Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
@critiques: Hehehe, mappers get twitchy when you attack their baby. But I am sure fmpone is taking everything into account.
@fmpone: Keep up the good work man! Can't wait to play this. Are you already having some playtesting games to check everything out? Your screenshots are always nice but they concentrate on a visual aspect of things more than a gameplay aspect, and that's what makes people fear for gameplay. I know your style, and that is the nature of the project you have taken as you are not designing the gameplay aspect of it, relying on the spaces the original veil had.
But, lessons I've learned with turtle and hopefully any mapper can benefit from, I have learned to go away from the artistic side of things and put things in submission to gameplay. Even if it relies on unrealistic lighting and sometimes very simple rooms where base geometry prevails on props.
Players in the long run won't even see the visuals. The visuals are the background to their thoughts. They do not see the walls but the spaces that they create.
<!--quoteo(post=1893913:date=Jan 12 2012, 02:21 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Jan 12 2012, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Players in the long run won't even see the visuals. The visuals are the background to their thoughts. They do not see the walls but the spaces that they create.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow... You mind if I use that in my signature? That is an amazing line of text...
<!--quoteo(post=1893918:date=Jan 12 2012, 02:33 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Jan 12 2012, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Players won't? Bioshock is stunning. Simply stunning. Although I can tell you now I noticed that 90% of the ceilings are flat and one texture.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> By Bioshock, do you mean the single player or multiplayer aspect (Bioshock 2)? Since we are talking about NS2, I'm assuming your referring to Bioshock 2 multiplayer. Are there any tournaments or organized brackets structured for it? How is the current activity in BioShock 2 multiplayer scene? Take a peak at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISKpZ5lVRw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISKpZ5lVRw</a> and watch 5:07. Comparing BioShock 2 is not viable in this overall discussion (about ns2_veil). Once again, as I stated in the other thread regarding environments, comparing single player to multiplayer will never produce any successful debates in level design.
<b>Singleplayer: </b>stop and admire the environment = Move on when your ready <b>Multiplayer:</b> stop and admire the environment = Dead
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Let me add in a multiplayer game they won't. You think about your enemies and teammates and where you need to be, and just run around to where you need to be. The more you know a map the less you look at the visuals. A multiplayer map is also going to be played over and over again, and again the more people play it, the more the gameplay it creates is important, not visuals.
In a single player game story is much more important and the visuals tell that story. I haven't played Bioshock but from what I've seen the environment is maybe the most important character in that story. Each room will be like a page in a book, and the player will stop to read it. In multiplayer you don't stop and you don't want to be reading the visuals while your teammates need you.
Like in single player you want your map to tell a story, but from my experience that story pulls new players to the map and is not what keeps them playing it.
I was talking about Bioshock 1. However Bioshock 2 had just as much effort put in to the environment art just not the game play aspect. It still remained extremely pretty and there is no reason you can't have a pretty environment.
zombiehellmonkeyJoin Date: 2007-08-31Member: 62093Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1893923:date=Jan 12 2012, 03:44 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Jan 12 2012, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1893923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like in single player you want your map to tell a story, but from my experience that story pulls new players to the map and is not what keeps them playing it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the way you put that! I feel that's exactly how it is. And the single player environment is designed to be more like a shooting range where you can take your time killing the AI - there are almost visual clues when the enemies appear. The multiplayer environment is one where you have to think on your feet, and that is the fun element, not just standing there with a minigun and plowing down lots of AI enemies.
<!--quoteo(post=1894354:date=Jan 14 2012, 07:06 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Jan 14 2012, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No screenshots yet, just thought I'd let you guys know that I believe I've permanently resolved the brightness issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old veil (NS1 veil) was sort of a constant, full-bright bright orange. I've matched that a lot more than what I had, which was kind of a pallid greyish orange, which was very lifeless feeling in addition to not providing enough light. So, it's about providing a brighter color which allows for more plausibility in lighting previously unlit corners as well. Overall, the map has a much warmer, redder tone that before.
Yeah, on January 19th the US Government decided it didn't need SOPA or PIPA or ACTA to shutdown foreign websites. It already had the power to do it, it just wanted to use those legislations to further justify their illicit actions. AMERICA.
I dont know then name of the MAP but it was one of the first NS1 maps i played. I hope anyone remember this one :D and make a "ns2" version of it.
<img src="http://upload.playstar.se/upload/msSpawn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> I only remember the MS spawn and that you could lock the doors :)
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1897905:date=Jan 28 2012, 04:29 PM:name=cH40z-Lord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cH40z-Lord @ Jan 28 2012, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm also waiting for a mirror :) Would be cool if someone could upload the map elsewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/" target="_blank">www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/</a> There you go! :) FMPONE if you want to have access to the database so you can update ns2_veil, and eventually other maps. Then please sign up if you wanna help us maintain your latests versions, and give the community an alternative to browsing forums for files. :) You get a download counter, and a page specificly for your map with some details and the minimap. When you sign up, I need to assign you to the Map/Mod Maker member group, and give you the ownership of the current site of ns2_veil. <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/4/ns2_veil/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/4/ns2_veil/</a>
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
Thanks Swalk, I'll be more involved with that soon. Man, I'm so beat. Cargo is done, just gotta do Y junction and Dres and the map is done. But I'm really exhausted lately, it feels like I've caught sight of the end of the tunnel and collapsed!
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1898114:date=Jan 30 2012, 01:45 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Jan 30 2012, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks Swalk, I'll be more involved with that soon. Man, I'm so beat. Cargo is done, just gotta do Y junction and Dres and the map is done. But I'm really exhausted lately, it feels like I've caught sight of the end of the tunnel and collapsed!
I'll man up soon guys :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds plain awesome, take the time you need to create the rest of this beauty! No need to rush it :D
<!--quoteo(post=1897902:date=Jan 28 2012, 02:47 PM:name=BuzterOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BuzterOne @ Jan 28 2012, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I only remember the MS spawn and that you could lock the doors :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
isn't that the ns_bast? I'm abstinent for 2,5 years, but thats the one, or the older version of it, which you were thinking about.
Comments
@fmpone: Keep up the good work man! Can't wait to play this. Are you already having some playtesting games to check everything out? Your screenshots are always nice but they concentrate on a visual aspect of things more than a gameplay aspect, and that's what makes people fear for gameplay. I know your style, and that is the nature of the project you have taken as you are not designing the gameplay aspect of it, relying on the spaces the original veil had.
But, lessons I've learned with turtle and hopefully any mapper can benefit from, I have learned to go away from the artistic side of things and put things in submission to gameplay. Even if it relies on unrealistic lighting and sometimes very simple rooms where base geometry prevails on props.
Players in the long run won't even see the visuals. The visuals are the background to their thoughts. They do not see the walls but the spaces that they create.
wow... You mind if I use that in my signature? That is an amazing line of text...
By Bioshock, do you mean the single player or multiplayer aspect (Bioshock 2)? Since we are talking about NS2, I'm assuming your referring to Bioshock 2 multiplayer. Are there any tournaments or organized brackets structured for it? How is the current activity in BioShock 2 multiplayer scene? Take a peak at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISKpZ5lVRw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISKpZ5lVRw</a> and watch 5:07. Comparing BioShock 2 is not viable in this overall discussion (about ns2_veil). Once again, as I stated in the other thread regarding environments, comparing single player to multiplayer will never produce any successful debates in level design.
<b>Singleplayer: </b>stop and admire the environment = Move on when your ready
<b>Multiplayer:</b> stop and admire the environment = Dead
In a single player game story is much more important and the visuals tell that story. I haven't played Bioshock but from what I've seen the environment is maybe the most important character in that story. Each room will be like a page in a book, and the player will stop to read it. In multiplayer you don't stop and you don't want to be reading the visuals while your teammates need you.
Like in single player you want your map to tell a story, but from my experience that story pulls new players to the map and is not what keeps them playing it.
I like the way you put that! I feel that's exactly how it is. And the single player environment is designed to be more like a shooting range where you can take your time killing the AI - there are almost visual clues when the enemies appear. The multiplayer environment is one where you have to think on your feet, and that is the fun element, not just standing there with a minigun and plowing down lots of AI enemies.
Mind elaborating?
r_mode unlit baby!
Old veil (NS1 veil) was sort of a constant, full-bright bright orange. I've matched that a lot more than what I had, which was kind of a pallid greyish orange, which was very lifeless feeling in addition to not providing enough light. So, it's about providing a brighter color which allows for more plausibility in lighting previously unlit corners as well. Overall, the map has a much warmer, redder tone that before.
The old elevator room is now the Boiler Room. no pics i'm afraid
Your tutorials on spark are very helpful, thanks again !
<a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROEC7Z5A" target="_blank">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROEC7Z5A</a>
ENJOY :)
</b>
----------------------
<b>ALPHA 1 MAP RELEASED! Download here
<a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V43MVJ1E" target="_blank">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V43MVJ1E</a>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38570801/ns2_veil_alpha1.rar" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38570801/ns2_veil_alpha1.rar</a>
ENJOY :)
</b>
----------------------
Hey guys. Veil re-make here. <b><u>The day 186 drops, an alpha version of this map drops too. No excuses from me.</u></b>
I punched up marine spawn to give you guys an idea of what I want the finished map to look like.
In NS2 terms, this is a huge map. Maybe two summits.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
please reupload, megaupload is gone and dropbox has 404
I hope anyone remember this one :D and make a "ns2" version of it.
<img src="http://upload.playstar.se/upload/msSpawn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I only remember the MS spawn and that you could lock the doors :)
/edit i tryed to be pro at "paint" haha
Just awesome :)
I hope the ns2 welder works the same way as the ns1 welder.
Close vents and doors!!!
I'm also waiting for a mirror :) Would be cool if someone could upload the map elsewhere.
<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/" target="_blank">www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/</a>
There you go! :)
FMPONE if you want to have access to the database so you can update ns2_veil, and eventually other maps.
Then please sign up if you wanna help us maintain your latests versions, and give the community an alternative to browsing forums for files. :)
You get a download counter, and a page specificly for your map with some details and the minimap.
When you sign up, I need to assign you to the Map/Mod Maker member group, and give you the ownership of the current site of ns2_veil.
<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/4/ns2_veil/" target="_blank">http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/4/ns2_veil/</a>
I'll man up soon guys :P
I'll man up soon guys :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds plain awesome, take the time you need to create the rest of this beauty!
No need to rush it :D
isn't that the ns_bast? I'm abstinent for 2,5 years, but thats the one, or the older version of it, which you were thinking about.
<img src="http://brywright.co.uk/ns2/manual-104/ns_bast.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />