Natural Selection 2 News Update - Gorilla released (NS2 Build 194)

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  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--quoteo(post=1899077:date=Feb 3 2012, 03:54 AM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Feb 3 2012, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1899077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-----------------------------
    Natural Selection is back.
    -----------------------------<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh yes. It seems impossible to believe, but I reg'ed my NS account soon 10 years ago after having see the then-amazing NS teaser video put online before the official mod release. I played several rounds on Heidis Ziege-something server over the weekend and I had that exact feeling too: Natural Selection is back!
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1900003:date=Feb 5 2012, 10:53 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Feb 5 2012, 10:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thanks for the response, Cory!
    yea that is a large resolution, you're right lol
    i totally understand it doesn't make sense for you guys to spend time on a placeholder... but what if a community member wanted to? could it be done?

    forgive my ignorance in this area, but if i'm understanding you correctly the issue is the size of the decal that is placed under a hive. if that decal were smaller, then all other infestation hence forth would display that size decal as well, right? so we'd see less actual infestation coverage at the cost of it's better looks? or am i completely off? :)

    sorry to bug, i love the texture, works perfect, i'm just one of those guys who unfortunately actually takes note of every little piece of art and texture in a world. (that you paint yourself)
    I had to stop playing id's Rage because of my own texture nitpicking. i took more notice of the low res images, cringing at everything around me, instead of actually enjoying the game. :-/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    the texture is supposed to tile instead of scale, that is the reason why it is going blurry because of the big upscaling that is going on.
  • YotopiaYotopia Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75176Members
    edited February 2012
    Wow just had a 80 minute 10 vs 10 game on "NeoTheOnoes 100 Mbit" server as alien commander till i crashed to desktop :)
    This epic battle reminded me on early beta 1.4 NS1 games which where my favorites :)
    You really surprised me with this patch....the best one so far !
    Dont wanna talk about details because i think there enough people who can this better then me but i think your on a good way :)
    gj
  • ErpErp Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 90Members
    Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but this update is looking really amazing and it brought back so many memories of the first game to me.

    Does anyone know if there is a good server up for players in Australia/New Zealand yet?
  • SparkTRSparkTR Join Date: 2007-02-09 Member: 59913Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1900498:date=Feb 7 2012, 03:40 PM:name=Erp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Erp @ Feb 7 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone know if there is a good server up for players in Australia/New Zealand yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The 'Australia Pure NS2' servers are frequently full (they have 3 servers I believe).
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Is it just me or does 'j3' to join a random team from console not work any longer?
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    will there be a quick switch "q" like it was in ns1? or will that just remain engine specific, i like to run around as a skulk sometimes with parasite "equiped" to mark marines and find my self pressing Q to switch back and die.

    Is the Emote from pressing Q a place holder atm? It just seems kinda worthless atm.
  • fleetcommandfleetcommand Hungary Join Date: 2010-05-20 Member: 71809Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1900536:date=Feb 7 2012, 08:17 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Feb 7 2012, 08:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->will there be a quick switch "q" like it was in ns1? or will that just remain engine specific, i like to run around as a skulk sometimes with parasite "equiped" to mark marines and find my self pressing Q to switch back and die.

    Is the Emote from pressing Q a place holder atm? It just seems kinda worthless atm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You don't really need a "quick switch", becuase unlike a lot of FPS game where you have to scroll your mouse button <b>and</b> you have to click to select your new weapon, NS2 uses a "quick switch" mechanism for switching between weapons. So all you need to do it to use your mouse wheel. And it's pretty simple when you have only two "weapons" (like with the skulk), so you don't even need to remember which direction you want to scroll.
  • fleetcommandfleetcommand Hungary Join Date: 2010-05-20 Member: 71809Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    Oh guys, have you noticed the alien winning percentage grow which happend between <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=191&output=chart" target="_blank">build 191</a> and <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=192&output=chart" target="_blank">build 192</a>? Since then, the Aliens win over 70 % of games.
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1900799:date=Feb 8 2012, 11:24 AM:name=fleetcommand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fleetcommand @ Feb 8 2012, 11:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh guys, have you noticed the alien winning percentage grow which happend between <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=191&output=chart" target="_blank">build 191</a> and <a href="http://unknownworldsstats.appspot.com/displayendgamestats?version=192&output=chart" target="_blank">build 192</a>? Since then, the Aliens win over 70 % of games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->It's due to overpowered bile bomb and fades...

    Once aliens get 2 hives its very hard for marines to win...
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Members
    I'd prefer a quick switch 'q' key too.

    The 'only 2 weapon' argument doesn't wash with me because I only want to switch between 2 weapons anyway, but without rolling the mouse wheel....its much more accurate hitting a key once than rolling a mouse wheel '1 click' when I'm also using that hand to apply a myriad of different force angles on the mouse at the same time.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900802:date=Feb 7 2012, 08:38 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Feb 7 2012, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's due to overpowered bile bomb and fades...

    Once aliens get 2 hives its very hard for marines to win...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In my experience, the marine teams that are winning after 194 are the ones where people aim shotguns at fades successfully instead of spamming grenades/flames and doing zero damage. Am I wrong?
  • Dickbeard the PirateDickbeard the Pirate Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73082Awaiting Authorization
    So I noticed in the patch notes you guys removed resource gains for kills.

    I think this is a really really bad idea, and here's why.

    In MOBA games you have the concept of "feeding", that is, playing badly and getting killed a lot gives the enemy resources that allow them to get better gear and kill you even harder.

    This is something that would work well in NS2, for example currently skulks just zerging a base over and over and over again constantly being annoying and taking 90% of the marine team to hold off is a very overpowered tactic, say you're on a team of 8v8 there is literally no reason to not have 5 skulks constantly attacking the marine start, hammering them and preventing them from being able to expand at all because there is no penalty to the alien team for playing in this careless offensive manner, they can just keep respawning and flooding in. This would be balanced if they had a reason to not just suicide rush, feeding the marine team res and consequently weakening yourselves in comparison works well in this dynamic.

    That's just what I've gathered from the games I've played, there may be more to it but I still firmly believe that you should be punished in some way for playing carelessly.
  • acid_rainacid_rain NS2 NAPT Mascot Austin, TX Join Date: 2010-02-16 Member: 70588Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester
    Yeah, this kind of personal gain causes tons of issues between teammates. Just like League of Legends, DotA, and all the other DotA ripoffs. What you end up having is one guy yelling at his team for doing horrible the entire game. This isn't a tower defense game, and weapon upgrades should be a team effort, not a personal effort.
  • Mkk_BitestuffMkk_Bitestuff Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12407Members
    I too think removal of RFK is a mistake. It makes it hard for the marines to push as the lmg can be quite awful later, and your res gain is much slower without the gain of RFK.
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1900842:date=Feb 8 2012, 01:48 PM:name=acid_rain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (acid_rain @ Feb 8 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900842"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, this kind of personal gain causes tons of issues between teammates. Just like League of Legends, DotA, and all the other DotA ripoffs. What you end up having is one guy yelling at his team for doing horrible the entire game. This isn't a tower defense game, and weapon upgrades should be a team effort, not a personal effort.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That maybe true but he does have a point..

    In a game last night i constantly attack their Advanced armoury in marine spawn... I died 7 times but i did manage to kill the armoury..

    I lost nothing and the marines lost everything...

    There are definitely some issues here currently which need to be addressed...
  • OmegaliskOmegalisk Join Date: 2012-01-06 Member: 139750Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900864:date=Feb 7 2012, 10:11 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Feb 7 2012, 10:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That maybe true but he does have a point..

    In a game last night i constantly attack their Advanced armoury in marine spawn... I died 7 times but i did manage to kill the armoury..

    I lost nothing and the marines lost everything...

    There are definitely some issues here currently which need to be addressed...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your team lost 7 eggs right there. Maybe it doesn't mean much on 3 Hives, but the main drawback of a Skulk rush is that the Alien team gets dangerously low on eggs. I've lost several games where the Marines simply pushed with Rifles (usually Shotguns now with the instant research) and won after a failed Skulk rush.

    Besides, I think that there shouldn't be a penalty for dying other than the opportunity cost of what you could be doing staying alive. For instance, 2 Skulks sacrificing themselves to save a Gorge is worth it currently (most times), but if the Marines got a 5 res bonus per Skulk then it would be a tossup.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1900835:date=Feb 8 2012, 10:24 AM:name=######beard the Pirate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (######beard the Pirate @ Feb 8 2012, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I noticed in the patch notes you guys removed resource gains for kills.

    I think this is a really really bad idea, and here's why.

    In MOBA games you have the concept of "feeding", that is, playing badly and getting killed a lot gives the enemy resources that allow them to get better gear and kill you even harder.

    This is something that would work well in NS2, for example currently skulks just zerging a base over and over and over again constantly being annoying and taking 90% of the marine team to hold off is a very overpowered tactic, say you're on a team of 8v8 there is literally no reason to not have 5 skulks constantly attacking the marine start, hammering them and preventing them from being able to expand at all because there is no penalty to the alien team for playing in this careless offensive manner, they can just keep respawning and flooding in. This would be balanced if they had a reason to not just suicide rush, feeding the marine team res and consequently weakening yourselves in comparison works well in this dynamic.

    That's just what I've gathered from the games I've played, there may be more to it but I still firmly believe that you should be punished in some way for playing carelessly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Feeding is a <b>bad</b> part of MOBAs.

    (ugh, are we really using the term MOBA these days?)

    RE: Skulk rushes, I think that has more to do with the fact there's essentially no respawn timer for aliens.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    i personally love the removal of RFK. it just made it so that people who could rambo well became self-sufficient and completely destroyed any cooperative effort on the strategy side of the game. now people actually listen when you tell them to go cap nodes.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2012
    Anyway, I'd be more interested in TRFK, with all single-unit support costs being moved to TR, which would allow support abilities (such as medpacks, ammopacks, nanoshield) to scale with player count. Naturally, feeding is still a bad thing since it could advance the other team's tech tree faster, but at least it doesn't help rambos or increase the number of higher power units (which are purchased with PR).
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1900872:date=Feb 8 2012, 04:05 PM:name=Omegalisk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omegalisk @ Feb 8 2012, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your team lost 7 eggs right there. Maybe it doesn't mean much on 3 Hives, but the main drawback of a Skulk rush is that the Alien team gets dangerously low on eggs. I've lost several games where the Marines simply pushed with Rifles (usually Shotguns now with the instant research) and won after a failed Skulk rush.

    Besides, I think that there shouldn't be a penalty for dying other than the opportunity cost of what you could be doing staying alive. For instance, 2 Skulks sacrificing themselves to save a Gorge is worth it currently (most times), but if the Marines got a 5 res bonus per Skulk then it would be a tossup.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not that big of a deal..

    Cause the marines had to constantly go back to defend their base they had no opportunity to expand and capture res nodes..

    Also they lost an expensive crucial structure that takes ages to upgrade...
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    RFK change was a very good change. The game play much more like a strategy game rather than a team deathmatch game now.

    Sure there are a few problems now that need to be adressed (perhaps all costs are wrong?), but the RFK change clearly went in the right direction.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Members
    I would have repaired the armoury.


    Anyways, i like the new NO RFK res system
    makes it a lot easier to balance in the future as well.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    In a long game in 194, team res often goes well over hundreds for both teams, while the players are stuck at under 20 personal res. It's kinda stupid to see the team have 999 and then you as a player can't use that in any way to your advantage.

    There should be some kind of way to convert tres -> pres.
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Like the commander has the possibility to use tRes to reward a marine with pRes.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    you guys know that the commander can drop weapons right?
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    Congrats on Gorilla! Onos is very intimidating, and the game keeps developing, yay.

    There is still the bug where there can be a huge delay between pressing fire and your gun firing, usually when there is some action going on. I would rather the gun not fire at all because the delay causes you to miss and then you have to wait to fire again... maybe this is just a performance issue that has a planned fix. I notice this a lot because it is one of the main reasons I die as marine.

    Other than that, great progress, keep working at it; maybe after welders are in you can take a pitstop and do a quick pass on movement skill and performance again. I do like how skulk is developing with vaulting; I find it very useful. Overall it is still a shadow of ns1 though, especially for other classes.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    edited February 2012
    I actually love that 'skulk rush' idea for explaining RFK. Here's why:

    If you rush marines nonstop and they kill you nonstop, they should gain something for it (like the ability to buy lots of shotguns and kill you since you have no lifeforms and no map control). What actually happens is marines don't get this, and unless they focus entirely on macs/sentries as a crutch their base is too difficult to defend (relative to the effort put in by a kid running in circles on your CC and biting it every 30 seconds).

    On top of that, the aliens inherently don't use players to build res towers. If your commander tells you to all rush the marines' base, and sends drifters to the far reaches of the map, he's going to get all the res towers for free. Here's a realistic example: the aliens spawned in flight control and the marine spawned in sub access. The aliens deliberately rush sub access through computer lab and crossroads, while the commander takes crevice/atrium/reactor (in that order). Stray marines in the north and east sections of the map will let their team down by not defending their main base, even if they kill cysts and resource towers. Meanwhile, the skulks (with proper execution) are pressuring sub access way more than they should be able to.

    The marines team has to choose between getting a similar level of map control, defending their base without tech, or some compromise (which leads to them panicking and getting dominated). Since the resources from extractors are currently the ONLY source of income for players, it stands to reason that this strategy is very good. Marines have no equivalent to this until they get MACs, and even then it's not the same because MACs cost resources and drifters do not. Trying to reason this situation out leads to a balance nightmare, where you start comparing hive energy (the source of drifters and cysts) to marine tres (the source of res towers, robotics facilities and MACs) - early in the game, one comes from having map control and one does not.

    RFK (or something like it) solves all these problems by keeping player-player interactions important, like they should be in an FPS game.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1900924:date=Feb 8 2012, 10:02 AM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Feb 8 2012, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900924"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a long game in 194, team res often goes well over hundreds for both teams, while the players are stuck at under 20 personal res. It's kinda stupid to see the team have 999 and then you as a player can't use that in any way to your advantage.

    There should be some kind of way to convert tres -> pres.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ask your comm to drop a shotty, or a GL. They haven't removed the old NS1 mechanic, just added the option for those the comm doesn't want to support, to buy their own weapons. A comm should keep his best players, and indeed all players if you have an abundance of res topped up with guns, especially when you spend your PRes on JP's later in the game.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    Does the comm purchase weapons for his marines with his PRes or with TRes?
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