Remove like/dislike/flag
|strofix|
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
These like/dislike/flag options add absolutely nothing to the forum, and are creating a nasty side affect of biasing everyone reading a thread.
Currently, someone will make a thread based on a particular opinion, and then they will simply proceed to like or awesome every single post thereafter that agrees with the original premise. They will also proceed to dislike, or even flag every post which does not agree with it. After a while, you will have posts which have 100 dislikes from random and usually angry and aggressive forum goers, and everyone who sees the post after that will automatically assume that its incorrect or stupid due to the dislikes.
An even more worrying side affect is moderators attempting to "moderate by like". Recently I had a moderator issue me a warning purely based on the number of flags I had received in a thread. He didn't even bother to read the posts themselves that were being flagged, and merely assumed that since I was being flagged, he could bypass doing all that work and issue a warning based purely on that. Little did he know that the flags consisted of about 5 people who systematically troll flagged every single post I had made in the thread, regardless of what opinion it expressed. I even had multiple troll and dislike flags on purely inquisitive question posts, which boggles my mind.
Here is my suggestion:
1) Keep likes. Positive reinforcement is fine and dandy, and if a post gets enough likes, chances are it deserves them. Remove awesomes, they serve no purpose past like.
2) Remove dislikes. Negativity has absolutely no place in an open discussion forum. If an opinion expressed by someone else does not agree with your own personal opinion, then you may express your disagreements in a post, or simply accept their opinion and move on. A dislike is basically like saying "no you are wrong, and I don't care to explain why", which as I said, has no place in a forum for discussion.
3) Keep flags, but do not make them visible. First of all, posters should not know who is flagging their posts, it should be anonymous. Secondly, the only person who should be notified as to an abusive or trolling post is a moderator, then the moderator can examine the flagged post and determine the correct course of action.
Currently, someone will make a thread based on a particular opinion, and then they will simply proceed to like or awesome every single post thereafter that agrees with the original premise. They will also proceed to dislike, or even flag every post which does not agree with it. After a while, you will have posts which have 100 dislikes from random and usually angry and aggressive forum goers, and everyone who sees the post after that will automatically assume that its incorrect or stupid due to the dislikes.
An even more worrying side affect is moderators attempting to "moderate by like". Recently I had a moderator issue me a warning purely based on the number of flags I had received in a thread. He didn't even bother to read the posts themselves that were being flagged, and merely assumed that since I was being flagged, he could bypass doing all that work and issue a warning based purely on that. Little did he know that the flags consisted of about 5 people who systematically troll flagged every single post I had made in the thread, regardless of what opinion it expressed. I even had multiple troll and dislike flags on purely inquisitive question posts, which boggles my mind.
Here is my suggestion:
1) Keep likes. Positive reinforcement is fine and dandy, and if a post gets enough likes, chances are it deserves them. Remove awesomes, they serve no purpose past like.
2) Remove dislikes. Negativity has absolutely no place in an open discussion forum. If an opinion expressed by someone else does not agree with your own personal opinion, then you may express your disagreements in a post, or simply accept their opinion and move on. A dislike is basically like saying "no you are wrong, and I don't care to explain why", which as I said, has no place in a forum for discussion.
3) Keep flags, but do not make them visible. First of all, posters should not know who is flagging their posts, it should be anonymous. Secondly, the only person who should be notified as to an abusive or trolling post is a moderator, then the moderator can examine the flagged post and determine the correct course of action.
Comments
"Flag" should be hidden, moderator only. It should also REQUIRE a text discription be filled in for why you are flagging that post. Improperly flagging a post can result in administrative action against the flagger.
What Agree and Disagree do is add weight to an opinion without having to add a useless "agree" post. Simply posting that you agree with an idea or opinion or posting a QFT or anything along the reverse with no NEW supporting information only serves to clutter up the forums.
In all seriousness, mods should be reading the posts before removing, and I think most of them do...
I actually went through his history to find what he was talking about and found this:
I lost a lot of faith in the mods here when I read that comment, especially having been in the thread that generated most of those troll reports that aren't actually even trolling. Sure, that particular post MIGHT have been trolling badly, I don't know, but the comment that was put in its place was disturbing.
Also: Lets people know that most of their posts are just trollish.
Should it alert the mods to trolls? Yes. Should it influence the moderators? Of course not, the content should.
How about something like this. Every forum goer gets 2 likes and 2 dislikes per hour, which they can use as they like. An awesome will use up both likes, and flags are infinite, but only viewable by mods. That way people won't simply click agree on a post that merely agrees with a post they made earlier. They may save up the agree and disagree points for posts which truly stand out in one way or another. This wouldn't stack up over multiple hours though, they would just be refreshed.
Actually I think there might be a bit of an issue conflating Disagree with Dislike. They are not the same thing at all really.
This deserves some discussion.
Its a slap on the wrist, for not contributing to the discussions, but deliberate trolling to provoke angry replys. And since its not a timeout or a tempban, i think i took the correct actions.
Maybe if half your posts were not flame baiting, trolling, worthless content you would hate it less.
I didn't even read your OP; just your title.
Post redacted. If you want to discuss the moderation with GISP, do so through PM, not publicly on the forum. - Angelusz
Ignoring your current situation.
The agree/disagree/awesome/flag options are convenient. Instead of inflating a threads post count, with "+1" or quoting text, I can click agree. The same goes for disagree and awesome. They will be misused by some, just like players misuse the forum; trolling, spamming, abuse. It will be a burden, for the mods to sort out, however it looks easy to navigate through and is very well designed.
Disagree means disagree. If you want to know why, message them, or request an explanation. A player may disagree with your opinion and agree with another players opinion; so they don't need to post.
Why would you want to hide flags? I'd argue they be used more recklessly if hidden.
How so?
At the moment, users are using them as the opposite of an "awesome", the next level after a dislike. They use it simply to show their extreme disagreement with a post. If they knew that nobody else would see the flag, not even the user being flagged, then most people would have absolutely no reason to do it. Its misuse would return to zero basically.
Or, by all means keep visible flags, but then lets get some proper moderation. If someone flags a post, then a moderator should examine the post. If the moderator deems that the post was flagged correctly, then the post should be edited accordingly, and the poster warned. However, if the moderator finds that the post was flagged without reason, every person who flagged the post should be given an equally stern warning.
Incorrectly flagging a post as abusive or trolling should be as much of an offense as making an abusive or trolling post.
I think this misuse of flagging stems from the moderators inability to enforce rules. What moderators should be doing is ignoring all content, and merely be enforcing the rules. No posting threads in the wrong forum, no abusive language, no baiting, no spamming. That's all they should be addressing.
Instead what you find is the moderators typically ignore those infractions altogether, and listen only to popular opinion. The only thing the majority of the moderators are currently addressing is unpopular opinions.
*get shocked that people disagree
*post troll threads
*get shocked for getting flagged for trolling
*get moderated
*shout bias and spam
Dude, just stop posting. Didn't you get the hint already?
If no one else will see the flag (except the mods), no need to worry about accurately marking post. No need to worry about the accused reviewing who's marking them as a troll/abuser/spam and whether the marks are valid.
Going by your reply, your big issues is with something else. Something that should be address in private.
I don't understand.
If no one else will see the flags other than the only people capable of taking action against people who flag incorrectly, why concern yourself with flagging correctly?
No need to worry about someone who has absolutely no power finding out who is flagging his posts incorrectly?
I don't follow at all.
Right now it's kind of hard to classify a long post with some good and some bonkers stuff in it. I don't know if it's a possibility, but maybe you could even tag just a paragraph with agree or disagree.
Also, I kind of loathe how people can hide behind the dislike button without having to argue even the slightest. I remember getting some disagree from a post I didn't even know to have any particularly debatable or subjective things in it.
Are they hiding behind the button or, like you suggested, dislike a paragraph of what you said?
Moving on, a post with 5 or so agrees turned blue and while I haven’t seen a post get over 5 "awesomes" yet, I'm assuming this is the same?
By hiding behind a button I meant about a getting dislike without explanation for a post with 4 sentences and no clarity at all on where it even was particularly subjective. That's kind of begging for a brief explanation at least.
If they disagree with a part, they can easily follow up with a post where they quote that part. That's not the problem. The problem I've got is that people choose not to follow up with anything, a dislike on its own has pretty much zero information unless there's something obvious about the reasoning.
The two points I have are:
1.) There's nothing that forces people to give even the slightest hint of what they disagree. Requiring (or allowing) even a bunch of words of explanation often makes a pretty big difference.
2.) The flags are also very ambiguous for longer posts. You can certainly break the post into multiple quotes on your response, but you're still not able to leave any precise feedback on the original post itself. This makes a mixed post really hard to rate.
Does that clarify anything on what I'm after?
No, seriously. I can hardly tell the agree smiley apart from the disagree one. Make them more distinct!
Also I think that they serve a good purpose, because they remove those ridiculous content-free post counter whoring "replies" that contain less words than an average signature, just because someone wanted to state his/her agreement/disagreement.
Yup, stating your dis/agreement is nicely shown by at the buttom of each post
I either feel very sorry for the mods who have to sift through all the false flags, or I am worried that we have lost any method of meaningfully flagging toxic content.
Drop the sarcasm please. - GISP
Strofix makes a valid point here. The flag as troll button has been and will continue to be abused by a minority. When you've not actually posted anything remotely trolling and someone flags your post, it doesn't exactly give you a nice warm feeling. It's happened twice to me so far, and I really object to this. What I'm trying to do on these forums is be helpful where I can, to learn about the game, and to see if there's any other way I can contribute to the community.
I personally feel that there is a disproportionate negative impact from the actions of a small minority who don't respect the potential value that this system can bring.
Or maybe I'm just too sensitive. Except, in a community, it's important to respect everyone, whether they care less than or more than you about anything. This is why we have, and need, mods!