Didn't you hear, that's why we have celerity, so we can run quickly between hives that are under attack. (In a video i'm pretty sure Flayra said this, lol) Which is completely pointless and wrong.
I haven't had any problems on veil getting back to the hive unless I was an Onos. Celerity is fine, and it's better then giving the aliens a teleport because that would be like the same as a marine "distress beacon"
<!--quoteo(post=1969703:date=Sep 1 2012, 11:09 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 1 2012, 11:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the increased speed of celerity and current map size this isn't really needed.
Also, Hives in NS1 were a lot more crucial and losing one meant game over with no chance of recovery. NS2 isn't as volatile regarding this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is if its your 2nd hive in the late game.
OP didnt mean like distress beacon, but only teleport from one hive to another.
At least let us choose which eggs we spawn from, having to wait 20 sec to spawn in wrong hive is a pain.
<!--quoteo(post=1969714:date=Sep 1 2012, 11:14 AM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 1 2012, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to think that hive teleporting was not for ns2. That the maps were to small. I was right, up until I played veil.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. On large maps marines have a massive advantage. Aliens simply cannot cover so much space.
On the smaller maps it is fine. The aliens are pretty fast and seems balanced with marine phase gates and so on. On veil it seems difficult even with celerity. Being able to choose the hive you want to spawn at seems like a good compromise though.
<!--quoteo(post=1969714:date=Sep 1 2012, 09:14 AM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 1 2012, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I used to think that hive teleporting was not for ns2. That the maps were to small. I was right, up until I played veil.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since I hope we're getting bigger maps like Veil in the future.... yes.
<!--quoteo(post=1969740:date=Sep 1 2012, 12:42 PM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 1 2012, 12:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being able to choose the hive you want to spawn at seems like a good compromise though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hives under attack should be preferred as respawn points since 217 or 216, i dont remember exactly.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
I'm all for the Gorge being able to place a transport node per hive,which he can place anyway he sees fit. Would also give him something extra to maintain as well :)
<!--quoteo(post=1969747:date=Sep 1 2012, 02:35 PM:name=Pampelmuse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pampelmuse @ Sep 1 2012, 02:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hives under attack should be preferred as respawn points since 217 or 216, i dont remember exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Part of the problem with this is egg killing. If I've got 4 marines camping the eggs while waiting for reinforcements, I'd rather spawn at the other hive and run over there instead of being shotgunned down as soon as I spawn and restarting the awfully long respawn timer.
<!--quoteo(post=1969750:date=Sep 1 2012, 09:40 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 1 2012, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm all for the Gorge being able to place a transport node per hive,which he can place anyway he sees fit. Would also give him something extra to maintain as well :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, give gorges nydus tunnels.
Apart from that though, I've yet to see WHY should Kharaa be able to teleport from one hive to another. Marines aren't that fast. If marines are hive-rushy in a game, you need to scout alot (intentional alot) more. I just don't see what the problem is that this is supposed to solve.
That being said, ALIEN SPAWN SUCKS, killing eggs, I get that, it's a neat mechanic and a way to slow down/block spawns. But 4 Kharaa dying at the same time leading to 30 second spawn? NOT cool.
Nah, teleporting between hives isn't good. But being able to teleport to a shift from another shift would be a kickass feature. You used to be able to do it back in the day....
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1969747:date=Sep 1 2012, 02:35 PM:name=Pampelmuse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pampelmuse @ Sep 1 2012, 02:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Hives under attack should be preferred as respawn points since 217 or 216, i dont remember exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Part of the problem with this is egg killing. If I've got 4 marines camping the eggs while waiting for reinforcements, I'd rather spawn at the other hive and run over there instead of being shotgunned down as soon as I spawn and restarting the awfully long respawn timer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. Please forward this to the DEVs so we stop wasting our time with terrible ideas for fixes and bring back something that actually worked in NS1.
What I'd like to see is during the respawn timer a little prompt pops up asking which hive to spawn at if possible (1 - Cargo South, 2 - Pipeline, etc). If nothing is selected, it's random. God knows we've got enough time to hit 1 of 2 or 3 buttons.
<!--quoteo(post=1969750:date=Sep 1 2012, 01:40 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 1 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm all for the Gorge being able to place a transport node per hive,which he can place anyway he sees fit. Would also give him something extra to maintain as well :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes gorge tunnels would be nice. Only work between infested areas. Limit 2, since gorge structures cost res make it 10 res each?
Its a bit of a copy of TF2 engineer, but don't care.
<!--quoteo(post=1969751:date=Sep 1 2012, 01:46 PM:name=greenpee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (greenpee @ Sep 1 2012, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Part of the problem with this is egg killing. If I've got 4 marines camping the eggs while waiting for reinforcements, I'd rather spawn at the other hive and run over there instead of being shotgunned down as soon as I spawn and restarting the awfully long respawn timer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1969740:date=Sep 2 2012, 04:42 AM:name=james888)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james888 @ Sep 2 2012, 04:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the smaller maps it is fine. The aliens are pretty fast and seems balanced with marine phase gates and so on. On veil it seems difficult even with celerity. Being able to choose the hive you want to spawn at seems like a good compromise though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Veil shows how hampered aliens are without the old MC teleporting between MC's and Hives. Marines at teh start of the game have similar mobility to aliens...then they get Phase tech...oh and JP's by which time even with celerity aliens struggle to have the same ability to respond. Marines can always beacon people back to co-ordinate a push (via a PG set up by 1 lone marine)...aliens cant. Aliens have to run the entire map..sure celerity makes it a bit quicker but is terrible compared to Phase tech and JP's.
The spawning at a hive under attack is good and bad...if there is only 1 marine there its fine to spawn at a hive under attack. But when you have 3 exo's in your hive...might as well just not spawn....stupid mechanic spawns me in a place I will struggle to survive for more than 5 seconds.
Aliens need the old MC mechanic back, allowed aliens to be able to respond without having to run from one side of the map to another causing significant 20+ second delays in arrival. I dont see how celerity is expected to replace the hive travel in any way that is actually balanced, currently it does hamper aliens whilst this may be only noticed on veil I think its actually also noticed on other maps but the delay is often not as much. Also what if as a skulk/fade/lerk/onos I want to use adrenalin not celerity...guess aliens are boned then. The changes to upgrade numbers have meant that if aliens want to be able to respond quickly they cant ever get adrenalin....oh and if you want to survive after 4 min mark...you need carapace. We might as well get rid of the other upgrades as aliens are being forced down one path of taking celerity and carapace.
Devs dont take any of these posts the wrong way, we appreciate all the work you guys have done and are doing, veil though has brought out that there is an issue with the decision not to have the MC mechanic of NS1 with hive travel.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At least let us choose what eggs we spawn from, I remember that was in but got removed for some reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Games would be so, so, so, yeah that much more organized and fun if hive teleport and/or egg-choosing would be in.
Hell, the games were pure fun when the whole team tried to stop those HA/JP-rushes by spawning into the location at the same time. There were instant massive battles with waves of units for backup - the opposite of stalemates.
We don't want it to come back, it <i>needs to</i>.
Yeah the egg camping gets old fast. you spawn and get blown head off. Really silly beyond belief. you should definitely be able to choose spawn.
And it does seem wierd that gorge a defensive / healer type, cannot move between hives, it would actually balance out, consider marines have that recall crap where they are all instantly recalled when they are in trouble.
Its not like Gorge is fun or anything atm, but atleast being able to move between hives, gorges would have just alittle bit of mobility and be able to help where needed. its not like they are good in combat at all, cant climb, slow as a snail.
They really need to ask Valve for help, sure TF2 is another game, but come on look at the engineer. If you are gonna make a defensive, healing class you gott amake it fun and viable. imagine if engineer in TF2 couldn move his stuff, didn have teleport, and just sad there wacking his sentry, that would really be interesting not to mention fun gameplay and he would really be benefit to team yes or no ?.
<!--quoteo(post=1969703:date=Sep 1 2012, 11:09 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 1 2012, 11:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the increased speed of celerity and current map size this isn't really needed.
Also, Hives in NS1 were a lot more crucial and losing one meant game over with no chance of recovery. NS2 isn't as volatile regarding this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what is your evidence for this?
For those of you who are a bit unsure about this topic, let me explain it a few different ways: <ul><li>Aliens can only use this ability with 2+ hives (by definition), which in general means marines should (or could) have phase tech, their equivalent</li><li>Marines create and control engagements from range, while aliens attack from melee. When confronted with an attack on a section of the map, sometimes the only reasonable choice is to teleport to a hive and then flank from there. If you cannot do this, you have to take less than optimal routes and defend at a disadvantage (just because this feature is missing)</li><li>Celerity does not impact this, especially in NS2 where it can be deactivated. If marines control an area and they have a big line of sight, it doesn't matter how fast you run through there - your defence will be ineffective.</li><li>This feature doesn't create any undue pressure on marine bases (because it ONLY teleports you to hives, which are balanced in terms of rush distance to marine bases by map designers)</li><li>Actually, it can be used offensively - you can use hivewalk to perform counterattacks if the marines pressure one side of the map heavily and ignore the other. Coincidentally, marines can do this with phase gates. Again, without this feature, aliens are missing a fundamental aspect of the game (the ability to teleport to either defend or counterattack), which should not be exclusive to the marines.</li></ul>
In NS1, movement chambers also assisted with this. Again, though, they could only teleport you to hives. Even with the full hivewalk mechanic (which has stood the test of a decade in NS1), phase tech is more versatile (can be used from anywhere to anywhere) but offers less throughput (lots of aliens can hivewalk at once, each phase gate can send 1 marine at a time). <b>Isn't that kinda beautiful? </b>It's like the two sides have the same ability, but it's expressed in different ways. The swarming zerg-like alien one is geared toward throughput at the cost of versatility, and the terran-like human contraption is geared toward versatility at the cost of throughput. This is the same design pattern that makes Starcraft such an iconic and well-received game, and we should strive for it in NS2.
To leave this out because someone says "it's okay how it is" based on their few hours playing in the beta under absolutely silly conditions would be a poor choice!
Thanks for reading. Now get at me with some poorly-constructed responses!
<!--quoteo(post=1969925:date=Sep 2 2012, 12:03 AM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Sep 2 2012, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They really need to ask Valve for help, sure TF2 is another game, but come on look at the engineer. If you are gonna make a defensive, healing class you gott amake it fun and viable. imagine if engineer in TF2 couldn move his stuff, didn have teleport, and just sad there wacking his sentry, that would really be interesting not to mention fun gameplay and he would really be benefit to team yes or no ?.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean like TF2 before the engineer update? Or other TF games where the focus isn't on cheap skilless gimmicks? Hrrrmmm I dunno man.
<!--quoteo(post=1969929:date=Sep 1 2012, 09:09 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 1 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what is your evidence for this?
For those of you who are a bit unsure about this topic, let me explain it a few different ways: <ul><li>Aliens can only use this ability with 2+ hives (by definition), which in general means marines should (or could) have phase tech, their equivalent</li><li>Marines create and control engagements from range, while aliens attack from melee. When confronted with an attack on a section of the map, sometimes the only reasonable choice is to teleport to a hive and then flank from there. If you cannot do this, you have to take less than optimal routes and defend at a disadvantage (just because this feature is missing)</li><li>Celerity does not impact this, especially in NS2 where it can be deactivated. If marines control an area and they have a big line of sight, it doesn't matter how fast you run through there - your defence will be ineffective.</li><li>This feature doesn't create any undue pressure on marine bases (because it ONLY teleports you to hives, which are balanced in terms of rush distance to marine bases by map designers)</li><li>Actually, it can be used offensively - you can use hivewalk to perform counterattacks if the marines pressure one side of the map heavily and ignore the other. Coincidentally, marines can do this with phase gates. Again, without this feature, aliens are missing a fundamental aspect of the game (the ability to teleport to either defend or counterattack), which should not be exclusive to the marines.</li></ul>
In NS1, movement chambers also assisted with this. Again, though, they could only teleport you to hives. Even with the full hivewalk mechanic (which has stood the test of a decade in NS1), phase tech is more versatile (can be used from anywhere to anywhere) but offers less throughput (lots of aliens can hivewalk at once, each phase gate can send 1 marine at a time). <b>Isn't that kinda beautiful? </b>It's like the two sides have the same ability, but it's expressed in different ways. The swarming zerg-like alien one is geared toward throughput at the cost of versatility, and the terran-like human contraption is geared toward versatility at the cost of throughput. This is the same design pattern that makes Starcraft such an iconic and well-received game, and we should strive for it in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Best argument I think there could be for hive teleportation
before exos, i would agree, but with exos it would be kinda unfair if aliens could teleport. BUT maybe small lifeforms such as skulk, gorge and lerk can teleport to hives but onos and fade can't like default marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1969985:date=Sep 2 2012, 07:35 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Sep 2 2012, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->before exos, i would agree, but with exos it would be kinda unfair if aliens could teleport. BUT maybe small lifeforms such as skulk, gorge and lerk can teleport to hives but onos and fade can't like default marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What? How does the exo change any of the mobility issues that plague the aliens? You probably should read Internets explanation or perhaps go and play NS1 to experience first hand what is being talked about.
I am sorry if you find an alien being able to teleport between hives an issue....you do realise they spawn from the very same hives right? Sheesk this is nothing like the versatility of PG's...or even beacon. Its not able to be activated by the comm simply because a hive is being attacked (like what happens with beacons).
Comments
Also, Hives in NS1 were a lot more crucial and losing one meant game over with no chance of recovery.
NS2 isn't as volatile regarding this.
Also, Hives in NS1 were a lot more crucial and losing one meant game over with no chance of recovery.
NS2 isn't as volatile regarding this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is if its your 2nd hive in the late game.
OP didnt mean like distress beacon, but only teleport from one hive to another.
At least let us choose which eggs we spawn from, having to wait 20 sec to spawn in wrong hive is a pain.
This. On large maps marines have a massive advantage. Aliens simply cannot cover so much space.
Since I hope we're getting bigger maps like Veil in the future.... yes.
Hives under attack should be preferred as respawn points since 217 or 216, i dont remember exactly.
Part of the problem with this is egg killing. If I've got 4 marines camping the eggs while waiting for reinforcements, I'd rather spawn at the other hive and run over there instead of being shotgunned down as soon as I spawn and restarting the awfully long respawn timer.
Yes, give gorges nydus tunnels.
Apart from that though, I've yet to see WHY should Kharaa be able to teleport from one hive to another. Marines aren't that fast. If marines are hive-rushy in a game, you need to scout alot (intentional alot) more. I just don't see what the problem is that this is supposed to solve.
That being said, ALIEN SPAWN SUCKS, killing eggs, I get that, it's a neat mechanic and a way to slow down/block spawns. But 4 Kharaa dying at the same time leading to 30 second spawn? NOT cool.
Hives under attack should be preferred as respawn points since 217 or 216, i dont remember exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Part of the problem with this is egg killing. If I've got 4 marines camping the eggs while waiting for reinforcements, I'd rather spawn at the other hive and run over there instead of being shotgunned down as soon as I spawn and restarting the awfully long respawn timer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. Please forward this to the DEVs so we stop wasting our time with terrible ideas for fixes and bring back something that actually worked in NS1.
Yes gorge tunnels would be nice. Only work between infested areas. Limit 2, since gorge structures cost res make it 10 res each?
Its a bit of a copy of TF2 engineer, but don't care.
Agreed, this is a major problem.
Veil shows how hampered aliens are without the old MC teleporting between MC's and Hives.
Marines at teh start of the game have similar mobility to aliens...then they get Phase tech...oh and JP's by which time even with celerity aliens struggle to have the same ability to respond.
Marines can always beacon people back to co-ordinate a push (via a PG set up by 1 lone marine)...aliens cant. Aliens have to run the entire map..sure celerity makes it a bit quicker but is terrible compared to Phase tech and JP's.
The spawning at a hive under attack is good and bad...if there is only 1 marine there its fine to spawn at a hive under attack.
But when you have 3 exo's in your hive...might as well just not spawn....stupid mechanic spawns me in a place I will struggle to survive for more than 5 seconds.
Aliens need the old MC mechanic back, allowed aliens to be able to respond without having to run from one side of the map to another causing significant 20+ second delays in arrival.
I dont see how celerity is expected to replace the hive travel in any way that is actually balanced, currently it does hamper aliens whilst this may be only noticed on veil I think its actually also noticed on other maps but the delay is often not as much.
Also what if as a skulk/fade/lerk/onos I want to use adrenalin not celerity...guess aliens are boned then.
The changes to upgrade numbers have meant that if aliens want to be able to respond quickly they cant ever get adrenalin....oh and if you want to survive after 4 min mark...you need carapace.
We might as well get rid of the other upgrades as aliens are being forced down one path of taking celerity and carapace.
Devs dont take any of these posts the wrong way, we appreciate all the work you guys have done and are doing, veil though has
brought out that there is an issue with the decision not to have the MC mechanic of NS1 with hive travel.
+1
Hell, the games were pure fun when the whole team tried to stop those HA/JP-rushes by spawning into the location at the same time. There were instant massive battles with waves of units for backup - the opposite of stalemates.
We don't want it to come back, it <i>needs to</i>.
And it does seem wierd that gorge a defensive / healer type, cannot move between hives, it would actually balance out, consider marines have that recall crap where they are all instantly recalled when they are in trouble.
Its not like Gorge is fun or anything atm, but atleast being able to move between hives, gorges would have just alittle bit of mobility and be able to help where needed. its not like they are good in combat at all, cant climb, slow as a snail.
They really need to ask Valve for help, sure TF2 is another game, but come on look at the engineer. If you are gonna make a defensive, healing class you gott amake it fun and viable. imagine if engineer in TF2 couldn move his stuff, didn have teleport, and just sad there wacking his sentry, that would really be interesting not to mention fun gameplay and he would really be benefit to team yes or no ?.
Something needs to give with the gorge.
Also, Hives in NS1 were a lot more crucial and losing one meant game over with no chance of recovery.
NS2 isn't as volatile regarding this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what is your evidence for this?
For those of you who are a bit unsure about this topic, let me explain it a few different ways:
<ul><li>Aliens can only use this ability with 2+ hives (by definition), which in general means marines should (or could) have phase tech, their equivalent</li><li>Marines create and control engagements from range, while aliens attack from melee. When confronted with an attack on a section of the map, sometimes the only reasonable choice is to teleport to a hive and then flank from there. If you cannot do this, you have to take less than optimal routes and defend at a disadvantage (just because this feature is missing)</li><li>Celerity does not impact this, especially in NS2 where it can be deactivated. If marines control an area and they have a big line of sight, it doesn't matter how fast you run through there - your defence will be ineffective.</li><li>This feature doesn't create any undue pressure on marine bases (because it ONLY teleports you to hives, which are balanced in terms of rush distance to marine bases by map designers)</li><li>Actually, it can be used offensively - you can use hivewalk to perform counterattacks if the marines pressure one side of the map heavily and ignore the other. Coincidentally, marines can do this with phase gates. Again, without this feature, aliens are missing a fundamental aspect of the game (the ability to teleport to either defend or counterattack), which should not be exclusive to the marines.</li></ul>
In NS1, movement chambers also assisted with this. Again, though, they could only teleport you to hives. Even with the full hivewalk mechanic (which has stood the test of a decade in NS1), phase tech is more versatile (can be used from anywhere to anywhere) but offers less throughput (lots of aliens can hivewalk at once, each phase gate can send 1 marine at a time).
<b>Isn't that kinda beautiful? </b>It's like the two sides have the same ability, but it's expressed in different ways. The swarming zerg-like alien one is geared toward throughput at the cost of versatility, and the terran-like human contraption is geared toward versatility at the cost of throughput. This is the same design pattern that makes Starcraft such an iconic and well-received game, and we should strive for it in NS2.
To leave this out because someone says "it's okay how it is" based on their few hours playing in the beta under absolutely silly conditions would be a poor choice!
Thanks for reading. Now get at me with some poorly-constructed responses!
<!--quoteo(post=1969925:date=Sep 2 2012, 12:03 AM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Sep 2 2012, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1969925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They really need to ask Valve for help, sure TF2 is another game, but come on look at the engineer. If you are gonna make a defensive, healing class you gott amake it fun and viable. imagine if engineer in TF2 couldn move his stuff, didn have teleport, and just sad there wacking his sentry, that would really be interesting not to mention fun gameplay and he would really be benefit to team yes or no ?.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean like TF2 before the engineer update? Or other TF games where the focus isn't on cheap skilless gimmicks? Hrrrmmm I dunno man.
For those of you who are a bit unsure about this topic, let me explain it a few different ways:
<ul><li>Aliens can only use this ability with 2+ hives (by definition), which in general means marines should (or could) have phase tech, their equivalent</li><li>Marines create and control engagements from range, while aliens attack from melee. When confronted with an attack on a section of the map, sometimes the only reasonable choice is to teleport to a hive and then flank from there. If you cannot do this, you have to take less than optimal routes and defend at a disadvantage (just because this feature is missing)</li><li>Celerity does not impact this, especially in NS2 where it can be deactivated. If marines control an area and they have a big line of sight, it doesn't matter how fast you run through there - your defence will be ineffective.</li><li>This feature doesn't create any undue pressure on marine bases (because it ONLY teleports you to hives, which are balanced in terms of rush distance to marine bases by map designers)</li><li>Actually, it can be used offensively - you can use hivewalk to perform counterattacks if the marines pressure one side of the map heavily and ignore the other. Coincidentally, marines can do this with phase gates. Again, without this feature, aliens are missing a fundamental aspect of the game (the ability to teleport to either defend or counterattack), which should not be exclusive to the marines.</li></ul>
In NS1, movement chambers also assisted with this. Again, though, they could only teleport you to hives. Even with the full hivewalk mechanic (which has stood the test of a decade in NS1), phase tech is more versatile (can be used from anywhere to anywhere) but offers less throughput (lots of aliens can hivewalk at once, each phase gate can send 1 marine at a time).
<b>Isn't that kinda beautiful? </b>It's like the two sides have the same ability, but it's expressed in different ways. The swarming zerg-like alien one is geared toward throughput at the cost of versatility, and the terran-like human contraption is geared toward versatility at the cost of throughput. This is the same design pattern that makes Starcraft such an iconic and well-received game, and we should strive for it in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Best argument I think there could be for hive teleportation
I remember awhile ago a Dev mentioned that the alien spawn time reduces as aliens die. So the quicker they die, the faster they spawn. Strange idea.
BUT maybe small lifeforms such as skulk, gorge and lerk can teleport to hives but onos and fade can't like default marines.
BUT maybe small lifeforms such as skulk, gorge and lerk can teleport to hives but onos and fade can't like default marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What? How does the exo change any of the mobility issues that plague the aliens?
You probably should read Internets explanation or perhaps go and play NS1 to experience first hand what is being talked about.
I am sorry if you find an alien being able to teleport between hives an issue....you do realise they spawn from the very same hives right?
Sheesk this is nothing like the versatility of PG's...or even beacon. Its not able to be activated by the comm simply because a hive is being attacked (like what happens with beacons).