Simplifying NS2 - Thoughts on Gameplay (feedback wanted!) - Natural Selection 2

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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Server operators can make low level servers if they wanted to. They could restrict it to under 886 hive skill for example. Or even under 50 hours.

    The reason they don't do this is because those servers always remain empty. They are hard to fill.
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Players like @Sgt_Sass are why the NS2 Assault concept should get A LOT more attention.

    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/139456/ns2-assault-alpha/p1
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I think this says that level 3 or lower rookie servers are only viable around sales. Can be easilt adjusted upwards with the UWE Hotfix mod probly. Can just increase levels as it goes
  • RammlerRammler Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    I would also set the level up for rookie server. Imo level 6 or 7 would be a good balance between rookies and medium player.
  • UrgoUrgo france Join Date: 2014-08-26 Member: 198125Members
    Hi guys, would that be possible to be able to be on auto-join on a full server whilst playing on another server. For instance if you want to join a friend which is playing on a full server and you don't want to wait just watching the server browser, but play in the meantime.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    Urgo wrote: »
    Hi guys, would that be possible to be able to be on auto-join on a full server whilst playing on another server. For instance if you want to join a friend which is playing on a full server and you don't want to wait just watching the server browser, but play in the meantime.

    You can queue through the steam browser. Find your friend on steam overlay (Shift+Tab), right click his name, click join game and select auto retry.
  • TinkiTinki Join Date: 2013-12-03 Member: 189715Members
    If i remember correctly this doesn't work for servers with reserved slot.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    There should be more notification on damage types in combat. It isn't exactly apparent to people that certain weapons do more or less damage against certain things. Some kind of visual or audio cue would be beneficial to players despite how miniscule the changes are in some instances.

    http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/index.php?title=Damage_Types#List_of_Damage_Types
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2016
    Biting a structure already sounds different than a player. Damage numbers are a visual que. Although this does nothing for the flamethrower
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    edited February 2016
    There should be more notification on damage types in combat. It isn't exactly apparent to people that certain weapons do more or less damage against certain things. Some kind of visual or audio cue would be beneficial to players despite how miniscule the changes are in some instances.

    http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/index.php?title=Damage_Types#List_of_Damage_Types

    I've wanted to try an audio cue for alien life forms to determine what type of damage they took. So for example, if I'm a fade and I'm in a fight, I can tell quickly with a type of sound if I was hit by a full shotgun meat shot or if it was a partial one immediately. It would be like hit sounds, but they would be the opposite - hurt sounds. Not sure if people think this is too much of an advantage in a fight, but I think it would be really nice for focusing on your target and not having to look for a visual sign of damage taken. Might only be nice for a fade vs a shotgun, but it is a big part of the game.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    Deck_ wrote: »
    There should be more notification on damage types in combat. It isn't exactly apparent to people that certain weapons do more or less damage against certain things. Some kind of visual or audio cue would be beneficial to players despite how miniscule the changes are in some instances.

    http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/index.php?title=Damage_Types#List_of_Damage_Types

    I've wanted to try an audio cue for alien life forms to determine what type of damage they took. So for example, if I'm a fade and I'm in a fight, I can tell quickly with a type of sound if I was hit by a full shotgun meat shot or if it was a partial one immediately. It would be like hit sounds, but they would be the opposite - hurt sounds. Not sure if people think this is too much of an advantage in a fight, but I think it would be really nice for focusing on your target and not having to look for a visual sign of damage taken. Might only be nice for a fade vs a shotgun, but it is a big part of the game.
    This worked beautifully in NS1, you could hear your own pain sounds, which varied depending on damage taken.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    Mendasp wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    There should be more notification on damage types in combat. It isn't exactly apparent to people that certain weapons do more or less damage against certain things. Some kind of visual or audio cue would be beneficial to players despite how miniscule the changes are in some instances.

    http://wiki.unknownworlds.com/index.php?title=Damage_Types#List_of_Damage_Types

    I've wanted to try an audio cue for alien life forms to determine what type of damage they took. So for example, if I'm a fade and I'm in a fight, I can tell quickly with a type of sound if I was hit by a full shotgun meat shot or if it was a partial one immediately. It would be like hit sounds, but they would be the opposite - hurt sounds. Not sure if people think this is too much of an advantage in a fight, but I think it would be really nice for focusing on your target and not having to look for a visual sign of damage taken. Might only be nice for a fade vs a shotgun, but it is a big part of the game.
    This worked beautifully in NS1, you could hear your own pain sounds, which varied depending on damage taken.

    Great point, I'm not sure if I partially remembered that or not but that's cool it was in NS1. I figure with the new alien vision and all the indicators aliens have now (thanks for your addition of the energy bar and health bar near the crosshair) - we are still missing the audio cues. I would really like to see that considered. Thanks!
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2016


    NS1 had it all. First person evolving with dynamically changing fov, first person pain sounds, hivesight icons so you could see your alien teammates/stuff without needing a minimap, hive health and location hud indicator so you don't have to worry about your team being quiet when your base under attack or dropping a new hive, a different icon for parasited structures as opposed to marines(I think), build/health rings for both team's structures and friendly players, fall damage so you couldn't cheese tall areas, and countless other things that were never implemented into ns2.

    Pretty much all of these would improve ns2.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    edited February 2016
    ^ Awesome. Yes give the user options that don't give them unfair advantage. The thing about audio cues for fades is, it might make people less likely to lose their life form especially in small fights. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing, ha. Might stop some players from going in for a swipe again after taking a meat shot or 2 because they were too focused on getting the kill. Could change the way the game is played. I still think it's worth having though, fades need all the information they can get since it's such an easy life form to hit. Not sure if you need hivesight stuff for aliens, but I think they are working on hive and structure information that will be nice. I would like to see that and audio cues added.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Deck_ wrote: »
    ^ Awesome. Yes give the user options that don't give them unfair advantage. The thing about audio cues for fades is, it might make people less likely to lose their life form especially in small fights. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing, ha. Might stop some players from going in for a swipe again after taking a meat shot or 2 because they were too focused on getting the kill. Could change the way the game is played. I still think it's worth having though, fades need all the information they can get since it's such an easy life form to hit. Not sure if you need hivesight stuff for aliens, but I think they are working on hive and structure information that will be nice. I would like to see that and audio cues added.

    There's not really any unfair advantages to any of it, pain sounds can help teach newer players to pay attention to their health and can give better feedback that they're under attack, which basically helps them become better players and generally improve their experience overall. Hivesight icons are essentially the alien version of the minimap marines have on their hud, naturally there are tradeoffs between the two but both of them fit well for their respective side.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    edited February 2016
    Deck_ wrote: »
    ^ Awesome. Yes give the user options that don't give them unfair advantage. The thing about audio cues for fades is, it might make people less likely to lose their life form especially in small fights. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing, ha. Might stop some players from going in for a swipe again after taking a meat shot or 2 because they were too focused on getting the kill. Could change the way the game is played. I still think it's worth having though, fades need all the information they can get since it's such an easy life form to hit. Not sure if you need hivesight stuff for aliens, but I think they are working on hive and structure information that will be nice. I would like to see that and audio cues added.

    There's not really any unfair advantages to any of it, pain sounds can help teach newer players to pay attention to their health and can give better feedback that they're under attack, which basically helps them become better players and generally improve their experience overall. Hivesight icons are essentially the alien version of the minimap marines have on their hud, naturally there are tradeoffs between the two but both of them fit well for their respective side.

    I agree, I don't think it's unfair. I was just getting right up next to that idea in case someone thought it did. I think it could only help make players better, and let's face it - staying alive as a lifeform is important a lot of the time. Doesn't mean it's not worth being aggressive sometimes, but a lot of players could use help staying alive and assessing the situation. I'm not sure about hivesight. I know it's not motion tracking as you're only seeing your teammates, but a big part of the game is having to open your map, even on marines as it helps you better understand what to do next. With hivesight, you might not need to open your map as much on aliens (not sure) - and I dont know if that's a good thing or bad thing. Maybe some other players can share their thoughts on it. Also, not sure if it would affect FPS if you have hivesight throughout the whole map. I don't think it's worth it if it negatively affects FPS and we have dealt so long without it. At least you can see your teammates on the map.
  • ChrisStarkChrisStark Germany Join Date: 2016-02-11 Member: 212895Members, NS2 Playtester
    !! IDEA !!

    I haven't read the 20 pages but I also have another idea that I think is really simple to implement.

    When I die I usually take a look at the stats to check my resources to wether what I can buy next or evolve to.
    But the frame is focused on the spectated player and I have to search my name in the list. Why not frame the own name
    and place a camera symbol in front of the spectating player?

    Simple but useful.

    (highlighted this in case it goes under in comments.)
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Tane wrote: »
    -Give 1 point of score from landed parasite. This will encourage people to parasite more.
    I'm pretty sure this is the case already. The condition is however, that the marine has to be unparasited.

    Other than that I like your suggestions individually, I in particular like the medpack cost increase, but as you mention yourself; those changes would break overall balance. So it's easy enough for you to say this, but if this was implemented you'd have to address that overall balance.

    One thing that's for sure, it's unwise to implement all these points simultaneously. At any rate, this would take a long time to implement and test. I think the only ones with the proper Means to make this, is the compmod team.

    In short, I like your suggestions, I don't like you calling this easy.
  • TaneTane Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32441Members, Constellation
    I ment these changes to be easy to do. Only the shrinking of skulk would need modelling for example, but of course rebalancing the game would need time. Most of these changes have been said by me or others who mastered NS1 for over 3 years already. I have been part with many balance test groups and always people have agreed with them, but have said that now it's not the time to change the game that radically. I don't believe that any of these changes would actually happen.
  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
    Having PTed combat, health compared to size is a huge thing. Buffing the skulk havent worked, which some mods have done, and combat did to a redicoulus unkillable degree - I would LOVE to what happenes when it becomes smaller. I want to believe that the early game will be more balanced, and the skulks are bigger threat and more fun to play, but I have nothing to base this upon. Servers have changed lerks to 18 pres to give aliens a better early game, even in the early game skulks are forced to come in big groups or get massively good engagements for them to be worthwhile to attack any groups succesfully. This change is beautiful, and I would love to see it. One MIGHT need to nerf carapace a bit for the skulk, so it doesnt become the ns:combat killingmachine but otherwise : JUST DO IT!

    Upping the cost of meds isn't a bad idea - however, we must be careful that the marine comm doesnt become as "boring" as the alien comm. Right now, the marine comm requires alot of mechanical skill, while the alien comm, nearly none, due to the nature of pres tied to tres and upgrades that need to come up with lifeforms (metabolise with fades f.ex). This is the only problem I can foresee as a possibility.

    Sprinting is silly.

    Increased sneak speed is intriguing, and I fail to see any new strategies coming out of it - only setting up traps will be faster, and since the price of speed isn't that great it will be done more often. Me liky.

    Make the welder purchaseable at a small box in the chair? No need to break your back spending 10 res on an armory in the first 2 minutes, when you want to be getting resnotes.
  • ChrisStarkChrisStark Germany Join Date: 2016-02-11 Member: 212895Members, NS2 Playtester
    edited February 2016
    ChrisStark wrote: »
    !! IDEA !!

    I haven't read the 20 pages but I also have another idea that I think is really simple to implement.

    When I die I usually take a look at the stats to check my resources to wether what I can buy next or evolve to.
    But the frame is focused on the spectated player and I have to search my name in the list. Why not frame the own name
    and place a camera symbol in front of the spectating player?

    Simple but useful.

    (highlighted this in case it goes under in comments.)

    Erm I quote myself. Today when I played it was my name highlighted! When has this been implemented? In B287? Or is it a Mod at Woozas Server? But though the cam symbol is still a good idea I think despite the Name is shown up at top of the screen.

    Edit:
    Edit this time... I was wrong!! Your own name is just framed when alive. So my idea is still worth a look.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Tane wrote: »
    -One the core balance problems of NS2 is that mobility levels of marines and aliens are too close to each others. Aliens should have bigger advantage than marines in this area.
    Sprint isn't that much faster, but I agree with reduction in speed for marines overall.
    That being said, I don't think Aliens (the already mobile team that would regain their advantage with reducing marine speed) necessarily need gorge tunnels so early in a round, either.
    Tane wrote: »
    -Make welders standard equipment for marines.
    At the same time, make welders do structural damage type so that players out of ammo (or conserving) won't be at a deficit because they didn't know to drop their welder to use an axe instead.
    Tane wrote: »
    -Make skulk smaller.
    So long as its hitbox returns to oversized NS1 levels

  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Meta-changing balance changes are really helpful to strategy games.

    New season New meta would be the greatest
  • UrgoUrgo france Join Date: 2014-08-26 Member: 198125Members
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Urgo wrote: »
    Hi guys, would that be possible to be able to be on auto-join on a full server whilst playing on another server. For instance if you want to join a friend which is playing on a full server and you don't want to wait just watching the server browser, but play in the meantime.

    You can queue through the steam browser. Find your friend on steam overlay (Shift+Tab), right click his name, click join game and select auto retry.

    Yes that's a solution, but joining a friend is not the only case where you could want to join a full server while playing on another one.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    Urgo wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Urgo wrote: »
    Hi guys, would that be possible to be able to be on auto-join on a full server whilst playing on another server. For instance if you want to join a friend which is playing on a full server and you don't want to wait just watching the server browser, but play in the meantime.

    You can queue through the steam browser. Find your friend on steam overlay (Shift+Tab), right click his name, click join game and select auto retry.

    Yes that's a solution, but joining a friend is not the only case where you could want to join a full server while playing on another one.

    You can do that through the steam server browser (steam -> view -> servers -> ns2). But with the same limitation that Tinki mentioned; you can't join reserved slot servers with this method.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Tane wrote: »
    -Make welders standard equipment for marines.
    At the same time, make welders do structural damage type so that players out of ammo (or conserving) won't be at a deficit because they didn't know to drop their welder to use an axe instead.

    The welder should stay as it is and be switchable alongside the axe a la ns1. Why? Because the welder shouldn't be an upgrade to the axe or else we could have had the Heavy Machine Gun ages ago.


  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2016
    HMG is technically not an upgrade though with that reload cycle and bigger spread. If used correctly it is a beast though...

    AND IT SOUNDS COOL, TBH it was kinda the iconic weapon from NS with it's looks, sound and reload cycle :(

    Now I haz sad...
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