrecks for fragments and new biomes for resources is engaging and fun, farming silver for my fabricator factory is a waste of time. I think James Rolfe mentioned it in one of his Angry Need videos. It's like your playing the game and every now and then someone comes and takes the controller away from you for a few minutes and won't let you play. Is that fun? No.
And it isn't that you have to sit and wait, it's that you have to waste time building superfluous utilities for no reason but to artificially lengthen gameplay.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
People tried just saying it was silly and little more with the lantern fruit thread. Then they were nerfed anyway, for no good reason. Now we're worried that the devs might believe that people like the change because there isn't enough speaking out against it.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
People tried just saying it was silly and little more with the lantern fruit thread. Then they were nerfed anyway, for no good reason. Now we're worried that the devs might believe that people like the change because there isn't enough speaking out against it.
Have a quote from the "official playtesters" on the Trello, RE lantern fruit nerds
Seems... fixed? changed? Whatever the appropriate word is.
Either way, much better. No longer can I carry four space-peaches and survive a 5 day expedition!
I mean, if that were EVER ACTUALLY TRUE, then yeah Fruit would have been totally OP. Instead, the "Permission required to vote or comment" Playesters are making things up to reinforce their preferences getting patched in as a good thing.
Plus, given that is, again, permission required official playtester comments, just trying to brush it off as "LOL you mad about hyperbole!" is highly irresponsible.
Though every time I have attempted to bring this up, people try to deflect with "LOL but Fruit was OP so who cares if the playtesters are basically lying to the devs?"
If fruit was ENTIRELY REMOVED FROM THE GAME, but that meant we could guarantee reliable, non ballat stuffing BS playtester responsibility? Then I'd take fruit being removed entirely to get that, for the safety of overall balance to the rest of the game.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
People tried just saying it was silly and little more with the lantern fruit thread. Then they were nerfed anyway, for no good reason. Now we're worried that the devs might believe that people like the change because there isn't enough speaking out against it.
Um, lantern fruits needed the nerf. They were way OP.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
People tried just saying it was silly and little more with the lantern fruit thread. Then they were nerfed anyway, for no good reason. Now we're worried that the devs might believe that people like the change because there isn't enough speaking out against it.
Um, lantern fruits needed the nerf. They were way OP.
Not even slightly. This is why we can't have nice things.
Lantern fruits had problems,but those problems were based more around their role and niche being poorly defined than them simply being too powerful. The fix didnt fix that because the "playtesters" made things up in their feedback instead of trying to identify the actual issue. Which is unsurprising, really, but still worrying.
Wait, can someone explain why people are still arguing about this? Some people are doing the right thing: sharing their opinion on the matter and leaving, maybe coming back to give feedback on other people's opinions and why they disagree in a CIVIL manner. Let's just stop the bickering and see what the devs do next. If they change it, fine, if they don't fine, that's their decision, their vision for what they want the game to be. The devs have clearly already got the message, they read the forums, now lets just take a step back and wait a bloody second to actually see what the devs decide to do.
People tried just saying it was silly and little more with the lantern fruit thread. Then they were nerfed anyway, for no good reason. Now we're worried that the devs might believe that people like the change because there isn't enough speaking out against it.
Um, lantern fruits needed the nerf. They were way OP.
Not even slightly. This is why we can't have nice things.
Before you could survive on like 2 lantern fruit trees. Now you actually have to go look for food. Besides, its like how in the early days of the game all you ever had to do was eat Creepvine. That got a nerf too. At least the Marblemelon makes you wait for one individual plant to grow and you have to keep replanting them.
Also, see: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/143994/nerfed-lantern-fruit
Personally i`m like new timers for crafting. For me, it more realistic and i have more immersion.
And i agree, that need option in menu (the post above), for impatient players - "no timers", and for very impatient kids and old men who have not time for the game - "Unlocked all blueprints" (like official trainer-cheat).
The fix didnt fix that because the "playtesters" made things up in their feedback instead of trying to identify the actual issue.
You've leveled an accusation here, but I'm not sure at whom. Are the "playtesters" you're referring to the ones employed by Unknown worlds, or are they us, the early release players?
What exactly did they make up? How did you come by this information?
The fix didnt fix that because the "playtesters" made things up in their feedback instead of trying to identify the actual issue.
You've leveled an accusation here, but I'm not sure at whom. Are the "playtesters" you're referring to the ones employed by Unknown worlds, or are they us, the early release players?
What exactly did they make up? How did you come by this information?
I think you want to read the post before mine. From what I understand they are normal players that got a promotion to some kind of inside track, but I dunno. I am not overly concerned about the lantern fruit because it felt like a quick bandaid and I trust the devs will do a proper balance and goal eval for them eventually so switching the dominant strategy to fish tanks isnt really that big a deal for now.
The fix didnt fix that because the "playtesters" made things up in their feedback instead of trying to identify the actual issue.
You've leveled an accusation here, but I'm not sure at whom. Are the "playtesters" you're referring to the ones employed by Unknown worlds, or are they us, the early release players?
What exactly did they make up? How did you come by this information?
Uh, hello? RIGHT HERE. Linked all of a few posts ago.
Seems... fixed? changed? Whatever the appropriate word is.
Either way, much better. No longer can I carry four space-peaches and survive a 5 day expedition!
Official playtesters. Only allowed to vote and comment on those trello cards with the playtester permissions granted to them.
Making things up on said official playtest trello cards.
Who cares if it was fruit, or the seaglide, or flashlight battery time? The issues is NOT the Fruit. The issue is official playtesters Voting for design changes and making up wild BS about how effective something is or not (Because if fruit didn't rot after 5 days in your inventory, yeah that WOULD have Been OP).
But people keep trying to deflecting "fruit was OP anyways who cares LOL" every time this particular example is brought up. When that is soooooo not the point, or the actual problem being discussed.
Playtesters just making **** up would be bad regardless of what mechanic is involved, regardless of it should have been nerfed or buffed. Because that only makes developmet harder for the Devs, when they can't even trust their official playtesters TM to not feed them a line of BS to reinforce their personal preferences.
Saying "LOL Fruit is OP anyways!" dodges the question. Saying "But the Devs listen to feedback from more than just the trello!" Dodges the question.
The fact remains, some of their playtesters are just making **** up. And that is no baseless accusation because you were literally just linked to the trello card showcasing an example of such.
Unless you want to say the developer trello does not count, I guess? What's a more official source than that for playtester feedback, if you know of one off hand?
Personally i`m like new timers for crafting. For me, it more realistic and i have more immersion.
And i agree, that need option in menu (the post above), for impatient players - "no timers", and for very impatient kids and old men who have not time for the game - "Unlocked all blueprints" (like official trainer-cheat).
Yeah, your right. The magical fabricator turning chunks of unrefined metal into a welder should take at least four minutes. That's how long the one I have installed in my house, after all.
Weak logic to support grinding. If you wanted it to be realistic, you would want the crafting process to be more detailed, not just take an arbitrary amount of time. I wish people would stop calling it realism when that is total BS.
The fix didnt fix that because the "playtesters" made things up in their feedback instead of trying to identify the actual issue.
You've leveled an accusation here, but I'm not sure at whom. Are the "playtesters" you're referring to the ones employed by Unknown worlds, or are they us, the early release players?
What exactly did they make up? How did you come by this information?
I think you want to read the post before mine. From what I understand they are normal players that got a promotion to some kind of inside track, but I dunno. I am not overly concerned about the lantern fruit because it felt like a quick bandaid and I trust the devs will do a proper balance and goal eval for them eventually so switching the dominant strategy to fish tanks isnt really that big a deal for now.
Sure that's not entirely true, but that was a post made after the change was implemented and was very clearly a joke.
The fact remains, some of their playtesters are just making **** up. And that is no baseless accusation because you were literally just linked to the trello card showcasing an example of such.
Give an example that was not an obvious joke, and that CAUSED the devs to do something, not something made AFTER a change.
The fix didnt fix that because the "playtesters" made things up in their feedback instead of trying to identify the actual issue.
You've leveled an accusation here, but I'm not sure at whom. Are the "playtesters" you're referring to the ones employed by Unknown worlds, or are they us, the early release players?
What exactly did they make up? How did you come by this information?
I think you want to read the post before mine. From what I understand they are normal players that got a promotion to some kind of inside track, but I dunno. I am not overly concerned about the lantern fruit because it felt like a quick bandaid and I trust the devs will do a proper balance and goal eval for them eventually so switching the dominant strategy to fish tanks isnt really that big a deal for now.
Sure that's not entirely true, but that was a post made after the change was implemented and was very clearly a joke.
The fact remains, some of their playtesters are just making **** up. And that is no baseless accusation because you were literally just linked to the trello card showcasing an example of such.
Give an example that was not an obvious joke, and that CAUSED the devs to do something, not something made AFTER a change.
Uh... Could you say what source is more official than the Developer trello?
Also, what kind of responsible playtester fills in their developer permission required playtester statements with jokes instead of actual balance feedback, then?
Just trying to laugh that off is concerning. I would have expected a higher standard for anyone putting the time in to be an "Official Playtester", not treating it as some joke to write in whatever they want.
After the fact feedback is also important for whether or not a design is kept of reverted, as well. Otherwise, people would not be making polls for timer changes and the like if after the fact feedback was meaningless (And the guy who made the poll thread WANTS timers).
Uh, hello? RIGHT HERE. Linked all of a few posts ago.
Official playtesters. Only allowed to vote and comment on those trello cards with the playtester permissions granted to them.
Comments
Uh- what?
But seriously. What? Because I can't imagine this being anything but a deliberate parody. Especially all of two or three posts after a Developer chimed in to say play nice. Suddenly it's all talk about people who don't want timers being "ADD whiny little snots" and pee pee dances.
This can't be serious... Right?
A different game where crafting delay works for example is Stardew Valley (eg. crafting metal bars, recycling materials). However it works for that game because the concept of 'waiting' for rewards exists for a multitude of other things (growing crops, crab pots, etc). Additionally (and perhaps more importantly) the length of time required to obtain items has a great influence on the rest of the gameplay; for example different events occur during morning and nights, once-in-a-month event occurs per season. Time management then becomes an interesting part of the gameplay.
Subnautica however has nothing similar. Maybe if day and nights are longer are more differentiated in its experience and rewards it will be better idea. Or perhaps if the in-game 'days elapsed' has effect on gameplay (radiation radius, periodic animal migrations, etc...). Then the delay in crafting can be made to fit in an interesting way.
Don't worry, I haven't taken your posts seriously since you complained about ad hominem and called someone a child in the same fucking sentence.
Holy Shit man, how do you do it?
You had this time all along, though.
One would be pacing, however, this is a pretty bad way to accomplish pacing. Now, good pacing is something you don't notice. For example, the fragment gathering and the like are one element of pacing, but if you make that element too long or too boring, people are going to get bored. In Subnautica, the previous pacing was gather fragments + resources, which was all the work, and then finally get your prize to completing that pile of effort. However, "bad" pacing would be arbitrary timers on things. A 10 minute timer gives you enough time to, what, gather meaningless resources? You don't have the fragments and a trip to another biome, scanning those fragments, and going back will take more than the 240 second timer. What it really will make me do is alt-tab to youtube and watch some videos. Elite Dangerous has the same thing with supercruise, which I really don't like. GregTech (a Minecraft mod) is another culprit of this, where you need to wait up to an hour for random component #329 to finish.
Another would be realism. However, realism for the sake of 'realism' is a BAD THING. Subnautica is not a simulator, a la KSP or FlightGear or XPlane. These things need realism of some kind, and KSP is debatable. The Aurora is powered by a magic pixie dust unobtanium drive and, as we all know, MPDU drives do not exist in real life. (Yet).
Subnautica is not a mobile game. It is not Peeper Crush, CreepvineVille or Clash of Crashes. I don't need arbitrary timers.
And, one last thing to end, I make a lot of Titanium/Plasteel ingots. Please stop making me pick them up manually. It's irritating.
Doesn't the game auto-pause if you alt-tab out? So that's not even an option.
This is the change that made me come here, create a new account which means one more login and password to keep track of.
This change sucks. It does nothing to add gameplay, and doubles down on another bad change which kills immersion while crafting. Fabricating was fine, you made your stuff, it went into inventory, and you went on your way. I'm not looking for "instant gratification". I want difficulty levels added that make resources in general a bit harder to come by (once they fix silver, anyway). Waiting for a machine to finish is the poster boy for "unnecessary time sink".
If I had bought this as a finished product, this would be enough to make me get a refund. Full stop.
I love the game. I love the concepts and execution so far. This is taking the game in a bad direction and needs to be reverted fast, before the devs waste any more zots going down this road and we reach some 'sunk cost' fallacy.
And it doesn't give you enough time to do that anyways.
What are you going to do in those 2-4 minutes?
No one has answered this, yet. It's all been a bunch of buzz words like "time management" but nothing actually specific.
There isn't nearly enough base management in this game to take up even 1 minute unless you fuck up royally or are adding something new. 2-4 minutes outside of your base is hardly enough time to gather anything unless you put the base right next to some resources.
Hell, half the time I'm in my base it's simply to craft something and then go right back to exploring. There literally is nothing else I want or need to do while I am there.
Just leaving and trusting the forums regulars to respect a differing opinion in the slightest while they call newcomers swinging by to say "Hey I made an account literally to say I don't like this" peasants and worse, is generally a bad call.
If not for all the "No you just don't GET IT! Instant gratification! You shouldn't have even said anything at all!" backlash, most of us wouldn't have to start giving concrete examples, developer trivia, Or have actual Indie Devs swing by, (Thanks for Omega Flowey by the way) just to try and explain that hey, no, disliking timers is not just an idea for people "pulling their hair and doing the pee-pee dance"
All while we are told that we're the ones being insulting and dogpiling to try and smother opinions in the process, alas. And I'm pretty sure nowhere near as many posts against timers in this thread, has compared those who like timers to someone with a physical or mental disability.
I would adore the "Why repeat yourselves if people act civil?" thing to be reality. But the fact of the matter is, it's all that toxic less than civilized smack talk from the regulars (while paradoxically demanding we be civil mid insult), that means the new guys have to roll up their sleeves, and dig through the muck to ensure their opinions are not buried under vitriol.
And in the end, repeating your basic opinion is still far more civil than "LOL, Children! Shut up and go away!" Which isn't what YOU said, but what this thread has seen plenty of already.
It takes time to collect the resources, that's the time we spend. There's no realism in saying the magical fabricator which literally reassembles matter should have to take four minutes. It's an arbitrary method to bloat playtime, because a game is "better" if it takes 100 hours to play, even if you don't do anything in that 100 hours (No Man's Sky).
Having to explore wrecks for fragments and new biomes for resources is engaging and fun, farming silver for my fabricator factory is a waste of time. I think James Rolfe mentioned it in one of his Angry Need videos. It's like your playing the game and every now and then someone comes and takes the controller away from you for a few minutes and won't let you play. Is that fun? No.
And it isn't that you have to sit and wait, it's that you have to waste time building superfluous utilities for no reason but to artificially lengthen gameplay.
Have a quote from the "official playtesters" on the Trello, RE lantern fruit nerds
https://trello.com/c/cGCu429e/2702-35042-balance-lantern-fruit-are-op-suggestion-inside
I mean, if that were EVER ACTUALLY TRUE, then yeah Fruit would have been totally OP. Instead, the "Permission required to vote or comment" Playesters are making things up to reinforce their preferences getting patched in as a good thing.
Plus, given that is, again, permission required official playtester comments, just trying to brush it off as "LOL you mad about hyperbole!" is highly irresponsible.
Though every time I have attempted to bring this up, people try to deflect with "LOL but Fruit was OP so who cares if the playtesters are basically lying to the devs?"
If fruit was ENTIRELY REMOVED FROM THE GAME, but that meant we could guarantee reliable, non ballat stuffing BS playtester responsibility? Then I'd take fruit being removed entirely to get that, for the safety of overall balance to the rest of the game.
Um, lantern fruits needed the nerf. They were way OP.
Before you could survive on like 2 lantern fruit trees. Now you actually have to go look for food. Besides, its like how in the early days of the game all you ever had to do was eat Creepvine. That got a nerf too. At least the Marblemelon makes you wait for one individual plant to grow and you have to keep replanting them.
Also, see: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/143994/nerfed-lantern-fruit
And i agree, that need option in menu (the post above), for impatient players - "no timers", and for very impatient kids and old men who have not time for the game - "Unlocked all blueprints" (like official trainer-cheat).
What exactly did they make up? How did you come by this information?
I think you want to read the post before mine. From what I understand they are normal players that got a promotion to some kind of inside track, but I dunno. I am not overly concerned about the lantern fruit because it felt like a quick bandaid and I trust the devs will do a proper balance and goal eval for them eventually so switching the dominant strategy to fish tanks isnt really that big a deal for now.
Uh, hello? RIGHT HERE. Linked all of a few posts ago.
https://trello.com/c/cGCu429e/2702-35042-balance-lantern-fruit-are-op-suggestion-inside
Official playtesters. Only allowed to vote and comment on those trello cards with the playtester permissions granted to them.
Making things up on said official playtest trello cards.
Who cares if it was fruit, or the seaglide, or flashlight battery time? The issues is NOT the Fruit. The issue is official playtesters Voting for design changes and making up wild BS about how effective something is or not (Because if fruit didn't rot after 5 days in your inventory, yeah that WOULD have Been OP).
But people keep trying to deflecting "fruit was OP anyways who cares LOL" every time this particular example is brought up. When that is soooooo not the point, or the actual problem being discussed.
Playtesters just making **** up would be bad regardless of what mechanic is involved, regardless of it should have been nerfed or buffed. Because that only makes developmet harder for the Devs, when they can't even trust their official playtesters TM to not feed them a line of BS to reinforce their personal preferences.
Saying "LOL Fruit is OP anyways!" dodges the question. Saying "But the Devs listen to feedback from more than just the trello!" Dodges the question.
The fact remains, some of their playtesters are just making **** up. And that is no baseless accusation because you were literally just linked to the trello card showcasing an example of such.
Unless you want to say the developer trello does not count, I guess? What's a more official source than that for playtester feedback, if you know of one off hand?
Yeah, your right. The magical fabricator turning chunks of unrefined metal into a welder should take at least four minutes. That's how long the one I have installed in my house, after all.
Weak logic to support grinding. If you wanted it to be realistic, you would want the crafting process to be more detailed, not just take an arbitrary amount of time. I wish people would stop calling it realism when that is total BS.
Sure that's not entirely true, but that was a post made after the change was implemented and was very clearly a joke.
Give an example that was not an obvious joke, and that CAUSED the devs to do something, not something made AFTER a change.
Uh... Could you say what source is more official than the Developer trello?
Also, what kind of responsible playtester fills in their developer permission required playtester statements with jokes instead of actual balance feedback, then?
Just trying to laugh that off is concerning. I would have expected a higher standard for anyone putting the time in to be an "Official Playtester", not treating it as some joke to write in whatever they want.
After the fact feedback is also important for whether or not a design is kept of reverted, as well. Otherwise, people would not be making polls for timer changes and the like if after the fact feedback was meaningless (And the guy who made the poll thread WANTS timers).