<!--quoteo(post=1969929:date=Sep 2 2012, 07:09 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 2 2012, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what is your evidence for this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens do not need any more advantages early game.
Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring. Even Veil, as big as it is, still takes a skulk ~ 25 seconds to navigate from Sub-sector to Pipeline if he uses vents.
Also, as I mentioned, since hives in NS2 aren't don't technically cost 50 res because you don't need to gorge to drop one, it's not complete disaster to lose one like it was in NS1. I usually see Aliens play whack-a-mole with hives and marines in the last few builds.
Aliens really need to secure hive and defend locations before dropping, I see soo many hives die because rushed hive drops when there's 5+ marines in the next room. Hopefully we'll see more gorges secure hives with a few hydras when they're buffed a bit.
Being able to pick the hive/egg where you spawn would probably be the best middleground solution for this.
<!--quoteo(post=1970030:date=Sep 2 2012, 05:24 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 2 2012, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You would have to make the shade hive worth it. I think having silence and camoflauge combined into one upgrade. Put focus in the extra slot... etc now we are in a new topic.
<!--quoteo(post=1970030:date=Sep 2 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 2 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens do not need any more advantages early game.
Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry but you could also go Shade then Shift or using the two yuo put up...Crag then Shift (as teleporting doesn't really work will 2 hives are up) Given current state of DC's not sure we would not see shade, shift then Crag last..seeing as most maps have 5 tech points.
Crag hive is not that great armour boosts minimal and slow down is killer..often better to go without until leap or celerity are available (2 hives and techs)
You say aliens dont need more advantages....ummm they no longer have mobility, maps lit up like xmas tree...what exactly is it they are meant to dominate on? You wont see lerks or fades until 3-4 min mark by which times marines have shotties and or phase tech.
<!--quoteo(post=1969714:date=Sep 1 2012, 12:14 PM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 1 2012, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to think that hive teleporting was not for ns2. That the maps were to small. I was right, up until I played veil.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you havn't noticed, Veil is kind of.. alien sided in regards to hives.. the marines spawn at the top, while the alien hives/ tech points are all on the south end of the map
<!--quoteo(post=1970030:date=Sep 2 2012, 12:24 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 2 2012, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens do not need any more advantages early game.
<b>Being a 2+ hive requirement means this is not necessarily an early game advantage. Marines can and should easily have phase tech by the time a 2nd hive is up</b>
Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring. Even Veil, as big as it is, still takes a skulk ~ 25 seconds to navigate from Sub-sector to Pipeline if he uses vents.
<b>Not all aliens can use vents, the gorge and onos are screwed. You are also assuming the hive that is dropped is the one located adjacent to the original which is not always true. So what do aliens do in cases where marines have locked down a hive and have no choice but to drop one on the other side of the map?</b>
Also, as I mentioned, since hives in NS2 aren't don't technically cost 50 res because you don't need to gorge to drop one, it's not complete disaster to lose one like it was in NS1. I usually see Aliens play whack-a-mole with hives and marines in the last few builds.
<b>This is circumstantial at best.</b>
Aliens really need to secure hive and defend locations before dropping, I see soo many hives die because rushed hive drops when there's 5+ marines in the next room. Hopefully we'll see more gorges secure hives with a few hydras when they're buffed a bit.
<b>Being a multiplayer game you cannot predict where anyone will be at any given time so scouting every inch around a hive before dropping it is a bit of a stretch, especially on a pub server.</b>
Being able to pick the hive/egg where you spawn would probably be the best middleground solution for this.
<b>This means the only defense in the hive is one that has just spawned which means skulks only.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On theorycrafting side I'd probably prefer to have the hive teleport. The way the pres oriented res system works, you're probably going to see a lot of unpredictable pushes, hive snipe attempts and volatile gameplay in general. In such situations the hive teleport gives the aliens faster reaction times and possibilites to set up a quick defence.
Think of early SC2 and how the small maps and things like extremely flexible terran tech made the gameplay extremely volatile. They had to introduce bigger maps, slow down some terran units and add some limitations to terran tech to stabilize the gameplay. NS2 has very similar combination of short travel distances, hard to read opponents and big damage potential.
<!--quoteo(post=1970066:date=Sep 2 2012, 07:26 AM:name=Beelzebub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Beelzebub @ Sep 2 2012, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you havn't noticed, Veil is kind of.. alien sided in regards to hives.. the marines spawn at the top, while the alien hives/ tech points are all on the south end of the map<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
¬_¬
Marines get easy access to West Skylights and Topo. Major contention points from there are Nano, Overlook, and C12, then push into a hive.
If Aliens spawn Sub, they primarily have access to Overlook and Cargo and fight for Nano. Spawn Cargo you get either Sub or Pipeline and fight for Nano (should be able to hold in theorycraft world but takes all resources due to extra distance and lots of open space that favors Marines going in). Spawn Pipe you get C12 and Cargo and fight for Nano.
<!--quoteo(post=1970066:date=Sep 2 2012, 06:26 AM:name=Beelzebub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Beelzebub @ Sep 2 2012, 06:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970066"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you havn't noticed, Veil is kind of.. alien sided in regards to hives.. the marines spawn at the top, while the alien hives/ tech points are all on the south end of the map<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its actually marine sided
marines move just as fast as skulks + they have phase gates. If aliens didnt have to have cysts then it would be alien sided, just look at the res points, aliens kind of have to get nano and stop their cyst chain from constantly being cut. Ive played plenty of games on veil where marines had no trouble securing a 2nd cc at 1 of the bottom tech points. Usually aliens win when they can overrun these tech points before exos are out
marines move just as fast as skulks + they have phase gates. If aliens didnt have to have cysts then it would be alien sided<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually the whole game is still alien-sided, and introducing a great map isn't enough to impact that
<!--quoteo(post=1970030:date=Sep 2 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 2 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens do not need any more advantages early game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... but that doesn't mean you shouldn't add features that aliens will need when the game is better
also, having 2+ hives and using hivewalk is not "early game"..sorry, pal!
<!--quoteo(post=1970151:date=Sep 2 2012, 03:42 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 2 2012, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could've fooled me. You can get 2 hives up at around the ~4 minute mark in NS2.
There's also the problem of the dreaded feature creep, there's a point where adding more features just hurts the game overall.
Aliens are having early game problems because cara slowdown is still in effect. Once that's gone and Hydras are buffed everything should be fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
feature creep is zerg hallucinations, not hivewalk :)
<!--quoteo(post=1970141:date=Sep 2 2012, 03:24 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Sep 2 2012, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see a mechanic like Nydus canals than instant teleport. It wouldn't be instant like a PG but aliens would move rapidly through it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1970135:date=Sep 2 2012, 12:20 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 2 2012, 12:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970135"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->actually the whole game is still alien-sided, and introducing a great map isn't enough to impact that<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I happen to disagree on that point. I think the game is slightly, I do mean really slightly, marine sided.
<!--quoteo(post=1970301:date=Sep 2 2012, 10:36 PM:name=mushookees)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mushookees @ Sep 2 2012, 10:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970301"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hive teleportation should be on a gorge structure, this would solve the issue of commanders always choosing shift hive 1st.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As a third hive ability. Having three hives or more is when you need hive teleportation the most.
Nydus canal (=kind of tf2 teleporter) for the gorge is much better than hive teleport. Especially when it is only a shift-tech. More birds with one stone! It's easy to implement. Makes the gorge more interesting by adding a new building and also makes him more important for the team. It opens up possibilities for ninja-placement and therefor more tactic.
Really the only down side is, that it is nearly the same as a phase gate.
<!--quoteo(post=1970348:date=Sep 3 2012, 09:29 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 3 2012, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970348"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really the only down side is, that it is nearly the same as a phase gate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And its for that reason that we should stick with the NS1 MC behavior, allows for things to be different (you can quickly get to a hive under threat...AFTER you have cara/celerity/etc), or quickly move to other side of the map to co-ordinate with team to push marines.
If its the same as PG tech then its not going to get past the "asymmetry test"...besides nothing wrong with how it happened in ns1.
I can't see why we should focus on asymmetry for the sake of asymmetry, when we can solve more than one problem (=gorge usefulness etc.) at once and reducing the likelihood of creating the same problems as in NS1 (=MC-Hive always first). Also it introduces more tactical options than simple hive teleport.
Beside that, it's easy to make it diverse from the phase gate. For example: Only one-way; only on infestation; etc.
I don't think "It's not asymmetric!" is a valid K.O. - criteria to abandon a good idea for a lazy "Make it like NS1."
<!--quoteo(post=1970368:date=Sep 3 2012, 10:33 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 3 2012, 10:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970368"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't see why we should focus on asymmetry for the sake of asymmetry, when we can solve more than one problem (=gorge usefulness etc.) at once and reducing the likelihood of creating the same problems as in NS1 (=MC-Hive always first). Also it introduces more tactical options than simple hive teleport.
Beside that, it's easy to make it diverse from the phase gate. For example: Only one-way; only on infestation; etc.
I don't think "It's not asymmetric!" is a valid K.O. - criteria to abandon a good idea for a lazy "Make it like NS1."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It not being asymmetrical in this case means its a safer bet to push the old MC chamber...the sides should play differently and the old MC hive teleporting did that. Aliens dont need phase tech...they just need the old hive teleporting back...that allowed for quick response regardless of upgrades taken (seing as we are limited to 1 per tech tree again....its a choice of celerity OR adrenalin...so rapid response from celerity cant be counted on)
One way, only on infestation....not really worth complicating as the gorge is still reliant on khamm to drop cysts and dont offer a way to respond quickly to a hive push by marines (slow responding aliens is number 1 reason for most hive deaths....). Spawning in a hive under attack (current approach) leaves you vulnerable, without upgrades...and a sitting duck.
We had something in NS1 which did actually work, the spawning at a hive under attack replacement is cr@p as you have no upgrades (unlike a spawning marine). A gorge getting from pipes to sub in veil is a slow journey that handicaps the aliens badly...hive teleporting allowed for fast movement but not offensive placement (so not game breaking offensively). Sorry if you think the NS1 approach is lazy but it worked for a couple of reasons, one of which is that it was solely defensive upgrade and could not really be used offensively. IMO what your proposing would be as bad as allowing Exo's to use PG's as it would mean aliens could put to much offensive pressure on and be able to push too easily into marine spawn.
I understood your points. I see why something is needed. But I just don't like the form of hive teleporting. It sounds like a cheap and boring thing. Just use the hive/shift and get to the hive that is currently attacked. No tactic involved. Having a gorge to place this sort of buildings increases the tactical possibilities. Hive teleport or nydus canal for the gorge. The biggest problem is in both cases to balance this new ability for the aliens. (Because both is a huge advantage.)
I'm thinking if the devs decide to implement something it should be more than a copy of NS1. Something that adds tactic and treats more than this one little problem. (It don't even looks like a problem at first, because aliens are doing fine from the win/loss) Also the solution of the problem of a boring gorge are costing time too. Making the nydus canal thing a better bet for time/accomplishment.
<!--quoteo(post=1970374:date=Sep 3 2012, 10:54 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 3 2012, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understood your points. I see why something is needed. But I just don't like the form of hive teleporting. It sounds like a cheap and boring thing. Just use the hive/shift and get to the hive that is currently attacked. No tactic involved. Having a gorge to place this sort of buildings increases the tactical possibilities. Hive teleport or nydus canal for the gorge. The biggest problem is in both cases to balance this new ability for the aliens. (Because both is a huge advantage.)
I'm thinking if the devs decide to implement something it should be more than a copy of NS1. Something that adds tactic and treats more than this one little problem. (It don't even looks like a problem at first, because aliens are doing fine from the win/loss) Also the solution of the problem of a boring gorge are costing time too. Making the nydus canal thing a better bet for time/accomplishment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you played NS1? You say the hive teleporting sounds cheap and boring which is why I ask as I dont know many ns1 players who would have said that.
Not disputing gorges boring to play (damn 3 res hydras)...but what your proposing would offer too much flexibility to aliens (and I am normally 1st to defend the kharaa). Hive teleporting is in no way balance breaking...just look at how devastating forward PG can be...now imagine aliens have one. Sorry you have to change it to be defensive only...which is what they did in NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1970374:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:54 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 3 2012, 11:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understood your points. I see why something is needed. But I just don't like the form of hive teleporting. It sounds like a cheap and boring thing. Just use the hive/shift and get to the hive that is currently attacked. No tactic involved. Having a gorge to place this sort of buildings increases the tactical possibilities. Hive teleport or nydus canal for the gorge. The biggest problem is in both cases to balance this new ability for the aliens. (Because both is a huge advantage.)
I'm thinking if the devs decide to implement something it should be more than a copy of NS1. Something that adds tactic and treats more than this one little problem. (It don't even looks like a problem at first, because aliens are doing fine from the win/loss) Also the solution of the problem of a boring gorge are costing time too. Making the nydus canal thing a better bet for time/accomplishment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well its obvious youve never played ns1 before
hive teleport was beautiful from a gameplay perspective, its only bad point was it was tied to an MC which meant it was always the 1st hive and i believe this is why its not in the game atm.
Your idea is simply an alien phase gate which would be crazy overpowered, the only possibility of it being remotely balanced would be to make it limited to gorge use only so gorges could move back and forth from hive to front line (obviously it would have to be built on infestation otherwise a gorge would place an exit near marine base and the team could do a gorge rush)
and the MC was used tactically all the time, sometimes you would be in a bad position and using the mc to teleport to the next hive meant you could approach from a different direction. The MC allowed aliens to not be restricted in where they placed the hive, building a hive on the other side of the map wasn't a huge disadvantage like it is in ns2.
Its far less strategic the way we have it now, if aliens have Data Core, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a hive in Atrium, if not it will be in crossroads. Imagine a situation where Aliens start at DC, then they put up FC as their 2nd hive and defend them using the hive teleporting, now imagine if marines started at sub .. and then got a 2nd cc at Atrium .... that would be an interesting game :)
<!--quoteo(post=1970018:date=Sep 2 2012, 01:29 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 2 2012, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What? How does the exo change any of the mobility issues that plague the aliens? You probably should read Internets explanation or perhaps go and play NS1 to experience first hand what is being talked about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Fade/Onos = countepart against exos = exos can not teleport through phase gate but fades can travel through map very fast. 2. Ns2 is not Ns1, you can't compare these two games, had Ns1 Exos? nope? right... Im here since 2003 (played ns1 before 2002), so i know ns1 very good. I loved that game, you can see in my signature, but Ns2 has totaly diffrent features and the gameplay also changed very much. If a onos could teleport through hives it would destroy the balance...exos can't teleport in any way too right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1970018:date=Sep 2 2012, 01:29 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 2 2012, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am sorry if you find an alien being able to teleport between hives an issue....you do realise they spawn from the very same hives right? Sheesk this is nothing like the versatility of PG's...or even beacon. Its not able to be activated by the comm simply because a hive is being attacked (like what happens with beacons).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i wrote small lifeforms should teleport, but not fade and onos...because of the balance. If a exo run to far away from his base, the base is undefended like a hive, why should a onos be able to teleport? Ever heard about celerity? Anyway, the game is still in beta and a lot of features are not in.
Railgun Boneshield webstalk's primal scream and some others...
<!--quoteo(post=1970383:date=Sep 3 2012, 02:02 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 3 2012, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970383"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you played NS1? You say the hive teleporting sounds cheap and boring which is why I ask as I dont know many ns1 players who would have said that.
Not disputing gorges boring to play (damn 3 res hydras)...but what your proposing would offer too much flexibility to aliens (and I am normally 1st to defend the kharaa). Hive teleporting is in no way balance breaking...just look at how devastating forward PG can be...now imagine aliens have one. Sorry you have to change it to be defensive only...which is what they did in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have. Years ago. Maybe I don't remember every little detail. But as much as I loved NS1, I wouldn't say that it was perfect. Also NS2 isn't NS1. Simply implementing hive teleport will overpower aliens. Simply because it gives them an advantage in comparison to how it is now. I haven't a problem with temporarily screwing balance in favor of new mechanics that add more fun to the game. But if done, it should be done right and it should be the solution to more than one problem.
You have a point, that it may be very overpowered for offense tasks. (Seeing how successful Shifts can focus alien activity in specific map locations.) But this doesn't mean it isn't balance-able. There are many possibilities. Only useable by skulks or very fragile structure. There are so many possible tweaks that out-wight the cons of aiming for the long run with this implementation.
@mushookees: "well its obvious youve never played ns1 before" Lawl. I stopped reading after this one. If you wont accept, that there are other opinions. So be it. I'm not arguing with you if you use such useless accusations.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 12:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Fade/Onos = countepart against exos = exos can not teleport through phase gate but fades can travel through map very fast. 2. Ns2 is not Ns1, you can't compare these two games, had Ns1 Exos? nope? right... Im here since 2003 (played ns1 before 2002), so i know ns1 very good. I loved that game, you can see in my signature, but Ns2 has totaly diffrent features and the gameplay also changed very much. If a onos could teleport through hives it would destroy the balance...exos can't teleport in any way too right now.
i wrote small lifeforms should teleport, but not fade and onos...because of the balance. If a exo run to far away from his base, the base is undefended like a hive, why should a onos be able to teleport? Ever heard about celerity? Anyway, the game is still in beta and a lot of features are not in.
Railgun Boneshield webstalk's primal scream and some others...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos isnt a counterpart to the exo atm, maybe it will be after boneshield, who knows. I say this because a dual minigun EXO can kill an Onos in 1.5 seconds
And i think not allowing Onos to use hive teleport just like the EXO cant use phase gates would be fine, it all comes down to if ONOS using hive teleport was game breaking/overpowered.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Fade/Onos = countepart against exos = exos can not teleport through phase gate but fades can travel through map very fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fades are equivalent to JP's if Onos is meant to be on par for Exo (which I dont agree with...1 dual exo destroys onos) so your saying you want fades to be able to use these tunnels? or are we stopping JP's using PG's? Sorry but teleporting aliens in the way suggested by necro would be OP.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Ns2 is not Ns1, you can't compare these two games, had Ns1 Exos? nope? right...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heavy is similar to exo's....same way arcs and sieges are. Ignoring what worked in NS1 is silly...this is the sequel so noticing what worked in the first sounds like a plan the devs might just consider. Also the argument I put forward is not simply that it worked in NS1 but that is was a solely defensive ability (and works better than current spawning in hive under attack). Currently an alien hive goes down 7/10 times a decent push happens due to aliens being slow to respond (being stuck other side of map to marine push is a hive killer). This would offer aliens a quick way to move between hives, would allow for celerity to be slowed down so it does not get to same top speed (done to compensate for loss of MC's...) as such less "warping". But most of all its not an upgrade that can be used to place undue pressure on marine bases (which a PG type portal would do). Finally it helps address the aliens spawning naked issue (which coupled with spawning at hive under attack is frustratint....cant even upgrade if I wanted to before I am being shot at!!!!!) where marines spawn fully teched.... This makes marine pushes more succesfull as they come up against unscaled aliens.
But I guess your right I have been relying on the "Waaah its what was done in NS1 Waaaah" line now havent i...
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im here since 2003 (played ns1 before 2002), so i know ns1 very good. I loved that game, you can see in my signature, but Ns2 has totaly diffrent features and the gameplay also changed very much. If a onos could teleport through hives it would destroy the balance...exos can't teleport in any way too right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why because aliens would be able to defend a hive for longer? JP's might have to fear an onos appearing at a hive under attack...sorry I dont see how the MC functionality would be a game breaker...so aliens at 3 hives can move between these 3 locations...WOW....totally like a forward PG that can have JP'ing GL/flamer marines spewing out.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i wrote small lifeforms should teleport, but not fade and onos...because of the balance. If a exo run to far away from his base, the base is undefended like a hive, why should a onos be able to teleport? Ever heard about celerity?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So 1 exo cant be beaconed back like every other marine can...aliens have no ability to do this currently. Yes I am aware of celerity....and I am also aware that by the time 2nd hive is up...Adren > Celerity for most lifeforms....also does not help a gorge greatly...most lerks take adren, most skulks also take adren...only onos takes celerity due to massive slowdown. Also celerity still means you have to run for 10-15 seconds...ample time for an exo or two to take down a hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, the game is still in beta and a lot of features are not in.
Railgun Boneshield webstalk's primal scream and some others...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Still in beta...for summer 2012 release (unless thats slipped)...so not likely to see anything major added...your listing things which may not be in for release or at all...not sure they still plan on doing the rail gun (dual minis not OP'd enough?). I believe most consider the game now feature complete (all lifeforms and upgrades are in) and in its final days before release.
<!--quoteo(post=1970685:date=Sep 4 2012, 11:06 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Sep 4 2012, 11:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see hive movement back. However, I think it would also work if you could choose the hive/egg to spawn from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You dont think the fact you spawn without upgrades is an issue when its being attacked? Would be better to chose to spawn at a hive not under attack, get cara, adren or etc...hive tele to hive under attack. Otherwise you spawn and are either having to run across half the map or have no upgrades and are getting shot at.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1970704:date=Sep 3 2012, 06:04 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 3 2012, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You dont think the fact you spawn without upgrades is an issue when its being attacked? Would be better to chose to spawn at a hive not under attack, get cara, adren or etc...hive tele to hive under attack. Otherwise you spawn and are either having to run across half the map or have no upgrades and are getting shot at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You'd run into the same problem where marines would just snipe you teleporting out of the hive (think alien sniping marines coming from a PG). If they are in your hive killing everything, spawn choosing vs hive teleport isn't really going to matter.
Comments
Aliens do not need any more advantages early game.
Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring.
Even Veil, as big as it is, still takes a skulk ~ 25 seconds to navigate from Sub-sector to Pipeline if he uses vents.
Also, as I mentioned, since hives in NS2 aren't don't technically cost 50 res because you don't need to gorge to drop one, it's not complete disaster to lose one like it was in NS1.
I usually see Aliens play whack-a-mole with hives and marines in the last few builds.
Aliens really need to secure hive and defend locations before dropping, I see soo many hives die because rushed hive drops when there's 5+ marines in the next room.
Hopefully we'll see more gorges secure hives with a few hydras when they're buffed a bit.
Being able to pick the hive/egg where you spawn would probably be the best middleground solution for this.
You would have to make the shade hive worth it. I think having silence and camoflauge combined into one upgrade. Put focus in the extra slot... etc now we are in a new topic.
Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but you could also go Shade then Shift or using the two yuo put up...Crag then Shift (as teleporting doesn't really work will 2 hives are up)
Given current state of DC's not sure we would not see shade, shift then Crag last..seeing as most maps have 5 tech points.
Crag hive is not that great armour boosts minimal and slow down is killer..often better to go without until leap or celerity are available (2 hives and techs)
You say aliens dont need more advantages....ummm they no longer have mobility, maps lit up like xmas tree...what exactly is it they are meant to dominate on? You wont see lerks or fades until 3-4 min mark by which times marines have shotties and or phase tech.
If you havn't noticed, Veil is kind of.. alien sided in regards to hives.. the marines spawn at the top, while the alien hives/ tech points are all on the south end of the map
<b>Being a 2+ hive requirement means this is not necessarily an early game advantage. Marines can and should easily have phase tech by the time a 2nd hive is up</b>
Plus, making shifts teleport between hives will just lock NS2 down to Shift than Crag, just like NS1 was with MC then DC. Quite boring.
Even Veil, as big as it is, still takes a skulk ~ 25 seconds to navigate from Sub-sector to Pipeline if he uses vents.
<b>Not all aliens can use vents, the gorge and onos are screwed. You are also assuming the hive that is dropped is the one located adjacent to the original which is not always true. So what do aliens do in cases where marines have locked down a hive and have no choice but to drop one on the other side of the map?</b>
Also, as I mentioned, since hives in NS2 aren't don't technically cost 50 res because you don't need to gorge to drop one, it's not complete disaster to lose one like it was in NS1.
I usually see Aliens play whack-a-mole with hives and marines in the last few builds.
<b>This is circumstantial at best.</b>
Aliens really need to secure hive and defend locations before dropping, I see soo many hives die because rushed hive drops when there's 5+ marines in the next room.
Hopefully we'll see more gorges secure hives with a few hydras when they're buffed a bit.
<b>Being a multiplayer game you cannot predict where anyone will be at any given time so scouting every inch around a hive before dropping it is a bit of a stretch, especially on a pub server.</b>
Being able to pick the hive/egg where you spawn would probably be the best middleground solution for this.
<b>This means the only defense in the hive is one that has just spawned which means skulks only.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think of early SC2 and how the small maps and things like extremely flexible terran tech made the gameplay extremely volatile. They had to introduce bigger maps, slow down some terran units and add some limitations to terran tech to stabilize the gameplay. NS2 has very similar combination of short travel distances, hard to read opponents and big damage potential.
¬_¬
Marines get easy access to West Skylights and Topo. Major contention points from there are Nano, Overlook, and C12, then push into a hive.
If Aliens spawn Sub, they primarily have access to Overlook and Cargo and fight for Nano. Spawn Cargo you get either Sub or Pipeline and fight for Nano (should be able to hold in theorycraft world but takes all resources due to extra distance and lots of open space that favors Marines going in). Spawn Pipe you get C12 and Cargo and fight for Nano.
its actually marine sided
marines move just as fast as skulks + they have phase gates. If aliens didnt have to have cysts then it would be alien sided, just look at the res points, aliens kind of have to get nano and stop their cyst chain from constantly being cut. Ive played plenty of games on veil where marines had no trouble securing a 2nd cc at 1 of the bottom tech points. Usually aliens win when they can overrun these tech points before exos are out
marines move just as fast as skulks + they have phase gates. If aliens didnt have to have cysts then it would be alien sided<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually the whole game is still alien-sided, and introducing a great map isn't enough to impact that
<!--quoteo(post=1970030:date=Sep 2 2012, 08:24 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 2 2012, 08:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970030"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens do not need any more advantages early game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... but that doesn't mean you shouldn't add features that aliens will need when the game is better
also, having 2+ hives and using hivewalk is not "early game"..sorry, pal!
Could've fooled me.
You can get 2 hives up at around the ~4 minute mark in NS2.
There's also the problem of the dreaded feature creep, there's a point where adding more features just hurts the game overall.
Aliens are having early game problems because cara slowdown is still in effect.
Once that's gone and Hydras are buffed everything should be fine.
You can get 2 hives up at around the ~4 minute mark in NS2.
There's also the problem of the dreaded feature creep, there's a point where adding more features just hurts the game overall.
Aliens are having early game problems because cara slowdown is still in effect.
Once that's gone and Hydras are buffed everything should be fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
feature creep is zerg hallucinations, not hivewalk :)
<!--quoteo(post=1970141:date=Sep 2 2012, 03:24 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Sep 2 2012, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see a mechanic like Nydus canals than instant teleport. It wouldn't be instant like a PG but aliens would move rapidly through it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS is feature creep
I happen to disagree on that point. I think the game is slightly, I do mean really slightly, marine sided.
As a third hive ability. Having three hives or more is when you need hive teleportation the most.
More birds with one stone! It's easy to implement. Makes the gorge more interesting by adding a new building and also makes him more important for the team. It opens up possibilities for ninja-placement and therefor more tactic.
Really the only down side is, that it is nearly the same as a phase gate.
And its for that reason that we should stick with the NS1 MC behavior, allows for things to be different (you can quickly get to a hive under threat...AFTER you have cara/celerity/etc), or quickly move to other side of the map to co-ordinate with team to push marines.
If its the same as PG tech then its not going to get past the "asymmetry test"...besides nothing wrong with how it happened in ns1.
Beside that, it's easy to make it diverse from the phase gate. For example: Only one-way; only on infestation; etc.
I don't think "It's not asymmetric!" is a valid K.O. - criteria to abandon a good idea for a lazy "Make it like NS1."
Beside that, it's easy to make it diverse from the phase gate. For example: Only one-way; only on infestation; etc.
I don't think "It's not asymmetric!" is a valid K.O. - criteria to abandon a good idea for a lazy "Make it like NS1."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It not being asymmetrical in this case means its a safer bet to push the old MC chamber...the sides should play differently and the old MC hive teleporting did that.
Aliens dont need phase tech...they just need the old hive teleporting back...that allowed for quick response regardless of upgrades taken (seing as we are limited to 1 per tech tree again....its a choice of celerity OR adrenalin...so rapid response from celerity cant be counted on)
One way, only on infestation....not really worth complicating as the gorge is still reliant on khamm to drop cysts and dont offer a way to respond quickly to a hive push by marines (slow responding aliens is number 1 reason for most hive deaths....).
Spawning in a hive under attack (current approach) leaves you vulnerable, without upgrades...and a sitting duck.
We had something in NS1 which did actually work, the spawning at a hive under attack replacement is cr@p as you have no upgrades (unlike a spawning marine).
A gorge getting from pipes to sub in veil is a slow journey that handicaps the aliens badly...hive teleporting allowed for fast movement but not offensive placement (so not game breaking offensively).
Sorry if you think the NS1 approach is lazy but it worked for a couple of reasons, one of which is that it was solely defensive upgrade and could not really be used offensively.
IMO what your proposing would be as bad as allowing Exo's to use PG's as it would mean aliens could put to much offensive pressure on and be able to push too easily into marine spawn.
I'm thinking if the devs decide to implement something it should be more than a copy of NS1. Something that adds tactic and treats more than this one little problem. (It don't even looks like a problem at first, because aliens are doing fine from the win/loss) Also the solution of the problem of a boring gorge are costing time too. Making the nydus canal thing a better bet for time/accomplishment.
I'm thinking if the devs decide to implement something it should be more than a copy of NS1. Something that adds tactic and treats more than this one little problem. (It don't even looks like a problem at first, because aliens are doing fine from the win/loss) Also the solution of the problem of a boring gorge are costing time too. Making the nydus canal thing a better bet for time/accomplishment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you played NS1? You say the hive teleporting sounds cheap and boring which is why I ask as I dont know many ns1 players who would have said that.
Not disputing gorges boring to play (damn 3 res hydras)...but what your proposing would offer too much flexibility to aliens (and I am normally 1st to defend the kharaa).
Hive teleporting is in no way balance breaking...just look at how devastating forward PG can be...now imagine aliens have one. Sorry you have to change it to be defensive only...which is what they did in NS1.
I'm thinking if the devs decide to implement something it should be more than a copy of NS1. Something that adds tactic and treats more than this one little problem. (It don't even looks like a problem at first, because aliens are doing fine from the win/loss) Also the solution of the problem of a boring gorge are costing time too. Making the nydus canal thing a better bet for time/accomplishment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well its obvious youve never played ns1 before
hive teleport was beautiful from a gameplay perspective, its only bad point was it was tied to an MC which meant it was always the 1st hive and i believe this is why its not in the game atm.
Your idea is simply an alien phase gate which would be crazy overpowered, the only possibility of it being remotely balanced would be to make it limited to gorge use only so gorges could move back and forth from hive to front line (obviously it would have to be built on infestation otherwise a gorge would place an exit near marine base and the team could do a gorge rush)
and the MC was used tactically all the time, sometimes you would be in a bad position and using the mc to teleport to the next hive meant you could approach from a different direction. The MC allowed aliens to not be restricted in where they placed the hive, building a hive on the other side of the map wasn't a huge disadvantage like it is in ns2.
Its far less strategic the way we have it now, if aliens have Data Core, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a hive in Atrium, if not it will be in crossroads. Imagine a situation where Aliens start at DC, then they put up FC as their 2nd hive and defend them using the hive teleporting, now imagine if marines started at sub .. and then got a 2nd cc at Atrium .... that would be an interesting game :)
You probably should read Internets explanation or perhaps go and play NS1 to experience first hand what is being talked about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Fade/Onos = countepart against exos = exos can not teleport through phase gate but fades can travel through map very fast.
2. Ns2 is not Ns1, you can't compare these two games, had Ns1 Exos? nope? right...
Im here since 2003 (played ns1 before 2002), so i know ns1 very good.
I loved that game, you can see in my signature, but Ns2 has totaly diffrent features and the gameplay also changed very much.
If a onos could teleport through hives it would destroy the balance...exos can't teleport in any way too right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1970018:date=Sep 2 2012, 01:29 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Sep 2 2012, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am sorry if you find an alien being able to teleport between hives an issue....you do realise they spawn from the very same hives right?
Sheesk this is nothing like the versatility of PG's...or even beacon. Its not able to be activated by the comm simply because a hive is being attacked (like what happens with beacons).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wrote small lifeforms should teleport, but not fade and onos...because of the balance.
If a exo run to far away from his base, the base is undefended like a hive, why should a onos be able to teleport?
Ever heard about celerity?
Anyway, the game is still in beta and a lot of features are not in.
Railgun
Boneshield
webstalk's
primal scream and some others...
Not disputing gorges boring to play (damn 3 res hydras)...but what your proposing would offer too much flexibility to aliens (and I am normally 1st to defend the kharaa).
Hive teleporting is in no way balance breaking...just look at how devastating forward PG can be...now imagine aliens have one. Sorry you have to change it to be defensive only...which is what they did in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have. Years ago. Maybe I don't remember every little detail. But as much as I loved NS1, I wouldn't say that it was perfect. Also NS2 isn't NS1. Simply implementing hive teleport will overpower aliens. Simply because it gives them an advantage in comparison to how it is now. I haven't a problem with temporarily screwing balance in favor of new mechanics that add more fun to the game. But if done, it should be done right and it should be the solution to more than one problem.
You have a point, that it may be very overpowered for offense tasks. (Seeing how successful Shifts can focus alien activity in specific map locations.) But this doesn't mean it isn't balance-able. There are many possibilities. Only useable by skulks or very fragile structure. There are so many possible tweaks that out-wight the cons of aiming for the long run with this implementation.
@mushookees: "well its obvious youve never played ns1 before"
Lawl. I stopped reading after this one. If you wont accept, that there are other opinions. So be it. I'm not arguing with you if you use such useless accusations.
2. Ns2 is not Ns1, you can't compare these two games, had Ns1 Exos? nope? right...
Im here since 2003 (played ns1 before 2002), so i know ns1 very good.
I loved that game, you can see in my signature, but Ns2 has totaly diffrent features and the gameplay also changed very much.
If a onos could teleport through hives it would destroy the balance...exos can't teleport in any way too right now.
i wrote small lifeforms should teleport, but not fade and onos...because of the balance.
If a exo run to far away from his base, the base is undefended like a hive, why should a onos be able to teleport?
Ever heard about celerity?
Anyway, the game is still in beta and a lot of features are not in.
Railgun
Boneshield
webstalk's
primal scream and some others...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos isnt a counterpart to the exo atm, maybe it will be after boneshield, who knows. I say this because a dual minigun EXO can kill an Onos in 1.5 seconds
And i think not allowing Onos to use hive teleport just like the EXO cant use phase gates would be fine, it all comes down to if ONOS using hive teleport was game breaking/overpowered.
Fades are equivalent to JP's if Onos is meant to be on par for Exo (which I dont agree with...1 dual exo destroys onos) so your saying you want fades to be able to use these tunnels? or are we stopping JP's using PG's?
Sorry but teleporting aliens in the way suggested by necro would be OP.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Ns2 is not Ns1, you can't compare these two games, had Ns1 Exos? nope? right...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heavy is similar to exo's....same way arcs and sieges are.
Ignoring what worked in NS1 is silly...this is the sequel so noticing what worked in the first sounds like a plan the devs might just consider.
Also the argument I put forward is not simply that it worked in NS1 but that is was a solely defensive ability (and works better than current spawning in hive under attack). Currently an alien hive goes down 7/10 times a decent push happens due to aliens being slow to respond (being stuck other side of map to marine push is a hive killer).
This would offer aliens a quick way to move between hives, would allow for celerity to be slowed down so it does not get to same top speed (done to compensate for loss of MC's...) as such less "warping".
But most of all its not an upgrade that can be used to place undue pressure on marine bases (which a PG type portal would do).
Finally it helps address the aliens spawning naked issue (which coupled with spawning at hive under attack is frustratint....cant even upgrade if I wanted to before I am being shot at!!!!!) where marines spawn fully teched....
This makes marine pushes more succesfull as they come up against unscaled aliens.
But I guess your right I have been relying on the "Waaah its what was done in NS1 Waaaah" line now havent i...
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im here since 2003 (played ns1 before 2002), so i know ns1 very good.
I loved that game, you can see in my signature, but Ns2 has totaly diffrent features and the gameplay also changed very much.
If a onos could teleport through hives it would destroy the balance...exos can't teleport in any way too right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why because aliens would be able to defend a hive for longer? JP's might have to fear an onos appearing at a hive under attack...sorry I dont see how the MC functionality would be a game breaker...so aliens at 3 hives can move between these 3 locations...WOW....totally like a forward PG that can have JP'ing GL/flamer marines spewing out.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i wrote small lifeforms should teleport, but not fade and onos...because of the balance.
If a exo run to far away from his base, the base is undefended like a hive, why should a onos be able to teleport?
Ever heard about celerity?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So 1 exo cant be beaconed back like every other marine can...aliens have no ability to do this currently.
Yes I am aware of celerity....and I am also aware that by the time 2nd hive is up...Adren > Celerity for most lifeforms....also does not help a gorge greatly...most lerks take adren, most skulks also take adren...only onos takes celerity due to massive slowdown.
Also celerity still means you have to run for 10-15 seconds...ample time for an exo or two to take down a hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1970393:date=Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1970393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, the game is still in beta and a lot of features are not in.
Railgun
Boneshield
webstalk's
primal scream and some others...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still in beta...for summer 2012 release (unless thats slipped)...so not likely to see anything major added...your listing things which may not be in for release or at all...not sure they still plan on doing the rail gun (dual minis not OP'd enough?).
I believe most consider the game now feature complete (all lifeforms and upgrades are in) and in its final days before release.
You dont think the fact you spawn without upgrades is an issue when its being attacked?
Would be better to chose to spawn at a hive not under attack, get cara, adren or etc...hive tele to hive under attack.
Otherwise you spawn and are either having to run across half the map or have no upgrades and are getting shot at.
Would be better to chose to spawn at a hive not under attack, get cara, adren or etc...hive tele to hive under attack.
Otherwise you spawn and are either having to run across half the map or have no upgrades and are getting shot at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd run into the same problem where marines would just snipe you teleporting out of the hive (think alien sniping marines coming from a PG). If they are in your hive killing everything, spawn choosing vs hive teleport isn't really going to matter.