<!--quoteo(post=1890063:date=Dec 13 2011, 06:24 PM:name=Panigg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Panigg @ Dec 13 2011, 06:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guess it is a good idea in theory but hard to do practically and thats why nobody did it yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mount & Blade. Get it, be in awe, be even more disgusted at Oblivion and Skyrim's melee combat. It is the apogee of FPS melee fighting systems. It has directional swings, thrusts, blocks (with weapons and shields) along with horseback combat (and archery!). So awesome in every respect.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
So weird, Fallout 3 had it's issues with AI not pathfinding towards your location, but usually they can and the fights are fun. Still silly sticksNstones are used against heavy firepower though, oh well the radiation must've gotten to them :P
<i>I've even had an instance where some guy was on a rooftop thing and couldn't hit me because my cover was beyond his sniping skills. Then he just shouted some obscenities in my general direction and walked into the building. I thought he'd given up, so I continued with my looting shenanigans for my daily Nuka Cola fix. Only to be surprised, he actually traversed the entire building and commenced the fight once more from this favorable position
-I can just imagine him going downstairs with in his mind *That damn ######, stealing my stuff on my watch. There will be none of that dammit. If it's the last thing I'll do* Little did he know it was indeed the last thing he ever did...</i>
Perhaps the areas are too detailed and they're using more then needed for pathfinding?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Currently in the <b>alpha</b> stage you can see other players (appearing as a spectral horse), you can also chat with everybody.
Known bugs :
- In UI mode some keys are sill enabled such as Journal and Wait, you might want to bind these keys to keys that are not needed in the UI (I personally use £ and µ). - Other player's movements are very awkward and animations are not played yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1890402:date=Dec 15 2011, 11:47 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Dec 15 2011, 11:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's really simple, Witcher 2 is just a lot better at everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I literally could not play that past the dwarf city because you get exactly one weapon and one way to use it.
Not to mention either the difficulty is either tedious because you die a lot or tedious because you just mash the attack button until everything dies.
I got really sick of walking to a place and hitting everything with the sword until and then talking to someone and then hitting more things with the sword.
I mean, skyrim at least has interesting level design, varied enemies, varied weapons, full movement. It certainly doesn't lack for amusing ways to kill your enemies which is what I look for in an action RPG.
It's not quite as good as dark messiah on the melee combat level but that's not too surprising, it has more random cool crap in it though.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2011
I completely agree on Dark Messiah's combat being better. In my opinion it's the best melee combat of any game I've played. The game itself was a bit lackluster, but the melee combat was pretty awesome. I wish more games took cues from it.
The hits felt like they were actually connecting, it was satisfying to hit someone, and you could tell when you actually did some damage
Whereas with Skyrim, and most other games involving melee combat, you wail on things hoping that you're hitting them, and usually the only way to tell that you actually hit them is by watching their HP. Each hit is near-meaningless and unsatisfying, just a means to kill the enemy.
It's beginning to show its age though. Graphically it is of course outdated, and the gameplay is starting to feel, for lack of a better word, "old-fashioned." I wish someone would take the concept and run with it though. Bungie was never able to do the game justice because the studio was crippled financially and because of the technical limitations of the time.
In response to that picture: I had fun, and telling me "you weren't SUPPOSED to have fun and here is why" won't convince me. I agree with some of those points, but not all of them. But I will say this: The more I have played Skyrim, the more disappointed I have become.
It's not even the crashes. Sure the game has crashed about a dozen times for me, but Steam says that I have played it for 185 hours by now. That is a LOT of time. That is one crash every fifteen hours or so. That isn't good. That's a lot more crashes than there should be. But it's not terrible either. And thanks to autosaving I have never lost more than five or ten minutes to a crash. So I can deal with that. I'm not happy, but I can deal, although I am worried that the crashes seem to have increased in frequency since release.
But it's all the small bugs and glitches. Broken quest scripting. An NPC that's critical to a quest (and an important quest too, not just a little side quest), but who refuses to talk to you simply because you completed a different quest first - end result, your can't complete that quest now. Another NPC who WILL talk to you but doesn't have the dialogue option you need - so now you can't complete THAT quest, and Skyrim remains forever divided. A bug that causes the "frost damage" sound to endlessly loop on your character every time you load the game. The set bonus for wearing a full set of ebony armour, missing. The list goes on. Bethesda has a track record for this. And they said they had learned from their mistakes and were being proactive this time around. But that was a bald-faced lie. Out of all the bugs above, which ones have been fixed? The ebony armour one.
That's the real failing of the game. They shouldn't have released this game at all, they should've pulled a Rocksteady. They should've put a content freeze on it and spent a year doing nothing but QA. A year of nothing but testing and polish and bug fixes. But why do that when you can save the money and just sell it anyway.
Did I enjoy the game? Yes. Undeniably yes. But I am warier of Bethesda than ever before. The concept of QA is utterly alien to them, and it's time I acknowledged that and stopped rewarding them for skimping on it.
Spending a year to fix minor bugs seems rather impractical.
It seems far more sensible to fix as many as you can with ease, then release it, then use the consumers to catch the rest and fix them, or wait for modders to do it. All TES games usually get unofficial patches to fix bugs like that.
I don't really care whether bethesda releases bugless games as long as I get a fun game out of it, if I want all the bugfixes I can go get mods to fix them. It's hardly an onerous task. Considering I can get 100+ hours out of a TES game and the money I spent on it, a few hours spent fixing the odd bug and downloading/setting up mods doesn't seem unreasonable.
I'd much rather do that than wait a year for the game and have that be a year bethesda can't spend working on actual useful things like DLCs or expansions or new games.
Minor bugs? Did you miss the part where entire quest lines BREAK? Or where the same sound effect loops endlessly? I'm sure that sounds minor to you. Wait until it hits your main quest and you're forced to start a new character. Tell me if it's still minor then.
Modders? The construction set isn't even out yet. And is it our task to fix bugs now? If I'm their QA employee now, do I get a paycheck? Why am I even paying for this if I am not entitled to expect anything for it?
Wow, it's almost like Skyrim is exactly like Oblivion, and it took you morons five years to realize I was right. Heck, the only reason Fallout 3 remotely worked was because it was gun-centric which meant a lot of the stupid flaws with their combat system could be ignored.
<!--quoteo(post=1891673:date=Dec 26 2011, 02:05 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Dec 26 2011, 02:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Purchased on sale, will wait for the patches and mods to fix things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you tried it? Many people aren't experiencing any bugs and those that are can usually play through.
<!--quoteo(post=1891604:date=Dec 25 2011, 01:44 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Dec 25 2011, 01:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1891604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Minor bugs? Did you miss the part where entire quest lines BREAK? Or where the same sound effect loops endlessly? I'm sure that sounds minor to you. Wait until it hits your main quest and you're forced to start a new character. Tell me if it's still minor then.
Modders? The construction set isn't even out yet. And is it our task to fix bugs now? If I'm their QA employee now, do I get a paycheck? Why am I even paying for this if I am not entitled to expect anything for it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've started like four times already, and haven't gone any further in the main quest than getting fus ro dah.
If a quest doesn't work, so what? There's other quests.
The whole point of the game is there's a crapload of stuff to do, and 90% of it works fine, so go do it.
Honestly you're acting like this is some sort of linear game that if there is one bug the entire game is unplayable. The running around works, there's dungeons to explore, stuff to buy, stuff to kill, sidequests to do, dragons to murder and dissect, shouts to find, spells to cast, cities to investigate, loot to acquire, and generally a massive game to play.
I am literally tripping over quest hooks everywhere I go, you cannot seriously tell me that the game is not playable and that every single time you try to do anything it doesn't work.
Complaining that a quest doesn't work is like complaining that one match in the box doesn't have a head therefore you can't use the matches to light fires.
Let's say you want to do the thieves guild quests. A quest doesn't work, and since it's a linear quest line you can't just ignore that one and continue. The entire remaining sequence of quests is now inaccessible. That's kind of highly annoying when you wanted to play a thief-y character.
Let's say you want to do the war in skyrim quests, but Legate Rikke refuses to talk to you. Since she is critical to the entire quest line, you are locked out of that and you can't liberate/conquer Skyrim.
Yes, both of those have happened to me. In the same game. Those aren't small side quests, those are the big showy setpieces of the game. No, I am not the only one, quick searches have turned up others with the same problems, but no solutions except "here's a possible workaround that you can use if you know about it ahead of time so try starting a new character."
How much is too much, Chris? Does the game have to start erasing random files from my harddrive before you'll concede that it may have flaws?
Comments
Mount & Blade. Get it, be in awe, be even more disgusted at Oblivion and Skyrim's melee combat. It is the apogee of FPS melee fighting systems. It has directional swings, thrusts, blocks (with weapons and shields) along with horseback combat (and archery!). So awesome in every respect.
--Scythe--
P.S. Yes, blocks are directional too.
<i>I've even had an instance where some guy was on a rooftop thing and couldn't hit me because my cover was beyond his sniping skills. Then he just shouted some obscenities in my general direction and walked into the building. I thought he'd given up, so I continued with my looting shenanigans for my daily Nuka Cola fix. Only to be surprised, he actually traversed the entire building and commenced the fight once more from this favorable position
-I can just imagine him going downstairs with in his mind *That damn ######, stealing my stuff on my watch. There will be none of that dammit. If it's the last thing I'll do* Little did he know it was indeed the last thing he ever did...</i>
Perhaps the areas are too detailed and they're using more then needed for pathfinding?
<a href="http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3592" target="_blank">http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3592</a>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gkKQYRRfAoA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gkKQYRRfAoA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Known bugs :
- In UI mode some keys are sill enabled such as Journal and Wait, you might want to bind these keys to keys that are not needed in the UI (I personally use £ and µ).
- Other player's movements are very awkward and animations are not played yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this is WITHOUT the creation kit.
I literally could not play that past the dwarf city because you get exactly one weapon and one way to use it.
Not to mention either the difficulty is either tedious because you die a lot or tedious because you just mash the attack button until everything dies.
I got really sick of walking to a place and hitting everything with the sword until and then talking to someone and then hitting more things with the sword.
I mean, skyrim at least has interesting level design, varied enemies, varied weapons, full movement. It certainly doesn't lack for amusing ways to kill your enemies which is what I look for in an action RPG.
It's not quite as good as dark messiah on the melee combat level but that's not too surprising, it has more random cool crap in it though.
Oh Maurice...
How can that possibly be a bad thing.
The hits felt like they were actually connecting, it was satisfying to hit someone, and you could tell when you actually did some damage
Whereas with Skyrim, and most other games involving melee combat, you wail on things hoping that you're hitting them, and usually the only way to tell that you actually hit them is by watching their HP. Each hit is near-meaningless and unsatisfying, just a means to kill the enemy.
Oh Maurice...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
uhhh it was awesome
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Od-b82jxj4E"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Od-b82jxj4E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
^^
The man does not lie. And you can pick that game up for like $1 these days.
It's not even the crashes. Sure the game has crashed about a dozen times for me, but Steam says that I have played it for 185 hours by now. That is a LOT of time. That is one crash every fifteen hours or so. That isn't good. That's a lot more crashes than there should be. But it's not terrible either. And thanks to autosaving I have never lost more than five or ten minutes to a crash. So I can deal with that. I'm not happy, but I can deal, although I am worried that the crashes seem to have increased in frequency since release.
But it's all the small bugs and glitches. Broken quest scripting. An NPC that's critical to a quest (and an important quest too, not just a little side quest), but who refuses to talk to you simply because you completed a different quest first - end result, your can't complete that quest now. Another NPC who WILL talk to you but doesn't have the dialogue option you need - so now you can't complete THAT quest, and Skyrim remains forever divided. A bug that causes the "frost damage" sound to endlessly loop on your character every time you load the game. The set bonus for wearing a full set of ebony armour, missing. The list goes on.
Bethesda has a track record for this. And they said they had learned from their mistakes and were being proactive this time around. But that was a bald-faced lie. Out of all the bugs above, which ones have been fixed? The ebony armour one.
That's the real failing of the game. They shouldn't have released this game at all, they should've pulled a Rocksteady. They should've put a content freeze on it and spent a year doing nothing but QA. A year of nothing but testing and polish and bug fixes. But why do that when you can save the money and just sell it anyway.
Did I enjoy the game? Yes. Undeniably yes. But I am warier of Bethesda than ever before. The concept of QA is utterly alien to them, and it's time I acknowledged that and stopped rewarding them for skimping on it.
It seems far more sensible to fix as many as you can with ease, then release it, then use the consumers to catch the rest and fix them, or wait for modders to do it. All TES games usually get unofficial patches to fix bugs like that.
I don't really care whether bethesda releases bugless games as long as I get a fun game out of it, if I want all the bugfixes I can go get mods to fix them. It's hardly an onerous task. Considering I can get 100+ hours out of a TES game and the money I spent on it, a few hours spent fixing the odd bug and downloading/setting up mods doesn't seem unreasonable.
I'd much rather do that than wait a year for the game and have that be a year bethesda can't spend working on actual useful things like DLCs or expansions or new games.
Modders? The construction set isn't even out yet. And is it our task to fix bugs now? If I'm their QA employee now, do I get a paycheck? Why am I even paying for this if I am not entitled to expect anything for it?
Wow, it's almost like Skyrim is exactly like Oblivion, and it took you morons five years to realize I was right. Heck, the only reason Fallout 3 remotely worked was because it was gun-centric which meant a lot of the stupid flaws with their combat system could be ignored.
Have you tried it? Many people aren't experiencing any bugs and those that are can usually play through.
Modders? The construction set isn't even out yet. And is it our task to fix bugs now? If I'm their QA employee now, do I get a paycheck? Why am I even paying for this if I am not entitled to expect anything for it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've started like four times already, and haven't gone any further in the main quest than getting fus ro dah.
If a quest doesn't work, so what? There's other quests.
The whole point of the game is there's a crapload of stuff to do, and 90% of it works fine, so go do it.
Honestly you're acting like this is some sort of linear game that if there is one bug the entire game is unplayable. The running around works, there's dungeons to explore, stuff to buy, stuff to kill, sidequests to do, dragons to murder and dissect, shouts to find, spells to cast, cities to investigate, loot to acquire, and generally a massive game to play.
I am literally tripping over quest hooks everywhere I go, you cannot seriously tell me that the game is not playable and that every single time you try to do anything it doesn't work.
Complaining that a quest doesn't work is like complaining that one match in the box doesn't have a head therefore you can't use the matches to light fires.
Let's say you want to do the war in skyrim quests, but Legate Rikke refuses to talk to you. Since she is critical to the entire quest line, you are locked out of that and you can't liberate/conquer Skyrim.
Yes, both of those have happened to me. In the same game. Those aren't small side quests, those are the big showy setpieces of the game. No, I am not the only one, quick searches have turned up others with the same problems, but no solutions except "here's a possible workaround that you can use if you know about it ahead of time so try starting a new character."
How much is too much, Chris? Does the game have to start erasing random files from my harddrive before you'll concede that it may have flaws?