<!--quoteo(post=1795212:date=Aug 19 2010, 08:48 PM:name=Recupel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Recupel @ Aug 19 2010, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really nice. I like the design of the 10th. Imo, having 2-3 different designs will increase the idea of "chaotic swarm".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this crag structure! It seems to add a lot of familiar and new tactics while being fun for the commander and the other players. I second that 2-3 designs would be best since they seem to have different roles (slowing down, doing damage, obscuring vision) but I understand that modeling is a lot of work. I like the # 5 the most. :)
In the concept art the Marine is relaxed and is taking the time to ask himself "What the hell is this crap?" If #4 popped it's head out I'm sure he'd start blasting. . .
I'm not saying he wouldn't shoot #7, but it is the least threatening looking and ammo is precious
Also as a side note:
The Crag is a tough nut to crack, but what if it had a weakness you could exploit? Say a Marine slips a nade down one of the chimneys for an insta-kill?
I think it would be rewarding game play if you got close enough or had an extremely lucky throw
<!--quoteo(post=1795659:date=Aug 21 2010, 09:29 AM:name=hookuy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hookuy @ Aug 21 2010, 09:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, who is gonna make the skin? you? Once again, have you read their answer about this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there's a difference from making an entirely different model and just adding a minor recolor or a few differing speckles or something to the already existing skin once they decide on whatever that look would be, it isn't nearly as infeasible or time consuming as whole new models and skins.
Frankly you could likely knock out a couple variations on any of the already existing skins (if they aren't 'too' different) in the span of 1-3 hours in photoshop after you have the original.
Kinda why custom skins and not models are the most common custom content of any game really.
There's my say on that topic, in the end I can just suggest and bring about ideas or support of other ideas.
I don't think it's too much to ask nobody gets snippy if you don't like it.
<!--quoteo(post=1795676:date=Aug 21 2010, 03:16 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Aug 21 2010, 03:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does the crag move at all? I see little tentacle like 'legs'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like for the Crag to move, even if it just slurps along like a barnacle.
Though, making it twice as cheap accomplishes the same thing (more area of effect eventually) and requires no moving animation.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1795646:date=Aug 22 2010, 01:44 AM:name=Cruor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cruor @ Aug 22 2010, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Continuing to play around with crab pincer concept, just to give Cory and the team a few new ideas to ball around with. I don't know about the eyes tho, threw in some of those elongated crab eyes. Here's the modified nr 4 candidate.
<img src="http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/586/nr4j.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yo dawg, i heard you like crabs.....
what if you draw some more antennae and feelers on it? i think a crab/insect creature would look awesome
I must admit I am with others. I would love to see 2-3 or more models come out at once. I understand making addittional models is time consuming but I do believe you guys have always been of the opinion do it right not do it the quickest way.
In saying that the order of my favorites is probably:
#9 #8 #2
However should you determine you can afford the time reskins would be an alternative as suggested. Cheers
For Babbers I like the spider look of number 1 most of the others are clones of headcrabs or one of the Aliens from Starship Troopers. Originality is best.
<!--quoteo(post=1795705:date=Aug 22 2010, 12:42 AM:name=Decipher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Decipher @ Aug 22 2010, 12:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I must admit I am with others. I would love to see 2-3 or more models come out at once. I understand making addittional models is time consuming but I do believe you guys have always been of the opinion do it right not do it the quickest way.
In saying that the order of my favorites is probably:
#9 #8 #2
However should you determine you can afford the time reskins would be an alternative as suggested. Cheers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're still not reading what he said though. Look at it this way. You see a beehive in your backyard and you think, what if another insect where to infiltrate the beehive. What do you think would happen? The bees would probably be pretty pissed and ###### up that tresspasser. You only see bees coming out of a bee hive. You wont ever see another species come from it.
I think one model from the crag is sufficient enough.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Well there is one creature that can imitate their pheromones (not sure if it was bees or ants), but then again. It is not exactly there with good intentions <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Fact is, seeing different species cooperate is very rare, I once saw a hyena tolerate two wild dogs while trying to take down a buffalo calf. They were working together at taking it down, but once the other wild dogs from that pack came along, the hyena gorged down all he could and got out of there as fast as he could.
But then again.... Hive mind? <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
If not too daunting in the modeling/animation, i'd say that you can save some headache and go for 2-3 different critters from the Crag and have a fair share of those be expelled when the commander wants to. You can always do that in free time, i mean, when the modeler(s) are tired on working on their main task, they can always pick up and add up/finish on one of the critters.
<!--quoteo(post=1795763:date=Aug 22 2010, 01:50 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Aug 22 2010, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, the kharaa are different species. slulk, onos, fade etc... cooperating because of those bacteria!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do raise a good point. Babblers are also of the Kharaa species, but the difference is that babblers are created in the Crag much like a bee hive, where as the Hive which produces eggs to gestate skulks acts more like an actual organism, which is what I think Cory was trying to say, although it's quite clear the crag does have life to it with the underbody, and the tentacles that flail out.
The point is though is that, it'd be way too much work to have multiple babbler types. Animating all of those would be a ######, and they'd have to pay their 3D modeller extra money and spend time programming all of that in.
Even look at the movie Aliens. All the Aliens look identical except for the queen which is even very very similar to how a bee colony works. Doesn't the queen bee have like a red stinger and is much larger than the workers?
<!--quoteo(post=1795797:date=Aug 22 2010, 11:35 PM:name=Crispix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispix @ Aug 22 2010, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and spend time programming all of that in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's not true, they can (and should) be all the same entity, but you can load different models, than for animations, since they would all have the same names, they would work just fine. It would be treated like when you fire off debris.
The race point you raise is logical but isn't any alien spawning as the same kind of alien and <i>then</i> evolve from a flying beast to a behemoth?
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2010
I think the idea of multiple kinds of babblers is a very nice idea on paper. But in the heart of the game, you won't really care. The difficulty of designing is making something look like what it is supposed to be, and keeping a same level of design across the whole project.
Could you tell one bee from another? one ant from another? One could say there is a design consistency among insects and the environment so it looks cool even if we can't tell the difference.
It's a difficult thing to express. It's like the saying, you can't see the tree in the forest. What you see is the forest. And I think it has to be the same when you design something otherwise it doesn't feel right. You need consistency. Multiple babblers will bring a feeling of inconsistency. And it might even hurt the overall design.
The alien team isn't several species cooperating. It's not even "cooperation" at all, I don't think. It's one intelligent entity controlling separate entities of itself it has shaped based on previously encountered species.
Also disagree that any of these are not suitably mobile enough, it's all about power to weight ratio's and it means any of these designs could be fast enough and still look "right" if handled properly
So, did we already discuss that the gorge cant build anymore?! I find that rather unnerving. A huge plus for ns1 was that both teams worked differently, so in principle you got two games in one. AND protecting and nurturing omne or two gorges with res was an awesome play mechanic...
Anyone else thinks this sucks? (i know that uwe can do what they want, but was there some kind of discussiom about this? I surely would like to read up onthat)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1795867:date=Aug 23 2010, 12:10 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 23 2010, 12:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1795867"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, the other Kharaa are basically mammalian in appearance, so what's going on with these guys?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well they want them to swarm and we know from the Khaara bacteria, they infest and assimilate creatures which are most effective in their role... And these guys have to be able to swarm, tell me... Do you know of any other creature type that can swarm like pro's other then insects?
Comments
I like the design of the 10th.
Imo, having 2-3 different designs will increase the idea of "chaotic swarm".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this crag structure! It seems to add a lot of familiar and new tactics while being fun for the commander and the other players. I second that 2-3 designs would be best since they seem to have different roles (slowing down, doing damage, obscuring vision) but I understand that modeling is a lot of work. I like the # 5 the most. :)
In the concept art the Marine is relaxed and is taking the time to ask himself "What the hell is this crap?"
If #4 popped it's head out I'm sure he'd start blasting. . .
I'm not saying he wouldn't shoot #7, but it is the least threatening looking and ammo is precious
Also as a side note:
The Crag is a tough nut to crack, but what if it had a weakness you could exploit?
Say a Marine slips a nade down one of the chimneys for an insta-kill?
I think it would be rewarding game play if you got close enough or had an extremely lucky throw
Well there's a difference from making an entirely different model and just adding a minor recolor or a few differing speckles or something to the already existing skin once they decide on whatever that look would be, it isn't nearly as infeasible or time consuming as whole new models and skins.
Frankly you could likely knock out a couple variations on any of the already existing skins (if they aren't 'too' different) in the span of 1-3 hours in photoshop after you have the original.
Kinda why custom skins and not models are the most common custom content of any game really.
There's my say on that topic, in the end I can just suggest and bring about ideas or support of other ideas.
I don't think it's too much to ask nobody gets snippy if you don't like it.
I'd like for the Crag to move, even if it just slurps along like a barnacle.
Though, making it twice as cheap accomplishes the same thing (more area of effect eventually) and requires no moving animation.
<img src="http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/586/nr4j.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yo dawg, i heard you like crabs.....
what if you draw some more antennae and feelers on it? i think a crab/insect creature would look awesome
In saying that the order of my favorites is probably:
#9
#8
#2
However should you determine you can afford the time reskins would be an alternative as suggested.
Cheers
This is from GW 40K Ripper Swarm.
<img src="http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m490319_99060106012_TyranidRipperSwarmMain_873x627.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/ZEN/Scute_Mob.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
In saying that the order of my favorites is probably:
#9
#8
#2
However should you determine you can afford the time reskins would be an alternative as suggested.
Cheers<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're still not reading what he said though. Look at it this way. You see a beehive in your backyard and you think, what if another insect where to infiltrate the beehive. What do you think would happen? The bees would probably be pretty pissed and ###### up that tresspasser. You only see bees coming out of a bee hive. You wont ever see another species come from it.
I think one model from the crag is sufficient enough.
Fact is, seeing different species cooperate is very rare, I once saw a hyena tolerate two wild dogs while trying to take down a buffalo calf. They were working together at taking it down, but once the other wild dogs from that pack came along, the hyena gorged down all he could and got out of there as fast as he could.
But then again.... Hive mind? <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/tongue.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You do raise a good point. Babblers are also of the Kharaa species, but the difference is that babblers are created in the Crag much like a bee hive, where as the Hive which produces eggs to gestate skulks acts more like an actual organism, which is what I think Cory was trying to say, although it's quite clear the crag does have life to it with the underbody, and the tentacles that flail out.
The point is though is that, it'd be way too much work to have multiple babbler types. Animating all of those would be a ######, and they'd have to pay their 3D modeller extra money and spend time programming all of that in.
Even look at the movie Aliens. All the Aliens look identical except for the queen which is even very very similar to how a bee colony works. Doesn't the queen bee have like a red stinger and is much larger than the workers?
that's not true, they can (and should) be all the same entity, but you can load different models, than for animations, since they would all have the same names, they would work just fine. It would be treated like when you fire off debris.
The race point you raise is logical but isn't any alien spawning as the same kind of alien and <i>then</i> evolve from a flying beast to a behemoth?
the only one i really do not like is #10
edit:
#1 and #3 is what you should go for.. it has the ability to have that glowing body that fits the rest of the game.
a lot of them look like they where taken from star ship troopers.
Could you tell one bee from another? one ant from another? One could say there is a design consistency among insects and the environment so it looks cool even if we can't tell the difference.
It's a difficult thing to express. It's like the saying, you can't see the tree in the forest. What you see is the forest. And I think it has to be the same when you design something otherwise it doesn't feel right. You need consistency. Multiple babblers will bring a feeling of inconsistency. And it might even hurt the overall design.
Edit: In short, one thing for one role.
Anyone else thinks this sucks? (i know that uwe can do what they want, but was there some kind of discussiom about this? I surely would like to read up onthat)
Well they want them to swarm and we know from the Khaara bacteria, they infest and assimilate creatures which are most effective in their role... And these guys have to be able to swarm, tell me... Do you know of any other creature type that can swarm like pro's other then insects?