<div class="IPBDescription">or the fire button function</div>When you get exo with claw and minigun, the LMB controls the claw. Shouldn't this be minigun?
LMB is always fire. It feels weird to make exo claw & minigun users force to use an alternate button to fire.
<!--quoteo(post=1976628:date=Sep 13 2012, 02:01 AM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 13 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But the claw is on left, while the minigun is on the right... Would seem awkward to shoot with left button and have it come from the right side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Which is why you switch the claw to the right hand.
<!--quoteo(post=1976633:date=Sep 13 2012, 01:06 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 13 2012, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The current set up is fine and mixing it would be ridiculously confusing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the way it is now is confusing. Try to think like a new player..
New player, left click "ah i can punch" (tries to right click) "I get a minigun too!" HOW CAN I EVER REMEMBER THIS MUCH INFORMATION, EVEN IF IT IS REINFORCED WITH POSITIONING ON SCREEN xD
<!--quoteo(post=1976656:date=Sep 13 2012, 12:22 AM:name=DggMuffin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DggMuffin @ Sep 13 2012, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->New player, left click "ah i can punch" (tries to right click) "I get a minigun too!" HOW CAN I EVER REMEMBER THIS MUCH INFORMATION, EVEN IF IT IS REINFORCED WITH POSITIONING ON SCREEN xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> WAAAAAAH I NEED A TOOLTIP!!!!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just mirror the models and change the buttons please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
The function that is used most often (minigun) should be the button that is used most often (left mouse).
<!--quoteo(post=1976656:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:22 PM:name=DggMuffin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DggMuffin @ Sep 12 2012, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976656"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->New player, left click "ah i can punch" (tries to right click) "I get a minigun too!" HOW CAN I EVER REMEMBER THIS MUCH INFORMATION, EVEN IF IT IS REINFORCED WITH POSITIONING ON SCREEN xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rofls! Quick, implement some HUD icons that take up the whole screen that indicate how to fire the mini-gun!
I had the same problem at first with the lerk spikes when they were changed to RMB. It just takes time getting used to it.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Geeze some of you are harsh.. op has a good point, especially if you have custom binds. (a pinnacle of pc gaming)
I agree that they should swap positions! Same with recent lerk swapping.. Since when does melee become primary fire button for a ranged class?? sure you get used to it, but in frantic moments I still occasionally mess it up.
Its essentially as if marines fired their lmg with mouse 2 and melee mouse 1. It breaks consistent mapping found in many games, including this one.
The reason why? They wanted your singular minigun to be in the same screen position as other weapons. Aesthetics over intuitive controls isn't the best route imo.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited September 2012
Also, <!--quoteo(post=1976669:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:29 PM:name=Jow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jow @ Sep 12 2012, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->New players won't find that confusing in the slightest, it's even less of an issue than the whole camera in mouth thing.
It's fine anyway there's no problem with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is an incorrect assumption. I watched many new players over the course of 3 days at pax not only get confused by it, then question me about it, but also forget in battle.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1976866:date=Sep 13 2012, 03:08 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Sep 13 2012, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Never had any issues with this even when first time playing, anyone that has issues must have a disorder of some sort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
also i think it would feel more weird having the gun on the left side.
<!--quoteo(post=1976866:date=Sep 13 2012, 03:08 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Sep 13 2012, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Never had any issues with this even when first time playing, anyone that has issues must have a disorder of some sort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had no issues either. But I also wouldn't have had any issues with it if it were the other way around (gun on left).
Some people clearly do have issues with it, so sounds like a good reason to swap.
I do not understand why the exos primary fire isnt triggered by the primary fire key. It is just stupid, and no screen model is a good enough reason. The current setup seems to be based on the assumption that all players use mouse1 for primary and mouse2 for secondary fire. Personally, my secondary fire is D and it does not make for a good primary fire button. Partially due to the key problem, I dont like to play the fist-exo at all. I'll rather stay every round as a shotgun-welder marine. Oh, and since comm can't buy dual exos, I don't go exo at all ;)
... And no, I will not redo the keys that have served me well since Wolfenstein 3D just because an exo armour in NS2 uses hi-five for primary attack and minigun-of-awesome-doom for secondary.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited September 2012
Well, you see, its not so much a disorder as it is the fact that i use custom bindings from doom and quake days. Mouse 2 for forward + invert mouse
soo my D key is also melee.. so for someone like me the left hand is firing the right minigun.
So while there is the GREAT arguments of 1) intuitive, consistent design that complies to keyboard bindings across most games 2) The function that is used most often (minigun) should be the button that is used most often (left mouse).
it DOES suck even more if you have custom bindings..
<!--quoteo(post=1976901:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Squirreli_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squirreli_ @ Sep 12 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not understand why the exos primary fire isnt triggered by the primary fire key. It is just stupid, and no screen model is a good enough reason. The current setup seems to be based on the assumption that all players use mouse1 for primary and mouse2 for secondary fire. Personally, my secondary fire is D and it does not make for a good primary fire button. Partially due to the key problem, I dont like to play the fist-exo at all. I'll rather stay every round as a shotgun-welder marine. Oh, and since comm can't buy dual exos, I don't go exo at all ;)
... And no, I will not redo the keys that have served me well since Wolfenstein 3D just because an exo armour in NS2 uses hi-five for primary attack and minigun-of-awesome-doom for secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You underestimate the power of bromanitude. Sure, the Minigun is strictly more effective as a weapon, but every fist that connects with a squishy Alien gives you awesome points. And once you store up enough awesome points...well...
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/CtVTw.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/CtVTw.jpg</a> (Replace 'Kickstarter' with 'Khaamander')
Edit: Why do two people use D for secondary? The heck are your movement keys?
<!--quoteo(post=1976624:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:59 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 12 2012, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976624"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, it feels odd when first using the Exo and takes a while to get used too for new players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was never confused using the exo. Gun is on the right? I'll use the right mouse button then.
<!--quoteo(post=1976907:date=Sep 13 2012, 09:34 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Sep 13 2012, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was never confused using the exo. Gun is on the right? I'll use the right mouse button then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It can be since as a Marine with a rifle you use LMB to fire and RMB to melee. Would be more consistent if they moved the buttons and the arms on the model.
<!--quoteo(post=1976921:date=Sep 13 2012, 09:09 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 13 2012, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976921"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It can be since as a Marine with a rifle you use LMB to fire and RMB to melee. Would be more consistent if they moved the buttons and the arms on the model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard of a case of someone being confused by this. It makes 100x more sense for the gun to be in the right hand, as that is the dominant hand and thus easier to aim. Honestly it would look silly if it was left handed. The left hand is seen as the secondary hand for 90% of the population. And the minigun certainly isn't secondary.
<!--quoteo(post=1976926:date=Sep 13 2012, 12:18 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 13 2012, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have never heard of a case of someone being confused by this. It makes 100x more sense for the gun to be in the right hand, as that is the dominant hand and thus easier to aim. Honestly it would look silly if it was left handed. The left hand is seen as the secondary hand for 90% of the population. And the minigun certainly isn't secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This thread is full of people telling the system is currently confusing, yet "I have never heard of a case of someone being confused by this." ;)
Also, this argument about right being the primary hand has very little to do with the fact that, usually, when players select a key to be their primary fire button, they actually expect the key to, well, fire their primary weapon.
endarJoin Date: 2010-07-27Member: 73256Members, Squad Five Blue
I didn't even notice that RMB was the minigun attack, until I read this thread. I just naturally used the right button, but after reading this thread, it does make sense to have it on the left, especially if theres evidence of people getting confused (theres enough confusing elements in NS2 without making more up).
I also have some trouble to adapt the current binding but I dont consider it a real thing to be changed. We will adapt in a few days and thats is then...
<!--quoteo(post=1976628:date=Sep 13 2012, 02:01 AM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 13 2012, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But the claw is on left, while the minigun is on the right... Would seem awkward to shoot with left button and have it come from the right side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rifles, pistols, shotguns, grenade launchers and flame throwers are fire using the left mouse button. And those weapons are on the right side :P
Consistency please; primary fire button (LMB) should always fire the primary weapon (the minigun) and the secondary fire button (RMB) should use the melee attack (rifle butt and the claw).
Yeah I see no real reason not to mirror the models and maintain keybind consistency. I agree that it didn't take me long to figure out RMB for the right-hand minigun, but it really does break an important UI rule, IMO.
Comments
Just mirror the models and change the buttons please.
...Which is why you switch the claw to the right hand.
Actually the way it is now is confusing. Try to think like a new player..
WAAAAAAH I NEED A TOOLTIP!!!!
It's fine anyway there's no problem with it.
+1
The function that is used most often (minigun) should be the button that is used most often (left mouse).
Rofls! Quick, implement some HUD icons that take up the whole screen that indicate how to fire the mini-gun!
I had the same problem at first with the lerk spikes when they were changed to RMB. It just takes time getting used to it.
The function that is used most often (minigun) should be the button that is used most often (left mouse).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems only logical.
I agree that they should swap positions!
Same with recent lerk swapping..
Since when does melee become primary fire button for a ranged class??
sure you get used to it, but in frantic moments I still occasionally mess it up.
Its essentially as if marines fired their lmg with mouse 2 and melee mouse 1.
It breaks consistent mapping found in many games, including this one.
The reason why? They wanted your singular minigun to be in the same screen position as other weapons. Aesthetics over intuitive controls isn't the best route imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1976669:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:29 PM:name=Jow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jow @ Sep 12 2012, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->New players won't find that confusing in the slightest, it's even less of an issue than the whole camera in mouth thing.
It's fine anyway there's no problem with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an incorrect assumption. I watched many new players over the course of 3 days at pax not only get confused by it, then question me about it, but also forget in battle.
it breaks consistency.
+1
also i think it would feel more weird having the gun on the left side.
I had no issues either. But I also wouldn't have had any issues with it if it were the other way around (gun on left).
Some people clearly do have issues with it, so sounds like a good reason to swap.
... And no, I will not redo the keys that have served me well since Wolfenstein 3D just because an exo armour in NS2 uses hi-five for primary attack and minigun-of-awesome-doom for secondary.
Mouse 2 for forward + invert mouse
soo my D key is also melee.. so for someone like me the left hand is firing the right minigun.
So while there is the GREAT arguments of
1) intuitive, consistent design that complies to keyboard bindings across most games
2) The function that is used most often (minigun) should be the button that is used most often (left mouse).
it DOES suck even more if you have custom bindings..
edit: Ninja'd by Squirreli!!
... And no, I will not redo the keys that have served me well since Wolfenstein 3D just because an exo armour in NS2 uses hi-five for primary attack and minigun-of-awesome-doom for secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You underestimate the power of bromanitude. Sure, the Minigun is strictly more effective as a weapon, but every fist that connects with a squishy Alien gives you awesome points. And once you store up enough awesome points...well...
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/CtVTw.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/CtVTw.jpg</a> (Replace 'Kickstarter' with 'Khaamander')
Edit: Why do two people use D for secondary? The heck are your movement keys?
I was never confused using the exo. Gun is on the right? I'll use the right mouse button then.
It can be since as a Marine with a rifle you use LMB to fire and RMB to melee.
Would be more consistent if they moved the buttons and the arms on the model.
Would be more consistent if they moved the buttons and the arms on the model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard of a case of someone being confused by this. It makes 100x more sense for the gun to be in the right hand, as that is the dominant hand and thus easier to aim. Honestly it would look silly if it was left handed. The left hand is seen as the secondary hand for 90% of the population. And the minigun certainly isn't secondary.
This thread is full of people telling the system is currently confusing, yet "I have never heard of a case of someone being confused by this." ;)
Also, this argument about right being the primary hand has very little to do with the fact that, usually, when players select a key to be their primary fire button, they actually expect the key to, well, fire their primary weapon.
Rifles, pistols, shotguns, grenade launchers and flame throwers are fire using the left mouse button. And those weapons are on the right side :P
Consistency please; primary fire button (LMB) should always fire the primary weapon (the minigun) and the secondary fire button (RMB) should use the melee attack (rifle butt and the claw).