Hmmm, another invention that makes survival as eeeeasy as possible and increases the boredom factor.
That's almost exactly 180° the wrong direction for a survival game.
We've always called Subnautica an exploration game, that just happens to have survival elements in it. Indeed, you can even choose to play the game without the survival elements if you wish.
We're making tech that once a player gets to a certain level, they don't have to 'grind' anymore, and can focus on bigger things like exploration of the world & development of the story elements. When you're constantly searching to feed and water yourself, you tend to concentrate on that, as it's most important to your life. It's true the water filtration machine is not balanced at all, and we'll be dealing with that in coming patches. But as an early access title we're in a constant state of development, and 'bigger picture' things are not always apparent.
Well, thanks a lot for your declaration, Obraxis! I wasn't aware that Subnautica is no survival game ... although the whole plot (so far) seems to imply that.
But it was you - the devs - who chartered the trip for survival fans. Call it survival and hardcore mode. And now you lead exactly these aspects/motives of your 'new' clientele to another destination. Please take account of what you've started!
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I really really like the looks of the thing though.
Yes it 'only' produces water and salt, but damn... to end the painless grind (as stuff doesn't replenish in the world yet), its a lifesaver.
It would have been underwhelming if it was smaller. It has a nice big size.
We're making tech that once a player gets to a certain level, they don't have to 'grind' anymore, and can focus on bigger things like exploration of the world & development of the story elements. When you're constantly searching to feed and water yourself, you tend to concentrate on that, as it's most important to your life
Agreed. Built into the progression it becomes a natural addition at some point. Having played games that grow into nothing but endless grinding, I appreciate the foresight. As tasks grow, we need to be able to automate to some degree.
Indeed , automation is a staple for many similar crafting games. Endless repetition of a specific task for the sake of it does not make for good game design.
The water filtration machine is excellent. At last a machine that consumes power supply. Now the station needs an oxygen device for air support consuming power too.
Some additional thoughts for the water filtration machine:
- it shouldn't be placable above water level [bug]
- it's advanced tech that allows you to get plenty of water and therefore mid-game suited
- needs better components and blueprints (titanium,glass,chip,chemicals)
- is the best machine to produce chemical ideal water for all purposes and machinery (including nuclear reactors)
- should be able to pipe its output, so other devices can get input via pipeline
- two seperate and bigger output containers for salt and water and 1 container for input resources (bleach?)
A seperate note on survival and machines that help you getting food and water (like water filtration and farming):
It takes away the need to hunt for food and water, but it should consume lots of energy and force you to hunt for energy resources.
The energy system might have to be rebalanced for survival needs:
- self sustaining reactors (solar panels and thermal reactors) should cost more and provide less
- other reactors should have plenty resource storage to allow time for harvesting and relaxing
- all machinery should degrade on usage until failure and then have to be either repaired or rebuild
- no energy free use of hand tools like the builder
- no free air in bases underwater
The base model would start out slow but not give enough water for the player to be self sufficient - so could be early game. Upgrading to more efficient models would produce more.
I also like the idea of the base model also producing some poisonous/bad byproducts that you would have to dispose of safely (or they would pollute the water).
I believe it's close to perfect as is, in terms of its place in the game's progression and its simplicity to build.
Think about it: Aurora is a terraforming/colonization ship en route to an ocean planet that would naturally have little to no freshwater sources. Therefore, water filtration devices would be the first priority in the colonization process, i.e. the devices and the technology to fabricate them would be readily available.
Also keep in mind that the water filtration machine is simply a sci-fi distillery, evaporating and consensing water to separate salt. In fact, it consumes too much power in my opinion, even for today's standards. Mankind has been distilling water since antiquity; the process runs itself, energy (heating the water) only accelerates it.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Agreed on the oxygen generator idea. You should be able to hear fans quietly blowing around corridors when online. No fresh oxygen means carbon dioxide buildup over time.
OK. Just got one of these things, finally! They take forever to find and build and are expensive as hell. The fabricator can churn out water from bladderfish and bleach instantly, for practically no energy. This machine took forever, what, nearly an entire game day, and blacked out my base to trickle out two measly bottles of water?! Come on, Guys, what were you thinking?! This thing is waaaay too nerfed! This is beyond lame. Did anybody think this thing through first? It makes no sense, just because the game-writer wanted the player to have to keep hunting salt and bladderfish or something?
Due to its power requirements, a on/off switch WOULD be very nice. For the moonpool you have the option of not docking your seamoth, thereby preventing it using power.
For anything which hogs this much power, yes please.. a off switch. Especially if you do not know the power requirement.. Its not like the game tells us.
I actually did not realise and hit a power wall when I was doing stuff. (ever heared a base going online/offline nonstop for a minute orso? I have haha)
An on/off switch?? Look, the water filtration machine makes no sense, especially given Obraxis' comments regarding its intended game function -- reducing the grind aspect of water collection after the opening game. The fabricator churns out water by the gallon by extracting it out of bladderfish or processing sea-water with bleach, and it does this practically instantly, for almost no energy. The filtration device would never survive in a scenario that wasn't an arbitrary game plot device (and a nonsense one, to boot!). When I got one, it took a whole game day and all of the energy of my entire base to trickle out two measly bottles of water. If I hadn't had marblemellons handy I would have died of thirst waiting for this machine to drip out a single bottle of water. Ridiculous. Come on, Guys, you can do better than this. This thing is way too nerfed. It takes forever to find the blueprints and is expensive to build, requiring you to go get aerogel. OK, I can live with that. It's a nice challenge, but it doesn't live up to its intended function once you build the damned thing. Disappointing, is putting it mildly. It is easier to just keep scrounging for salt and giant tube coral, except that the giant tube corals are sparse in the later parts of the game scenario.
This machine makes no sense, either from a game perspective or from a non-contradictory in-game rationale. Hell, it would have just made more sense to give the fabricator an upgrade and let it churn out these big gulp bottles of water for way less energy and base-space. This item is practically a waste, as implemented, in terms of energy requirements, resource requirements, and even base space. I could see some point, if the machine took a while to produce salt blocks, but was much faster (and cheaper in energy!) in turning out water, but really, even if the player is going to build a deep base, it would almost make more sense to just stock up on bleach and make disinfected water at a drastically lower cost. Nonsense. The only thing this machine really changes is that it gives you bigger water bottles that still only take up one inventory slot. That's it, and that isn't even all that great an improvement when you consider the ridiculous amount of time and energy it will take to get that improvement. It makes no sense that this thing works as slowly as it does and for as much energy as it hogs.
You seriously dug out this corpse of a thread just to rant about your inability to provide your base with sufficient power? *sheesh*
If you can´t be bothered adding a few solar panels or a bio-reactor, then simply keep hunting bladderfish! Good luck...
Comments
We've always called Subnautica an exploration game, that just happens to have survival elements in it. Indeed, you can even choose to play the game without the survival elements if you wish.
We're making tech that once a player gets to a certain level, they don't have to 'grind' anymore, and can focus on bigger things like exploration of the world & development of the story elements. When you're constantly searching to feed and water yourself, you tend to concentrate on that, as it's most important to your life. It's true the water filtration machine is not balanced at all, and we'll be dealing with that in coming patches. But as an early access title we're in a constant state of development, and 'bigger picture' things are not always apparent.
But it was you - the devs - who chartered the trip for survival fans. Call it survival and hardcore mode. And now you lead exactly these aspects/motives of your 'new' clientele to another destination. Please take account of what you've started!
Yes it 'only' produces water and salt, but damn... to end the painless grind (as stuff doesn't replenish in the world yet), its a lifesaver.
It would have been underwhelming if it was smaller. It has a nice big size.
Agreed. Built into the progression it becomes a natural addition at some point. Having played games that grow into nothing but endless grinding, I appreciate the foresight. As tasks grow, we need to be able to automate to some degree.
Some additional thoughts for the water filtration machine:
- it shouldn't be placable above water level [bug]
- it's advanced tech that allows you to get plenty of water and therefore mid-game suited
- needs better components and blueprints (titanium,glass,chip,chemicals)
- is the best machine to produce chemical ideal water for all purposes and machinery (including nuclear reactors)
- should be able to pipe its output, so other devices can get input via pipeline
- two seperate and bigger output containers for salt and water and 1 container for input resources (bleach?)
It takes away the need to hunt for food and water, but it should consume lots of energy and force you to hunt for energy resources.
The energy system might have to be rebalanced for survival needs:
- self sustaining reactors (solar panels and thermal reactors) should cost more and provide less
- other reactors should have plenty resource storage to allow time for harvesting and relaxing
- all machinery should degrade on usage until failure and then have to be either repaired or rebuild
- no energy free use of hand tools like the builder
- no free air in bases underwater
The base model would start out slow but not give enough water for the player to be self sufficient - so could be early game. Upgrading to more efficient models would produce more.
I also like the idea of the base model also producing some poisonous/bad byproducts that you would have to dispose of safely (or they would pollute the water).
Think about it: Aurora is a terraforming/colonization ship en route to an ocean planet that would naturally have little to no freshwater sources. Therefore, water filtration devices would be the first priority in the colonization process, i.e. the devices and the technology to fabricate them would be readily available.
Also keep in mind that the water filtration machine is simply a sci-fi distillery, evaporating and consensing water to separate salt. In fact, it consumes too much power in my opinion, even for today's standards. Mankind has been distilling water since antiquity; the process runs itself, energy (heating the water) only accelerates it.
An on/off switch?? Look, the water filtration machine makes no sense, especially given Obraxis' comments regarding its intended game function -- reducing the grind aspect of water collection after the opening game. The fabricator churns out water by the gallon by extracting it out of bladderfish or processing sea-water with bleach, and it does this practically instantly, for almost no energy. The filtration device would never survive in a scenario that wasn't an arbitrary game plot device (and a nonsense one, to boot!). When I got one, it took a whole game day and all of the energy of my entire base to trickle out two measly bottles of water. If I hadn't had marblemellons handy I would have died of thirst waiting for this machine to drip out a single bottle of water. Ridiculous. Come on, Guys, you can do better than this. This thing is way too nerfed. It takes forever to find the blueprints and is expensive to build, requiring you to go get aerogel. OK, I can live with that. It's a nice challenge, but it doesn't live up to its intended function once you build the damned thing. Disappointing, is putting it mildly. It is easier to just keep scrounging for salt and giant tube coral, except that the giant tube corals are sparse in the later parts of the game scenario.
This machine makes no sense, either from a game perspective or from a non-contradictory in-game rationale. Hell, it would have just made more sense to give the fabricator an upgrade and let it churn out these big gulp bottles of water for way less energy and base-space. This item is practically a waste, as implemented, in terms of energy requirements, resource requirements, and even base space. I could see some point, if the machine took a while to produce salt blocks, but was much faster (and cheaper in energy!) in turning out water, but really, even if the player is going to build a deep base, it would almost make more sense to just stock up on bleach and make disinfected water at a drastically lower cost. Nonsense. The only thing this machine really changes is that it gives you bigger water bottles that still only take up one inventory slot. That's it, and that isn't even all that great an improvement when you consider the ridiculous amount of time and energy it will take to get that improvement. It makes no sense that this thing works as slowly as it does and for as much energy as it hogs.
If you can´t be bothered adding a few solar panels or a bio-reactor, then simply keep hunting bladderfish! Good luck...