Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
If anyone wanted to write trigger mods it would be very easy to do. I will see how much time I have once i've updated GorgeCraft and Proving Grounds after 221 comes out, then I will start on some triggers.
Interestingly, I was wrong, the powernode isn't a trigger but -
Hydra, Mine, Sentry, Shade all have triggers for their attacks/effects, and of course there is the 'Natural Causes' Death trigger.
Just let me know what custom triggers would be required and I'll make a start when I can.... I can update the trigger.lua to give it extra functionality, or create sub-classed triggers..
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1983515:date=Sep 26 2012, 08:37 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Sep 26 2012, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1983515"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->let me know what custom triggers would be required and I'll make a start when I can.... I can update the trigger.lua to give it extra functionality, or create sub-classed triggers..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A button/panel that triggered doors open/closed. For an air-lock. being able to link multiple triggers too it as well eg: Death trigger to the button/panel for when the airlock decompresses the room. Triggers to cinematics would also be awesome for atmosphere. Like the Klaxton cinematic. when the airlock decompressed.
If you could figure a way to link triggers to faces that made them invisible and noclip / players pass through the face. - Thinking forcefields. Would also love to be able to link triggers too power nodes.
And a way for commanders to be able to activate triggers from a command chair / hive.
If someone does mod a trigger system plase add in a timer system also. So you can have things like cinematics timed and deadman switches and such.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
My first attempts at this haven't gone too well...
My first trigger was a damage trigger. However it doesn't do any damage... Trying to figure out why, once this is working I'll move onto other triggers :D
I am still toying with map ideas. I have one that I think is half decent. I have been drawing all my ideas on paper, and I am drawing them pretty general without any secondary routes so far. I used paint because it is a quick easy way to transfer drawn picture into forums.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2012
You have 1 TP on each side directly connected to centre TP. Are you using random or fixed spawns? Random spawns could cause one team to spawn at TP with direct connect to centre, while the other team does not. This could make a 3 hive lockdown, for either aliens or marines, fairly easy, also close spawns could be problematic.
In essence, you have re-created summit, but moved two of the RNs from the outside of the map to the inside. This does make random close spawns a very big potential problem, as there isn't even a RN to separate them.
Of course, if you have fixed spawns, there is no problem there...
I have two map layouts I really like now. Any comments are always appreciated and are why I keep coming here.
<a href="http://imgur.com/aaio4" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/aaio4</a> 4 TN/4 RN layout with random spawns. This layout would make a very small map. It is functionally perfect as far as I can tell. It small size may make for some very fast gameplay, but there is only 8rts total which would slow things down some. I quite like this map but its small size seems almost boring to me. Probably be good in a competitive setting.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/iMIGL.png" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/iMIGL.png</a> 5 TN/5 RN layout with random spawns. This layout seems like it would be very entertaining. There is two RN between each TN except from the middle bottom. This layout compared to the previous is a bit bigger and would give me room to put in a lot of intricate hallway work.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2012
Your first pic has only 7 RN's and I think that is a perfect amount...
I have to make a point here, your layouts are overcomplicated, you think you are doing unique things, but your curves are confusing you... If I may demonstrate..
A layout just shows which item is connected to another. In your first pic, the layout would actually be drawn like this:
Actually it would be worse than that, but I couldn't fit any more lines in :P Here is an example showing all the TP's/RN's directly connected to the top left TP:
You have directly connected it to EVERY other point on the map...
In fact you have connected every node on your layout, directly to every other node.
I know you have drawn curves, and this is where you are confusing yourself. You don't realise what rooms are connected to each other. A layout should be drawn with simple lines so you can clearly see where you can get to from each point. It is not representative of the geometric design, only the connections between points. Connect RN-TP-RN etc, don't create pathways off them, that is done when building the map. Layout design is about direct connections only.
You will find it is very hard to make unique designs of layout. I mean how many different ways can you connect items together...
Well I'm currently working on a map with exactly the layout of your first image, so I quite like it! I agree with soul_rider and think that 4/7 is a very good arrangement for NS2. 5/8 is about as high as I would go now, personally.
Thanks for the input. I guess I did not know what a layout was. I have been trying to draw the map in a rough general layout as if pressing C in game. I guess I am trying to merge the layout and go right into general map design.
I am sure you very well understand what I am trying to do with these layout/designs but I figured I would show summit like how I have been doing these others. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/PhWX4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I was reading one of the map threads and it said you got to choose if you want to make a map that could be competitively used or make one just for fun. The first map layout/design I was trying to make it balanced by a lot of what I have read in this thread. I wanted to keep the RN count down and so on. The second layout/design I through out those restrictions to see what would come out. I personally like what it looks like and am making revisions. Most maps so far have 5TP and 4-5 RN. I understand you the cons of those designs from this thread but I really enjoy maps like docking and mineshaft even though they have too many RN.
I revised the second map to this. I prefer it like this. Everything is pretty much interconnected still. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/GUdJ6.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is a good representation of why I dislike Summit greatly. The imbalance of the Atrium hive. Atrium is the only techpoint which does not have a direct connection to CrossRoads. Also for my tastes, crossroads has far too many direct connections. It makes it easy to access from any location, except Atrium!
Here is your redesigned layout, showing you the true number of connection you have...
All you have done is reduced the connections to the bottom hive. All other points on your design link directly to all other points. Meaning there will be too many redundant areas/routes. This is not good design, and will produce a poor gameplay experience.
Here are some designs based on the number of TP/RN in your design:
Version 1 - Essentially a evenly connected Summit-type map with 5 TP/5RT around the outside of the circle.
Version 2 - A more separated map, along the lines of Veil, where the top 2 (MS) tech points are clearly separated from teh lower (AS) tech points by res nodes.
I would prefer the 2nd layout if I was going to make it myself, as I am not a fan of the Summit/Wheel design. These layouts show the connections between rooms, not the routes, or where they split. Although V2 can quite easily be a circle when it is made with a RN in the centre... The position of TP/RNs in a layout is not representative of where they will be in the actual map.
This is (a very much WIP) <i>one third</i> of a pillar/arch that will curve around a hallway forming a spinal shape when repeated along it. <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/reeke/gigerstylewip1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Yeah, it will be a mammoth sized project. in my head it's not 100% Giger style architecture, it's 40 - 50% Giger and the rest a mix of abandoned mine & standard NS architecture. As if they had mined into it while drilling/digging :]
I shall report back when I get the hallway test scene completed.
@Soul_Rider, I tried replying to your PM a couple of times today but it said your inbox is full, so il reply here -
It's going to be at least a few months before I'm looking to do anything character related. I'm currently just doing enviornment art because my portfolio is very out of date in that area, most stuff is 3 - 7 years old and doesn't represent my current ability level... not helpful when you're trying to find a new job! :P
So I've been toying with a map concept for some time. I've got a rough ideas for pretty much all the rooms sketched out, but I thought I would run the high level design past yall to get some opinions.
It should be mostly self explanatory. The central techpoint might require a few words though. The connecting hallways will be about as long as the ones elsewhere on the map. They loop around to connect at opposite ends of the techpoint, which will be a fairly long room. They've just been rendered as short straight lines to show the overall connections as simply as possible. Also every time 2 vent systems connect to a hallway, there wil be 2 entrances so the player has to at least briefly enter said hallway.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Hi :D
This map is going to have too many ways of getting around without coming across any of the main rooms. For example, I could get from the Top TP to the bottom TP, without coming across a RN or TP. You should be forcing players to move through the battle points, not allowing them to meander wherever they choose, without ever coming across a point that they need to contend.
I haven't finished my layout yet. There's a science lab in the making that I still can't decide where to place just yet because "story-wise" it just doesn't seem right to place it right next to an excavation site or pipeline access. I feel a need to separate the finer/cleaner parts of the map with the rougher/dirtier parts of the map.
The top left is where I got my corridor with the massive glass windows, its shadows and atmospheric lighting, really showing off the engines capabilities. It's a bit of a marine death trap because it's dark and along the ceiling there will be a grate which only skulks can climb on top of. Further down, (the "circle"), is where the pipelines are at. Even the room is made to look like pipes, again with grates, but this time on the floor. So skulks will be able to crawl underneath the feet of anyone walking topside. And then, there's the excavation site, which isn't really a square since most of the walls have been drilled/blown away for excavation purposes. This is where one of the tech points will be at. Primarily, it will be easier for aliens to hold this area than marines, unlike other tech points where it will be easier for marines to hold it.
What I'm trying to do is create certain areas of the map easier for either side to move in, get and hold. In this case, of what I've made so far, on this side of the map, aliens will find it much easier to move, hide and wait, in the corridors, and the tech point. On a different tech point the aliens won't find it so easy. This is to make it more based on what the commander chooses to do, strategically, not only about being the quickest, and to keep pushing relentlessly, but to move, build and push in the right direction as opposed to the wrong one.
Back to this project, I'm testing some different base texture/colour schemes for map props, which need to be fairly monochrome. These are going to improve 10X, but you can see were I'm going :]
<!--quoteo(post=2041757:date=Dec 7 2012, 06:41 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reeke @ Dec 7 2012, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2041757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Back to this project, I'm testing some different base texture/colour schemes for map props, which need to be fairly monochrome. These are going to improve 10X, but you can see were I'm going :]
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/sh/rkmib0wj0ij5one/RPoC82v2tM/gpctest.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its beautiful!
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited February 2013
I think for my next map I'll make something using the Biodome texture set. A relatively small map; probably only 4 tech points. It'd be set in a tree-top facility in a massive forest.
Something vaguely like Endor, but with stupidly massive trees.
Speaking of massive trees, the "thing" I want to try with this map is not having a ring layout (like Summit). Instead, I want to try a U shaped layout with the playable area wrapped around three sides of a giant tree (and a small, unfriendly path around the top of the map)
Here's a rough idea of the layout:
Oh and it won't just be a single path around the bottom and sides of the map, it'll be a braid of 2 hallways and a vent.
[EDIT] The double node (RP3) will look something like the middle of 2fort
VonDoomKnee deep in the latencyJoin Date: 2009-10-08Member: 68989Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited February 2013
Reeke, those are some sick models you are sitting on, seeing them in a map would be extremely awesome. You might have to lower the polygon count to make the map playable though. But even lower poly versions will still look extremely nice with good textures, spec and normal maps
Comments
Interestingly, I was wrong, the powernode isn't a trigger but -
Hydra, Mine, Sentry, Shade all have triggers for their attacks/effects, and of course there is the 'Natural Causes' Death trigger.
Just let me know what custom triggers would be required and I'll make a start when I can.... I can update the trigger.lua to give it extra functionality, or create sub-classed triggers..
Weldables?
being able to link multiple triggers too it as well eg:
Death trigger to the button/panel for when the airlock decompresses the room.
Triggers to cinematics would also be awesome for atmosphere. Like the Klaxton cinematic. when the airlock decompressed.
If you could figure a way to link triggers to faces that made them invisible and noclip / players pass through the face. - Thinking forcefields.
Would also love to be able to link triggers too power nodes.
And a way for commanders to be able to activate triggers from a command chair / hive.
If someone does mod a trigger system plase add in a timer system also. So you can have things like cinematics timed and deadman switches and such.
My first trigger was a damage trigger. However it doesn't do any damage... Trying to figure out why, once this is working I'll move onto other triggers :D
*realises blindness, takes one eye back for cyclopsish sight*
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/uozII.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
In essence, you have re-created summit, but moved two of the RNs from the outside of the map to the inside. This does make random close spawns a very big potential problem, as there isn't even a RN to separate them.
Of course, if you have fixed spawns, there is no problem there...
<a href="http://imgur.com/aaio4" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/aaio4</a>
4 TN/4 RN layout with random spawns. This layout would make a very small map. It is functionally perfect as far as I can tell. It small size may make for some very fast gameplay, but there is only 8rts total which would slow things down some. I quite like this map but its small size seems almost boring to me. Probably be good in a competitive setting.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/iMIGL.png" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/iMIGL.png</a>
5 TN/5 RN layout with random spawns. This layout seems like it would be very entertaining. There is two RN between each TN except from the middle bottom. This layout compared to the previous is a bit bigger and would give me room to put in a lot of intricate hallway work.
I have to make a point here, your layouts are overcomplicated, you think you are doing unique things, but your curves are confusing you... If I may demonstrate..
A layout just shows which item is connected to another. In your first pic, the layout would actually be drawn like this:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/aaio4sr.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
In your 2nd pic, the layout would be drawn like this:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/image2sr2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Actually it would be worse than that, but I couldn't fit any more lines in :P Here is an example showing all the TP's/RN's directly connected to the top left TP:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/iMIGLsr.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You have directly connected it to EVERY other point on the map...
In fact you have connected every node on your layout, directly to every other node.
I know you have drawn curves, and this is where you are confusing yourself. You don't realise what rooms are connected to each other. A layout should be drawn with simple lines so you can clearly see where you can get to from each point. It is not representative of the geometric design, only the connections between points. Connect RN-TP-RN etc, don't create pathways off them, that is done when building the map. Layout design is about direct connections only.
You will find it is very hard to make unique designs of layout. I mean how many different ways can you connect items together...
I am sure you very well understand what I am trying to do with these layout/designs but I figured I would show summit like how I have been doing these others.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/PhWX4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I was reading one of the map threads and it said you got to choose if you want to make a map that could be competitively used or make one just for fun. The first map layout/design I was trying to make it balanced by a lot of what I have read in this thread. I wanted to keep the RN count down and so on. The second layout/design I through out those restrictions to see what would come out. I personally like what it looks like and am making revisions. Most maps so far have 5TP and 4-5 RN. I understand you the cons of those designs from this thread but I really enjoy maps like docking and mineshaft even though they have too many RN.
I revised the second map to this. I prefer it like this. Everything is pretty much interconnected still.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/GUdJ6.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My gosh I miscounted how many rt's. Fail.
Here is a layout of summit, in a layout diagram:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/SummitLayout.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is a good representation of why I dislike Summit greatly. The imbalance of the Atrium hive. Atrium is the only techpoint which does not have a direct connection to CrossRoads. Also for my tastes, crossroads has far too many direct connections. It makes it easy to access from any location, except Atrium!
Here is your redesigned layout, showing you the true number of connection you have...
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/GUdJ6sr.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
All you have done is reduced the connections to the bottom hive. All other points on your design link directly to all other points. Meaning there will be too many redundant areas/routes. This is not good design, and will produce a poor gameplay experience.
Here are some designs based on the number of TP/RN in your design:
Version 1 - Essentially a evenly connected Summit-type map with 5 TP/5RT around the outside of the circle.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/srsuggest1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Version 2 - A more separated map, along the lines of Veil, where the top 2 (MS) tech points are clearly separated from teh lower (AS) tech points by res nodes.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/srsuggest2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I would prefer the 2nd layout if I was going to make it myself, as I am not a fan of the Summit/Wheel design. These layouts show the connections between rooms, not the routes, or where they split. Although V2 can quite easily be a circle when it is made with a RN in the centre... The position of TP/RNs in a layout is not representative of where they will be in the actual map.
This is (a very much WIP) <i>one third</i> of a pillar/arch that will curve around a hallway forming a spinal shape when repeated along it.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/reeke/gigerstylewip1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But it is going to be a lot of work to do this for the whole map as mentioned above. :D
I shall report back when I get the hallway test scene completed.
It's going to be at least a few months before I'm looking to do anything character related. I'm currently just doing enviornment art because my portfolio is very out of date in that area, most stuff is 3 - 7 years old and doesn't represent my current ability level... not helpful when you're trying to find a new job! :P
Neat !!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/NON9Y.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It should be mostly self explanatory. The central techpoint might require a few words though. The connecting hallways will be about as long as the ones elsewhere on the map. They loop around to connect at opposite ends of the techpoint, which will be a fairly long room. They've just been rendered as short straight lines to show the overall connections as simply as possible. Also every time 2 vent systems connect to a hallway, there wil be 2 entrances so the player has to at least briefly enter said hallway.
This map is going to have too many ways of getting around without coming across any of the main rooms. For example, I could get from the Top TP to the bottom TP, without coming across a RN or TP. You should be forcing players to move through the battle points, not allowing them to meander wherever they choose, without ever coming across a point that they need to contend.
(I'd show all three sections joined up like they will be in-game, but my comp cant handle all three high poly meshes at once)
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/sh/rkmib0wj0ij5one/5r6VLjLVih/joint1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/sh/rkmib0wj0ij5one/O-ycYO-GbQ/high1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/sh/rkmib0wj0ij5one/HdDwOJOjc9/low1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7253/sggds.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The top left is where I got my corridor with the massive glass windows, its shadows and atmospheric lighting, really showing off the engines capabilities. It's a bit of a marine death trap because it's dark and along the ceiling there will be a grate which only skulks can climb on top of. Further down, (the "circle"), is where the pipelines are at. Even the room is made to look like pipes, again with grates, but this time on the floor. So skulks will be able to crawl underneath the feet of anyone walking topside. And then, there's the excavation site, which isn't really a square since most of the walls have been drilled/blown away for excavation purposes. This is where one of the tech points will be at. Primarily, it will be easier for aliens to hold this area than marines, unlike other tech points where it will be easier for marines to hold it.
What I'm trying to do is create certain areas of the map easier for either side to move in, get and hold. In this case, of what I've made so far, on this side of the map, aliens will find it much easier to move, hide and wait, in the corridors, and the tech point. On a different tech point the aliens won't find it so easy. This is to make it more based on what the commander chooses to do, strategically, not only about being the quickest, and to keep pushing relentlessly, but to move, build and push in the right direction as opposed to the wrong one.
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/sh/rkmib0wj0ij5one/RPoC82v2tM/gpctest.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/sh/rkmib0wj0ij5one/RPoC82v2tM/gpctest.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its beautiful!
Something vaguely like Endor, but with stupidly massive trees.
Speaking of massive trees, the "thing" I want to try with this map is not having a ring layout (like Summit). Instead, I want to try a U shaped layout with the playable area wrapped around three sides of a giant tree (and a small, unfriendly path around the top of the map)
Here's a rough idea of the layout:
Oh and it won't just be a single path around the bottom and sides of the map, it'll be a braid of 2 hallways and a vent.
[EDIT] The double node (RP3) will look something like the middle of 2fort