When are we going to have an actual "balance" patch?
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
Glaring issue to be reported in the new Last Stand mod. One person can easily shut down play if they go AFK. If one person is AFK, the game does not start. Hope this gets patched up as last stand is a really fun game mod.
2 small bugs I found:
- some script error messages in console in explore mode
- the loading screen will show wrong steps, for example "loading map" while still happily compiling shaders. This is nothing new, just thought I could mention it.
Yeah, agree completely with Cat-Poker. If one person goes AFK, the whole game is just frozen. One of our players had to text message an admin to kick the AFK player, but by then half the server had rage quit. Otherwise, great mod so far. The missing map makes me a bit uncomfortable (I'm a mappy kinda guy) but I'm sure this will come in time. Muchos kudos!
I'm not sure whats going on but this patch gives me a freeze up any time I am beaconed or take a phasegate. I also lost massive framerates (as much as 40 fps late game). I hear phantom bile bomb after its used constantly. The gorge tunnel sound plays at 10x volume in my ears. Halp
I assume to stop some exploit...I hope it wasn't to stop J1/J2 spam, because that's such a waste.
It was actually to stop a set of players that were binding kill and j1 to a number, they were flooding servers with bodies that would crash the game. This is to help alleviate the dead body spam.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Just played a game of last stand on the landing pad map and it looks like a lot of effort went into that map. Is this potentially part of the remake of docking that is in the works?
Also good news from Cory as I think many were interested in the time scale of these developments.
I assume to stop some exploit...I hope it wasn't to stop J1/J2 spam, because that's such a waste.
It was actually to stop a set of players that were binding kill and j1 to a number, they were flooding servers with bodies that would crash the game. This is to help alleviate the dead body spam.
Then why stop the command spam AND limit kill to 1 second cool down? Surely limiting the kill command alone was enough.
Just played a game of last stand on the landing pad map and it looks like a lot of effort went into that map. Is this potentially part of the remake of docking that is in the works?
No, that version of docking was only created solely for the last stand game. The large revision that is in the works does not include any of those changes, but has many others.
When are we going to have an actual "balance" patch?
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
When are we going to have an actual "balance" patch?
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
Has there been any consideration in adding a console command to pre-render everything on first load? It's obviously worse after a patch with the shader rendering, but each game launch I wish I could just hit a button that says "pre-load everything now"
By pre rendered i take it you mean Pre-cached.
Everything in game should be precached already.*
(thats the precaching % you see while loading)
If you are unsure, disable "Texture streaming" in your options if you have it on- and once you are in a game already, type loadtimes true in the console (~ key) and it will print out what file and how long it took to load said file in milliseconds - When / if it loads anything.
So if you play a whole game and your log.txt (in your hidden %appdata%\Natural Selection 2\ folder) or console never reported anything similar to this** :
Loading 'models/alien/shade/shade.model' took 43.73 ms
Loading 'shaders/blur.screenfx' took 43.74 ms
Loading 'shaders/hivevision.screenfx' took 44.25 ms
Then you are okay. IF you saw it loading something and its more than 5 ms time, please PM me it.
Thanks.
*except for some fonts, which was deemed acceptable
**Map loads will obviously load a ton of information, so ignore map loading information if you are collecting this data. I suggest typing something in game to mark the map load being complete, making it easier to find in logs.
He probably wants to say that he would like to have an option that makes the game precache stuff that is used by every map already when the game is in the main menu (like marine and alien skins, structures, infestation, etc), but not even that is sure after all since some mods don't make any use of that stuff at all.
But he would at least like to have an option to force a recompilation of the shaders from the start instead of having to join a server and then wait for it during the map load.
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
--Cory
made my day !!!
its like the best NEWS every. (ok, only the start of NS2 was as good)
For everyone who has not testes the balance mod yet, you should do it right now.
Alien Kham > Marin commander
When are we going to have an actual "balance" patch?
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
--Cory
Final testing? Will we get to see the chunks that are being considered for vanilla before they are implemented? I know Sewlek said there would be a smaller mod with considered changes but Idk if that will still happen.
By default, the consistency configuration file will include all file types except UI textures and View Model assets
Great. So much for interesting fun cool mods like Dread Guard Aliens and 5th Recon Marines and Organic Alien Overhaul. They'll be disabled by default, which in practical terms means disabled everywhere. The only time any server op has ever overridden the defaults, it's been to increase the restrictions on skin mods, not loosen them. Because OMG CHEETERZ!!!
Most server ops don't care, but whereas before "don't care" meant hey, great, knock yourself out now it means no skins for you!
Because OMG CHEETERZ.
Pfeh.
Sorry but this is a great move, having those skins also allowed undesirable skins by default.
Does not really bode well for new players who are trying to be sneaky if players are using neon skulks.
Besides which...those skins kind of defeated/devalued the whole black and deluxe armour that us early investors got.
Edit...Not sure I like the idea of removing team joining restrictions...outside of comp games I dont see this being of any value...and would simply lead to more 1 sided team stacking.
Not a great move, really. If you have a fly in your kitchen, you don't buy a flamethrower and burn your house down to kill it. Adressing the skins issue is indeed a "great move", if it removes alternative skins that aren't PINKSKULKS, not so much. I'm not a tech pro, I can't tell by just reading the changelog, so I'll just trust you on that guys.
When are we going to have an actual "balance" patch?
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
--Cory
Final testing? Will we get to see the chunks that are being considered for vanilla before they are implemented? I know Sewlek said there would be a smaller mod with considered changes but Idk if that will still happen.
That mod is still the Balance mod, I think. If you visited the Steam Workshop page frequently, you would notice that the changelog is a lot better structured now and has some features preceded with a ? at their bullet point, which indicates a feature that is still pending on it's inclusion. But everything without a ? (which is most of the original mod) can probably be considered confirmed for the live build.
Nice update.
Would be cool, if you could prioritize Marines for Nanoshield to drop on them.
As example, imagine Nanogrid. There are 2 RTs, a PG, an Armory. 1 Fade, 1 Marine with JP. You try to Nanoshield the Marine and there are too many buildings, the chance to drop it on a building instead by mistake is very high.
Just think about it, maybe it's only me. But I saw other High Skilled Commander happening the same.
Bit sad that you can no longer make scan suns. Scan cd (no matter how short) essentially takes away from fun/responsiveness, without solving any real problem or adding anything else of benefit.
a) If someone wants to waste res/troll, he's going to be able to do it despite any cd - meds/ammos/ghost structures that block marines. Does a cd prevent alien commander from bone walling fades and onoses etc? No. Eject and community/server management are your main solutions, and already implemented. b) Scan spam does not have any overpowered balance effect on real gameplay. It's already prohibitively expensive for single uses, and it doesn't block alien vision. Basically, there is absolutely no gameplay need for the cd. c) If you want to actually 'fix' scan spam, change it to obs energy. 100 cap, 20 per use, beacon 50 energy 10 res. You'll find this solution has the additional benefit of deepening gameplay. d) If i have res to burn and the game is over, why can't we have a little bit of fun and manner scan? From experience, people generally have fun when they discover something new, interesting, and pretty. As long as there is no balance impact, i don't see why you would remove scan suns. They were something you did at the end of the game (along with timed victory beacons or victory eggs), kind of like what happens for most people after escorting the one eyed postal worker. e) Sometimes you really do need to scan twice in two areas in quick succession, and then instantly med multiple situations very quickly or do something else. Just doesn't feel very good and puts a cap on commander mechanical skill. Kind of like the cyst cd - It's short enough that you can't really do anything inbetween due to UI lag or the bad pseudo 'double click go to group', and long enough that you're sitting there braindead spending half the time waiting spamming a, and tunnel visioning. f) The bright lights are really immersive.
Ofcourse it's a small change, and one that won't really affect how much fun people derive from playing in the overall context. I'm more concerned by how short sighted most of these cd additions seem to be. This constant trend of simply 'fixing' things with cd's indicates to me that not alot of proper thought or consideration seems to be put into *edit*certain decisions or gameplay analysis.
But the following makes up for it i guess
- Added the ability to check consistency on files that don’t exist on the server through a precomputed hash file
- Sped up server start times by pre-computing hashes for files for consistency checking
When are we going to have an actual "balance" patch?
As you can see with Sewlek's balance mod, there is quite a lot of large revisions in the works, so the next stage will likely be bringing over a large chunk of that mod, first, rather then continuing to tweak the current version of the game. But things are about ready to move into a final testing phase with that mod, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
--Cory
Are you really going to implement most of the major changes of the balance mod?
For example, judging by the changelog:
- Marines can build on Infestation
- Marine Comm can temporarily power individual structures
This alone effectively removes 2 new central features of NS2, infestation (now more or less a nuisance for Aliens without benefit) and power nodes (what's the point of strategically attacking a power node if the Marine Comm can just power the Obs or Gate anyway?)
Are you really going to change the game drastically so it's basically a new version of NS2 that is fundamentally different (the entire Alien upgrade process is different)?
Have you given up on current NS2?
Why the heavy modification, not even a year after release?
I already handled this. Quite simply, first understand in what circumstances scan spam is used. Then you'll be able to understand what the appropriate solutions are.
*edit*
We are talking about ns2 here btw. Simply running the game on an average PC will kill your framerate. The solution to bad performance is not badly implemented gameplay cannibalism.
Are you really going to implement most of the major changes of the balance mod?
For example, judging by the changelog:
- Marines can build on Infestation
- Marine Comm can temporarily power individual structures
This alone effectively removes 2 new central features of NS2, infestation (now more or less a nuisance for Aliens without benefit) and power nodes (what's the point of strategically attacking a power node if the Marine Comm can just power the Obs or Gate anyway?)
Are you really going to change the game drastically so it's basically a new version of NS2 that is fundamentally different (the entire Alien upgrade process is different)?
Have you given up on current NS2?
Why the heavy modification, not even a year after release?
Just wondering, because I don't understand it :-O
The goal of the Balance mod changes are to tip the gameplay a bit in a more action-oriented direction that sacrifices some "features" that were often slow and didn't involve much action for the involved players.
You can see that in several changes:
- Gorges build stuff twice as fast with their healspray now, so they won't spend 2 minutes just holding M2 on a Hive or RT.
- Khammanders get their Drifters built instantly (with a cooldown) and while researching other stuff in the Hive, so they don't have to keep waiting for an upgrade or the Drifter build process to finish to actually do what they wanted to do.
- Drifters require and allow more micromanagement instead of just sitting cloaked in a corner until they get discovered.
- Khammander has an additional cast ability to help out in combat.
- Whips are easier to move.
- Infestation recedes twice as fast when cysts are destroyed.
- Alien structures take 4 times more minimum damage off infestation.
- Infestation covers a much larger radius, so the Khammander can focus more on other duties instead of judiciously making sure where to place his cysts in the most optimal way.
- ARC changes encourage to build the ARC Factory close to the front line rather than moving ARCs from your base all across the map.
You are also exaggerating. When you say "judging by the changelog", then it probably means that you didn't actually play the mod and thus can't judge the impact of those features.
For starters do structures still build only at 50% of the normal speed on infestation. So there is still a benefit involved in destroying the infestation.
Since infestation recedes faster and there are less cysts overall, it would be even more viable than in vanilla to do so.
This change is a good one because it makes the game less PvC (player vs cyst) and both teams can focus on more interesting stuff.
It also makes it less frustrating for a commander who tries to drop a structure somewhere but can't see where the infestation has been cleared away already.
The built-on-infestation and Power Surge changes exists to bring back the ability to perform ninja PG rushes like in NS1. Aliens should not just rely on their infestation to detect such rushes (by forcing the enemy to destroy a cyst) but instead require constant active scouting with Drifters to notice such rushes before the marines can set up (the time for them to set up is still higher than usual on infestation, so aliens have more time to react), similar to how they constantly need to scout for ARC rushes.
A good side effect of Power Surge is that it makes going straight for the Power Node less of an optimal approach for any base attack because the commander can still activate a chosen structure (only one at a time, for 30 seconds, at the cost of 10 (or was it 5?) res). So aliens actually have more reasons to attack the structures first to really get rid of the threat.
Otherwise the commander could reactivate the Arms Lab to help out the troops who are just coming into the base at that moment. Or reactivate the Obs to beacon everyone. Or reactivate the PG for reinforcements. Or reactivate the Armory to provide more defense in the area. Or reactivate the IP to let players spawn again if it's the only IPs that they have left (the Power Surge will last long enough to let two more players spawn). Or reactivate the Robotics Factory to build a MAC that welds the Power Node if the area is pretty safe after a rush. Or reactivate the Prototype Lab to get some Exos out that hold the position.
I already used each of those scenarios and it really is not an easy decision what structure you are going to surge, especially if you are low on resources. Since the ability is so limited, has a long cooldown (that leaves you vulnerable to other attacks where you might have needed it) and costs res, you still have plenty of reasons to build a Power Node regardless. It just makes it less frustrating to lose to a Power Node base rush of a single Gorge.
Infestation is still the home of aliens, since it slows marine construction down, explodes mines on contact, provides a better camouflage for aliens than the normal textures of a room, allows Gorges to escape faster, helps them to grow structures faster, keeps alien structures alive, allows Whips to attack and allows the khammander to help out in combat by casting three different abilities on it.
The alien upgrade process being different is not a bad thing. It adds more to the asymmetry than the previous one, where aliens were a bit similar to marines. Now they have a whole different resource for them that their tech relies on and which also allows their lifeforms to scale properly for the lategame and gives them a chance to still be competitive at 1 Hive, but not right off the bat.
Improving a game after release doesn't really imply "giving up on it" in my book. You really just seem to be afraid of change in general. It's not like NS1 didn't get any frequent heavy modifications either, did it?
Comments
Sewleks needs some work, however it's really good right now so I'm guessing not too much longer!
--Cory
2 small bugs I found:
- some script error messages in console in explore mode
- the loading screen will show wrong steps, for example "loading map" while still happily compiling shaders. This is nothing new, just thought I could mention it.
I'll have to check out these new mods tomorrow! Should be exciting!
It was actually to stop a set of players that were binding kill and j1 to a number, they were flooding servers with bodies that would crash the game. This is to help alleviate the dead body spam.
Also good news from Cory as I think many were interested in the time scale of these developments.
But 30 secs is too little for a bathroom break
Then why stop the command spam AND limit kill to 1 second cool down? Surely limiting the kill command alone was enough.
Well if you just sit out the next round, that makes 3 minutes total. That's enough for a bathroom break
Thanks Cory
He probably wants to say that he would like to have an option that makes the game precache stuff that is used by every map already when the game is in the main menu (like marine and alien skins, structures, infestation, etc), but not even that is sure after all since some mods don't make any use of that stuff at all.
But he would at least like to have an option to force a recompilation of the shaders from the start instead of having to join a server and then wait for it during the map load.
made my day !!!
its like the best NEWS every. (ok, only the start of NS2 was as good)
For everyone who has not testes the balance mod yet, you should do it right now.
Alien Kham > Marin commander
Final testing? Will we get to see the chunks that are being considered for vanilla before they are implemented? I know Sewlek said there would be a smaller mod with considered changes but Idk if that will still happen.
Not a great move, really. If you have a fly in your kitchen, you don't buy a flamethrower and burn your house down to kill it. Adressing the skins issue is indeed a "great move", if it removes alternative skins that aren't PINKSKULKS, not so much. I'm not a tech pro, I can't tell by just reading the changelog, so I'll just trust you on that guys.
That mod is still the Balance mod, I think. If you visited the Steam Workshop page frequently, you would notice that the changelog is a lot better structured now and has some features preceded with a ? at their bullet point, which indicates a feature that is still pending on it's inclusion. But everything without a ? (which is most of the original mod) can probably be considered confirmed for the live build.
Would be cool, if you could prioritize Marines for Nanoshield to drop on them.
As example, imagine Nanogrid. There are 2 RTs, a PG, an Armory. 1 Fade, 1 Marine with JP. You try to Nanoshield the Marine and there are too many buildings, the chance to drop it on a building instead by mistake is very high.
Just think about it, maybe it's only me. But I saw other High Skilled Commander happening the same.
a) If someone wants to waste res/troll, he's going to be able to do it despite any cd - meds/ammos/ghost structures that block marines. Does a cd prevent alien commander from bone walling fades and onoses etc? No. Eject and community/server management are your main solutions, and already implemented.
b) Scan spam does not have any overpowered balance effect on real gameplay. It's already prohibitively expensive for single uses, and it doesn't block alien vision. Basically, there is absolutely no gameplay need for the cd.
c) If you want to actually 'fix' scan spam, change it to obs energy. 100 cap, 20 per use, beacon 50 energy 10 res. You'll find this solution has the additional benefit of deepening gameplay.
d) If i have res to burn and the game is over, why can't we have a little bit of fun and manner scan? From experience, people generally have fun when they discover something new, interesting, and pretty. As long as there is no balance impact, i don't see why you would remove scan suns. They were something you did at the end of the game (along with timed victory beacons or victory eggs), kind of like what happens for most people after escorting the one eyed postal worker.
e) Sometimes you really do need to scan twice in two areas in quick succession, and then instantly med multiple situations very quickly or do something else. Just doesn't feel very good and puts a cap on commander mechanical skill. Kind of like the cyst cd - It's short enough that you can't really do anything inbetween due to UI lag or the bad pseudo 'double click go to group', and long enough that you're sitting there braindead spending half the time waiting spamming a, and tunnel visioning.
f) The bright lights are really immersive.
Ofcourse it's a small change, and one that won't really affect how much fun people derive from playing in the overall context. I'm more concerned by how short sighted most of these cd additions seem to be. This constant trend of simply 'fixing' things with cd's indicates to me that not alot of proper thought or consideration seems to be put into *edit*certain decisions or gameplay analysis.
But the following makes up for it i guess Thanks max!
For example, judging by the changelog:
- Marines can build on Infestation
- Marine Comm can temporarily power individual structures
This alone effectively removes 2 new central features of NS2, infestation (now more or less a nuisance for Aliens without benefit) and power nodes (what's the point of strategically attacking a power node if the Marine Comm can just power the Obs or Gate anyway?)
Are you really going to change the game drastically so it's basically a new version of NS2 that is fundamentally different (the entire Alien upgrade process is different)?
Have you given up on current NS2?
Why the heavy modification, not even a year after release?
Just wondering, because I don't understand it :-O
i'm not the only one with this issue
*edit*
We are talking about ns2 here btw. Simply running the game on an average PC will kill your framerate. The solution to bad performance is not badly implemented gameplay cannibalism.
The goal of the Balance mod changes are to tip the gameplay a bit in a more action-oriented direction that sacrifices some "features" that were often slow and didn't involve much action for the involved players.
You can see that in several changes:
- Gorges build stuff twice as fast with their healspray now, so they won't spend 2 minutes just holding M2 on a Hive or RT.
- Khammanders get their Drifters built instantly (with a cooldown) and while researching other stuff in the Hive, so they don't have to keep waiting for an upgrade or the Drifter build process to finish to actually do what they wanted to do.
- Drifters require and allow more micromanagement instead of just sitting cloaked in a corner until they get discovered.
- Khammander has an additional cast ability to help out in combat.
- Whips are easier to move.
- Infestation recedes twice as fast when cysts are destroyed.
- Alien structures take 4 times more minimum damage off infestation.
- Infestation covers a much larger radius, so the Khammander can focus more on other duties instead of judiciously making sure where to place his cysts in the most optimal way.
- ARC changes encourage to build the ARC Factory close to the front line rather than moving ARCs from your base all across the map.
You are also exaggerating. When you say "judging by the changelog", then it probably means that you didn't actually play the mod and thus can't judge the impact of those features.
For starters do structures still build only at 50% of the normal speed on infestation. So there is still a benefit involved in destroying the infestation.
Since infestation recedes faster and there are less cysts overall, it would be even more viable than in vanilla to do so.
This change is a good one because it makes the game less PvC (player vs cyst) and both teams can focus on more interesting stuff.
It also makes it less frustrating for a commander who tries to drop a structure somewhere but can't see where the infestation has been cleared away already.
The built-on-infestation and Power Surge changes exists to bring back the ability to perform ninja PG rushes like in NS1. Aliens should not just rely on their infestation to detect such rushes (by forcing the enemy to destroy a cyst) but instead require constant active scouting with Drifters to notice such rushes before the marines can set up (the time for them to set up is still higher than usual on infestation, so aliens have more time to react), similar to how they constantly need to scout for ARC rushes.
A good side effect of Power Surge is that it makes going straight for the Power Node less of an optimal approach for any base attack because the commander can still activate a chosen structure (only one at a time, for 30 seconds, at the cost of 10 (or was it 5?) res). So aliens actually have more reasons to attack the structures first to really get rid of the threat.
Otherwise the commander could reactivate the Arms Lab to help out the troops who are just coming into the base at that moment. Or reactivate the Obs to beacon everyone. Or reactivate the PG for reinforcements. Or reactivate the Armory to provide more defense in the area. Or reactivate the IP to let players spawn again if it's the only IPs that they have left (the Power Surge will last long enough to let two more players spawn). Or reactivate the Robotics Factory to build a MAC that welds the Power Node if the area is pretty safe after a rush. Or reactivate the Prototype Lab to get some Exos out that hold the position.
I already used each of those scenarios and it really is not an easy decision what structure you are going to surge, especially if you are low on resources. Since the ability is so limited, has a long cooldown (that leaves you vulnerable to other attacks where you might have needed it) and costs res, you still have plenty of reasons to build a Power Node regardless. It just makes it less frustrating to lose to a Power Node base rush of a single Gorge.
Infestation is still the home of aliens, since it slows marine construction down, explodes mines on contact, provides a better camouflage for aliens than the normal textures of a room, allows Gorges to escape faster, helps them to grow structures faster, keeps alien structures alive, allows Whips to attack and allows the khammander to help out in combat by casting three different abilities on it.
The alien upgrade process being different is not a bad thing. It adds more to the asymmetry than the previous one, where aliens were a bit similar to marines. Now they have a whole different resource for them that their tech relies on and which also allows their lifeforms to scale properly for the lategame and gives them a chance to still be competitive at 1 Hive, but not right off the bat.
Improving a game after release doesn't really imply "giving up on it" in my book. You really just seem to be afraid of change in general. It's not like NS1 didn't get any frequent heavy modifications either, did it?