MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2015
Thanks to @BeigeAlert 's material swapping tool for models I have started work with making de-saturated/dirty/semi-rusted versions of a lot of the clean props and textures I'm using in mineral so that I can keep a consistent theme through the level without sacrificing my vision of having some parts of the level feel older than the rest. Here's two WIP shots of the descent wallmods09 set transformed. All the other materials used in here(yes I switched every single material and most props in Transport and Storage so far) have had a layer of dirt applied to them but it's too weak at the moment.
And a clean shot for comparison:
Most of the "new" materials and models have already been created but they still need a lot of work before I can be satisfied. It's a start however and over the next month/s I'll be doing more updates around the level with the dirty versions.
Other than that I have fixed a few smaller gameplay related issues and there will be a new release some time this week.
I just had a very amusing game on mineral. There was not very many regulars, or people who have played mineral on the server. The map got voted in 4/6 votes out of a 16 players. People were complaining the map was going to be terrible, that the map was too big, that the map was only playable in a 12v12. The game turned out very well. Marines dominated early game, but aliens had a bit of a comeback and won. I asked and no one could tell me that the game was bad. They still said it was too big though.
Edit: I did say it worked very well in 6v6 comp games. I was met with disagreement and disbelief.
People get the impression it is big. But it's smaller than Biodome, Decent. It's roughly the same size as Tram I'd say without the over connectivity. When you play the map it doesn't feel big at all imo, there is a good balance in running times between RTs areas and between choke points.
I think every new player on mineral will think it's big. Next time remind them it's played in the ensl comp league, so 6v6 and it works more than okay I'm glad people still enjoyed it after all
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2015
In response to your edit Nordic, I love it when people disagree about things they know nothing about(#sarcasm). Meaning I'm pretty sure most of the pub players in NS2 do not pay attention to the NSL at all.
Back to topic. The dirty material upgrades are going faster than expected and I now have 9 trims and 7 wall materials to give dirt and a little bit of rust to. I managed to do all the props and most floor/ceiling materials I'm using yesterday. Hope I can have it ready with all the new materials by Sunday.
Other than that the mod size has obviously increased quite a bit and at the moment(before all materials are ready, but their files exist) lands at 134MB. By the end of Mineral's production we will probably be looking at a mod size of around 150-160MB, so I would strongly suggest that people who know they will be playing mineral in the future subscribe to the mod to avoid long wait times when joining servers. I'm not sure how the steam workshop handles files so maybe it will only be a one time download of all the "new" materials and props. If anyone has any insight about that, I would love to hear it.
Edit: I did say it worked very well in 6v6 comp games. I was met with disagreement and disbelief.
I didn't see this.. Well what can I say ? People don't believe something that is true, and could be verified just by watching the nsl league when mineral is played. I know the understanding of the game is different in comp and some pubs, but if it works for 6v6, it will surely be enough for more players. Do people in pubs calculate running times ? most of them don't I imagine. But if they did they would realize it's not big at all.
EDIT : just played on the thirsty onos, asked for feedback : it ranged from I like it to I love it. No one voiced negative comments when I asked
My comment earlier was what I thought a humorous one. They thought all these things about mineral, but they were not just wrong, they were proven wrong by the game we played. I think this also shows how far the map has come.
Sadly it will always download the full mod. You could split it into two mods of which only one gets updated, but this also has two issues: First timers will still have to load it and putting it on a server is more of a hassle.
In response to your edit Nordic, I love it when people disagree about things they know nothing about(#sarcasm). Meaning I'm pretty sure most of the pub players in NS2 do not pay attention to the NSL at all.
Back to topic. The dirty material upgrades are going faster than expected and I now have 9 trims and 7 wall materials to give dirt and a little bit of rust to. I managed to do all the props and most floor/ceiling materials I'm using yesterday. Hope I can have it ready with all the new materials by Sunday.
Other than that the mod size has obviously increased quite a bit and at the moment(before all materials are ready, but their files exist) lands at 134MB. By the end of Mineral's production we will probably be looking at a mod size of around 150-160MB, so I would strongly suggest that people who know they will be playing mineral in the future subscribe to the mod to avoid long wait times when joining servers. I'm not sure how the steam workshop handles files so maybe it will only be a one time download of all the "new" materials and props. If anyone has any insight about that, I would love to hear it.
Oooh, isn't that getting close to the mod size limit? I don't recall off the top of my head what that is.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
You can always split your map assets up into a couple of mods.
Also, keep in mind that 100mb limit is after being zipped by steam. To check what size you'll be at, just .zip up your output folder, see what that's at.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
There is a new build out but it's completely broken. Currently trying to fix it. As it seems, the steam workshop "required items" thing isn't working correctly and the game fails to load the required mod with the "new" props and materials. What am I missing? Please help, anyone!
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2015
Ok so I tested with the asset pack mod subscribed and then at least all the materials and models show up, but there is something seriously wrong with collision on any model I sent through the "Model Material Swapper" tool. Not sure why that's happening because they were working perfectly with collision and all on my local build.
EDIT: reverted back to previous version. screw mod dependencies.
Ok so I tested with the asset pack mod subscribed and then at least all the materials and models show up, but there is something seriously wrong with collision on any model I sent through the "Model Material Swapper" tool. Not sure why that's happening because they were working perfectly with collision and all on my local build.
EDIT: reverted back to previous version. screw mod dependencies.
Hmm... no reason that should be happening because of the material swapper itself. I've just double checked and it's working properly. It doesn't modify any of the collision-related chunks at all. Are you sure you replaced the models properly in the editor?
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
It wasn't because of the swapper. The models work fine. Not sure why it was happening. I tested with a separate mod including all the necessary files in it and it didn't come close to exceeding the mod size limit. I'll release a proper update tomorrow some time with everything included with the map mod and not try to have the map mod force a download of an extra asset mod. Unless someone can explain to me how it's done, because just setting up a "required item" in steam workshop is not working.
It wasn't because of the swapper. The models work fine. Not sure why it was happening. I tested with a separate mod including all the necessary files in it and it didn't come close to exceeding the mod size limit. I'll release a proper update tomorrow some time with everything included with the map mod and not try to have the map mod force a download of an extra asset mod. Unless someone can explain to me how it's done, because just setting up a "required item" in steam workshop is not working.
Steamworks workshop mod dependencies are quiet new and by no way supported by NS2. If you release an asset pack you have to make sure that the server admins add it also to their map cycle.
I would suggest to re-release the map and map assets as new mods to make sure all admins are aware of the dependency.
Just .zip up your "output" folder, and see how big it is. If it's over 100MB, then you'll have to put it in a second mod, otherwise don't worry about it for now.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Yeah the zipped output right now is a bit less than 50MB so I guess I'm fine for some time. I doubt I'll be adding any more custom stuff to it, and if I do it won't be a lot. So unless the map size itself increases by 140MB it's all good.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
New version of Mineral, B3.70, is out on the workshop.
Change log:
Moved Generators power node back to its previous location in the west part of the room.
Changed lighting in several places, preparing for a more consistent lighting across certain areas of the level.
Fixed potential stuck spots behind the hive in Drill Site. There may be more of them but I haven't found them yet,
Changed the style in Transport and Storage with a new set of dirtied models and materials from the Biodome and Descent art sets that are being used in the clean parts of the map.
Probably something else that I forgot.
List of models and materials with added dirt and/or some rust:
Models:
Descent_Wallmods_09 Set
Descent_Wallmods_01 Set
Descent_Doorway_01 Set(glass_frame and _var)
descent_security_supports_bottom_str_01
descent_baypillar_01_panel2
descent_girder_01_tile/tile_half
descent_stairs_02 Set(Except the curved versions)
Materials:
Ceilings/Floors:
biodome_floor_03
biodome_floor_04a/b
biodome_floor_07_dark
descent_floor_04 a/b
descent_ceiling02/03
tram_floor_clean_01
Trims:
biodome_trim_02a
biodome_trim_04a
caged_trim_01
descent_trim_04
descent_trim_05
descent_trim_06
descent_trim_07
descent_trim_12a
descent_trim_14
Walls:
biodome_wall_06 a/b
biodome_wall_07a
descent_wall_10
descent_wall_11
descent_wall_12
veil_wall_01_b
If it's interesting to people I can prepare a separate pack mod for you guys to download. Otherwise feel free to use these models as you wish, as they are still obviously the property of UWE. Just remember to give me credit for the dirty versions. Also, they aren't 100% complete yet. Meaning that any changes done to them will be done in relation to what is needed for Mineral.
So an issue I keep seeing lately, that could be l2p, but so far has proved not very intuitive. So if you have drill hive, and you are going north from pump control into pump station you naturally want to take a left. You find a big wall though. Most life forms can get through there, but it slows them down.
In my observations this is becoming a death trap for higher life forms. I have seen many gorges turn left trying to run from a marine, only to die as they try to turn around. I saw one lerk fly into the wall, and die as he desperately flailed around trying to find an exit. A fade, who was going to probably die anyways he was so low, turned that way and died. If he had turned right he would of had a chance.
Again this could be just be a learning the map problem, as I personally know to avoid it. There is a reasonable argument for making a map as intuitive as possible though. In my opinion it is a minor issue, but enough that I thought it needed said.
That would probably make it better. Here is a quickly made gif showing the area. The monitors on the left make the left have more light, making it even more natural to go left. This is with shadows off.
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Similar to what Nordic said I'm not keen on the path/dead end on the left, still. It seems like a hinderance to movement for marines, and an annoyance for the aliens. Lighting is really important for player pathing. Ironhorse lectures me on it quite a bit and there's definitely truth in it, lighting doors that you can't access, and I'll extend that logic to paths you can't go.
I'd suggest Monitors on the right, by the pumps might be a good idea, and at the far end of the hallway on the right as well. This would not only lead the player but better accentuate the room and strengthen one's depth perception.
You can also use hanging lamps with the spotlight tool to produce really visible paths. Similar to this, with the lights at a much smaller angle, creating areas of darkness which are further apart, and with much greater contrast.
I think Tram does this in the Tunnel sections, but has ambient lights which are a slightly darker color than the spotlights in question, leading to the room having that contrast drowned out.
Comments
And a clean shot for comparison:
Most of the "new" materials and models have already been created but they still need a lot of work before I can be satisfied. It's a start however and over the next month/s I'll be doing more updates around the level with the dirty versions.
Other than that I have fixed a few smaller gameplay related issues and there will be a new release some time this week.
Edit: I did say it worked very well in 6v6 comp games. I was met with disagreement and disbelief.
I think every new player on mineral will think it's big. Next time remind them it's played in the ensl comp league, so 6v6 and it works more than okay
Back to topic. The dirty material upgrades are going faster than expected and I now have 9 trims and 7 wall materials to give dirt and a little bit of rust to. I managed to do all the props and most floor/ceiling materials I'm using yesterday. Hope I can have it ready with all the new materials by Sunday.
Other than that the mod size has obviously increased quite a bit and at the moment(before all materials are ready, but their files exist) lands at 134MB. By the end of Mineral's production we will probably be looking at a mod size of around 150-160MB, so I would strongly suggest that people who know they will be playing mineral in the future subscribe to the mod to avoid long wait times when joining servers. I'm not sure how the steam workshop handles files so maybe it will only be a one time download of all the "new" materials and props. If anyone has any insight about that, I would love to hear it.
EDIT : just played on the thirsty onos, asked for feedback : it ranged from I like it to I love it. No one voiced negative comments when I asked
Oooh, isn't that getting close to the mod size limit? I don't recall off the top of my head what that is.
EDIT: it's 100mb, thanks nordic, beat ya to it!
Also, keep in mind that 100mb limit is after being zipped by steam. To check what size you'll be at, just .zip up your output folder, see what that's at.
Compressed.
ORA is 120Mb uncompressed and 51Mb compressed on steam workshop.
Thanks for the heads up guys, I had no idea there were so low limits.
Edit: Yeah so I'll be putting out a Mineral asset pack together with the next update and it should all be fine.
EDIT: reverted back to previous version. screw mod dependencies.
Hmm... no reason that should be happening because of the material swapper itself. I've just double checked and it's working properly. It doesn't modify any of the collision-related chunks at all. Are you sure you replaced the models properly in the editor?
Steamworks workshop mod dependencies are quiet new and by no way supported by NS2. If you release an asset pack you have to make sure that the server admins add it also to their map cycle.
I would suggest to re-release the map and map assets as new mods to make sure all admins are aware of the dependency.
Damn straight.
Just .zip up your "output" folder, and see how big it is. If it's over 100MB, then you'll have to put it in a second mod, otherwise don't worry about it for now.
Change log:
List of models and materials with added dirt and/or some rust:
Materials:
Ceilings/Floors:
Trims:
Walls:
Some screenshots of the "new" assets in game:
In my observations this is becoming a death trap for higher life forms. I have seen many gorges turn left trying to run from a marine, only to die as they try to turn around. I saw one lerk fly into the wall, and die as he desperately flailed around trying to find an exit. A fade, who was going to probably die anyways he was so low, turned that way and died. If he had turned right he would of had a chance.
Again this could be just be a learning the map problem, as I personally know to avoid it. There is a reasonable argument for making a map as intuitive as possible though. In my opinion it is a minor issue, but enough that I thought it needed said.
I'd suggest Monitors on the right, by the pumps might be a good idea, and at the far end of the hallway on the right as well. This would not only lead the player but better accentuate the room and strengthen one's depth perception.
You can also use hanging lamps with the spotlight tool to produce really visible paths. Similar to this, with the lights at a much smaller angle, creating areas of darkness which are further apart, and with much greater contrast.
I think Tram does this in the Tunnel sections, but has ambient lights which are a slightly darker color than the spotlights in question, leading to the room having that contrast drowned out.