So... it all comes down to performance, and some UI.
Wait, are you actually implying that bad performance is a non issue and people are making a big deal out of it? Because if you are, it would be incredibly dumb on your part...
Performance, sure, but that's just a matter of time and optimization. The meat of the game, the mechanics that are constantly changed back and forth, are what's going to matter once its running smooth again. I only say that so nonchalantly because UWE has already demonstrated their ability to respond to and address performance issues. I'm not worried in that department.
But the changes... If it ends up with a more balanced game, a better game, I'm sure we'd all be willing to stick with it. But learning a lot of the specifics takes time, especially in the arena of FPS games. NS2 is no different, and for a lot of the mid-level players like myself, it requires a time commitment that's constantly being fought over by a billion other games. When I spend a lot of time getting really good at a certain lifeform, or getting my footwork and evasion down as a marine, it's kind of difficult to just kiss all that goodbye on the back of some sprawling, game-changing patch, especially given how many freakishly good players are out there. If you love this game and want to play it seriously, maybe competitively, you'll sink time into it. Each patch just gives another 'here we go again' moment when you're figuring out whats changed.
The speed at which the patches are released, and how much they change, is another factor. I mean, this isn't CS where you change 1 or 2 things and that's that. Even the smallest change in NS2 can effect balance in a big way.
To end this mini wall of text, I think some players (including myself) are worried that some changes are unnecessary. I mean, with a game that has so many variables to consider, you'd think that such sweeping changes would be disastrous. We've all seen much simpler games tanked by a bad patch or bad bunch of changes, and that's usually not changing many aspects of both teams at one go, month after month.
Anyone who has been gaming for awhile knows how scary patches can be, especially for games that you've fallen in love with. I still miss pre 250 NS2, honestly, but see the Aliens getting further and further from that original style that many loved.
I second all who've said "what's the goal here, UWE?" They need to define it, and then stick with it until it works. Most of this, arguably, is on the Alien side, being more difficult to balance.
But let me throw a 'great job' in there, because the team deserves it ten fold and I'm new to the forums (been Lerking for awhile.) Keep up the hard work!!!
No, I'm not.
I'm only trying to find out if there is more behind it.
Fair enough. Also, there is.
In that case let me give you some insight into why some people are upset.
Imagine, if you will, that you wanted buy a tomato. You saw this tomato in a catalog, it said the tomato would be nice, ripe and ready to eat. So you get to the store, pay up front and are then told that there was a mistake in the catalog and the tomato isn't there yet. In fact, it turns out that they only just planted the seeds. So you wait and wait, and you finally get told that your tomato has arrived. Unfortunately, you also get informed that your tomato isn't ripe yet. So after some more waiting, you finally get your tomato. You make your way to the checkout, but once you get there it turns out that somewhere along the way your tomato has turned into a banana. Now, some people like bananas, some people don't. But when the store manager makes you take a bite just to see weather its good for consumption, because he suspects it might be rotten, you may end up a little upset.
I booted up ns2 for the first time since all these recent updates came out last night and loaded into biodome. I was met with extremely hitchy studdering for a few minutes untill I walked around the map and things started to smooth out. I was running between 60-140 fps running around biodome most of the time and even then was met with large random hitches, bad hitreg on skulk bites and overall unsmooth gameplay (at 60-140 fps!!!).
Server performance gotten especially bad since build 251 or 252.
I enjoy the constant changes. It keeps the game new and refreshing. I don't see how people can play basically the same game of e.g. CS, et. al. for 5 years straight.
Don't like performance problems, but definitely don't think the current situation is that bad. Crashes and hitching are the most annoying, and those usually get fixed in a few days or a week...so I am not worried about that.
There's a certain kind of disregard for some 'rights' of a paying customer in the way UWE runs their business. This time they threw a very incomplete version of the game to the live version to force a hasty beta test with involuntary testers. Previously we've had misleading release dates, sys reqs and PR talk. Some highly capable community contributors have ended up somewhat wasting their time because of misleading information and so on.
I can understand the business viewpoint of most of the stuff, but it's not nice nevertheless and makes me feel a bit uneasy whenever someone talks like it has been all sunshine and happiness to follow through the development.
It all starts from spring 2009 preorders and NS1 community, so probably things look very different if you've only been here since Gorgeous.
The fact that this game is still being supported is great! What more could you ask for!?
Free content! The game is always evolving! Sometimes its cool, sometimes its not or sometimes you just gotta adapt and move on.
It's natural selection ; )
'Sometimes you need to adapt and move on' isn't exactly a healthy way to describe a developer-customer relation.
The basic foundation of all this is still the simple business where they get the money and we get the product. That has to be respected at all times.
Possible extra content, community support and all such relations are awesome, but they are still just extra filling. Everything still stands on top of that basic interaction of purchasing a product. Once the basics are working, we can start talking about how awesome the rest of the stuff may or may not be.
First time I've played NS since the first months of release so no idea if the balance is good, but the com UI lags and stutters now if you click the map to jump to a room instead of scrolling the screen. Very annoying jumping into a fight as a Com and you have you wait 1/2 seconds before structures and units render. I currently run an I7 3770 with a GTX 680.
Beyond that I've played 2-3 games on different servers as a regular marine - all the servers were noticeably laggy. Did something happen to the servers or just bad luck?
It's astonishing how so many people don't realize that performance/UI/netcode is where most of the quality in FPS games comes from
when you are making a complex extremely skill-based game that isn't casual friendly, why would you try to make your money off casuals who are the only people who are fine with crappy performance/UI/netcode?
the complete disconnect between UWE priorities and the type of audience that their game appeals to is where the frustration comes from in pretty much everything that happens to this game
I've never been upset towards UWE like I was towards Blizzard. Waited 10+ years for Diablo 3, pre-ordered it as soon as I could, and after the "release date", the game was unplayable for almost two days while server and connectivity issues were figured out.
It's been almost a year already. Blizzard fixed their issues within 2 days. It's been more than 200 days and still UWE haven't fixed their main issue, the main reason why player numbers plummeted after initial release, and in fact, things are getting worse, as attested to by comments on this thread.
Your time in the game means nothing.
Your involvement in the community means nothing.
You don't not get to dictate the games development and shouldn't.
UWE are the game developers, not you.
If you don't like any of these statements, feel free to go else where. Just please stop whining! It's getting on the nerves of people who want to enjoy all this new stuff that UWE has put a lot of work into creating for us, you ungrateful mewling quims!
Er what? When we pay for a completed product, we have a right to a functioning product. People will complain as long as that condition is not met, and that is fully within their rights. Stop sucking up, and stop eroding our consumer rights and protections. The matter is even more insulting to us paying customers because there is no return option for shoddy merchandise. We will go elsewhere when we can get our money back. Until then, we will exercise our rights to expression and speech. YOU go elsewhere if you don't like to see it.
What if i told you... That MAYBE it is not UWE's fault ALL the time. MAYBE some hardware or software upgrades of your OWN is required. Because frankly? I do not have these so called performance issues everyone is talking about. I read alot about people who say their FPS sucks and frankly... Get a job... Earn money and then buy and freshen up your hardware and while you are at it, freshen up your drivers and software. You can find good parts for good prices all around the web.
Performance is getting worse with each update. Hardware has nothing to do with that, does it? Furthermore, expecting a decent level of performance on any hardware setup that can run other new games at high-ultra, both indie and AAA, released AFTER NS2, is a reasonable expectation. What if I told YOU, that MAYBE not EVERYONE is so devoid of responsibilities and maturity that they would either need or want to spend inordinate sums of hard earned money to obtain a mere semblance of smoothness on a rubbishly optimized game, indeed, on a childish form of entertainment which in essence is a 21st century version of an unrefined piece of metal which dazzled and inspired awe in a primitive neanderthal. And since you are the one busy making comments on a website at this hour, it is clearly YOU that obviously needs a job, as well as a life. YOU may not have any dignity, but please don't assume the rest of us are obsequious cowards like you.
Or we are just not in the same timezone. But i guess that went right past your head. Anyway in the end, your problem, not mine. If your are going to resolve to flaming me and calling me a coward without even knowing me, well lets just stop right there.
Let me summarize: Everybody is fine with updates, as long as they add stuff and don't take too much of the game. But UWE takes too much for what it adds?
As with the past versions, this engine loves SLI and I don't see any fps degradation (other than the fact I have to still use DX9, DX11 disables my SLI). I still roll with 130 fps almost entirely with GTX 670 4gb SLI, just as I always have. I have seen zero of this loss of fps. If I use 1 670, I see almost half the fps as when using the SLI, so this engine really loves the SLI, as much as Crysis 3 does ( 98 % usage across both cards, powered by a 5 ghz 2600k i7)
It lags so hard, I have no incentive to play NS right now.
There was one build where they had exactly same performance problem. Culprit was found and it was fixed within 2 days. I wasn't playing that build for there 2 days.
Let me summarize: Everybody is fine with updates, as long as they add stuff and don't take too much of the game. But UWE takes too much for what it adds?
I can understand that.
let me summarize my interaction with this bunch of patches.
new stuff... yay
performance is crap... booo
alien tech tree changed, wait...
skulk upgrades... where are they?... wtf? what's it doing on a whip?
drifter 8 res... wait what? but that's as much as a harvester.
hop out of hive... where the fuck is all my res? wtf? NOOOOO!!! Gorgemander.
toggle alien vision... ARGGHH i can't seeeeee.
we like new stuff, but they haven't really justified changing alien vision and haven't really gotten the two modes in a acceptable state for more experienced play.
the performance was shit right out of the gates, bugs came out that should have been caught first thing. And from the timing and comments it appears they used their normal audience as playtesters for a bad build to prepare for a PR blitz a day or two later. that's dirty pool.
not even going to touch how much they nerfed aliens.
they are pretty damn heavyhanded when it comes to balance.
Your time in the game means nothing.
Your involvement in the community means nothing.
You don't not get to dictate the games development and shouldn't.
UWE are the game developers, not you.
If you don't like any of these statements, feel free to go else where. Just please stop whining! It's getting on the nerves of people who want to enjoy all this new stuff that UWE has put a lot of work into creating for us, you ungrateful mewling quims!
Er what? When we pay for a completed product, we have a right to a functioning product. People will complain as long as that condition is not met, and that is fully within their rights. Stop sucking up, and stop eroding our consumer rights and protections. The matter is even more insulting to us paying customers because there is no return option for shoddy merchandise. We will go elsewhere when we can get our money back. Until then, we will exercise our rights to expression and speech. YOU go elsewhere if you don't like to see it.
What if i told you... That MAYBE it is not UWE's fault ALL the time. MAYBE some hardware or software upgrades of your OWN is required. Because frankly? I do not have these so called performance issues everyone is talking about. I read alot about people who say their FPS sucks and frankly... Get a job... Earn money and then buy and freshen up your hardware and while you are at it, freshen up your drivers and software. You can find good parts for good prices all around the web.
@ForlornHope the title of the thread is why is everyone upset. I'd be pretty surprised if that didnt entail some "whining"
@Chimichanga, the reason this is frustrating right now is because I DIIIID. Black friday new egg sales, upgraded graphics card and power supply SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY NS2. And it had been working (mostly) wonderfully since then. Now I can not play at all. So yes, I'm annoyed to see all these fancy new skins and upheaval of alien gameplay (again) at the cost of not being able to play at all. Shouldn't have to turn settings all the way down again to try to squeak out some function when I've paid for equipment that should be able to handle it and when it had been handling it fine for 8 months prior, especially since luajt.
I know they're working on it, but 254 yielded no improvement for me. Just hope that these bugs are fixed sooner rather than later, if at all.
Let me summarize: Everybody is fine with updates, as long as they add stuff and don't take too much of the game. But UWE takes too much for what it adds?
I can understand that.
Don't try to summarize the issue in two words. Even my post that did not add arguments or details was several lines long.
You could try to say that they are changing the game rather than improving it, but that would not be completely true nor exhaustive.
Many things are very poorly handled from UWE side. A Biodome play tester said that they tested it with the old version for most of the time, and almost not with Reinforced/252, so that means potentially big flaws. In general, UWE added unecessary/unneeded content rather than useful improvements like performance or balance (they did try to address that, but the fact is the game is less fun as of now and it's not sure it's more balanced ; that's very poor balancing in any ways).
You also said that the upsetting comed down to performance and UI, but if you'd read the thread you'd have seen way more reason (exept for alien vision, there's no problem with the UI).
the immediate upset comes from the immediate concerns. being able to play at all at an acceptable level is the most immediate concern for any player. completely new balance will be tested and questioned when people can actually get through a match and get a couple dozen games under their belt.
Your time in the game means nothing.
Your involvement in the community means nothing.
You don't not get to dictate the games development and shouldn't.
UWE are the game developers, not you.
If you don't like any of these statements, feel free to go else where. Just please stop whining! It's getting on the nerves of people who want to enjoy all this new stuff that UWE has put a lot of work into creating for us, you ungrateful mewling quims!
Er what? When we pay for a completed product, we have a right to a functioning product. People will complain as long as that condition is not met, and that is fully within their rights. Stop sucking up, and stop eroding our consumer rights and protections. The matter is even more insulting to us paying customers because there is no return option for shoddy merchandise. We will go elsewhere when we can get our money back. Until then, we will exercise our rights to expression and speech. YOU go elsewhere if you don't like to see it.
What if i told you... That MAYBE it is not UWE's fault ALL the time. MAYBE some hardware or software upgrades of your OWN is required. Because frankly? I do not have these so called performance issues everyone is talking about. I read alot about people who say their FPS sucks and frankly... Get a job... Earn money and then buy and freshen up your hardware and while you are at it, freshen up your drivers and software. You can find good parts for good prices all around the web.
@ForlornHope the title of the thread is why is everyone upset. I'd be pretty surprised if that didnt entail some "whining"
@Chimichanga, the reason this is frustrating right now is because I DIIIID. Black friday new egg sales, upgraded graphics card and power supply SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY NS2. And it had been working (mostly) wonderfully since then. Now I can not play at all. So yes, I'm annoyed to see all these fancy new skins and upheaval of alien gameplay (again) at the cost of not being able to play at all. Shouldn't have to turn settings all the way down again to try to squeak out some function when I've paid for equipment that should be able to handle it and when it had been handling it fine for 8 months prior, especially since luajt.
I know they're working on it, but 254 yielded no improvement for me. Just hope that these bugs are fixed sooner rather than later, if at all.
Intel Core i5-3570K 3,4 Ghz
ASUS GeForce GTX 670 2GB DirectCU II
16Gigs of ram
That is the primary specs of my computer, nothing super about it, nothing to expensive. So i wonder, how come the game runs at 60 FPS in the heat of battle and over 80 FPS all other times for me? When apperently it does not for others. Software issues? Updated Drivers. Something but i had no issues yesterday at all.
Intel Core i5-3570K 3,4 Ghz
ASUS GeForce GTX 670 2GB DirectCU II
16Gigs of ram
That is the primary specs of my computer, nothing super about it, nothing to expensive. So i wonder, how come the game runs at 60 FPS in the heat of battle and over 80 FPS all other times for me? When apperently it does not for others. Software issues? Updated Drivers. Something but i had no issues yesterday at all.
1) it's not just about average framerate, but the variance between framertimes and jerkiness / stuttering / input lag
2) 60 FPS is nothing great, even if it's a smooth 60 (which NS2 is not)
3) You have a relatively high-end system and are getting pretty bad performance (you can turn down some graphics settings... we're fine doing that too. but you can't say "use less CPU")
4) Servers cannot handle this game, which is another huge cause of performance problems
NS2 has extremely hard to hit enemies. The performance demands are a lot higher than your average FPS
My big gripes are the control lag, server loopiness, and the change to alien vision, specifically the 'always on nature' of the overly bright and sharp orange outlines. Its a general distraction and detracts from the atmosphere of the game.
The very idea that they would enter into a patch situation where massive changes are made, then not have the funds to 'fix' it without an infusion is unbelievable.
I also agree with Biz, as I agree that there has been a neglect of the more foundational items. I also agree that the req specs shouldn't radically change without a new product.
I'm not upset, I just can't play at the moment due to framerate issues (went from 40 to 25 in hiverooms and intense situations). It's just a bad patch, things like that happen in software development...
Rock on UWE!
Intel Core i5-3570K 3,4 Ghz
ASUS GeForce GTX 670 2GB DirectCU II
16Gigs of ram
That is the primary specs of my computer, nothing super about it, nothing to expensive. So i wonder, how come the game runs at 60 FPS in the heat of battle and over 80 FPS all other times for me? When apperently it does not for others. Software issues? Updated Drivers. Something but i had no issues yesterday at all.
intel runnin 3.1 GHz, EVGA geforce gtx 550 ti 2gb, 4 gb ram, wasnt a problem before-hand. Usually getting around 74 fps w/ everything on high except ambient occlusion (which i turn off) and bloom (also off), rarely get bottle-necking. I just had a driver update in like April I think, but I'll check again. I wouldnt even mind the stuttery performance, my problem is that it doesn't perform at all atm. Cant even get sandbox to run for more than a few minutes. Obviously you see my frustration, I'd like to be out there shooting/biting you all to bits right now. Instead I'm waiting for follow up on my tech support post or a hot fix, which does not appear to be coming before the weekend. So I'm S.O.L. for now.
Been playin since b 237, and throughout all new build releases, I'd seen in the forums people having the ol "game won't run since patch" problem. Had always been glad to have dodged those bullets, but it finally got me!
Dont get me wrong, I love NS, and understand they're doing everything they can do being an indie company. Just really wanna bite things now...
Compare this to TF2. 2007 TF2 is quite different from 2013 TF2. But Valve made the changes incrementally over 6 long years so that even the biggest patches only changed maybe three dozen things, most of which were map exploits and bugs.
If UWE had simply moved slower and tested more, they wouldn't have the same kind of outrage. How many significant changes has the shotgun in NS2 gone though? At least 4. The rocket launcher from TF2 has seen 1 major change.
Compare this to TF2. 2007 TF2 is quite different from 2013 TF2. But Valve made the changes incrementally over 6 long years so that even the biggest patches only changed maybe three dozen things, most of which were map exploits and bugs.
If UWE had simply moved slower and tested more, they wouldn't have the same kind of outrage. How many significant changes has the shotgun in NS2 gone though? At least 4. The rocket launcher from TF2 has seen 1 major change.
Very much agree with this.
Linux support should have been on a separate patch and had a market campaign specifically for it. Not only would this have gotten more exposure about the Linux support, but UWE also would have been able to specifically focus on all the issues that it brought with it rather than trying to deal with all the other issues that popped up with the other changes.
No, I'm not.
I'm only trying to find out if there is more behind it.
Fair enough. Also, there is.
In that case let me give you some insight into why some people are upset.
Imagine, if you will, that you wanted buy a tomato. You saw this tomato in a catalog, it said the tomato would be nice, ripe and ready to eat. So you get to the store, pay up front and are then told that there was a mistake in the catalog and the tomato isn't there yet. In fact, it turns out that they only just planted the seeds. So you wait and wait, and you finally get told that your tomato has arrived. Unfortunately, you also get informed that your tomato isn't ripe yet. So after some more waiting, you finally get your tomato. You make your way to the checkout, but once you get there it turns out that somewhere along the way your tomato has turned into a banana. Now, some people like bananas, some people don't. But when the store manager makes you take a bite just to see weather its good for consumption, because he suspects it might be rotten, you may end up a little upset.
Comments
I'm only trying to find out if there is more behind it.
But the changes... If it ends up with a more balanced game, a better game, I'm sure we'd all be willing to stick with it. But learning a lot of the specifics takes time, especially in the arena of FPS games. NS2 is no different, and for a lot of the mid-level players like myself, it requires a time commitment that's constantly being fought over by a billion other games. When I spend a lot of time getting really good at a certain lifeform, or getting my footwork and evasion down as a marine, it's kind of difficult to just kiss all that goodbye on the back of some sprawling, game-changing patch, especially given how many freakishly good players are out there. If you love this game and want to play it seriously, maybe competitively, you'll sink time into it. Each patch just gives another 'here we go again' moment when you're figuring out whats changed.
The speed at which the patches are released, and how much they change, is another factor. I mean, this isn't CS where you change 1 or 2 things and that's that. Even the smallest change in NS2 can effect balance in a big way.
To end this mini wall of text, I think some players (including myself) are worried that some changes are unnecessary. I mean, with a game that has so many variables to consider, you'd think that such sweeping changes would be disastrous. We've all seen much simpler games tanked by a bad patch or bad bunch of changes, and that's usually not changing many aspects of both teams at one go, month after month.
Anyone who has been gaming for awhile knows how scary patches can be, especially for games that you've fallen in love with. I still miss pre 250 NS2, honestly, but see the Aliens getting further and further from that original style that many loved.
I second all who've said "what's the goal here, UWE?" They need to define it, and then stick with it until it works. Most of this, arguably, is on the Alien side, being more difficult to balance.
But let me throw a 'great job' in there, because the team deserves it ten fold and I'm new to the forums (been Lerking for awhile.) Keep up the hard work!!!
Fair enough. Also, there is.
In that case let me give you some insight into why some people are upset.
Imagine, if you will, that you wanted buy a tomato. You saw this tomato in a catalog, it said the tomato would be nice, ripe and ready to eat. So you get to the store, pay up front and are then told that there was a mistake in the catalog and the tomato isn't there yet. In fact, it turns out that they only just planted the seeds. So you wait and wait, and you finally get told that your tomato has arrived. Unfortunately, you also get informed that your tomato isn't ripe yet. So after some more waiting, you finally get your tomato. You make your way to the checkout, but once you get there it turns out that somewhere along the way your tomato has turned into a banana. Now, some people like bananas, some people don't. But when the store manager makes you take a bite just to see weather its good for consumption, because he suspects it might be rotten, you may end up a little upset.
Performance fookup was the icing on rhe cake really.
Server performance gotten especially bad since build 251 or 252.
Don't like performance problems, but definitely don't think the current situation is that bad. Crashes and hitching are the most annoying, and those usually get fixed in a few days or a week...so I am not worried about that.
'Sometimes you need to adapt and move on' isn't exactly a healthy way to describe a developer-customer relation.
The basic foundation of all this is still the simple business where they get the money and we get the product. That has to be respected at all times.
Possible extra content, community support and all such relations are awesome, but they are still just extra filling. Everything still stands on top of that basic interaction of purchasing a product. Once the basics are working, we can start talking about how awesome the rest of the stuff may or may not be.
Beyond that I've played 2-3 games on different servers as a regular marine - all the servers were noticeably laggy. Did something happen to the servers or just bad luck?
when you are making a complex extremely skill-based game that isn't casual friendly, why would you try to make your money off casuals who are the only people who are fine with crappy performance/UI/netcode?
the complete disconnect between UWE priorities and the type of audience that their game appeals to is where the frustration comes from in pretty much everything that happens to this game
It's been almost a year already. Blizzard fixed their issues within 2 days. It's been more than 200 days and still UWE haven't fixed their main issue, the main reason why player numbers plummeted after initial release, and in fact, things are getting worse, as attested to by comments on this thread.
It's a lost cause.
Or we are just not in the same timezone. But i guess that went right past your head. Anyway in the end, your problem, not mine. If your are going to resolve to flaming me and calling me a coward without even knowing me, well lets just stop right there.
I can understand that.
There was one build where they had exactly same performance problem. Culprit was found and it was fixed within 2 days. I wasn't playing that build for there 2 days.
let me summarize my interaction with this bunch of patches.
new stuff... yay
performance is crap... booo
alien tech tree changed, wait...
skulk upgrades... where are they?... wtf? what's it doing on a whip?
drifter 8 res... wait what? but that's as much as a harvester.
hop out of hive... where the fuck is all my res? wtf? NOOOOO!!! Gorgemander.
toggle alien vision... ARGGHH i can't seeeeee.
we like new stuff, but they haven't really justified changing alien vision and haven't really gotten the two modes in a acceptable state for more experienced play.
the performance was shit right out of the gates, bugs came out that should have been caught first thing. And from the timing and comments it appears they used their normal audience as playtesters for a bad build to prepare for a PR blitz a day or two later. that's dirty pool.
not even going to touch how much they nerfed aliens.
they are pretty damn heavyhanded when it comes to balance.
@ForlornHope the title of the thread is why is everyone upset. I'd be pretty surprised if that didnt entail some "whining"
@Chimichanga, the reason this is frustrating right now is because I DIIIID. Black friday new egg sales, upgraded graphics card and power supply SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY NS2. And it had been working (mostly) wonderfully since then. Now I can not play at all. So yes, I'm annoyed to see all these fancy new skins and upheaval of alien gameplay (again) at the cost of not being able to play at all. Shouldn't have to turn settings all the way down again to try to squeak out some function when I've paid for equipment that should be able to handle it and when it had been handling it fine for 8 months prior, especially since luajt.
I know they're working on it, but 254 yielded no improvement for me. Just hope that these bugs are fixed sooner rather than later, if at all.
Don't try to summarize the issue in two words. Even my post that did not add arguments or details was several lines long.
You could try to say that they are changing the game rather than improving it, but that would not be completely true nor exhaustive.
Many things are very poorly handled from UWE side. A Biodome play tester said that they tested it with the old version for most of the time, and almost not with Reinforced/252, so that means potentially big flaws. In general, UWE added unecessary/unneeded content rather than useful improvements like performance or balance (they did try to address that, but the fact is the game is less fun as of now and it's not sure it's more balanced ; that's very poor balancing in any ways).
You also said that the upsetting comed down to performance and UI, but if you'd read the thread you'd have seen way more reason (exept for alien vision, there's no problem with the UI).
But I get your point.
the immediate upset comes from the immediate concerns. being able to play at all at an acceptable level is the most immediate concern for any player. completely new balance will be tested and questioned when people can actually get through a match and get a couple dozen games under their belt.
Intel Core i5-3570K 3,4 Ghz
ASUS GeForce GTX 670 2GB DirectCU II
16Gigs of ram
That is the primary specs of my computer, nothing super about it, nothing to expensive. So i wonder, how come the game runs at 60 FPS in the heat of battle and over 80 FPS all other times for me? When apperently it does not for others. Software issues? Updated Drivers. Something but i had no issues yesterday at all.
Sorry for beeing aggressive, thinking and reading too much about all of this doesn't put into a friendly climate
1) it's not just about average framerate, but the variance between framertimes and jerkiness / stuttering / input lag
2) 60 FPS is nothing great, even if it's a smooth 60 (which NS2 is not)
3) You have a relatively high-end system and are getting pretty bad performance (you can turn down some graphics settings... we're fine doing that too. but you can't say "use less CPU")
4) Servers cannot handle this game, which is another huge cause of performance problems
NS2 has extremely hard to hit enemies. The performance demands are a lot higher than your average FPS
The very idea that they would enter into a patch situation where massive changes are made, then not have the funds to 'fix' it without an infusion is unbelievable.
I also agree with Biz, as I agree that there has been a neglect of the more foundational items. I also agree that the req specs shouldn't radically change without a new product.
Rock on UWE!
intel runnin 3.1 GHz, EVGA geforce gtx 550 ti 2gb, 4 gb ram, wasnt a problem before-hand. Usually getting around 74 fps w/ everything on high except ambient occlusion (which i turn off) and bloom (also off), rarely get bottle-necking. I just had a driver update in like April I think, but I'll check again. I wouldnt even mind the stuttery performance, my problem is that it doesn't perform at all atm. Cant even get sandbox to run for more than a few minutes. Obviously you see my frustration, I'd like to be out there shooting/biting you all to bits right now. Instead I'm waiting for follow up on my tech support post or a hot fix, which does not appear to be coming before the weekend. So I'm S.O.L. for now.
Been playin since b 237, and throughout all new build releases, I'd seen in the forums people having the ol "game won't run since patch" problem. Had always been glad to have dodged those bullets, but it finally got me!
Dont get me wrong, I love NS, and understand they're doing everything they can do being an indie company. Just really wanna bite things now...
More accurately, too much change too fast.
Compare this to TF2. 2007 TF2 is quite different from 2013 TF2. But Valve made the changes incrementally over 6 long years so that even the biggest patches only changed maybe three dozen things, most of which were map exploits and bugs.
If UWE had simply moved slower and tested more, they wouldn't have the same kind of outrage. How many significant changes has the shotgun in NS2 gone though? At least 4. The rocket launcher from TF2 has seen 1 major change.
Very much agree with this.
Linux support should have been on a separate patch and had a market campaign specifically for it. Not only would this have gotten more exposure about the Linux support, but UWE also would have been able to specifically focus on all the issues that it brought with it rather than trying to deal with all the other issues that popped up with the other changes.
10/10