AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=2061465:date=Jan 17 2013, 05:07 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jan 17 2013, 05:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorges were too defenseless before IMO, it was silly that a gorge was doomed 100% of the time against one vanilla marine, often even with hydras on his side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NONE SHALL SAVE THE GORGIES ON MY VENDETTA TO KILL THE LITTLE FREAKING ######S I HATE THEM I HATE THEM ALL i also love them BUT I HATE THEM ALL KILL THEM WITH FIRE!
<!--quoteo(post=2061701:date=Jan 16 2013, 06:10 PM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 16 2013, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where's my $50, ya'll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about a congratulations on discovering cause and effect. :P
Can we AT LEAST have 1 week go by before we make our final decision on Gorge Spit? I was really excited about it from a MARINES point of view.
Gorges have never really been a threat in a 1v1 fight in the beginning of a match. Didn't you ever feel slightly punished for spending 10 PRes on a Gorge? You gave up a lot of offensive ability for Clogs and Hydras, which if used to their upmost potential, gave a single marine a headache at most. Now that spit is actually USEFUL, we're gonna see some really cool Gorge plays and holds.
Yes, I agree that 40 damage is a lot, especially in the early game, but spit isnt hard to dodge. The improved Hitreg just means you cant just take 1 step to the left or 1 step to the right to completely avoid a spit missile. Combined with the Blinding attribute, it really helps serve the Gorge to be a support unit in the middle of fights. Blind the Marines, HealSpray your Skulks. More engaging play? Yes please.
If this continues to be an issue for the overall population of Marines/Players, then a slight damage nerf or some more transparency to the spits blind will put it in a good spot, IMO. The QQ is just gonna be heavy right now because players are so used to rolling a solo Gorge. Now its actually gonna take some effort to stay alive while fighting a Gorge.
P.S. The hitreg adjustment for Skulks on Walls/Ceilings has already been noticed. Awesome, UWE. :D
I think the problem with the whole 'Gorge is OP' thing, is that there's no precedent as to how powerful a gorge should be (apart from maybe ns1), as until now gorge spit has only been able to hit stationary targets with any kind of consistency. Sure, gorge is supposed to be primarily a support class, so logically it shouldn't be TOO powerful, but we still don't know just how much the developers actually intend for it to be able to defend itself, because until now, it could barely even do that at all.
<!--quoteo(post=2061756:date=Jan 16 2013, 06:27 PM:name=d0ped0g)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (d0ped0g @ Jan 16 2013, 06:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the problem with the whole 'Gorge is OP' thing, is that there's no precedent as to how powerful a gorge should be (apart from maybe ns1), as until now gorge spit has only been able to hit stationary targets with any kind of consistency. Sure, gorge is supposed to be primarily a support class, so logically it shouldn't be TOO powerful, but we still don't know just how much the developers actually intend for it to be able to defend itself, because until now, it could barely even do that at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a prepare gorge (hydras, clog, a plan) should be decent to strong, vs marines. An unprepared gorge, vs incoming marines, should be a dead pig sliding.
Also, everyone called this; Gorges being really strong with hit reg "fix". I liked the way gorges were before. It was still possible to kill, especially if the target got close.
Wait a week, for word to get around, and see if the complaints hold up.
I don't know what is happening to the game (stealth changes?) but I'm enjoying marines less and less. I used to comm A LOT and win A LOT (marines), even with bad teams, because of good map awareness on my part. Even while not "comming" I play constantly with map up to check stuffs and I'm very annoying with a jet.
That said, few days ago I saw a GORGE RUSH, 3 gorges using healing spit (or w/e its called) and they killed a base, alternating between the healing spit (damages marines and heal themselves) and bile bomb (which for some reason seems OP as ###### now, power nodes go down in SECONDS you can't even react).
Gorge + lerk with spores = GG, you can't do ###### and you will die. Sentries = useless as always. And now gorge costs 10 res!!! OMG!! (it used to be 20 right?)
Basically ALL GAMES that get a 2nd hive up in an acceptable timing (thus having no shortage of eggs) wins. I was having a blast few weeks ago, but not sure what happened, maybe people got more skilled and I'm too old for this :(
<!--quoteo(post=2061707:date=Jan 17 2013, 02:15 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Jan 17 2013, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NONE SHALL SAVE THE GORGIES ON MY VENDETTA TO KILL THE LITTLE FREAKING ######S I HATE THEM I HATE THEM ALL i also love them BUT I HATE THEM ALL KILL THEM WITH FIRE!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But why do so many in this thread want to nerf and kill the little gorgies :( Leave them alone and let them spit on you, it is very <i>fair</i>! :)
see you on steam ; D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:-D lol.
On topic I think they should wait a week before hitting the poor gorge with the nerf stick. And if the nerf must happen, just try the no blinding nerf first. Being blinded is not really a fun mechanic.
On topic I think they should wait a week before hitting the poor gorge with the nerf stick. And if the nerf must happen, just try the no blinding nerf first. Being blinded is not really a fun mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh yea? Tell that to Left 4 Dead!
<!--quoteo(post=2061792:date=Jan 16 2013, 09:41 PM:name=MrDarkz0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrDarkz0r @ Jan 16 2013, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And now gorge costs 10 res!!! OMG!! (it used to be 20 right?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They were always 10 res.
get away from the gorge and it won't kill you in 4 shots? I doubt the gorge will chase you down unless its near end game anyways.
A gorge shouldn't be able to kill a marine but a marine should be able to kill a gorge? Why is that fair? Simply because it heals and builds its automatically a support unit that should be absolutely defenseless?
Fine: tone down the damage, The gorge rush with hydras can/should be adjusted, but don't talk about the gorge needing to be defenseless or non-lethal.
<!--quoteo(post=2061869:date=Jan 17 2013, 05:06 PM:name=Afterhours)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afterhours @ Jan 17 2013, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061869"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe UWE could implement a Riot Shield type item for the Marines that they can buy from an Armory for 5-10 Res, or make it free with an Armory.
Equipping a Riot Shield would make you drop your Rifle, but you can 1 hand the Shield, while wielding the Pistol. -shrugs-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Leave this conversation to the big boys
Buff heal by about 10%, increase crags/hydras by 10/3 for each hive up, allow gorge mini cysts to help comms secure RTs a bit better, new 4th hive ability let gorges fly at half the speed of lerks they should be in a good position, increase bile range as well, the cast distance.
I haven't had the chance to try the new Gorge spit, but I'm about to go do that. However, if it becomes apparent that the spit is a bit crazy for a support unit, then I would like to see hydras become useful for once. Strafing should not make hydras completely useless. Then a Gorge might be able to defend himself even with nerfed spit.
It looks like hydras might have gotten the same fix as the spit, they seem to be hitting with some regularity now. It looks like they also have damage numbers popping up, is this new or did my hydras literally never hit while onscreen before?
Great update! Now I can finally be a tiny bit more aggressive against marines with my Gorge. Also I didn't have any problems killing gorges last night.
<!--quoteo(post=2061927:date=Jan 17 2013, 03:24 AM:name=sotanaht)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sotanaht @ Jan 17 2013, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It looks like hydras might have gotten the same fix as the spit, they seem to be hitting with some regularity now. It looks like they also have damage numbers popping up, is this new or did my hydras literally never hit while onscreen before?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hydras still have the same problem. Gorge spit has definitely increased in speed, making it much more reliable... but Gorges still die easily to a little gunfire.
Of course, I like the place Gorge spit is in. It's not reliable enough to solo a batch of marines on your own, but you can definitely defend yourself. The only way I'd support a nerf to it at this point is if hydras got a buff in return (able to hit things, even if they're strafing).
I just got my arse handed to my by a decent marine, so I see no issue with it. Seems just more inline with marine performance, if you can hit what you're shooting at, you get good results. If you can't, you die.
Gorges don't have too much health, they're fat and slow and have no special movement abilities (beyond trading slowness for lack of turning ability for a few seconds). A couple of marines should have no trouble chasing one down and killing it.
After playing for while as both marine and as gorge after this update, i do think spit is a tad OP, nothing major but something should probably be done to turn it slightly down.
As i say i don't think its a massive issue, but either a damage Nerf, say 30 instead of 40, or even a reduction in fire rate would solve the problem i feel.
Hydras also seem to be more effective as others have mentioned, though that may just be a side effect of the gorge being more effective at dealing more damage, as it makes it easier for hydras to finish of the marines, either way i like it, using hydras actually feels useful now.
This only issue I have with it after playing last night is the blinding effect. I can live with the damage that it does as long as I can see to be able to dodge and aim.
Just add glancing damage to spit like everything else, so if the spit only hit partially it does less damage! </troll> On a more serious note, what about adding gravity to spit like bile bomb so that a gorge can't snipe miles away, and then have it so the gorge can "charge" his spit making it shoot farther and do increased damage. Still I agree with the comments on this thread saying any real judgement should be reserved for a bit later.
love how some are being obnoxious without reading more.....
the issue is NOT that a gorge may down a marine 1v1. the issue is not that a gorge is now 'able to defend itself'.
the issue is that for their health and healing, if 3 or 4 gorges rush the marine base at the very beginning of a game spamming spit and heal spray, between the damage and blind they will frequently massacre the marines, while 4 marines focusfiring one of said gorges will liekly not quite manage to kill it before they start dropping like flies. this is without considering skulks in with the group. seen it happen more than once since the patch.
past early-game, there is no issue whatsoever with the gorge. no one *in their right mind...* is calling for a huge nerfstick thwacking to the gorge, simply some minor tweak somewhere to make gorges not 'OMGWTFBBQ!' in combat effectiveness when grouped early game
Comments
Armor 2 rines will need 240/40 = 6 spits to be killed
Armor 3 rines , 280/40 = 7 spits
Not to mention how easy it gets to kill gorges with jetpacks, shotguns/GLs.
NONE SHALL SAVE THE GORGIES ON MY VENDETTA TO KILL THE LITTLE
FREAKING
######S
I HATE THEM
I HATE THEM ALL
i also love them
BUT I HATE THEM ALL
KILL THEM WITH FIRE!
How about a congratulations on discovering cause and effect. :P
<img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/24ecns9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Gorges have never really been a threat in a 1v1 fight in the beginning of a match. Didn't you ever feel slightly punished for spending 10 PRes on a Gorge? You gave up a lot of offensive ability for Clogs and Hydras, which if used to their upmost potential, gave a single marine a headache at most. Now that spit is actually USEFUL, we're gonna see some really cool Gorge plays and holds.
Yes, I agree that 40 damage is a lot, especially in the early game, but spit isnt hard to dodge. The improved Hitreg just means you cant just take 1 step to the left or 1 step to the right to completely avoid a spit missile. Combined with the Blinding attribute, it really helps serve the Gorge to be a support unit in the middle of fights. Blind the Marines, HealSpray your Skulks. More engaging play? Yes please.
If this continues to be an issue for the overall population of Marines/Players, then a slight damage nerf or some more transparency to the spits blind will put it in a good spot, IMO. The QQ is just gonna be heavy right now because players are so used to rolling a solo Gorge. Now its actually gonna take some effort to stay alive while fighting a Gorge.
P.S. The hitreg adjustment for Skulks on Walls/Ceilings has already been noticed. Awesome, UWE. :D
you! godam troll...
see you on steam ; D
I think a prepare gorge (hydras, clog, a plan) should be decent to strong, vs marines. An unprepared gorge, vs incoming marines, should be a dead pig sliding.
Also, everyone called this; Gorges being really strong with hit reg "fix". I liked the way gorges were before. It was still possible to kill, especially if the target got close.
Wait a week, for word to get around, and see if the complaints hold up.
I used to comm A LOT and win A LOT (marines), even with bad teams, because of good map awareness on my part. Even while not "comming" I play constantly with map up to check stuffs and I'm very annoying with a jet.
That said, few days ago I saw a GORGE RUSH, 3 gorges using healing spit (or w/e its called) and they killed a base, alternating between the healing spit (damages marines and heal themselves) and bile bomb (which for some reason seems OP as ###### now, power nodes go down in SECONDS you can't even react).
Gorge + lerk with spores = GG, you can't do ###### and you will die.
Sentries = useless as always.
And now gorge costs 10 res!!! OMG!! (it used to be 20 right?)
Basically ALL GAMES that get a 2nd hive up in an acceptable timing (thus having no shortage of eggs) wins.
I was having a blast few weeks ago, but not sure what happened, maybe people got more skilled and I'm too old for this :(
FREAKING
######S
I HATE THEM
I HATE THEM ALL
i also love them
BUT I HATE THEM ALL
KILL THEM WITH FIRE!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But why do so many in this thread want to nerf and kill the little gorgies :( Leave them alone and let them spit on you, it is very <i>fair</i>! :)
<img src="http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/065/a/5/NS2_Gorge___cute_version_by_kyliegirl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://kyliegirl.deviantart.com/art/NS2-Gorge-cute-version-156355275" target="_blank">http://kyliegirl.deviantart.com/art/NS2-Go...rsion-156355275</a>
see you on steam ; D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:-D lol.
On topic I think they should wait a week before hitting the poor gorge with the nerf stick.
And if the nerf must happen, just try the no blinding nerf first. Being blinded is not really a fun mechanic.
On topic I think they should wait a week before hitting the poor gorge with the nerf stick.
And if the nerf must happen, just try the no blinding nerf first. Being blinded is not really a fun mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yea? Tell that to Left 4 Dead!
They were always 10 res.
A gorge shouldn't be able to kill a marine but a marine should be able to kill a gorge? Why is that fair? Simply because it heals and builds its automatically a support unit that should be absolutely defenseless?
Fine: tone down the damage, The gorge rush with hydras can/should be adjusted, but don't talk about the gorge needing to be defenseless or non-lethal.
Equipping a Riot Shield would make you drop your Rifle, but you can 1 hand the Shield, while wielding the Pistol. -shrugs-
Equipping a Riot Shield would make you drop your Rifle, but you can 1 hand the Shield, while wielding the Pistol. -shrugs-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leave this conversation to the big boys
Hydras still have the same problem. Gorge spit has definitely increased in speed, making it much more reliable... but Gorges still die easily to a little gunfire.
Of course, I like the place Gorge spit is in. It's not reliable enough to solo a batch of marines on your own, but you can definitely defend yourself. The only way I'd support a nerf to it at this point is if hydras got a buff in return (able to hit things, even if they're strafing).
OMG
OMG
OMG
Gorges don't have too much health, they're fat and slow and have no special movement abilities (beyond trading slowness for lack of turning ability for a few seconds). A couple of marines should have no trouble chasing one down and killing it.
As i say i don't think its a massive issue, but either a damage Nerf, say 30 instead of 40, or even a reduction in fire rate would solve the problem i feel.
Hydras also seem to be more effective as others have mentioned, though that may just be a side effect of the gorge being more effective at dealing more damage, as it makes it easier for hydras to finish of the marines, either way i like it, using hydras actually feels useful now.
Pfft, Left 4 Dead needs to be told a lot! I have rarely been so disappointed with a game. It can't hold a welder to NS2.
On a more serious note, what about adding gravity to spit like bile bomb so that a gorge can't snipe miles away, and then have it so the gorge can "charge" his spit making it shoot farther and do increased damage.
Still I agree with the comments on this thread saying any real judgement should be reserved for a bit later.
the issue is NOT that a gorge may down a marine 1v1. the issue is not that a gorge is now 'able to defend itself'.
the issue is that for their health and healing, if 3 or 4 gorges rush the marine base at the very beginning of a game spamming spit and heal spray, between the damage and blind they will frequently massacre the marines, while 4 marines focusfiring one of said gorges will liekly not quite manage to kill it before they start dropping like flies. this is without considering skulks in with the group. seen it happen more than once since the patch.
past early-game, there is no issue whatsoever with the gorge. no one *in their right mind...* is calling for a huge nerfstick thwacking to the gorge, simply some minor tweak somewhere to make gorges not 'OMGWTFBBQ!' in combat effectiveness when grouped early game