Gorge spit is overpowered

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  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    They can balance the gorge by making him 5 times as big and making him cost 75, then renaming him to the Gorgezilla.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    They can balance the spit damage by giving marines hmgs.
  • TroubleshooterTroubleshooter Join Date: 2012-11-15 Member: 171559Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2061525:date=Jan 16 2013, 09:06 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Jan 16 2013, 09:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They can balance the gorge by making him 5 times as big and making him cost 75, then renaming him to the Gorgezilla.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd like to see it belly slide xD
  • KilledByDeathKilledByDeath Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176308Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2061506:date=Jan 16 2013, 12:39 PM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 16 2013, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the gorge is a support unit, it should be supporting other units, not soloing marines. If it is a support unit, and there are no actual combat units nearby, it deserves death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Macs now send out an electric zap that deals 40 damage and blinds aliens.

    What? Before even a single shulk could kill it it's fair right?!
  • MMZ_TorakMMZ_Torak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3770Members
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2061506:date=Jan 16 2013, 02:39 PM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 16 2013, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the gorge is a support unit, it should be supporting other units, not soloing marines. If it is a support unit, and there are no actual combat units nearby, it deserves death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No reason that a gorge should not be able to solo a single marine; however, a lone gorge should not be able to solo marine<i><b>s</b></i> though.<u></u>
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    I'd say a lifeform that costs 20 res and has 150 health and 70 armor should be able to kill a level 0 marine with 100 health and 30 armor and probably 2 of them really. It takes 290 damage to kill a gorge which is roughly 29 bullets, not that hard given the size and speed of a gorge. On the other hand the gorge only has to hit 4 spits on a level 0 marine. It may be a little off honestly as far as damage needing a slight tweak to something more like 30 per hit so it's 6 hits to kill a marine. But no one marine that costs 0 res should be able to easily stomp a gorge.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2061540:date=Jan 16 2013, 12:37 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 16 2013, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->10 res, Davil<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Correction, 10 res.
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2061448:date=Jan 16 2013, 11:49 AM:name=Zoris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zoris @ Jan 16 2013, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Literally went 4v4 in a server as they alien team had 3 gorges and 1 alien.

    We couldn't kill one gorge due to humans having nothing at the beginning of the round. The whole enemy team had like 2 deaths to our defeat.

    Seriously needs to be fixed. Either give humans more bang at the beginning or reduce Gorge HP please :)

    I would pump 600 damage into one gorge and they would still live.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=2061515:date=Jan 16 2013, 01:47 PM:name=KaiAllardLiao)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KaiAllardLiao @ Jan 16 2013, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061515"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i was there in that match (my handle in-game is [Int]Ice)

    he speaks the truth. 3 gorges alternating spit and healspray at W0/A0 4v4 were eating us alive. 3 marines focusfire on one still couldnt kill it before we were all dead, mostly in part due to the blind coupled with the high damage. a single gorge is fine, and after upgrades for marines a rush of all gorges is fine. early game the damage + RoF + blind = just too much for right out of the gate. 3 gorges + 2 skulks would likely just obliterate at game start.

    don't get me wrong, i like gorges and their build/support/ect role, and agree they should have a bit of bite, but somethin hasta be tweaked on this front.

    suggestion to potentially fix without completely screwing gorge over: lower the rate of fire a bit for its huge damage and blind. then it STILL blinds, and still has nasty damage, but doesnt fire like a machine gun and needs to be aimed a bit more carefully<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Even before they fixed the spit, 3 gorges healing themselves were much harder to kill even for a group of marines especially if marines have w0.
    Want to know why? Because each gorges is healing itself plus 2 others and those two are doing the exact same thing so each gorge is getting roughly 3x the healing.
    So unless the marines are focusing their fire onto one singe gorge it's going to be tough to take them out.
  • KaiAllardLiaoKaiAllardLiao Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111800Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2061543:date=Jan 16 2013, 04:43 PM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Jan 16 2013, 04:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even before they fixed the spit, 3 gorges healing themselves were much harder to kill even for a group of marines especially if marines have w0.
    Want to know why? Because each gorges is healing itself plus 2 others and those two are doing the exact same thing so each gorge is getting roughly 3x the healing.
    So unless the marines are focusing their fire onto one singe gorge it's going to be tough to take them out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    that was just it. we WERE focus-firing on a single gorge. their rate of fire isn't super fast, but it IS fast enough that it just overwhelms considering it only needs 4 hits to kill that early

    i still think just lowering the RoF a bit will fix the issue. not a HUGE smack to it, just a wee bit
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Drop damage to 30 and remove effect on marines screen.
    Problem solved.

    and FYI I warned about this months ago in testing when it was increased to 40 damage.
  • TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Members, NS2 Map Tester
  • buhehebuhehe Join Date: 2012-05-15 Member: 152140Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2061543:date=Jan 16 2013, 09:43 PM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Jan 16 2013, 09:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even before they fixed the spit, 3 gorges healing themselves were much harder to kill even for a group of marines especially if marines have w0.
    Want to know why? Because each gorges is healing itself plus 2 others and those two are doing the exact same thing so each gorge is getting roughly 3x the healing.
    So unless the marines are focusing their fire onto one singe gorge it's going to be tough to take them out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, each gorge in a group of 3 gets way more than 3x his self healing.

    Self healing << healing others

    <i>From wiki:

    Heal Amount (player): 8 + 3% of max health
    Heal Amount (structure): 60
    Heal Amount (self): 8 x 0.5 = 4</i>

    Gorge A will selfheal for 4
    Gorge A will be healed by gorge B for 8 + 4.5 = 12.5 (I'm only using max health, not armor, so 3/100 * 150 = 4,5).


    With 3 gorges, every gorge will be healed by 2 gorges + self.

    2(12.5) + 4 = 29

    which is 7,25 times the amount of a single gorge selfhealing.
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Members
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2061568:date=Jan 16 2013, 03:25 PM:name=buhehe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (buhehe @ Jan 16 2013, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, each gorge in a group of 3 gets way more than 3x his self healing.

    Self healing << healing others

    <i>From wiki:

    Heal Amount (player): 8 + 3% of max health
    Heal Amount (structure): 60
    Heal Amount (self): 8 x 0.5 = 4</i>

    Gorge A will selfheal for 4
    Gorge A will be healed by gorge B for 8 + 4.5 = 12.5 (I'm only using max health, not armor, so 3/100 * 150 = 4,5).


    With 3 gorges, every gorge will be healed by 2 gorges + self.

    2(12.5) + 4 = 29

    which is 7,25 times the amount of a single gorge selfhealing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thanks for proving my point, I wanted to do the math but I'm lazy. ;)

    Edit: I read though the Wiki but wasn't sure of it's accuracy so that's why I said "roughly 3x", didn't know if there was a heal stack nerf.
  • Angry ChildAngry Child Join Date: 2012-12-05 Member: 174256Members
    I got plenty of damage in before they even fixed the hit reg for gorge spit, they really are not all that more dangerous, just more reliably able to punish you for doing stupid things like standing still while shooting and walking in straight lines.
  • TimariusTimarius Join Date: 2012-11-15 Member: 171220Members
    Just do the same thing you do to make hydras useless.

    Step to the left. Step to the right. Step to the left. Step to the right.

    You do the hokey pokey, and you gun that Gorge down.

    That's what it's all about.

    (Not that I'm happy with that, considering I love playing Gorges.)
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Just remove the stupid blinding effect. So dumb.
  • CanucckCanucck Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72987Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2061595:date=Jan 16 2013, 05:59 PM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Jan 16 2013, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just remove the stupid blinding effect. So dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1
  • GuspazGuspaz Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2862Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2061595:date=Jan 16 2013, 05:59 PM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Jan 16 2013, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just remove the stupid blinding effect. So dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But the blinding effect is necessary to help the Gorge get within huggle range so that he can share his happiness spray with you :)
  • GrissiGrissi Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20314Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited January 2013
    Just played a pcw vs duplex, got a real feeling for the gorge spit there.

    Gorge spit is over the top, marines have no chance to kill a gorge without constant medspam.

    1. Its really easy to hit with spit
    2. 40 damage by itself is really high, 4 hits marines. (3 without armor).
    3. Blinds the marine

    This is to effective for a 10 res lifeform, I have 2 suggestions for this.

    1. Drop gorge damage to 30 and remove the blinding.
    2. Drop the gorge damage to 20 and keep the blinding effect.

    Myself I think nr.1 is better, having a blinding attack on a low res lifeform might always cause issues in the long run.
  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I kill gorges just like I used to. Now they hurt me a bit as I pummel their guts out of them.

    Working as intended.
  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Members
    OR, better yet, since no one has mentioned this, make the gorge spit deplete more energy. Done!

    This will also solidify the choices of making your gorge a quick, fleeing coward with celerity (not the most popular), or a tubby combat animal that heals a great deal with adrenaline.
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2061595:date=Jan 17 2013, 08:29 AM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Jan 17 2013, 08:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just remove the stupid blinding effect. So dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    for the love of god yes, I don't want that much immersion
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=2061645:date=Jan 16 2013, 02:54 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Jan 16 2013, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OR, better yet, since no one has mentioned this, make the gorge spit deplete more energy. Done!

    This will also solidify the choices of making your gorge a quick, fleeing coward with celerity (not the most popular), or a tubby combat animal that heals a great deal with adrenaline.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    not like you can flee a fight with celerity anyway, unless they suddenly stop shooting you.
  • IhmemiesIhmemies Join Date: 2003-03-27 Member: 14930Members, Constellation
    Gorges aren't meant to be raped easily.. they were badass in NS1 and should be so in NS2.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=2061623:date=Jan 16 2013, 11:25 PM:name=Grissi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grissi @ Jan 16 2013, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Drop gorge damage to 30 and remove the blinding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This, pretty much. Problem solved.
  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Members
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2061676:date=Jan 16 2013, 05:01 PM:name=turtsmcgurt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turtsmcgurt @ Jan 16 2013, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not like you can flee a fight with celerity anyway, unless they suddenly stop shooting you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Assuming you position yourself and see/hear them coming you can. Still, it's not the most useful skill for a gorge.

    I still don't see anything wrong about increasing the energy required for spits BTW. It would also make gorges more defense oriented around shifts, but much more vulnerable in the open since they are essentially waddling fortresses.
  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2061681:date=Jan 17 2013, 01:12 AM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Jan 17 2013, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This, pretty much. Problem solved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I see no poblem with the blinding. But whatever. Let alone a problem with the damage.
  • SaltSalt Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172766Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    So now the helpless little creatures you once hunted so religiously can fight you back and win? gee. That's a bummer.

    But as someone said already, Working as intended.
  • YMICrazyYMICrazy Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165986Members
    edited January 2013
    Playing in normal servers Gorge's are annoying as ever but I still hunt them down though come out with more scars. However I am sure the competitive matches must be a lot different. Those Gorge's must have killer aim so it might feel completely different in those games.
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