Im not sure why but welding isn't working for me even in your test map, also push isn't working as well as i hoped either, when trying to push players along the ground it's a bit slow and stutters, im guessing its friction with the floor, is it possible to fix?
The logic and weldable stuff is good but it would be nice to be able to reverse the changes by welding again or after a timeout, though what i would really like to see is a simple on/off button control as well as the ability to affect stuff like cinematics, sound, death trigger etc, then things will really start to get interesting!
Finished now the following things: logic_weldable - triggers something after welding (you can use a multiplier here, too) logic_counter - counts the input events and triggeres after a fixed amount func_door - door that can be triggered from the logic_timer and ohter logic entities (siege maps etc) logic_function - calls a ingame function like team won ... logic_trigger - triggers a logic entity when a player go through the trigger (I renamed the timed_door to func_door, cause it can be triggered by every logic entity, not just the timer).
I will write some tutorials how to use the entities when I got time.
@Magento, yeah I know that welder bug, in my map, the weldable has no rly output (disabled the moveable), so its not doing anything. The best thing is to try if the weldable can be placed in the room, not near any entities and try it then, sometimes it reacts with some entities and your welder will not check that theres a welding entity.
Try also to download the newest source from github (had no time to publish it at workshop). <a href="https://github.com/JimWest/ExtraEntitesMod/archive/master.zip" target="_blank">https://github.com/JimWest/ExtraEntitesMod/...hive/master.zip</a> Havent found a solution for that friction problem at the push_trigger so far.
Ok i've updated to the latest version and have been playing around for a while, the weld trigger and moveable do seem to work now but i find they're a bit too limiting, there's the option to choose model but it doesn't move the length of the model into position only a vents worth which isn't much, i was hoping to be able to use it for the big blast shield which is as tall as the gate room, i found the perfect model as well once resized, so it would be great to have an option for how far it travels, after all it is called func_moveable and not func_vent, at the moment it's only good for vents but if you remove the up/down option and instead make it move from location to location at a given speed it makes it much more useful.
The multiplier works well and i could control a few things from one or two triggers, the weld and touch triggers both seem to work ok, the door locks and unlocks and the moveable moves, though the movable should be allowed to reverse as well if need be.
The train seems to work but i don't understand it's behaviour, really it should just follow waypoints exactly in order going from point to point no matter what location they're at but instead its seems to be based on pathing which means it does all sorts of weird movements to get around, it even got stuck on something and kept spinning around, the thing is it shouldn't of even been on the ground as i had all the waypoints well above in the air, id like a floating train and it does half the time but it keeps moving up and down and not following the waypoints properly, it's a good start and a lot better than nothing but try something other than pathing so it follows waypoints exactly, it would be a lot simpler and work as people expect.
The func_moveable and the train isnt finished, I need to change some things, it's just proof of concept at the moment. I will make the weldable thing resetable after welding in the map editor.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
One thing I'd love to see from this mod (or as an actual feature) is some sort of straight directional light. <img src="http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/users/manuals/cosmoworlds/images/litType.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
These would be awesome as natural light for outdoor areas. Using spotlights is irritating because they cast light out in an arc; which makes the shadows look weird.
The main trick to implementing directional lights would be that geometry in the Spark engine doesn't block light. So you'd need to bound the directional light within a rectangular prism or cylinder, instead of letting it cast onto everything.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
That's why you'd bound it within a rectangular prism or cylinder. Geometry that was outside the bounding shape wouldn't be hit by the light. So, if you had a directional light casting onto a wall and there was a dark room on the other side of the wall, you'd stretch the bounding shape so that it ended between the outer wall and the dark room.
JimWest, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your work on these new entities.
I started NS2 mapping just a couple weeks ago and I find it impossible to follow mapping conventions. My first map (Co_Lavacliff) is evidence of this. It is a great big mostly-outdoor map with minimal lighting, distant walls, and a ridiculously high ceiling where the Marines must make their way out of the safety of their starting building and climb the side of a cliff, fending off lerk attacks and surviving whatever else is crouching in the darkness.
After a couple rounds online, a few things became evident.
<b>1.)</b> Flashlights aren't nearly powerful enough, so marines are pretty much humped until they obtain enough points to buy jetpacks (for mobility) or exosuits (for their superior flashlights, of course). So instead of assaulting the hive, the marines stick to their spawn building which has only one exit and any lone alien foolish enough to show himself gets turned into jelly. After all, who would want to leave through this choke point into the lerk-infested night just to get picked off by something you can't see? <b>2.)</b> It is easy to move far enough away from everyone else that they disappear.
As I understand it, you have built entities to load lua files by name and change the model clipping range which will allow me to fix #1 and #2 above. What is the status of these entities? Any chance they will be in Combat Mode this weekend so I can update my map?
Update: Included logic_lua and map_settings. logic_lua: lets you load your own lua files into the game (you can push your map still just as map in workshop). map_settings: let you set the view distance AND <i><b>fall damage </b></i>(yeah you read right, you can now set falling damage to on then you get damage when falling to much, but this is just beta atm, needs some testing)
@bp2008, the entities are finished and included in this mod, I will include them in combat, too, but I don't know if this will happen this weekend (can't upload it to workshop). You can test your map with this mod, download it via git and set it up like on the first page.
For 1, use the logic_lua entity. You need to copy the lua file for testing into the ExtraEntitiesMod folder (later you can just put it into your map folder under a new lua folder (YourMap\lua\test.lua -> write in the editor lua\test.lua), but that only works if its on workshop and you suscriped to it, so bad for testing).
For 2, you can use the new entity map_settings. You can set there the view distance.
The fall damage feels off as marine. If I "jump" off something half my height, I take damage. And not just a little bit. Like 20 pts. If I fall a lot further -- something that should kill a person, I don't die (not that I'm complaining).
I tried all the aliens and I think they work pretty well.
Skulk: No fall damage Gorge: Fall damage similar to marine. Lerk: No fall damage Fade: A bit of fall damage. Feels similar to marine but fades have more health so they can take it more I guess. Onos: Fall damage seemed negligible, likely due to the massive pool of health.
<!--quoteo(post=2041461:date=Dec 7 2012, 08:19 PM:name=Mouse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mouse @ Dec 7 2012, 08:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2041461"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing I'd love to see from this mod (or as an actual feature) is some sort of straight directional light. <img src="http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/users/manuals/cosmoworlds/images/litType.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
These would be awesome as natural light for outdoor areas. Using spotlights is irritating because they cast light out in an arc; which makes the shadows look weird.
The main trick to implementing directional lights would be that geometry in the Spark engine doesn't block light. So you'd need to bound the directional light within a rectangular prism or cylinder, instead of letting it cast onto everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm no expert, and i dont know much about spark, but taking a quick look in the /shaders/ directory reveals that spark is using precompiled HLSL fx files, which makes it difficult to mod the shaders. In my limited experience coding lighting equations, it is always calculated in the pixel (fragment) shader. To do directional lighting (ignoring occlusion) one has to get the normal of the light, and the normal of the surface to be lit, do a dot-product, and the closer the result is to 1 the closer it is to 100% lit. (Or is it closer to 0, been a while...)
In the game code itself, i have no idea how one would go about coding directional lights. It seems counterintuitive, unless you meant creating some kind of prefab where you ad-hoc a spot-light into a pseudo-directional light?
Would it be possible to have a marine /alien only switch for teleporters?
Also would you be able to help with the gorge build issue, perhaps an entity which creates a no build space because i doubt uwe will add those needed groups anytime soon?
I've been playing with the push trigger entity. It is a lot of fun and it might actually help balance my lavacliff level somewhat. But I noticed some behavior with the lerk that feels broken. You can retain incredible momentum and full control while flying. In fact, once you've gone through a push trigger, your maximum flight speed seems to be permanently increased such that you can attain incredible speeds just by diving a long way on an outdoor map.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=2041496:date=Dec 7 2012, 11:38 PM:name=JimWest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JimWest @ Dec 7 2012, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2041496"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mhm I think I don't get it, how should that look ingame then?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't really give you a 3D example, so I hope this is helps:
First a spotlight: It's a light that arcs out from a point and is bounded by two cones - an inner one and an outer one. No light from the spotlight is cast outside of those bounding cones. <img src="http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2693/spotlightg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
A normal directional light casts in one direction and isn't bounded within any volume - it doesn't really matter where it's placed because it'll cast light on everything anyway. <img src="http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/760/unboundeddirlight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What I'm suggesting, a bounded directional light, would be a directional light that only casts light within a specific volume. <img src="http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5451/boundeddirlight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So, for geometry to be lit by this light, it would need to be facing in the right direction (as fiveseven explained) <i>and</i> fall within the directional light's bounding volume.
In the example below, all of the geometry that is outside the bounding volume (the dark blue lines) isn't being lit, whereas the geometry that is inside the bounding volume (the orange line) is being lit by it. <img src="http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6187/boundeddirlightexample.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I have updated the tutorials in the first page, but I'm not allowed to post more pics so I can only write what the entities are doing :-(. func_moveable is now working and can be used in the maps.
@Mouse , I don't think I can do that cause the lighting thing is only be done in the Engine and can't be modified, the lua files are only telling the engine where to set a light.
Thanks for the recent changes, team only teleport and nogorgebuild seems to work ok, is it possible to make it so you only have to use one entity that can be scaled up and cover a bigger space including walls as it will require hundreds of them otherwise?
Also any idea when you'll have the func_moveable improved so we can use bigger models and make custom doors and stuff?
You can use every model you want and scale it, thats already working with the func_moveable. And you can set a logic_trigger to trigger the door, when someone goes through the door.
But I think the door needs a bit work then cause when somebody trigger it again, it would close.
Sorry that wasn't what i meant, you can do that but it's no good having a big door move a small distance and not close properly, woulnd't it be more useful if instead of up/down we put two origins and a travel speed, that way it could move anywhere?
<!--quoteo(post=2042232:date=Dec 8 2012, 06:08 PM:name=bp2008)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bp2008 @ Dec 8 2012, 06:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I noticed some behavior with the lerk that feels broken. You can retain incredible momentum and full control while flying. In fact, once you've gone through a push trigger, your maximum flight speed seems to be permanently increased such that you can attain incredible speeds just by diving a long way on an outdoor map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can no longer reproduce this. Lerk now flies at normal speeds. Fixed already? :)
Hey this is badass, I mean like... BADASS!!!! :D Reaaaaally helpful!!!
My only issue is that your "Map_settings" entity allows me to change the draw distance of the game but I don't know the conversion rate between ingame units and drawdistance units. Your current entity suggests 140 and the default is 40 so am I to presume that 40 was the original engine draw distance and 140 is 4.5x longer or?
Some clarification on this would be really appreciated! Keep up the good work!
That unit is in meters. IIRC the engine uses meters internally for distances and such. The editor uses inches by default but you can change it to meters if you wish in the settings if you want a reference.
<!--quoteo(post=2042918:date=Dec 10 2012, 01:32 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Dec 10 2012, 01:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That unit is in meters. IIRC the engine uses meters internally for distances and such. The editor uses inches by default but you can change it to meters if you wish in the settings if you want a reference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep it in mind that every time the game is updated it could replace editor_setup.xml, it's happened to me twice now that i've forgot to check and when i've changes and saved my map i realised all the extra entities are gone, if it happens you'll have to copy them from a backup or add them again manually, hopefully theres a solution to this problem?
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2012
A few ideas:
<ol type='1'><li>Add a func_button with toggle and timeout options. I.e. if the button is not a toggle button, it will reset after the timeout period.</li><li>Make <b>everything </b>interconnectable. E.g. a functional item sends a signal to a logic unit which then enables two triggers, etc. (I'm sort of imagining it a bit like Wiremod for Garry's mod in case you know it.)</li><li>Allow more complex behavior based on variables (which can be passed through logic units). E.g. a button sends 1 when triggered and returns to 0 after timeout (or rather true/false) instead of just triggering the same function again. There also needs to be a way to modify parameters, but I'm unsure as to how to implement that.</li><li>Make more visible stuff modifiable (toggleable at first, but modifiable parameters would be awesome). E.g. particle emitters, lights, a few props, etc.</li></ol> With this you can create more complex stuff. For example, you could push a toggle button and it enables a steam particle emitter and a push_trigger. To add more awesomeness, maybe it's possible to add a toggleable fan and a wind-up period for both the fan and the trigger? If you used a non-toggle button, you could create something like a jump pad that requires someone else to push the button for you. You could also create a door that triggers a particle effect every time it opens or closes.
Yes, I love to give others lots of work to do. It's probably more than I can imagine. :P
Comments
The logic and weldable stuff is good but it would be nice to be able to reverse the changes by welding again or after a timeout, though what i would really like to see is a simple on/off button control as well as the ability to affect stuff like cinematics, sound, death trigger etc, then things will really start to get interesting!
logic_weldable - triggers something after welding (you can use a multiplier here, too)
logic_counter - counts the input events and triggeres after a fixed amount
func_door - door that can be triggered from the logic_timer and ohter logic entities (siege maps etc)
logic_function - calls a ingame function like team won ...
logic_trigger - triggers a logic entity when a player go through the trigger
(I renamed the timed_door to func_door, cause it can be triggered by every logic entity, not just the timer).
I will write some tutorials how to use the entities when I got time.
@Magento, yeah I know that welder bug, in my map, the weldable has no rly output (disabled the moveable), so its not doing anything.
The best thing is to try if the weldable can be placed in the room, not near any entities and try it then, sometimes it reacts with some entities and your welder will
not check that theres a welding entity.
Try also to download the newest source from github (had no time to publish it at workshop).
<a href="https://github.com/JimWest/ExtraEntitesMod/archive/master.zip" target="_blank">https://github.com/JimWest/ExtraEntitesMod/...hive/master.zip</a>
Havent found a solution for that friction problem at the push_trigger so far.
The multiplier works well and i could control a few things from one or two triggers, the weld and touch triggers both seem to work ok, the door locks and unlocks and the moveable moves, though the movable should be allowed to reverse as well if need be.
The train seems to work but i don't understand it's behaviour, really it should just follow waypoints exactly in order going from point to point no matter what location they're at but instead its seems to be based on pathing which means it does all sorts of weird movements to get around, it even got stuck on something and kept spinning around, the thing is it shouldn't of even been on the ground as i had all the waypoints well above in the air, id like a floating train and it does half the time but it keeps moving up and down and not following the waypoints properly, it's a good start and a lot better than nothing but try something other than pathing so it follows waypoints exactly, it would be a lot simpler and work as people expect.
I will make the weldable thing resetable after welding in the map editor.
These would be awesome as natural light for outdoor areas. Using spotlights is irritating because they cast light out in an arc; which makes the shadows look weird.
The main trick to implementing directional lights would be that geometry in the Spark engine doesn't block light. So you'd need to bound the directional light within a rectangular prism or cylinder, instead of letting it cast onto everything.
I started NS2 mapping just a couple weeks ago and I find it impossible to follow mapping conventions. My first map (Co_Lavacliff) is evidence of this. It is a great big mostly-outdoor map with minimal lighting, distant walls, and a ridiculously high ceiling where the Marines must make their way out of the safety of their starting building and climb the side of a cliff, fending off lerk attacks and surviving whatever else is crouching in the darkness.
After a couple rounds online, a few things became evident.
<b>1.)</b> Flashlights aren't nearly powerful enough, so marines are pretty much humped until they obtain enough points to buy jetpacks (for mobility) or exosuits (for their superior flashlights, of course). So instead of assaulting the hive, the marines stick to their spawn building which has only one exit and any lone alien foolish enough to show himself gets turned into jelly. After all, who would want to leave through this choke point into the lerk-infested night just to get picked off by something you can't see?
<b>2.)</b> It is easy to move far enough away from everyone else that they disappear.
As I understand it, you have built entities to load lua files by name and change the model clipping range which will allow me to fix #1 and #2 above. What is the status of these entities? Any chance they will be in Combat Mode this weekend so I can update my map?
logic_lua: lets you load your own lua files into the game (you can push your map still just as map in workshop).
map_settings: let you set the view distance AND <i><b>fall damage </b></i>(yeah you read right, you can now set falling damage to on then you get damage when falling
to much, but this is just beta atm, needs some testing)
@bp2008, the entities are finished and included in this mod,
I will include them in combat, too, but I don't know if this will happen this weekend (can't upload it to workshop).
You can test your map with this mod, download it via git and set it up like on the first page.
For 1, use the logic_lua entity. You need to copy the lua file for testing into the ExtraEntitiesMod folder (later you can just put it into your map folder under a new lua folder (YourMap\lua\test.lua -> write in the editor lua\test.lua), but that only works if its on workshop and you suscriped to it, so bad for testing).
For 2, you can use the new entity map_settings. You can set there the view distance.
I tried all the aliens and I think they work pretty well.
Skulk: No fall damage
Gorge: Fall damage similar to marine.
Lerk: No fall damage
Fade: A bit of fall damage. Feels similar to marine but fades have more health so they can take it more I guess.
Onos: Fall damage seemed negligible, likely due to the massive pool of health.
I didn't try jetpack or exo marine.
These would be awesome as natural light for outdoor areas. Using spotlights is irritating because they cast light out in an arc; which makes the shadows look weird.
The main trick to implementing directional lights would be that geometry in the Spark engine doesn't block light. So you'd need to bound the directional light within a rectangular prism or cylinder, instead of letting it cast onto everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm no expert, and i dont know much about spark, but taking a quick look in the /shaders/ directory reveals that spark is using precompiled HLSL fx files, which makes it difficult to mod the shaders. In my limited experience coding lighting equations, it is always calculated in the pixel (fragment) shader. To do directional lighting (ignoring occlusion) one has to get the normal of the light, and the normal of the surface to be lit, do a dot-product, and the closer the result is to 1 the closer it is to 100% lit. (Or is it closer to 0, been a while...)
In the game code itself, i have no idea how one would go about coding directional lights. It seems counterintuitive, unless you meant creating some kind of prefab where you ad-hoc a spot-light into a pseudo-directional light?
Also would you be able to help with the gorge build issue, perhaps an entity which creates a no build space because i doubt uwe will add those needed groups anytime soon?
I can't really give you a 3D example, so I hope this is helps:
First a spotlight:
It's a light that arcs out from a point and is bounded by two cones - an inner one and an outer one. No light from the spotlight is cast outside of those bounding cones.
<img src="http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2693/spotlightg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
A normal directional light casts in one direction and isn't bounded within any volume - it doesn't really matter where it's placed because it'll cast light on everything anyway.
<img src="http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/760/unboundeddirlight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What I'm suggesting, a bounded directional light, would be a directional light that only casts light within a specific volume.
<img src="http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5451/boundeddirlight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So, for geometry to be lit by this light, it would need to be facing in the right direction (as fiveseven explained) <i>and</i> fall within the directional light's bounding volume.
In the example below, all of the geometry that is outside the bounding volume (the dark blue lines) isn't being lit, whereas the geometry that is inside the bounding volume (the orange line) is being lit by it.
<img src="http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6187/boundeddirlightexample.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Does that clarify things?
func_moveable is now working and can be used in the maps.
@Mouse , I don't think I can do that cause the lighting thing is only be done in the Engine and can't be modified, the lua files are only telling the engine where to set a
light.
Also any idea when you'll have the func_moveable improved so we can use bigger models and make custom doors and stuff?
And you can set a logic_trigger to trigger the door, when someone goes through the door.
But I think the door needs a bit work then cause when somebody trigger it again, it would close.
I can no longer reproduce this. Lerk now flies at normal speeds. Fixed already? :)
Reaaaaally helpful!!!
My only issue is that your "Map_settings" entity allows me to change the draw distance of the game but I don't know the conversion rate between ingame units and drawdistance units. Your current entity suggests 140 and the default is 40 so am I to presume that 40 was the original engine draw distance and 140 is 4.5x longer or?
Some clarification on this would be really appreciated! Keep up the good work!
Thanks! :)
<ol type='1'><li>Add a func_button with toggle and timeout options. I.e. if the button is not a toggle button, it will reset after the timeout period.</li><li>Make <b>everything </b>interconnectable. E.g. a functional item sends a signal to a logic unit which then enables two triggers, etc. (I'm sort of imagining it a bit like Wiremod for Garry's mod in case you know it.)</li><li>Allow more complex behavior based on variables (which can be passed through logic units). E.g. a button sends 1 when triggered and returns to 0 after timeout (or rather true/false) instead of just triggering the same function again. There also needs to be a way to modify parameters, but I'm unsure as to how to implement that.</li><li>Make more visible stuff modifiable (toggleable at first, but modifiable parameters would be awesome). E.g. particle emitters, lights, a few props, etc.</li></ol>
With this you can create more complex stuff. For example, you could push a toggle button and it enables a steam particle emitter and a push_trigger. To add more awesomeness, maybe it's possible to add a toggleable fan and a wind-up period for both the fan and the trigger? If you used a non-toggle button, you could create something like a jump pad that requires someone else to push the button for you. You could also create a door that triggers a particle effect every time it opens or closes.
Yes, I love to give others lots of work to do. It's probably more than I can imagine. :P