I have been playing around with map ideas in my head for a few weeks. Tried drawing a few layouts. None of my ideas seemed to be anything. This thread has been a huge help for organizing my thoughts and had many great tips. I think I finally have a general layout I actually like. I don't havn't read any of the guidelines yet. I having become serious enough about actually making a map... yet. Anyways, here is the my first general map layout idea.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/fvQ1h.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> The tower platform, in the center, can be gotten to by marines with jetpacks. They then can get to the upper platform, with jetpacks, but only from the tower platform. Obviously, whoever controls the center of the map controls the game. Encouraging lots of fights in the center of the maps. The vent on the alien side leads from the upper platform via ladder. The vent on the marine side can be gotten to by skulks wall walking underneath the center area. The center area is meant to be a big open air(biodome whatever) with space underneath. Like over a cliff or something. The center area would have some big communications tower.
You can see the theme I am kinda going for. I am trying to work a layout around a big open air communications tower in the center of a map. I expect the actual layout to change a lot.
They can get to the middle of the map. If they have jetpacks they can get into a vent that leads to the alien hive. The tower platform is a small platform around the tower, but there would be some area similar to landing pad underneath but not landing pad. The black is the paths. Aliens have two entrances, 3 if you count the vent, to the center but marines have one.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I've been considering remaking the NS1 map ns_hydrosity, but NS2 doesn't have water. So, instead I was thinking of making a dry version of hydrosity - ns2_drydosity :p
It'd be set in the same water processing facility, but where hydrosity had dark grey clouds, constant rain and running water, drydosity would have scorching, harsh sunlight, dry winds and a general look of abandonment & desolation. I think I might also be able to have some fun with high-contrast natural lighting setups, for when the power nodes get taken out.
I haven't thought much about the layout yet, but I do know that it won't be a 1:1 remake of the layout of hydrosity. I'd collapse some hallways & explore some other parts of the facility.
If it is random start with M1 - 2 and A1 - 2 , then i could see a (possible) issue where as they both spawn at the 2nd points, making them only one (supposed) room from each other, leading to quick early game combat, and could end up making the matches very short and rush prone. I also think that by having 3 entry ways into the Neutral Tech point would make it a less desirable one due to how vulnerable it would be.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The design makes it too easy for both teams to hold at least 3 res nodes. Overall I think you need to look at reconfiguring the layout, also with no res node, the neutral hive probably won't be used much. Personally I'd say rework the map slightly, but only have 4 Tech nodes, and maybe 6-8 Res nodes.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Here's a random idea for a tech-point/resource node setup. I'm not planning it for a particular map (and I'm not even sure it's a good idea), but I want to hear what everyone thinks about it.
*drumroll*
<b>Tech-point + Double res-node</b>
It would probably appear near the middle of the map and be really difficult to defend (lots of entrances & line of sight blockers). In fact, the 'safest' strategy would be to pretty much ignore it. But.. there's always the chance that the other team might go for it..
Do you think this room would be worth including in a map? How do you think its presence would affect the dynamic of the map?
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Without too much thought, the problem is making something hard to defend, generally it means making it hard to defend for Aliens OR Marines, as their playstyles are essentially opposites.
It would really entirely depend on how the room played within the concept of the rest of the map.
If you had a 4TP map, for example, a Fixed MS, 2 Random AS and this Double Res-TP as a non-starting location, then the room becomes an essential part of the play. If you have a 5/6TP map (and the more experience I get with NS2 the more I believe maps should only have 4TP's), then there is always potential that the room will be/not be used, but it would be impossible to speculate how it would play in those scenarios, without having at least a layout to run from.
Supposing that the room was successfully designed as to be 'impossible' to defend, I think you would wind up with forward bases being set up as close as possible to the double res TP.
Actually, what'd be an interesting variation on this layout is if the direct path from the TPs on the left & right to the central TP was removed; which would mean that irrespective of which other TP a team was based in, it would still be a long walk to the central TP.
There are only so many good story plots one can make. That is why so many movies, books, games and very similar plots. General map design I think may be similar. It is very very hard to think of something original that is also good.
I like the idea mouse. Something really hard to defend that also is could be vital to winning the game. The map layout I posted was similar in that regard, expect that someone had to have the center.
I have been playing with the idea where two key techpoints are directly connected, although opposite parts of the map. Where one side has a clean strait line to help the marines defend, and one side has lots of objects for the aliens to hide in. So in a sense, whoever controlled it had a strong advantage.
Mouse that idea is definitely worth testing, but could it not lead the map to become a "He who controls the center wins the game" scenario? Where the center becomes a big tug of war until one team wins it and just roflstomps the other team? That would be my only concern about that (well that and it could become a self sufficient base, Marine would only need that area to hold off for the game).
<!--quoteo(post=1976334:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:14 AM:name=AssasinxXx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AssasinxXx @ Sep 12 2012, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mouse that idea is definitely worth testing, but could it not lead the map to become a "He who controls the center wins the game" scenario? Where the center becomes a big tug of war until one team wins it and just roflstomps the other team? That would be my only concern about that (well that and it could become a self sufficient base, Marine would only need that area to hold off for the game).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tbh that is what I like about the map idea. He who controls the center controls the game. Causing a big tug o war. It is not an idea for all maps, but maybe one or two. Veils nanogrid gets fought over a lot but not quite the same idea.
The idea of that is nice, but that only downside would be it leading to quick games where its just Start game Rush If your team controls center = Win If other team controls center = F4
Though i think it would be worse if Marines get it, they can turtle already, imagine with an extra RT x.X
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
If you go back to the original map I made in this thread, you will see that I actually did this already, with a central Double res tech point...
The RN were placed just outside the Tech Room, but the tech room is barely big enough for a hive, so the nodes take 5 secs to walk to from the Tech Point. I never finished this map, but I am looking to get back working on it, but cutting it down to only 4 TPs.
Note in this screenshot the RN to the top-right of the center techpont has it's connection path missing, but it is connected directly north of the room exit.
It's greyboxed with nearly no detail, maybe one object per room.
I was contemplating the idea of making the hallways essy to hold but difficult to attack. playing with long straight stretches that have lots of vents that connect to the same hallway in some cases or ceiling recesses over corners.
The idea being that as a marine running down a hallway exposes you to any waiting skulks while a skulk has to be cautious because to advance they need to enter the marine line of fire.
My big worry is that this is too skulk friendly and that higher life forms will have issues. Obviously, I can't use this for all my hallways but it might be fun to make a few of them like the ones on the left edge of the map work this way.
Thoughts?
Noticed I am missing a power node on that overview. lso feeling like teh tech rooms are pretty small in some cases.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Initial thoughts on your map, is that would be heavily marine biased.
As for layout, it's basically a summit type map, with 4tps outside a central 5th, so if the distances are roughly equal, it could become a popular map. This map is not too skulk friendly, almost every person makes a map thinking it is alien biased, and it nearly always turns out marine biased...
Fill it up a bit and see how it goes. I would say the rooms are a bit small, but then that makes up for all the straight routes between them. Get the map layout finalised, lightly texture and model it, then release it for testing. See how you get on there.
Firstly, thanks to AssasinxXx and Soul_Ryder for the feedback, sorry for not responding to it before today.
I've decided to move the layout to the back burner for the time being due to some of the issues you have both highlighted and also because of the potential for marine turtling as well as some concerns I had over a very fast second hive.
While I was messing around trying to fix that layout I came upon this set up:
I feel this has some potential but I'm a little unsure about a few aspects of it, such as:
1. Should I fix the marine spawn at Spawn #1 and have Spawn #2 and #3 as random alien or have it so that the three spawns are random?
2. In order to try and make rushes from spawn to spawn less viable I'd have to extend the distance with winding corridors and rooms. Would this feel contrived with the lack of resource nodes and techpoints in these areas?
3. While I am fond of double RTs, would the layout work better if I replaced it with a fifth TP and RT? I suppose my main worry is that it would be too easy for marines to secure 5 RTs from Spawn #1.
I know I've missed others but I neglected to write them down when I thought of them and now I can't remember them! So I was wondering what the community could see that I have missed and what your thoughts are on the general viability of the layout.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The layout of your map is certainly interesting, and would promote some interesting choices. The single biggest issue which I can pick out from the design is the number of RT's. If marines had 5 RTs and Aliens had 3. Both teams would be progressing through their tech trees fairly quickly. With 9 RT's, that means too much res flow too quickly, meaning fast teching, no early game, and probably a fairly short mid-end game.
How about removing the Double RT, and moving the Neutral TP more into the centre. This would give you 4tp 7RTs and mean that teams would have to fight to get their fast tech. If either team held 5rts when there is only 7, they would truly deserve to win.
It's only a suggestion, but I definitely think you should begin to work on this map. Your design will likely change once you start working through it.
Hey sorry I've got some newbie questions. Have not mapped since CSS.
1) What triggers can be tied to power nodes? I've had a thought for a map based on a spaceship, and one of the rooms would be decompressed. When power is turned on in adjacent room you can enter it, as the containment shields will turn on.
Idea is that it will give marines a shorter access route to hives, alternate route is much longer. Aliens will need to pressure this room. Will have vent so quick access for lower aliens to keep pressure.
2) Can I kill people who are in the room that decompresses? Can I suck them out of the room or will I simply have to kill them?
<!--quoteo(post=1981210:date=Sep 21 2012, 08:53 AM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Sep 21 2012, 08:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey sorry I've got some newbie questions. Have not mapped since CSS.
1) What triggers can be tied to power nodes? I've had a thought for a map based on a spaceship, and one of the rooms would be decompressed. When power is turned on in adjacent room you can enter it, as the containment shields will turn on.
Idea is that it will give marines a shorter access route to hives, alternate route is much longer. Aliens will need to pressure this room. Will have vent so quick access for lower aliens to keep pressure.
2) Can I kill people who are in the room that decompresses? Can I suck them out of the room or will I simply have to kill them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) None. There's no trigger system.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
Damn, this thread is annoying me now.......
Since I started poking around in here again recently, I couldn't help but have a look at the map I had given up on....
Now I am working on it again, but in very small pieces. It is going to take an awful lot of work. I have deleted all the occlusion geometry, and will probably need to start most of the map again, but I am working with what I have so far and this is the new version of ns2_impact.
Note it has gone from a 6TP map down to a 4TP map. I am debating whether to cut the current 8 res nodes, down to 7, to make res control/defence extremely important.
Here is a screenshot of the current re-working as it stands...
I've considered your proposed changes soul_ryder and I think that you're right about reducing the map down to a 4/7 setup. I'll start a seperate thread once I have some of the pre-production stuff out of the way and actually have something to show. Thanks for the help and advice.
Well, yeah, you could mod a trigger system kinda easily (and I've been tempted to give it a try), what I meant is that vanilla NS2 doesn't have anything remotely similar to what NS1/HL had.
Comments
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/fvQ1h.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The tower platform, in the center, can be gotten to by marines with jetpacks. They then can get to the upper platform, with jetpacks, but only from the tower platform. Obviously, whoever controls the center of the map controls the game. Encouraging lots of fights in the center of the maps. The vent on the alien side leads from the upper platform via ladder. The vent on the marine side can be gotten to by skulks wall walking underneath the center area. The center area is meant to be a big open air(biodome whatever) with space underneath. Like over a cliff or something. The center area would have some big communications tower.
You can see the theme I am kinda going for. I am trying to work a layout around a big open air communications tower in the center of a map. I expect the actual layout to change a lot.
It'd be set in the same water processing facility, but where hydrosity had dark grey clouds, constant rain and running water, drydosity would have scorching, harsh sunlight, dry winds and a general look of abandonment & desolation. I think I might also be able to have some fun with high-contrast natural lighting setups, for when the power nodes get taken out.
I haven't thought much about the layout yet, but I do know that it won't be a 1:1 remake of the layout of hydrosity. I'd collapse some hallways & explore some other parts of the facility.
Anyway, I've been working on a layout template for a level I've got in mind and have gotten to the point where I would like to ask for some feedback.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/r68HX.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I have a number of concerns about it, but I would like to see what others think before I go into those.
Any feedback is very much appreciated.
OS
*drumroll*
<b>Tech-point + Double res-node</b>
It would probably appear near the middle of the map and be really difficult to defend (lots of entrances & line of sight blockers). In fact, the 'safest' strategy would be to pretty much ignore it. But.. there's always the chance that the other team might go for it..
Do you think this room would be worth including in a map?
How do you think its presence would affect the dynamic of the map?
It would really entirely depend on how the room played within the concept of the rest of the map.
If you had a 4TP map, for example, a Fixed MS, 2 Random AS and this Double Res-TP as a non-starting location, then the room becomes an essential part of the play.
If you have a 5/6TP map (and the more experience I get with NS2 the more I believe maps should only have 4TP's), then there is always potential that the room will be/not be used, but it would be impossible to speculate how it would play in those scenarios, without having at least a layout to run from.
<img src="http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2905/doublerestpfigure8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Supposing that the room was successfully designed as to be 'impossible' to defend, I think you would wind up with forward bases being set up as close as possible to the double res TP.
Actually, what'd be an interesting variation on this layout is if the direct path from the TPs on the left & right to the central TP was removed; which would mean that irrespective of which other TP a team was based in, it would still be a long walk to the central TP.
I like the idea mouse. Something really hard to defend that also is could be vital to winning the game. The map layout I posted was similar in that regard, expect that someone had to have the center.
I have been playing with the idea where two key techpoints are directly connected, although opposite parts of the map. Where one side has a clean strait line to help the marines defend, and one side has lots of objects for the aliens to hide in. So in a sense, whoever controlled it had a strong advantage.
Tbh that is what I like about the map idea. He who controls the center controls the game. Causing a big tug o war. It is not an idea for all maps, but maybe one or two. Veils nanogrid gets fought over a lot but not quite the same idea.
Start game
Rush
If your team controls center = Win
If other team controls center = F4
Though i think it would be worse if Marines get it, they can turtle already, imagine with an extra RT x.X
The RN were placed just outside the Tech Room, but the tech room is barely big enough for a hive, so the nodes take 5 secs to walk to from the Tech Point. I never finished this map, but I am looking to get back working on it, but cutting it down to only 4 TPs.
Note in this screenshot the RN to the top-right of the center techpont has it's connection path missing, but it is connected directly north of the room exit.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/2012-04-04_00002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://onebit.us/x/i/hBFjwpUUWX.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It's greyboxed with nearly no detail, maybe one object per room.
I was contemplating the idea of making the hallways essy to hold but difficult to attack. playing with long straight stretches that have lots of vents that connect to the same hallway in some cases or ceiling recesses over corners.
The idea being that as a marine running down a hallway exposes you to any waiting skulks while a skulk has to be cautious because to advance they need to enter the marine line of fire.
My big worry is that this is too skulk friendly and that higher life forms will have issues. Obviously, I can't use this for all my hallways but it might be fun to make a few of them like the ones on the left edge of the map work this way.
Thoughts?
Noticed I am missing a power node on that overview. lso feeling like teh tech rooms are pretty small in some cases.
As for layout, it's basically a summit type map, with 4tps outside a central 5th, so if the distances are roughly equal, it could become a popular map. This map is not too skulk friendly, almost every person makes a map thinking it is alien biased, and it nearly always turns out marine biased...
Fill it up a bit and see how it goes. I would say the rooms are a bit small, but then that makes up for all the straight routes between them. Get the map layout finalised, lightly texture and model it, then release it for testing. See how you get on there.
I've decided to move the layout to the back burner for the time being due to some of the issues you have both highlighted and also because of the potential for marine turtling as well as some concerns I had over a very fast second hive.
While I was messing around trying to fix that layout I came upon this set up:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/8Oskj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I feel this has some potential but I'm a little unsure about a few aspects of it, such as:
1. Should I fix the marine spawn at Spawn #1 and have Spawn #2 and #3 as random alien or have it so that the three spawns are random?
2. In order to try and make rushes from spawn to spawn less viable I'd have to extend the distance with winding corridors and rooms. Would this feel contrived with the lack of resource nodes and techpoints in these areas?
3. While I am fond of double RTs, would the layout work better if I replaced it with a fifth TP and RT? I suppose my main worry is that it would be too easy for marines to secure 5 RTs from Spawn #1.
I know I've missed others but I neglected to write them down when I thought of them and now I can't remember them! So I was wondering what the community could see that I have missed and what your thoughts are on the general viability of the layout.
Thank you in advance
OS
How about removing the Double RT, and moving the Neutral TP more into the centre. This would give you 4tp 7RTs and mean that teams would have to fight to get their fast tech. If either team held 5rts when there is only 7, they would truly deserve to win.
It's only a suggestion, but I definitely think you should begin to work on this map. Your design will likely change once you start working through it.
1) What triggers can be tied to power nodes? I've had a thought for a map based on a spaceship, and one of the rooms would be decompressed. When power is turned on in adjacent room you can enter it, as the containment shields will turn on.
Idea is that it will give marines a shorter access route to hives, alternate route is much longer. Aliens will need to pressure this room. Will have vent so quick access for lower aliens to keep pressure.
2) Can I kill people who are in the room that decompresses? Can I suck them out of the room or will I simply have to kill them?
1) What triggers can be tied to power nodes? I've had a thought for a map based on a spaceship, and one of the rooms would be decompressed. When power is turned on in adjacent room you can enter it, as the containment shields will turn on.
Idea is that it will give marines a shorter access route to hives, alternate route is much longer. Aliens will need to pressure this room. Will have vent so quick access for lower aliens to keep pressure.
2) Can I kill people who are in the room that decompresses? Can I suck them out of the room or will I simply have to kill them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) None. There's no trigger system.
2) Well... since you can't trigger anything...
2) Well... since you can't trigger anything...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah damn... well now I've lost interest in mapping for NS2 lol. Are there any plans for a trigger system?
Since I started poking around in here again recently, I couldn't help but have a look at the map I had given up on....
Now I am working on it again, but in very small pieces. It is going to take an awful lot of work. I have deleted all the occlusion geometry, and will probably need to start most of the map again, but I am working with what I have so far and this is the new version of ns2_impact.
Note it has gone from a 6TP map down to a 4TP map. I am debating whether to cut the current 8 res nodes, down to 7, to make res control/defence extremely important.
Here is a screenshot of the current re-working as it stands...
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Soulrefuge/2012-09-21_00002_zpse11e0211.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Loads more to go, but I think I can make something interesting out of it :)
Note Marine 2 is now just a res node, and maybe not even that soon.
2) Well... since you can't trigger anything...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't trigger anything hmm.....
Then what are Trigger.lua and TriggerMixin.lua for? The join team entities is a trigger for example.....
The powernodes trigger the lights...
It may need a little bit of work, but triggers are certainly available in the spark engine :)
I would think that would be the best place to start a mod as most of the works already done.