Don't often play much nowadays but gave biodome a few goes and saw this "reinforced program" thing, like alot i immediately saw it as a show of good business acumen with non gameplay altering DLC, on the other it does have an undertone of desperate bribery in offering people the chance to appear more important in the community in giving more of their money over to help pay bills under the guise of prolonging the game, unfortunately the latter is the dominant thought they are a business afterall.
I don't think they lack communication at all, in fact during the big 'balance patch' with that gigantic sewlek thread he was reading and replying to tons of suggestions made, or giving reason to changes
The new tutorial they just added
The rest of your complaints seem to be performance driven and we've had a response that they used lua to help release the game quicker (and lua apparently doesn't support true multi-threading, which is why the game seems to require such a strong single cpu) because they claimed if they had used c++ or what not the game would still not be released and they were running out of funds? -- not sure if this is 100% correct
Also lua is pretty nifty with modding, but I would honestly give UWE best developer award just because they're so interactive; sure they may do something you don't like here and there but honestly compare it to any other games you've played in the past five years, how many of those developers even give a single crap about you? I've had games broken from launch, and never fixed, heck some major developers don't even have a forum to contact them on// or sent support requests through their publishers who then send you pre-automated messages and if it's anything worse then they cannot help you
Also I'd never compare them to hi-rez, no offense to hi-rez but they make some of the worst decisions you can make; especially when they actually just let out a decent title which has a small but failing to grow playerbase, they also just disabled their own forum because they couldn't take the amount of criticisms/suggestions imo and they had pretty much zero communication
The game code and renderer are two separate threads now and should use more than one core, or at least I'm told.
How long did UWE spend in alpha?
How long did UWE spend in beta?
Not as much time as the game has been released and yet they have re-worked everything since release.
We are still in beta why, cause everything they did in beta has gone out the window in the past 8 months.
I just love that after a year of playing this game diligently, my performance has steadily dropped off to unbearable levels as time as gone on.
Grenades? Lag fest.
Ready rooms? 4 fps!
Almost any game post B253? Nope.
Biodome?? Fuhgeddaboutit.
Not a clunker:
i5 2500k oc'd to 4.5ghz
8gb ram
HD 6850's in crossfire
Dx11
I have the same specs as you exactly only my cpu isn't OC'd (my room has heating issues) and I only have one GPU, and I get good performance with noticable framerate drops only on Biodome in some areas so I don't know wtf is wrong with your pc. I have all the vision-obstructing eyecandy off but other than that most effects etc. are on.
I have the same specs as you exactly only my cpu isn't OC'd (my room has heating issues) and I only have one GPU, and I get good performance with noticable framerate drops only on Biodome in some areas so I don't know wtf is wrong with your pc. I have all the vision-obstructing eyecandy off but other than that most effects etc. are on.
Yeah I don't know. CPU and Gpu loads and temps are fine. Ram usage runs 30-40% in game. I can run every other new release game at max settings just fine (eg : borderlands 2). My only bottlenecks are Internet speed (12mbps) and HDD r/w speed possibly. Game used to run as you described up until B253 / B254..
@Sycho - I was having lots of trouble getting anything to run, even sandbox (still having crashes here and there), but I saw in some thread someone wrote they typed r_mt false in console and magically it did something to help them out. I tried that also and it's been working loads better, despite still having about a 20 fps loss overall. I also unsubscribed to all mods and deleted my entire workshop folder.
Is there anything more? Or is it just about the performance?
I'd love to play more than a couple games on just free weekends... but it's hard to put up with the insane server lag every server (even 16p) has after just 15min. I don't understand how anything can be more important than having the game be playable. Warping, noreg, killing skulks that froze in midair, etc all in excessive amounts on both official 16p servers and the overclocked community servers makes it pretty far from playable imo
Game seems to be running better than the release of Reinforced. Actually find it to be playable now on the 24 player servers, it runs ok on the lower pop but still not as good as it used to be. Combat runs great though.
I've been thoroughly enjoying the new update myself. The game feels more balanced to me. There are a few issues I've noticed like the feel of the skulk being a little off, but I've had some epic wins and defeats today.
I actually like some of the changes, and will most likely adapt to the rest. My beef is with performance, bugs and at times nasty treatment (bordering on exploitation) of the dedicated community. I stress "at times" because its not persistent behavior. The guys and gals at UWE also do some awesome stuff for the community..."at times".
Its a business, they give what they can but at the end of the day they have to make as much money as they can as well. If they overstep the line, Its our responsibility as consumers to call them out on it.
I do think that positive reinforcement is also important. People who complain, like myself, should remember to give credit where its due. But diehard fans should also remember that there's a difference between positive reinforcement and blind praise.
Ultimately the problem is that the success of ns1 convinced flayra that he knew what he was doing when it came to making a game. Don't get me wrong, I unabashedly love ns1, but the disjointed state of ns2 has indicates to me that his success in making the first game was mostly just luck. Too many clumsy, bolted-on features in ns2 to justify the cost of making it has dragged down the overall quality to something that's barely recognizable. A slew of poor decisions while making this game have forced it into it's current state: barely breaking into the top 100 games played on steam, even with multiple firesales and content adds.
These forums are chill compared to so many games... It's the natural order of things that threads will be driven by suggestions for improvement, discussions of issues, and anger at problems.
Yeah, forums of F2P games are especially bad. Even more so when the game has a strong competitive component where the failure of your team mates has also a strong negative influence on your own performance. (In other words: MOBAs)
Those forums can just be described as "toxic". I've been through that myself and it's scary how quickly you start to get into raging about things there yourself, despite being usually a calm person. And when the developers start to stay away from the forums because of the constant negative attitude, you know something's going extremely wrong.
So as long as we see a yellow post at least once a week, we are pretty fine here I guess.
These forums are chill compared to so many games... It's the natural order of things that threads will be driven by suggestions for improvement, discussions of issues, and anger at problems.
Being really honest I think this forum is actually extremely chill, guess i'm just used to the threatening, underground nature of my home forums
Performance has been getting lower, and some quite random quirks have shown up but overall I think seeing the amount of content and effort put into the game so far the problems have been pretty minimal, I do understand that not everyone's got as blessed a rig as mine (nor my extensive knowledge and will to tweak my OS to extract every last bit out of it), but i'm pretty sure that it'll get better with the time. For now just play on a lower setting if your rig isn't monster grade, I guess.
Reinforced was basically a major overhaul in the game (made me come straight back into it, even registered on the forums something I haven't considered at all earlier), and stuff looks promising, particularly the new renderers that once complete would allow the game to be ported to both the Xboner and PS4 (ew, but I guess it could be handy for some) in addition to OS X. I'm even tempted to try out Linux myself, but i've had some ill luck with it in the past, mostly my inability of using *nix operating systems, you know all that compiling and bash stuff, as I'm way too used to Windows itself. Believe me whenever I use my MacBook and don't boot into Windows i'm as lost as our grandmothers using a computer )
These forums are chill compared to so many games... It's the natural order of things that threads will be driven by suggestions for improvement, discussions of issues, and anger at problems.
So your response to your customers' gripes is that people are more angry at other games?? Okay, how about we at least acknowledge our shortcomings, and promise to do better for starters? That's customer service 101 whether it's true or even if you perceive the complaints to be totally unmerited.
Inb4 I get blown up about what a saint Hugh is, and how his response to this thread isn't a total cop out.
I've had the typical misgivings about game direction, business decisions, performance etc. but the uniquely disappointing thing for me (that makes me very unpopular when voiced) is that I think the people working on this game are fundamentally bad at games and, therefore, bad at making games. The expertise has been in Art and "wow" factor design rather than in what makes movement satisfying or what makes melee/range work or how to pace a game etc.
I still remember the day when Charlie considered the relationship between speed and unpredictability for wallhopping for the first time, YEARS into the game's development. I also recall the discussions that took place with old NS1 veterans, including myself, highlighting the completely warped and flawed understanding of what NS1 was good for. He had some decent overarching ideas and recognised some obvious and prevalent flaws which needed to be addressed but never proved to me that he grasped the underlying root causes. In fact, the vast majority of solutions were often completely misguided, raising new and (exacerbating current) issues.
I think they took the wrong direction in nerfing the dual railgun... as an example of what makes it unfun for people to play. a better solution would have been to Nerf the damage so it couldn't kill fades outright, not desync the shots. it truly wreaks havoc on those of us with nonstandard keybinds.
I've had the typical misgivings about game direction, business decisions, performance etc. but the uniquely disappointing thing for me (that makes me very unpopular when voiced) is that I think the people working on this game are fundamentally bad at games and, therefore, bad at making games. The expertise has been in Art and "wow" factor design rather than in what makes movement satisfying or what makes melee/range work or how to pace a game etc.
I still remember the day when Charlie considered the relationship between speed and unpredictability for wallhopping for the first time, YEARS into the game's development. I also recall the discussions that took place with old NS1 veterans, including myself, highlighting the completely warped and flawed understanding of what NS1 was good for. He had some decent overarching ideas and recognised some obvious and prevalent flaws which needed to be addressed but never proved to me that he grasped the underlying root causes. In fact, the vast majority of solutions were often completely misguided, raising new and (exacerbating current) issues.
I could go on but bleh.
I approve of this kind of post, and would like to hear more, you might not be right, but your views should be heard, as someone I respected greatly once said,don't take refuge in the false security of consensus. minority voices are equal if not greater in importance than majority ones.
Hugh why even bother posting about how chill the forums are? You came into a rage thread and say that...you're a developer so why post irrelevant information when a large portion of your fan base is pissed? Usually you don't hear from developers, but we did and you gave us nothing useful in your post other than that you guys take suggestions into consideration and in this entire thread you can't comment on a single point brought up. So as a developer why post? SteveRock acknowledged the poor performance and said it was being worked on - that's the kind of stuff the community wants to hear. You just came across as really arrogant, Hugh. IMO, a total facepalm on the PR.
Unless their 550,000 is hit, it sounds like developement will stop.
Do you have a reliable source for that?
And by that you mean just adding new content or also fixing current bugs?
Hugh said in the video that was released recently (it was a brief thing at PAX or something) that if they didn't reach the goal they would have to start work on a new IP. The gameplay introduced in 252 might be pretty much it in terms of major revisions. Hopefully they can fix the performance at least.
I think the reception to Gorgeous was worse, as the performance was not as great as it is currently.
It is shame that UWE are forced to release this game to such deadlines, being a small company and having development costs of half a million over 6 months is very steep. Especially when you are not sure of the returns.
All it needs is a couple of weeks and a few more adjustments to the renderers based on community feedback and crash reports.
I didn't notice any change in performance after gorgeous was released but after reinforced it's horrendous (4.4 ghz quadcore with AMD 7970).
This version is installing DX9 and set it by default.
If you have a rig that is DX11 capable... go to options.
It surely isn't the big issue of course, but can help a little. On my rig DX9 is running slow compared to DX11 which is native from the OS i have.
DX9 runs slower than DX11 for me too. Was it only DX9 before though? Switching over to DX11 made it a little better but it still rubberbands and skips frames like crazy. FPS did increase a few but it's negligible considering how choppy things are.
SteveRock acknowledged the poor performance and said it was being worked on - that's the kind of stuff the community wants to hear.
Good point.
So now that the devs have answered and the OP's question has been answered by those who volunteered their opinions, what purpose is this thread serving now, other than being a soap box for raging?
Comments
Grenades? Lag fest.
Ready rooms? 4 fps!
Almost any game post B253? Nope.
Biodome?? Fuhgeddaboutit.
Not a clunker:
i5 2500k oc'd to 4.5ghz
8gb ram
HD 6850's in crossfire
Dx11
Geforce GTX 560
i3-2100
16GB ram
How long did UWE spend in beta?
Not as much time as the game has been released and yet they have re-worked everything since release.
We are still in beta why, cause everything they did in beta has gone out the window in the past 8 months.
I have the same specs as you exactly only my cpu isn't OC'd (my room has heating issues) and I only have one GPU, and I get good performance with noticable framerate drops only on Biodome in some areas so I don't know wtf is wrong with your pc. I have all the vision-obstructing eyecandy off but other than that most effects etc. are on.
Yeah I don't know. CPU and Gpu loads and temps are fine. Ram usage runs 30-40% in game. I can run every other new release game at max settings just fine (eg : borderlands 2). My only bottlenecks are Internet speed (12mbps) and HDD r/w speed possibly. Game used to run as you described up until B253 / B254..
Win7 64 - i7 3770k 3.5GHz - GTX570 - 16GB - SSD's
In Biodome my fps is about 70 to 80, turn a corner, boom 20. But even when it's 70 or higher it feels like 10.
Nothing wrong with your pc.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/131384/how-to-make-a-good-tech-support-post for info on deleting workshop folder.
I'd love to play more than a couple games on just free weekends... but it's hard to put up with the insane server lag every server (even 16p) has after just 15min. I don't understand how anything can be more important than having the game be playable. Warping, noreg, killing skulks that froze in midair, etc all in excessive amounts on both official 16p servers and the overclocked community servers makes it pretty far from playable imo
Its a business, they give what they can but at the end of the day they have to make as much money as they can as well. If they overstep the line, Its our responsibility as consumers to call them out on it.
I do think that positive reinforcement is also important. People who complain, like myself, should remember to give credit where its due. But diehard fans should also remember that there's a difference between positive reinforcement and blind praise.
Mine has steadily increased and my specs are significantly worse, mebe you should clean your fans?
Discovered the problem: Dx11 and Crossfire won't play well together in NS2. Rolled back to Dx9 and was back to 80fps.
Those forums can just be described as "toxic". I've been through that myself and it's scary how quickly you start to get into raging about things there yourself, despite being usually a calm person. And when the developers start to stay away from the forums because of the constant negative attitude, you know something's going extremely wrong.
So as long as we see a yellow post at least once a week, we are pretty fine here I guess.
Mostly ANGER... Give me my AV back!!!
Performance has been getting lower, and some quite random quirks have shown up but overall I think seeing the amount of content and effort put into the game so far the problems have been pretty minimal, I do understand that not everyone's got as blessed a rig as mine (nor my extensive knowledge and will to tweak my OS to extract every last bit out of it), but i'm pretty sure that it'll get better with the time. For now just play on a lower setting if your rig isn't monster grade, I guess.
Reinforced was basically a major overhaul in the game (made me come straight back into it, even registered on the forums something I haven't considered at all earlier), and stuff looks promising, particularly the new renderers that once complete would allow the game to be ported to both the Xboner and PS4 (ew, but I guess it could be handy for some) in addition to OS X. I'm even tempted to try out Linux myself, but i've had some ill luck with it in the past, mostly my inability of using *nix operating systems, you know all that compiling and bash stuff, as I'm way too used to Windows itself. Believe me whenever I use my MacBook and don't boot into Windows i'm as lost as our grandmothers using a computer
So your response to your customers' gripes is that people are more angry at other games?? Okay, how about we at least acknowledge our shortcomings, and promise to do better for starters? That's customer service 101 whether it's true or even if you perceive the complaints to be totally unmerited.
Inb4 I get blown up about what a saint Hugh is, and how his response to this thread isn't a total cop out.
what badge?! I see no badges!! I want my shadow babbler badger flabgakjsdf
EDIT: Icon doesn't show up in Chrome for me. I can only scroll over the place it's supposed to be and see 'Reinforced - Shadow'
I still remember the day when Charlie considered the relationship between speed and unpredictability for wallhopping for the first time, YEARS into the game's development. I also recall the discussions that took place with old NS1 veterans, including myself, highlighting the completely warped and flawed understanding of what NS1 was good for. He had some decent overarching ideas and recognised some obvious and prevalent flaws which needed to be addressed but never proved to me that he grasped the underlying root causes. In fact, the vast majority of solutions were often completely misguided, raising new and (exacerbating current) issues.
I could go on but bleh.
I approve of this kind of post, and would like to hear more, you might not be right, but your views should be heard, as someone I respected greatly once said,don't take refuge in the false security of consensus. minority voices are equal if not greater in importance than majority ones.
Hugh said in the video that was released recently (it was a brief thing at PAX or something) that if they didn't reach the goal they would have to start work on a new IP. The gameplay introduced in 252 might be pretty much it in terms of major revisions. Hopefully they can fix the performance at least.
I didn't notice any change in performance after gorgeous was released but after reinforced it's horrendous (4.4 ghz quadcore with AMD 7970).
DX9 runs slower than DX11 for me too. Was it only DX9 before though? Switching over to DX11 made it a little better but it still rubberbands and skips frames like crazy. FPS did increase a few but it's negligible considering how choppy things are.
So now that the devs have answered and the OP's question has been answered by those who volunteered their opinions, what purpose is this thread serving now, other than being a soap box for raging?