Stunning work as usual! Can't wait to play it tomorrow.
I encountered a couple of issues when I ran around the map. The first was that a cyst and the starting harvester died as if they weren't connected. Could it be because the round hadn't started? The second one is that the vent between Bridge, Neck and Hub isn't marked on the mini map.
<!--quoteo(post=1889991:date=Dec 12 2011, 10:54 PM:name=BJHBnade_spammer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BJHBnade_spammer @ Dec 12 2011, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->can someone put it on drop box cannot access co.uk sites from work.
also cannot wait to see all of the changes to the map looks good from the pics but sure it is a whole different experience in map<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
I have just been pointed out by whoppaXXL that the proper skybox is missing. So i will update the files later on and I can change the minimap file too without affecting the map file.
I have also noticed that dying cyst, i think it i because NS2 automatically places a cyst or two between the first hive and the rt, but in turtle they are close to each other and don't need that cyst so i guess it just dies.
Lovely map, just flew around and killed all powernodes :P The cyst/harvester only seem to die before the round has started. I admire the look of your minimap. Why make it the usual boring look :P
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
Just thought I would say congratulations to evilbob, as our database now shows over 50 downloads of ns2_turtle (83 to be precise, and in just a few days too). I hope all those that downloaded get to play in the 'lets turtle' event today, or very soon. I am sure they will enjoy it!
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
I posted my previous congratulations too soon, ns2_turtle has now had over 100 downloads from our database (104 so far). Which I think is pretty remarkable in the current community.
Congratulations evilbob and keep up the good work!
This map has the best use of doors I've seen so far in NS2! Up until the "lets turtle"-event I didn't really see the point of them. It feels like on tram and summit, doors are placed in the positions where they make the least difference... The door sealing of loading on this map made a huge difference though! Awesome!
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
There were some issues with the b2 zip package, some files were of not the correct version. My bad :p So I have repackaged the files.
This package is compatible with previous version, only thing that changes is the minimap and skybox, so if you have already downloaded it you do not need to redownload it if you don't want to. If you want to take advantage of the new minimap and skybox just overwrite files.
Specifically changes involve a cleaner minimap which shows vents. And most importantly the skybox by whoppaXXL.
If this is your first download of b2 then this is all you need.
The skybox looks nice, love the moon and the asteroids. Something I've been thinking about from the playtest though. If marines are sieging a hive in loading, and the commander locks the loading - engine door behind them, the aliens only have two real choices of attack. One down on the open floor in plain sight when attacking the hive, the other on your right along the corridor from tech, that you can also view at the same time as you attack the hive.
There are two other possible ways to attack from; the vent below the ledge and the stairway to the left. To reach the stairway you have to run across the floor, flat floor or come from the vent. The later still running a short way in sight from the ledge. Running up the wall from the vent to the ledge place you right where the marines aim already. Even if you come to the stairway, the marines can by careful placement see along the corridor, stand have the edge in rail in plain sight at a fair distance, be able to shoot the hive and be able to glimpse anyone coming up the stairway. That's a single marine covering all angles of attack.
I feel it is a bit to harsh for the aliens to attack this position; is it intended to be like this? I think that adding a path that went up to the back wall or ceiling from the vent would make for a good extra option of attack.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1890571:date=Dec 16 2011, 05:44 PM:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar @ Dec 16 2011, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890571"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do servers need to run updated skybox/minimap or is it all client side?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All client side, I should of used those words. Thats what I meant by 'compatible'
@fluid core. That's some very good analysis that can only really be from extensive playtest. I don't think I want the map to be that harsh, but that area is meant to be a shooting range into loading. I love the idea of a connection of the vent to the back wall so aliens can get behind the shooting range. It does seam only fair :D
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
I have no idea. The rts were placed in a location logic not cyst logic. It does seam easier for marines to get rts than aliens cureently. This is all very hard to balance with changes to gamplay. Not too long ago hives were much cheaper, and it made sens to have alien rts a bit more disparate. But with current system maybe there could be a few changes to the rts that would make sens.
Oh, I don't think that's needed right now, with some planning you can get them quite fast ;) Cyst placements are one of the main things you can spice up right now anyhow!
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
I have a suggestion for you evilbob, as I'm a bit concerned about how easy it is to hold Loading hive. And how easy it is for marines to get from Loading to Cargo after they killed the hive. I think you should block off the big gate from Loading to Cargo. So both teams would have to use the catwalk to get back and forth, it seems a bit too easy on both ends atm. :) Also, as others have said, I would like to see Loading powernode inside Loading :P
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
That's an interesting suggestion. To make it work right in a way I like I would have to modify the area to accommodate that change, as in for example, make the access from cargo to tech feel more primary way. That area has some nice potential but it is surely in my opinion the weakest part of the map for sure. I haven't been working on the map since i released the last version took a little break and didn't really feel I had something specific to do yet. But this idea, with fluid core's idea too... hmmmmm, that a challenge I like and I see where it wants to go. Time to get back to the drawing board and surprise you guys. :D
If you guys could be even more specific about what you like/dislike about loading, cargo, tech and engine it would help even more (I put them in order of how I feel the intervention is going to happen from most to less). I might end up moving around a bunch so tell me what you like so I don't remove that in the process. Also it would help so i move in a direction were the good is made better and the bad diminished. I definitely want to make engine a more viable hive but a hive that involves some risk, not the hive you would take for every game but one that can be worked for a special move if marines aren't pushing too much on that side. That would surely come as a consequence from what would change around loading and involve only minor changes though. The heart of the intervention is going to revolve around loading and how it connects to the other parts.
<!--quoteo(post=1892469:date=Jan 2 2012, 09:09 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Jan 2 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's an interesting suggestion. To make it work right in a way I like I would have to modify the area to accommodate that change, as in for example, make the access from cargo to tech feel more primary way. That area has some nice potential but it is surely in my opinion the weakest part of the map for sure. I haven't been working on the map since i released the last version took a little break and didn't really feel I had something specific to do yet. But this idea, with fluid core's idea too... hmmmmm, that a challenge I like and I see where it wants to go. Time to get back to the drawing board and surprise you guys. :D
If you guys could be even more specific about what you like/dislike about loading, cargo, tech and engine it would help even more (I put them in order of how I feel the intervention is going to happen from most to less). I might end up moving around a bunch so tell me what you like so I don't remove that in the process. Also it would help so i move in a direction were the good is made better and the bad diminished. I definitely want to make engine a more viable hive but a hive that involves some risk, not the hive you would take for every game but one that can be worked for a special move if marines aren't pushing too much on that side. That would surely come as a consequence from what would change around loading and involve only minor changes though. The heart of the intervention is going to revolve around loading and how it connects to the other parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's good to see me bugging you has sparked your interest in your creation again ;)
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1892469:date=Jan 3 2012, 03:09 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Jan 3 2012, 03:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's an interesting suggestion. To make it work right in a way I like I would have to modify the area to accommodate that change, as in for example, make the access from cargo to tech feel more primary way. That area has some nice potential but it is surely in my opinion the weakest part of the map for sure. I haven't been working on the map since i released the last version took a little break and didn't really feel I had something specific to do yet. But this idea, with fluid core's idea too... hmmmmm, that a challenge I like and I see where it wants to go. Time to get back to the drawing board and surprise you guys. :D
If you guys could be even more specific about what you like/dislike about loading, cargo, tech and engine it would help even more (I put them in order of how I feel the intervention is going to happen from most to less). I might end up moving around a bunch so tell me what you like so I don't remove that in the process. Also it would help so i move in a direction were the good is made better and the bad diminished. I definitely want to make engine a more viable hive but a hive that involves some risk, not the hive you would take for every game but one that can be worked for a special move if marines aren't pushing too much on that side. That would surely come as a consequence from what would change around loading and involve only minor changes though. The heart of the intervention is going to revolve around loading and how it connects to the other parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That sounds awesome, do your thing :D I love the vent in Loading, you must not remove it!
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
edited January 2012
After playing turtle almost every night in gathers I decided to throw in my 20 cents to the hope of making the map even better.
First of all the map is very good i especially love service, bilge, radiator, gate and hall. I also love the short, open and numerous vents in the map. Please don't make any major changes to these good features.
However there are couple of things that i think could be improved.
First of all the 3 power grid areas in Engine are confusing. They're simple once you know them but it's getting annoying to teach them to new players every time you play. This works in gathers but would cause chaos in pub games. Please put 1 power node in each room that powers that room and not the adjacent rooms. It might be kinda boring but it's intuitive and it works.
Backup is little bit useless room and only function is see for it relocation for marines. But as a relocation place it is very boring because it's not much closer to possible alien hives and is ridiculously easy to defend. It also annoys be that there's no way to get a drifter to build a hive in backup because of the doors. I would suggest removing one of the doors, moving the whole room towards engine, removing the TP and moving the engine RT into it. The end result could make the whole reactor view, backup area more interesting.
I love bilge and service with the staircases that offer nice 3D combat environments. However the combat tends to turn into a collision fest in them because the rooms are little bit too small. I would love to try out a version with little bit bigger hallways and catwalks in service and bigger staircase etc. in Bilge.
I have the same problem with Tech. It's an interesting place and would offer very nice gameplay and phase gate position for marines but it's just too small. Aliens have 3 ways to attack into the room and marines can't get a clear field of fire especially after building phase gate, rt and maybe armory. Would be cool to see tech as it is but little bit bigger.
It is also getting little bit repetitive that aliens are always building hive to loading and marines put up a phase gate to engine to get it down. But you can't blame the players because that's pretty much the only thing you can do in this map. In the beginning it was absolutely awesome way of playing but now it's getting old. It would be great if aliens had two equally good tech points to choose from. It wouldn't change the balance of the game much but would make the map much more interesting and have more replay value. It's hard to find any good way to get this to work though. Just a quick idea i had is to move bridge little bit towards north and maybe make cargo little bit smaller. You could also remove another one of the small rooms in service if needed. And maybe add one small room with nice catwalks in the south side of service to create a chokepoint for marines trying to enter the bridge. This way bridge would be easier for aliens to defend thus increasing its value.
Edit: Oh! And the vent between bridge and hub is pretty hard to get into from Bridge. Maybe you could clip of the geometry under the vent entrance to make it easier?
Please keep on focusing the gameplay before putting too much detail on the map.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1893620:date=Jan 11 2012, 10:23 PM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Jan 11 2012, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893620"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->text<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good post, good points.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
First off thanks for those points Zeikko!
I would love to address all those points as I feel them also. Some of them involve a lot more hassle for me than I would wish though. Turtle is my first full fleshed out map and comes with that many mistakes and things that didn't turn out as well as I had imagined. I feel as if i tried to do too many stuff in turtle and it has been the occasion for me to really understand NS2 gameplay. I am still working on the map and have a few ideas. A new version though will take a great amount of time for me to deal with these issues without me having to open up and dissect the whole thing which I don't want to do. Most of turtle works pretty well as it is, and the points you make are really what makes the difference between a map done by someone with experience rather than by an amateur like myself. I am extremely happy with turtle though, as it provides a very unique setting for a multiplayer team fps/rts game. And I will use that experience to create other maps.
So... I will see what I can do. But I don't want to spend too much time trying to fix things and rather move on to new things. This next version is going to take a lot of time and I'm going to deal with it slowly and you can be assured we will test it on gathers as I build it up. Turtle is pretty much what it must be, with its goods and flaws.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
I agree with Zeikko's post, for the most part at least, and have also enjoyed playing the map. If you want it to be played in the long run you are going to have to make some changes to it, especially with regards to the excessive amount of doors. I would even suggest that you remove all of them. They don't add anything valuable to the gameplay (the door locking mechanic is another dead end in terms of new features in NS2). Even worse; locked doors seem to bug with alarming frequency (can't be opened by marines, comm has to unlock them first) which is incredibly frustrating, especially when there are so many of them.
To pull out an NS1 example: During the early versions of the game, ns_eclipse slowly cemented its position as the most popular map. At some point however (I think it was around version 2.0 or very early 3.0 betas), doors were added to marine start. These doors weren't even the kind of doors that you could lock, but even then they become such an annoyance for both teams that the map eventually lost its favoured status, and maps such as ns_veil, ns_tanith and ns_origin became more popular. Even after the doors were removed, ns_eclipse never regained anything resembling its popularity before the doors were added.
I also remember that the first time we played it everybody was lost, and the general impression was that the map was very complicated. Now I really like it, but it might a bit hard for new players to adopt it. I don't really know what to do to make it more accessible though (removing doors that create a lot of dead-end for aliens?).
Also if you're feed up with working on the map - I would be, so much work - you could think of releasing an "open" version of it, just post it with a creative common license or such. People might come up with nice modifications.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
lol. I am not fed up with it. I like it for the way it is. I see as much as you guys its flaws, and it is the occasion to learn something about gameplay and re-playability. I want to add some stuff, I have a few ideas but I don't want to change it too much. I like going for the simple solution and there is surely something to be done I haven't quite figured it out yet.
To properly tackle the issue I have to first identify what the real problem is.
In the mean time I have put together an alternate version with suggestions from FluidCore which might provide a very very different game. It wasn't planned as so but I think this one is much more tactical and open. Maybe a bit easier for aliens but much more different choices for hives. Surely much more different tactics as there isn't the engine/loading door situation.
-Aliens start in Engine and Marines in bridge. -Extra RT in starts -No doors -Reworked power-points so they follow a logic closer to UWE's maps. (Loading PP is in loading, reactor view is now in engine and uses its power. Gate and Gen have their own PP. Hall is in Hub and uses the Hub PP).
And the link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtlealt.zip" target="_blank">turtle alternate</a> or maybe it should be called turtle ultimate :p
For some more great videos, please check out Zeikko's videos. Zeikko is my favorite commander and I love building the base for him in the matches we've played :p So check his videos to see some great strategy, and maybe learn some commanding tips or two, ideas about map control and more be it on turtle or not.
Turtle is a pretty complex map and can be disorienting for new players, it is focused to reward good team-play and innovating commanders, so maybe watch a bunch of these videos if you have not played it before to get a feel for how games play on it.
Concerning the state of the map. I am currently very busy but truly wish to bring some changes to make the map even better. This is what I meant earlier when I said new version is going to take some time to come, not much because of the changes to be done but more because my time is taken up by different activities.
Thanks again to all the people who have involved themselves in this map to make it what it is today, I hope to bring you the true version you are hoping for (several equal choices for hive, and better phase gate spots) soon enough!
Comments
I encountered a couple of issues when I ran around the map. The first was that a cyst and the starting harvester died as if they weren't connected. Could it be because the round hadn't started? The second one is that the vent between Bridge, Neck and Hub isn't marked on the mini map.
also cannot wait to see all of the changes to the map looks good from the pics but sure it is a whole different experience in map
also cannot wait to see all of the changes to the map looks good from the pics but sure it is a whole different experience in map<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13027668/ns2_turtle_b2.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13027668/ns2_turtle_b2.zip</a>
I have also noticed that dying cyst, i think it i because NS2 automatically places a cyst or two between the first hive and the rt, but in turtle they are close to each other and don't need that cyst so i guess it just dies.
In my opinion it distracts from the names and makes it harder to see them.
Congratulations evilbob and keep up the good work!
This package is compatible with previous version, only thing that changes is the minimap and skybox, so if you have already downloaded it you do not need to redownload it if you don't want to. If you want to take advantage of the new minimap and skybox just overwrite files.
Specifically changes involve a cleaner minimap which shows vents. And most importantly the skybox by whoppaXXL.
If this is your first download of b2 then this is all you need.
<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/download.php?f=ns2_turtle_b2b.zip" target="_blank">ns2_turtle_b2b</a>
There are two other possible ways to attack from; the vent below the ledge and the stairway to the left. To reach the stairway you have to run across the floor, flat floor or come from the vent. The later still running a short way in sight from the ledge. Running up the wall from the vent to the ledge place you right where the marines aim already. Even if you come to the stairway, the marines can by careful placement see along the corridor, stand have the edge in rail in plain sight at a fair distance, be able to shoot the hive and be able to glimpse anyone coming up the stairway. That's a single marine covering all angles of attack.
I feel it is a bit to harsh for the aliens to attack this position; is it intended to be like this? I think that adding a path that went up to the back wall or ceiling from the vent would make for a good extra option of attack.
All client side, I should of used those words. Thats what I meant by 'compatible'
@fluid core. That's some very good analysis that can only really be from extensive playtest. I don't think I want the map to be that harsh, but that area is meant to be a shooting range into loading. I love the idea of a connection of the vent to the back wall so aliens can get behind the shooting range. It does seam only fair :D
Out of curiosity, how many cysts do you expect to place to get say, 2,3,4 res nodes?
And how easy it is for marines to get from Loading to Cargo after they killed the hive.
I think you should block off the big gate from Loading to Cargo.
So both teams would have to use the catwalk to get back and forth, it seems a bit too easy on both ends atm. :)
Also, as others have said, I would like to see Loading powernode inside Loading :P
If you guys could be even more specific about what you like/dislike about loading, cargo, tech and engine it would help even more (I put them in order of how I feel the intervention is going to happen from most to less). I might end up moving around a bunch so tell me what you like so I don't remove that in the process. Also it would help so i move in a direction were the good is made better and the bad diminished. I definitely want to make engine a more viable hive but a hive that involves some risk, not the hive you would take for every game but one that can be worked for a special move if marines aren't pushing too much on that side. That would surely come as a consequence from what would change around loading and involve only minor changes though. The heart of the intervention is going to revolve around loading and how it connects to the other parts.
If you guys could be even more specific about what you like/dislike about loading, cargo, tech and engine it would help even more (I put them in order of how I feel the intervention is going to happen from most to less). I might end up moving around a bunch so tell me what you like so I don't remove that in the process. Also it would help so i move in a direction were the good is made better and the bad diminished. I definitely want to make engine a more viable hive but a hive that involves some risk, not the hive you would take for every game but one that can be worked for a special move if marines aren't pushing too much on that side. That would surely come as a consequence from what would change around loading and involve only minor changes though. The heart of the intervention is going to revolve around loading and how it connects to the other parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's good to see me bugging you has sparked your interest in your creation again ;)
If you guys could be even more specific about what you like/dislike about loading, cargo, tech and engine it would help even more (I put them in order of how I feel the intervention is going to happen from most to less). I might end up moving around a bunch so tell me what you like so I don't remove that in the process. Also it would help so i move in a direction were the good is made better and the bad diminished. I definitely want to make engine a more viable hive but a hive that involves some risk, not the hive you would take for every game but one that can be worked for a special move if marines aren't pushing too much on that side. That would surely come as a consequence from what would change around loading and involve only minor changes though. The heart of the intervention is going to revolve around loading and how it connects to the other parts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds awesome, do your thing :D
I love the vent in Loading, you must not remove it!
First of all the map is very good i especially love service, bilge, radiator, gate and hall. I also love the short, open and numerous vents in the map. Please don't make any major changes to these good features.
However there are couple of things that i think could be improved.
First of all the 3 power grid areas in Engine are confusing. They're simple once you know them but it's getting annoying to teach them to new players every time you play. This works in gathers but would cause chaos in pub games. Please put 1 power node in each room that powers that room and not the adjacent rooms. It might be kinda boring but it's intuitive and it works.
Backup is little bit useless room and only function is see for it relocation for marines. But as a relocation place it is very boring because it's not much closer to possible alien hives and is ridiculously easy to defend. It also annoys be that there's no way to get a drifter to build a hive in backup because of the doors. I would suggest removing one of the doors, moving the whole room towards engine, removing the TP and moving the engine RT into it. The end result could make the whole reactor view, backup area more interesting.
I love bilge and service with the staircases that offer nice 3D combat environments. However the combat tends to turn into a collision fest in them because the rooms are little bit too small. I would love to try out a version with little bit bigger hallways and catwalks in service and bigger staircase etc. in Bilge.
I have the same problem with Tech. It's an interesting place and would offer very nice gameplay and phase gate position for marines but it's just too small. Aliens have 3 ways to attack into the room and marines can't get a clear field of fire especially after building phase gate, rt and maybe armory. Would be cool to see tech as it is but little bit bigger.
It is also getting little bit repetitive that aliens are always building hive to loading and marines put up a phase gate to engine to get it down. But you can't blame the players because that's pretty much the only thing you can do in this map. In the beginning it was absolutely awesome way of playing but now it's getting old. It would be great if aliens had two equally good tech points to choose from. It wouldn't change the balance of the game much but would make the map much more interesting and have more replay value. It's hard to find any good way to get this to work though. Just a quick idea i had is to move bridge little bit towards north and maybe make cargo little bit smaller. You could also remove another one of the small rooms in service if needed. And maybe add one small room with nice catwalks in the south side of service to create a chokepoint for marines trying to enter the bridge. This way bridge would be easier for aliens to defend thus increasing its value.
Edit: Oh! And the vent between bridge and hub is pretty hard to get into from Bridge. Maybe you could clip of the geometry under the vent entrance to make it easier?
Please keep on focusing the gameplay before putting too much detail on the map.
Keep up the good work evilbob!
Good post, good points.
I would love to address all those points as I feel them also. Some of them involve a lot more hassle for me than I would wish though. Turtle is my first full fleshed out map and comes with that many mistakes and things that didn't turn out as well as I had imagined. I feel as if i tried to do too many stuff in turtle and it has been the occasion for me to really understand NS2 gameplay. I am still working on the map and have a few ideas. A new version though will take a great amount of time for me to deal with these issues without me having to open up and dissect the whole thing which I don't want to do. Most of turtle works pretty well as it is, and the points you make are really what makes the difference between a map done by someone with experience rather than by an amateur like myself. I am extremely happy with turtle though, as it provides a very unique setting for a multiplayer team fps/rts game. And I will use that experience to create other maps.
So... I will see what I can do. But I don't want to spend too much time trying to fix things and rather move on to new things. This next version is going to take a lot of time and I'm going to deal with it slowly and you can be assured we will test it on gathers as I build it up. Turtle is pretty much what it must be, with its goods and flaws.
To pull out an NS1 example: During the early versions of the game, ns_eclipse slowly cemented its position as the most popular map. At some point however (I think it was around version 2.0 or very early 3.0 betas), doors were added to marine start. These doors weren't even the kind of doors that you could lock, but even then they become such an annoyance for both teams that the map eventually lost its favoured status, and maps such as ns_veil, ns_tanith and ns_origin became more popular. Even after the doors were removed, ns_eclipse never regained anything resembling its popularity before the doors were added.
Also if you're feed up with working on the map - I would be, so much work - you could think of releasing an "open" version of it, just post it with a creative common license or such. People might come up with nice modifications.
To properly tackle the issue I have to first identify what the real problem is.
In the mean time I have put together an alternate version with suggestions from FluidCore which might provide a very very different game. It wasn't planned as so but I think this one is much more tactical and open. Maybe a bit easier for aliens but much more different choices for hives. Surely much more different tactics as there isn't the engine/loading door situation.
-Aliens start in Engine and Marines in bridge.
-Extra RT in starts
-No doors
-Reworked power-points so they follow a logic closer to UWE's maps. (Loading PP is in loading, reactor view is now in engine and uses its power. Gate and Gen have their own PP. Hall is in Hub and uses the Hub PP).
And the link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtlealt.zip" target="_blank">turtle alternate</a> or maybe it should be called turtle ultimate :p
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For some more great videos, please check out Zeikko's videos. Zeikko is my favorite commander and I love building the base for him in the matches we've played :p So check his videos to see some great strategy, and maybe learn some commanding tips or two, ideas about map control and more be it on turtle or not.
Turtle is a pretty complex map and can be disorienting for new players, it is focused to reward good team-play and innovating commanders, so maybe watch a bunch of these videos if you have not played it before to get a feel for how games play on it.
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Concerning the state of the map. I am currently very busy but truly wish to bring some changes to make the map even better. This is what I meant earlier when I said new version is going to take some time to come, not much because of the changes to be done but more because my time is taken up by different activities.
Thanks again to all the people who have involved themselves in this map to make it what it is today, I hope to bring you the true version you are hoping for (several equal choices for hive, and better phase gate spots) soon enough!