Maybe ubmra should work more like drifter enzyme? As in having the umbra cloud instantly triggered at target location, affecting any lifeform that passes through it while it's up. Just make sure you keep the range limited, so it can't instantly drop umbra clouds from a mile away, forcing the lerk to stay somewhat close to anything it wants to umbra.
Does Aura show the health of marines? I thought it did, but when I was playing all I saw was yellow... any way to maybe make it go Green for full health, yellow for no armor, red for low health? That would solve the lerk spike issue that IronHorse brought up by giving them an option to take the upgrade if they value keeping track of one target. It wouldn't be quite the same thing, but it could actually be more useful seeing as it would work for the whole team and you'd know which targets to hit first.
@male_fatalities
I don't see how controlling a fade that is slower is harder. You're trying to explain to me in three paragraphs that pressing blink in conjunction with forward and left or forward and right strafe at 5 mph for ten seconds of stamina is harder than maneuvering with the same available movement mechanics AND more at 50 mph?
BT mod fade isn't more difficult to master.... that is terrible word choice. Its more limited period
It is more difficult because your movement is predictable, i never said mechanically it is more difficult. We arn't playing street fighter
That doesn't make it more difficult, it just makes it easier for shotgunners to annihilate you. Unpredictability can be thought of as a continuous scale: if you get rid of too much of it, all you're going to do is not give the fade the right tools to deal with situation. Frankly, it's hard to make a fade too unpredictable given the nature of hitscan shotguns in this game.
I'd like to see how the vanilla fade would play out if you only added the vertical use of ss. So you can still have ss+double jump, but with a bit more flexibility and dodging ability. Maybe it would be a good compromise between the vanilla and bt fade?
You don't seem to understand the goal of the BT fade, but I'll explain it really quickly
1) Raise the skill floor - easier for new players to start fade, or begin quicker movement; you'll see many beginner fades consistently stand still in vanilla
2) Raise the skill ceiling - more things for the advanced fade to do, don't forget you can use shadowstep to keep momentum
3) Nerf but balance at the same time, in vanilla you simply have too much energy; so this aspect is gone, but now your health values can be different (higher in BT)
This is a joke...right?
1) BT mod fade is going to be much more obtuse for beginners. Nobody is going to understand how to move around intuitively.
2) I have yet to see any proof of there being anything remotely resembling a higher skill ceiling for the BT fade. As probably the best mechanical fade in ns2, all I feel is completely gimped because of the complete lack of energy and how much weaker shadowstep (a much stronger and deeper combat ability than blink) is. Blink suffers from problems because it only lets you travel in the direction you are looking. This causes fundamental depth issues with regards to melee vs. ranged combat, and is one of the reasons playing lerk is so much easier (and simpler) than playing fade at a high level mechanically.
3) If you aren't taking full advantage of all the energy a fade has to offer in vanilla then you probably aren't qualified to talk about it at a higher level. There are some techniques that are very energy intensive and certainly require quite a bit of energy management.
Infestation is damaging structures today? That wasn't cool.
Khamm was placing cyst in nearby room and patches of infestation would spread though walls into really secured room, killing our structures.
What am i reading. Best mechanically inefficient fade in NS2?
BT fade uses the same, if not less energy than live, and shorter distance shadowstep actually increases potential player control. You are way off buddy.
Also, i'm glad to see you've completely mastered how to abuse shadowstepping in directions you arn't looking in. Gee, it must take alot of skill to press a button and instantly move in a completely unpredictable, uncounterable way. l33t dodging pr0
Find me a video of anyone, and i'll tear apart their play easily
i also play with marines that are mechanically much better than anyone on archaea, but that's a point for another day
Man, nobody wants to watch the world's mechanically un-best players play.
You totes need to upload some vids of you and your mechanical-ing pals so us scrubbies can learn 2 mechanical. Don't be selfish bro, share the mechanicalz!
I mean it would certainly make it easier to track targets if the lerk got his parasite back, but it's not like lerk isn't already viable/balanced without it. Unless it got hit with the nerf bat super hard or something. But the only difference I really felt was that it's a lot slower now... it seemed like it was just as powerful though. Granted I haven't played against anyone that was very good yet, the BT servers have been full of mostly trolls/rookies when I've played. I finally got into a server with some good players the other day, but it was a german server and I was having major ping issues
Not to mention I've seen shade hive first like like 90% of the matches anyways, people love that phantom upgrade.
Also, i'm glad to see you've completely mastered how to abuse shadowstepping in directions you arn't looking in. Gee, it must take alot of skill to press a button and instantly move in a completely unpredictable, uncounterable way. l33t dodging pr0
You've gotta be fucking kidding me. Shadowstep is uncounterable? Why do people research blink then? How come marines still win rounds?
What am i reading. Best mechanically inefficient fade in NS2?
BT fade uses the same, if not less energy than live, and shorter distance shadowstep actually increases potential player control. You are way off buddy.
Also, i'm glad to see you've completely mastered how to abuse shadowstepping in directions you arn't looking in. Gee, it must take alot of skill to press a button and instantly move in a completely unpredictable, uncounterable way. l33t dodging pr0
How many top level aimers do you play against regularly? They'll hit shots on you no matter what you do. All those shadowstepping and double jump options are really important for mitigating their shot damage and percentage. And if you want to lower their damage as much as possible, you better be using as much energy as possible. Once again, I play regularly against some of the most accurate players in the game. I regularly outplay comp fades with half their framerate.
I'll wait for a video showcasing BT fade's great combat depth, instead of showcasing arbitrary traveling mechanics that do nothing but add rote memorization and practice to the game
What am i reading. Best mechanically inefficient fade in NS2?
BT fade uses the same, if not less energy than live, and shorter distance shadowstep actually increases potential player control. You are way off buddy.
Also, i'm glad to see you've completely mastered how to abuse shadowstepping in directions you arn't looking in. Gee, it must take alot of skill to press a button and instantly move in a completely unpredictable, uncounterable way. l33t dodging pr0
How many top level aimers do you play against regularly? They'll hit shots on you no matter what you do. All those shadowstepping and double jump options are really important for mitigating their shot damage and percentage. And if you want to lower their damage as much as possible, you better be using as much energy as possible. Once again, I play regularly against some of the most accurate players in the game. I regularly outplay comp fades with half their framerate.
I'll wait for a video showcasing BT fade's great combat depth, instead of showcasing arbitrary traveling mechanics that do nothing but add rote memorization and practice to the game
Don't want you to take this the wrong way and start yet another argument, but i'm curious as to what games you play(ed)? or even just a steam id, I guess.
You've gotta be fucking kidding me. Shadowstep is uncounterable? Why do people research blink then? How come marines still win rounds?
I said that in reference to shadowstepping in directions you are not looking. Think about it. What on earth can a marine do with his aim to predict/track/counter a fade who abuses shadowstep by spamming it in random directions. What can he improve in his skillset in order to better fight it? Now imagine 3-4 fades in the same room doing that crap. It doesn't scale with counter balancing marine aim skill at all. I don't mean that shadowstep is 'uncounterable' in the sense of overall balance power. i.e. superman shotguns.
There are many reasons why people research blink and marines still win rounds. Among them -
a) Not everyone can be assed shadowstep spamming in random strafe/backward directions. It is unintuitive.
b) People research blink because you can't go up/down with shadowstep, it has no cd, and there is more freedom of movement. It is more intuitive
But... you can shadowstep in more directions now than you used to be able to, and many of them are much more unpredictable (i.e. look down, press S+shadowstep, you go straight up into the air backwards)
When you see a fade shadowstep, you have a split second to recognize the direction it's traveling in, but as soon as you know the direction it's moving you know where it's going to be when the shadowstep ends. Isn't the BT version more of an instant teleport? Doesn't that make it much less predictable than the live version?
You've gotta be fucking kidding me. Shadowstep is uncounterable? Why do people research blink then? How come marines still win rounds?
I said that in reference to shadowstepping in directions you are not looking. Think about it. What on earth can a marine do with his aim to predict/track/counter a fade who abuses shadowstep by spamming it in random directions. What can he improve in his skillset in order to better fight it? Now imagine 3-4 fades in the same room doing that crap. It doesn't scale with counter balancing marine aim skill at all. I don't mean that shadowstep is 'uncounterable' in the sense of overall balance power. i.e. superman shotguns.
There are many reasons why people research blink and marines still win rounds. Among them -
a) Not everyone can be assed shadowstep spamming in random strafe/backward directions. It is unintuitive.
b) People research blink because you can't go up/down with shadowstep, it has no cd, and there is more freedom of movement. It is more intuitive
you do realize that shadowstep has an effective range, right? Good marines position themselves in ways, using a combination of covers, walls, and distance to properly counter that.
Also, the current BT shadow step cannot move diagnoally, so it adds vertical movement, but gets rid of a lot of its nuances by only allowing four directions on a plane.
I don't believe it's ever going to "come out". It's a place for them to introduce new functionality to have people play test it on a wider scale than the in-house play-testing. The semi-recent arms lab price changes were tested and proved good in this mod, thus allowing them to confidently put it into the actual game.
I don't believe it's ever going to "come out". It's a place for them to introduce new functionality to have people play test it on a wider scale than the in-house play-testing. The semi-recent arms lab price changes were tested and proved good in this mod, thus allowing them to confidently put it into the actual game.
That's nice and all, but the game's player count keeps decreasing. A radically game altering balance patch 2 years after release usually isn't a good idea.
But... you can shadowstep in more directions now than you used to be able to, and many of them are much more unpredictable (i.e. look down, press S+shadowstep, you go straight up into the air backwards)
When you see a fade shadowstep, you have a split second to recognize the direction it's traveling in, but as soon as you know the direction it's moving you know where it's going to be when the shadowstep ends. Isn't the BT version more of an instant teleport? Doesn't that make it much less predictable than the live version?
you do realize that shadowstep has an effective range, right? Good marines position themselves in ways, using a combination of covers, walls, and distance to properly counter that.
Also, the current BT shadow step cannot move diagnoally, so it adds vertical movement, but gets rid of a lot of its nuances by only allowing four directions on a plane.
As far as i'm concerned, the discussion was bhop/blink vs shadowstep as primary movement methods. I'm not going to be drawn into irrelevant, unproductive rabbit holes comparing live shadowstep to bt shadowstep. They are both the same mechanic idea. Implemented differently yes, and showing the difficulty with trying to get a viable shadowstep design at all.
I can't resist however in pointing out how very wrong you are about an 'effective range' on live shadowstep. As for 'cover' and 'walls', surely I don't need to remind the grandmaster of mechanical fade about such things as air control.
I don't believe it's ever going to "come out". It's a place for them to introduce new functionality to have people play test it on a wider scale than the in-house play-testing. The semi-recent arms lab price changes were tested and proved good in this mod, thus allowing them to confidently put it into the actual game.
That's nice and all, but the game's player count keeps decreasing. A radically game altering balance patch 2 years after release usually isn't a good idea.
You mean ~7 months, not 2 years. Alpha/beta does not count when discussing player counts.
I don't believe it's ever going to "come out". It's a place for them to introduce new functionality to have people play test it on a wider scale than the in-house play-testing. The semi-recent arms lab price changes were tested and proved good in this mod, thus allowing them to confidently put it into the actual game.
That's nice and all, but the game's player count keeps decreasing. A radically game altering balance patch 2 years after release usually isn't a good idea.
You mean ~7 months, not 2 years. Alpha/beta does not count when discussing player counts.
he has a point though. People dont like big changes that arent vast improvements, especially if those changes solve some issues yet bring about new issues. This new fade movement needs to be done right, otherwise your gonna put people off.
I don't believe it's ever going to "come out". It's a place for them to introduce new functionality to have people play test it on a wider scale than the in-house play-testing. The semi-recent arms lab price changes were tested and proved good in this mod, thus allowing them to confidently put it into the actual game.
That's nice and all, but the game's player count keeps decreasing. A radically game altering balance patch 2 years after release usually isn't a good idea.
I've yet to see anyone who says this come up with an idea about how to increase the player count without changing anything.
As far as i'm concerned, the discussion was bhop/blink vs shadowstep as primary movement methods. I'm not going to be drawn into irrelevant, unproductive rabbit holes comparing live shadowstep to bt shadowstep. They are both the same mechanic idea. Implemented differently yes, and showing the difficulty with trying to get a viable shadowstep design at all.
Wait... what? Why is the fade moving predictably out of combat even relevant? If you're out of combat, then you're not getting shot at, so you're not going to be moving unpredictably anyways...
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2013
Had a few games just now with very bad fps in each. I think umbra and structure spam encouragement via the biomass system is the wrong way to go in terms of performance.
I do not like the biomass for structures change, it makes aliens not even care about hives after a certain point. Also, the RT changes were extremely frustrating to play with, as every extractor that gets attacked almost always dies, and constantly having to attempt to zone aliens and rebuild them just doesnt work well, leading to you loosing more extractors.
As for fps improvements and other issues, those are not the mods place to fix. They should not even be a part of this discussion in any way, baring the mod changing something that causes a massive fps drop (usually a bug). Also, both the powergrid and infestation systems are mostly off limits for change, so either factor that into your discussion, or dont even bother.
Comments
Idk that sounds like relying on an upgrade to make a lifeform balanced / viable / easier to learn.
I agree @neoken
1) BT mod fade is going to be much more obtuse for beginners. Nobody is going to understand how to move around intuitively.
2) I have yet to see any proof of there being anything remotely resembling a higher skill ceiling for the BT fade. As probably the best mechanical fade in ns2, all I feel is completely gimped because of the complete lack of energy and how much weaker shadowstep (a much stronger and deeper combat ability than blink) is. Blink suffers from problems because it only lets you travel in the direction you are looking. This causes fundamental depth issues with regards to melee vs. ranged combat, and is one of the reasons playing lerk is so much easier (and simpler) than playing fade at a high level mechanically.
3) If you aren't taking full advantage of all the energy a fade has to offer in vanilla then you probably aren't qualified to talk about it at a higher level. There are some techniques that are very energy intensive and certainly require quite a bit of energy management.
Khamm was placing cyst in nearby room and patches of infestation would spread though walls into really secured room, killing our structures.
i also play with marines that are mechanically much better than anyone on archaea, but that's a point for another day
What am i reading. Best mechanically inefficient fade in NS2?
BT fade uses the same, if not less energy than live, and shorter distance shadowstep actually increases potential player control. You are way off buddy.
Also, i'm glad to see you've completely mastered how to abuse shadowstepping in directions you arn't looking in. Gee, it must take alot of skill to press a button and instantly move in a completely unpredictable, uncounterable way. l33t dodging pr0
You totes need to upload some vids of you and your mechanical-ing pals so us scrubbies can learn 2 mechanical. Don't be selfish bro, share the mechanicalz!
I mean it would certainly make it easier to track targets if the lerk got his parasite back, but it's not like lerk isn't already viable/balanced without it. Unless it got hit with the nerf bat super hard or something. But the only difference I really felt was that it's a lot slower now... it seemed like it was just as powerful though. Granted I haven't played against anyone that was very good yet, the BT servers have been full of mostly trolls/rookies when I've played. I finally got into a server with some good players the other day, but it was a german server and I was having major ping issues
Not to mention I've seen shade hive first like like 90% of the matches anyways, people love that phantom upgrade.
You've gotta be fucking kidding me. Shadowstep is uncounterable? Why do people research blink then? How come marines still win rounds?
I'll wait for a video showcasing BT fade's great combat depth, instead of showcasing arbitrary traveling mechanics that do nothing but add rote memorization and practice to the game
Don't want you to take this the wrong way and start yet another argument, but i'm curious as to what games you play(ed)? or even just a steam id, I guess.
a++ forum drama doe
There are many reasons why people research blink and marines still win rounds. Among them -
a) Not everyone can be assed shadowstep spamming in random strafe/backward directions. It is unintuitive.
b) People research blink because you can't go up/down with shadowstep, it has no cd, and there is more freedom of movement. It is more intuitive
When you see a fade shadowstep, you have a split second to recognize the direction it's traveling in, but as soon as you know the direction it's moving you know where it's going to be when the shadowstep ends. Isn't the BT version more of an instant teleport? Doesn't that make it much less predictable than the live version?
Also, the current BT shadow step cannot move diagnoally, so it adds vertical movement, but gets rid of a lot of its nuances by only allowing four directions on a plane.
This topic has been going on for months.
I don't believe it's ever going to "come out". It's a place for them to introduce new functionality to have people play test it on a wider scale than the in-house play-testing. The semi-recent arms lab price changes were tested and proved good in this mod, thus allowing them to confidently put it into the actual game.
That's nice and all, but the game's player count keeps decreasing. A radically game altering balance patch 2 years after release usually isn't a good idea.
I can't resist however in pointing out how very wrong you are about an 'effective range' on live shadowstep. As for 'cover' and 'walls', surely I don't need to remind the grandmaster of mechanical fade about such things as air control.
You mean ~7 months, not 2 years. Alpha/beta does not count when discussing player counts.
he has a point though. People dont like big changes that arent vast improvements, especially if those changes solve some issues yet bring about new issues. This new fade movement needs to be done right, otherwise your gonna put people off.
I've yet to see anyone who says this come up with an idea about how to increase the player count without changing anything.
Wait... what? Why is the fade moving predictably out of combat even relevant? If you're out of combat, then you're not getting shot at, so you're not going to be moving unpredictably anyways...
As for fps improvements and other issues, those are not the mods place to fix. They should not even be a part of this discussion in any way, baring the mod changing something that causes a massive fps drop (usually a bug). Also, both the powergrid and infestation systems are mostly off limits for change, so either factor that into your discussion, or dont even bother.