As dux pointed out only ns_origin had 2 doors operated with a push-button, the old ns_bast had a push-button elevator and a push-button revolving door (of doom).
Veil was most certainly one of the best, arguably THE best NS1 map out there, I am very glad to see a remake and hope that all of the great NS1 maps are remade. (Such as eclipse, origin)
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1899835:date=Feb 5 2012, 10:49 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Feb 5 2012, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1899835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Veil was most certainly one of the best, arguably THE best NS1 map out there, I am very glad to see a remake and hope that all of the great NS1 maps are remade. (Such as eclipse, origin)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I only hope they work for NS2 gameplay :)
There have been a lot of changes so it will be interesting to see how they play out :)
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1900419:date=Feb 6 2012, 07:08 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 6 2012, 07:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900419"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So there is a chance it may be tucked away to be released with Version 1.0 of NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1900608:date=Feb 7 2012, 06:37 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Feb 7 2012, 06:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't know when _your_ map will be released? What's that all about...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm waiting until its done to make any decisions about anything.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Hahahha player, a project that takes so much attention is like that, there are always so much you want to do and then things you forget about and then bugs and whatnot. You can always do more. Its like an artist doing a painting, at one moment you realize you have accomplished your intention and anymore work would just go against it, but that moment you do not know when it will appear.
For myself I know people might of expected more details and styling in turtle, but there was a moment when I realized the project was pretty much what I intended it to be: an interesting gameplay experience that offers a lot of replayability and details where irrelevant to that, so I stopped detailing and went to the essence of the spaces. To be honest, even if it might of been confusing on first versions, I tried to get the simplest form of my idea. My other main goal was performance and I often removed details I had previously done to ensure good performance especially in the larger spaces and spawns knowing there will be many more models in those areas when a game starts. The expression of details in turtle has more to do with a limit of the engine's current capacities for most users, than an eye candy feast. So there is that factor too. You will notice some games look for 'realism', but in doing so they will tend to be very conservative on their methods, while other games, who try to push the known existence of game play have to sacrifice on visuals or use more stylized visual to accomplish this goal.
Such as blizzard games, if you look at each part of their game you will notice they are done very simply but they have soooo many things in their games that the overall impression is of detail. For this they have to sacrifice the details on the parts.
That is something i think NS2 could work on. To provide smoother gameplay, they should reduce the impact of each model, go more to the essence of things. I know they have stated that their engine is capable of a lot visual eye candy, until the game runs too... So one has to take all these things into account, which makes a good map a difficult set of problems that needs to be merged into a solution. Because ultimately, a good map is good because of undefinable things which create the experience. Gameplay you would tell me but how exactly do you define good gameplay? How is it that you create a map that will offer great replayability? Random spawns might help but still they create a fixed number of possibilities. How do you create possibilities that tend towards the infinity? All that are some of the many things that need to be considered about a map, it is much more than a set of vertices, lines, faces, textures, models and so on...
[=Alex=]Join Date: 2008-12-25Member: 65866Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1900724:date=Feb 7 2012, 05:37 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Feb 7 2012, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hahahha player, a project that takes so much attention is like that, there are always so much you want to do and then things you forget about and then bugs and whatnot. You can always do more. Its like an artist doing a painting, at one moment you realize you have accomplished your intention and anymore work would just go against it, but that moment you do not know when it will appear.
For myself I know people might of expected more details and styling in turtle, but there was a moment when I realized the project was pretty much what I intended it to be: an interesting gameplay experience that offers a lot of replayability and details where irrelevant to that, so I stopped detailing and went to the essence of the spaces. To be honest, even if it might of been confusing on first versions, I tried to get the simplest form of my idea. My other main goal was performance and I often removed details I had previously done to ensure good performance especially in the larger spaces and spawns knowing there will be many more models in those areas when a game starts. The expression of details in turtle has more to do with a limit of the engine's current capacities for most users, than an eye candy feast. So there is that factor too. You will notice some games look for 'realism', but in doing so they will tend to be very conservative on their methods, while other games, who try to push the known existence of game play have to sacrifice on visuals or use more stylized visual to accomplish this goal.
Such as blizzard games, if you look at each part of their game you will notice they are done very simply but they have soooo many things in their games that the overall impression is of detail. For this they have to sacrifice the details on the parts.
That is something i think NS2 could work on. To provide smoother gameplay, they should reduce the impact of each model, go more to the essence of things. I know they have stated that their engine is capable of a lot visual eye candy, until the game runs too... So one has to take all these things into account, which makes a good map a difficult set of problems that needs to be merged into a solution. Because ultimately, a good map is good because of undefinable things which create the experience. Gameplay you would tell me but how exactly do you define good gameplay? How is it that you create a map that will offer great replayability? Random spawns might help but still they create a fixed number of possibilities. How do you create possibilities that tend towards the infinity? All that are some of the many things that need to be considered about a map, it is much more than a set of vertices, lines, faces, textures, models and so on...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I 100% agree with what you posted in my first vercion of "ns2_triad" I take care of details and neglect the game itself, I had to do the whole map. People would seem not to understand that it is not as "simple" do something balanced and beautiful.
I've been reading through this thread and I thought I would give some input to the creator. I see there are others who are frankly offended by the fact that you're taking this in your own direction. A map maker has every right to do things his way, even if it flies in the face of the people critiquing it. Map making = art. Study art history, and you'll find its often the 'crazed' artist who were perceived as derailed, that we remember most.
So do whatever you want with this map, trust yourself. Everybody here has the right to do their own veil remake if they so please. Just remember that 'balance' isn't a single equation, and you can change whatever you want and still be able to reach an equilibrium. For lighting, why even compare to the original? It was the half-life engine, we're now using an engine that offers so many new options, why try and replicate the old with it?!
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1907099:date=Feb 26 2012, 03:43 AM:name=nUfl0w)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nUfl0w @ Feb 26 2012, 03:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->where can I haz signup for teh playtestz , plx? :-/
also: can you already make any statement about the performance of the map? is it better than summit, between summit and tram/mineshaft or worse?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know yet cause the map isn't being tested at this time
Saving whats gonna be the best part of the map for last eh?
I honestly can't wait, the anticipation keeps me looking back at this page every day looking for updates.
Excellent work so far on the map, i think its better we just not see screens for now, so we will get the full surprise when we all get to play the map for the first time.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1907300:date=Feb 26 2012, 07:44 PM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Feb 26 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1907300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Saving whats gonna be the best part of the map for last eh?
I honestly can't wait, the anticipation keeps me looking back at this page every day looking for updates.
Excellent work so far on the map, i think its better we just not see screens for now, so we will get the full surprise when we all get to play the map for the first time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Targeting March 1st for completion
I only hope they work for NS2 gameplay :)
There have been a lot of changes so it will be interesting to see how they play out :)
I have no clue. Let's wait and see.
I'm waiting until its done to make any decisions about anything.
For myself I know people might of expected more details and styling in turtle, but there was a moment when I realized the project was pretty much what I intended it to be: an interesting gameplay experience that offers a lot of replayability and details where irrelevant to that, so I stopped detailing and went to the essence of the spaces. To be honest, even if it might of been confusing on first versions, I tried to get the simplest form of my idea. My other main goal was performance and I often removed details I had previously done to ensure good performance especially in the larger spaces and spawns knowing there will be many more models in those areas when a game starts. The expression of details in turtle has more to do with a limit of the engine's current capacities for most users, than an eye candy feast. So there is that factor too. You will notice some games look for 'realism', but in doing so they will tend to be very conservative on their methods, while other games, who try to push the known existence of game play have to sacrifice on visuals or use more stylized visual to accomplish this goal.
Such as blizzard games, if you look at each part of their game you will notice they are done very simply but they have soooo many things in their games that the overall impression is of detail. For this they have to sacrifice the details on the parts.
That is something i think NS2 could work on. To provide smoother gameplay, they should reduce the impact of each model, go more to the essence of things. I know they have stated that their engine is capable of a lot visual eye candy, until the game runs too... So one has to take all these things into account, which makes a good map a difficult set of problems that needs to be merged into a solution. Because ultimately, a good map is good because of undefinable things which create the experience. Gameplay you would tell me but how exactly do you define good gameplay? How is it that you create a map that will offer great replayability? Random spawns might help but still they create a fixed number of possibilities. How do you create possibilities that tend towards the infinity? All that are some of the many things that need to be considered about a map, it is much more than a set of vertices, lines, faces, textures, models and so on...
For myself I know people might of expected more details and styling in turtle, but there was a moment when I realized the project was pretty much what I intended it to be: an interesting gameplay experience that offers a lot of replayability and details where irrelevant to that, so I stopped detailing and went to the essence of the spaces. To be honest, even if it might of been confusing on first versions, I tried to get the simplest form of my idea. My other main goal was performance and I often removed details I had previously done to ensure good performance especially in the larger spaces and spawns knowing there will be many more models in those areas when a game starts. The expression of details in turtle has more to do with a limit of the engine's current capacities for most users, than an eye candy feast. So there is that factor too. You will notice some games look for 'realism', but in doing so they will tend to be very conservative on their methods, while other games, who try to push the known existence of game play have to sacrifice on visuals or use more stylized visual to accomplish this goal.
Such as blizzard games, if you look at each part of their game you will notice they are done very simply but they have soooo many things in their games that the overall impression is of detail. For this they have to sacrifice the details on the parts.
That is something i think NS2 could work on. To provide smoother gameplay, they should reduce the impact of each model, go more to the essence of things. I know they have stated that their engine is capable of a lot visual eye candy, until the game runs too... So one has to take all these things into account, which makes a good map a difficult set of problems that needs to be merged into a solution. Because ultimately, a good map is good because of undefinable things which create the experience. Gameplay you would tell me but how exactly do you define good gameplay? How is it that you create a map that will offer great replayability? Random spawns might help but still they create a fixed number of possibilities. How do you create possibilities that tend towards the infinity? All that are some of the many things that need to be considered about a map, it is much more than a set of vertices, lines, faces, textures, models and so on...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I 100% agree with what you posted in my first vercion of "ns2_triad" I take care of details and neglect the game itself, I had to do the whole map. People would seem not to understand that it is not as "simple" do something balanced and beautiful.
So do whatever you want with this map, trust yourself. Everybody here has the right to do their own veil remake if they so please. Just remember that 'balance' isn't a single equation, and you can change whatever you want and still be able to reach an equilibrium. For lighting, why even compare to the original? It was the half-life engine, we're now using an engine that offers so many new options, why try and replicate the old with it?!
Look forward to play testing : )
The detail and design just looks amazing, and i love the changes that you have made. keep it up.
and the rest of the map has received a HUGE face-lift. internal testing begins in march
Hope all goes well and we get to see this soon enough :)
also: can you already make any statement about the performance of the map? is it better than summit, between summit and tram/mineshaft or worse?
also: can you already make any statement about the performance of the map? is it better than summit, between summit and tram/mineshaft or worse?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know yet cause the map isn't being tested at this time
I honestly can't wait, the anticipation keeps me looking back at this page every day looking for updates.
Excellent work so far on the map, i think its better we just not see screens for now, so we will get the full surprise when we all get to play the map for the first time.
I honestly can't wait, the anticipation keeps me looking back at this page every day looking for updates.
Excellent work so far on the map, i think its better we just not see screens for now, so we will get the full surprise when we all get to play the map for the first time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's very kind of you, hero. Here's to progress
Here here.
I really want to take a look at your map.