ns_summit

Candide

I noticed you could build structures in the six pillars in crossroads, making them inaccessible for aliens while helping greatly the marine team.

Placing inaccessible <b>power packs</b>, <b>observatories </b>and even <b>sentry turrets </b>than can still fire through the pillar is too easy to abuse. Especially the turret one when powered. I tried then as an alien and that turret killed me, if I didn't know already where it were, I would have no clue wtf happened.

<img src="http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7513/bug1lc.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

For the record, the drifters can't place whips or structures there, but cysts can be dropped there by the alien commander.

Jonacrab

I have the same problem in the map Im making. It has to do with props, basically you can make them visible or invisible to the comm, if you make them invisible, the comm doesnt know its there. If its visible, any surface that is facing the commander becomes fair game for building on. Typically if you try to build on tiny ledges like that, the building either lands on top of it, or sometimes it will fall through to an object lower than it. The only way I was able to solve it was to make the pillars invisible to comm, then cut a hole in the plane below it, in the shape of it. It really was an ugly fix because now the commander view has only 2 holes in the ground where the pillars should be. We really need the ability to make props or geometry unbuildable upon. I dont think its a problem that will be solved by the mappers.

Kouji_San

function_nobuild was awesome for this very thing, a simple invisible brush on which the commander couldn't build. It could be placed above the floor, making the floor underneath effectively inaccessible.

McGlaspie

Could some simple planes / flat surfaces be added to the bottom of every arc or doorway in the map? From the Marine commander's view there are holes in the map where meds/ammo fall through and cause servers to tick to drop super low.

Hackepeter

<!--quoteo(post=1870167:date=Aug 20 2011, 10:48 AM:name=Sturmf4lke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sturmf4lke @ Aug 20 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also have a proposal. First. Awesome map. But currently in the most games Crossroads is more or less ignored from both teams.
How about creating a double resource spot in Crossroads. This would increase the diversity of tactics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+10

IMO it isn't worth the hassle to get that single resources node because it's not easy to protect. The solution would be a double resource spot! Crossroad is just perfect for that because it has so many entrances and is in the mid of the map.

Sewlek

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about creating a double resource spot in Crossroads<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

that would be cool

Nasdero

<!--quoteo(post=1872478:date=Sep 1 2011, 11:43 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Sep 1 2011, 11:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that would be cool<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i second that it would make xroads more attractive cuz now its to open and attackaple from to much sides to be woth fighting for.

vizioNz

<!--quoteo(post=1872470:date=Sep 1 2011, 05:31 AM:name=Hackepeter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hackepeter @ Sep 1 2011, 05:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+10

IMO it isn't worth the hassle to get that single resources node because it's not easy to protect. The solution would be a double resource spot! Crossroad is just perfect for that because it has so many entrances and is in the mid of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Create a double resource location and add a rock like vent above it that connects to the vent that goes to the lockable door and the entrance to crossroads from flight control. Now you got a awesome resource location :).

However, it will be much easier for Marines to cap and hold this location than Kharaa. Spreading a postule chain from Alien Start to Crossroads isn't exactly easy. The best road is to go through Reactor Room. Interested to see how pSy approaches this idea...

Jonacrab

I think making crossroads a double node will just make it far too appealing for marines. That location is just a hop away from both of the other expansions, and adding a double node will make marines go for that hive first, which will then give them dominating map control. One of the reasons marines dont go for it now is because its just one RT and no power node. Aliens dont take that hive because its accessible from both sides of the map, so if the commander spots a hive, he can just order the team to go there and they can all converge on it. The other hives are better locations for aliens because there is only one direction to come from (unless they run through crossroads to the backside, which is too much effort for most marines)

Adding a double node is a bad idea IMO.

ZycaR

dding power node will helps alot to see more games with early reloc into xroads .. for marines :D

Hackepeter

Yeah true, Aliens have to build cysts in the first place so it's harder for them to get that double res BUT if the Marines focus on the dres in the early game they do less pressure on data core or heliport, that means it would be easier for aliens to get a hive there and the marines have to protect the dres in anyway or they just loosing 2 extractors before they amortized. Marines would be in a dilemma: getting dres OR getting the the hive spots.

I think a dres at crossroads would make the map just more thrilling! :)

subshadow

Double res at crossroads gives both teams a choice, double or data core.
if marines have double, they can simply build a base there and attacj datacore from two directions + cutting off the infestation path from AS to datacore.

I like the idea but more tought is needed.
Maybe first make it more appealing for aliens to take heliport, so they are equally attractive.

Wilson

I feel like both crossroads and especially heliport need to be improved for aliens. Right now all of the focus in this map is in ventilation and data core because that's the best hive location by far. If crossroads couldn't be seen / shot from the walkway it may be a bit better. Heliport is far too open and easy for the marines to scout and then snipe it from the entrance. The whole left side of the map is just full of long corridors that make it really easy for marines to camp and take out any incoming skulks easily.

I feel that if all 3 locations were relativity equal in terms of aliens ability to defend a hive then this map would be a lot more interesting. It's just a fight over data core at the moment because any hive that gets put up in the other locations will go down a lot quicker.

Hackepeter

<!--quoteo(post=1873435:date=Sep 7 2011, 12:46 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 7 2011, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel that if all 3 locations were relativity equal in terms of aliens ability to defend a hive then this map would be a lot more interesting. It's just a fight over data core at the moment because any hive that gets put up in the other locations will go down a lot quicker.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah heli should be a bit better for the aliens but not too much. IMO Data Core is very alien friendly almost too alien friendly so it's fair that Heliport is a bit more suitable for mariens. The tech nodes are not just for hives but also for command stations. It would be unfair if all tech node locations are just designed for the aliens. But no doubt about crossroads it's curretly just no option for the alien team.

Btw, I love summit. It's a very pretty map. pSyk0mAns work is awesome!

Cygone

<!--quoteo(post=1861559:date=Jul 19 2011, 10:22 AM:name=Taxen0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Taxen0 @ Jul 19 2011, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like skulking at heliport, it's a good location for a hive. but semi-awake marines will spot you when you try to use the vent to get around them, it's still good for flanking when they have entered the room.

the main issue is that the hive is visible directly from the door. so you can easily lob grenades/arc it from the (usually turret infested corridor) and not have to enter the room.

the arcs are fine, that's how they are supposed to work. but It could use some sort of cover to protect it from fire and force the marines to enter the room.

heliport is fine, could use some improvements but overall fine. SA is simply just better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

QFT +1

Cygone

<!--quoteo(post=1875521:date=Sep 19 2011, 02:49 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Sep 19 2011, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ul><li>The ONOS cannot fit in Summit. I've tried and he will be at a massive disadvantage. Can you imagine an Onos trying to flee Marine start going through Ventilation? He's just a GIANT meat target that can't jump because all the areas are too small.</li><li>HMGs can be implemented to level out gameplay for tier 2.</li><li>Jetpacks can be implemented but will not be as useful because half the map is extremely short in height.</li><li>HA (Exoskeleton) will not be introduced before you see a reveal at the least. Look how long ago the Onos reveal was released, do you see an Onos? :P</li></ul>

Patience is the only thing we have in our favor for now...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just copied this from another thread I was reading.


Are we going to have issues with the Onos on this map due to its size? I am aware they point about moving an Onos via Vent is mute as they can go though the door to xr.

vizioNz

<!--quoteo(post=1875544:date=Sep 19 2011, 11:20 AM:name=Cygone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cygone @ Sep 19 2011, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just copied this from another thread I was reading.


Are we going to have issues with the Onos on this map due to its size? I am aware they point about moving an Onos via Vent is mute as they can go though the door to xr.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they can't... Any experienced marine command will lock the door and the only exit is through the stairs in Vent. So, no, it is note mute my friend.

The only locations that can house an Onos properly are:
<ol type='1'><li>Heliport (it's being re-done, so none of us know what to expect)</li><li>Crevice (How often does any Alien spend in Crevice? Not much)</li><li>Alien Start (I'm sure the Onos is being real effective in Alien Start)</li></ol>
That's it... Everywhere else is to low (compared to NS1 maps) and is riddled with tons of objects (boxes, wires, railings) that limit the sheer width of the massive model. If I could make a suggestion for summit is wider and taller with much more space!

Cygone

Wow, really! Yes we know the door will lock, however Onos are ament to be able to break down welded / locked doors. Depends on how this feature works out tho.

pSyk0mAn

I'm happy to make the map more onos friendly.

When I built Summit I've run through the map as Onos aswell (you could use the onos command to get the big player size for testing). I didn't notice any problems (although it seems all the player sizes increased causing new stuck bugs all over the map) and I'm not sure, if the Onos really needs to jump everywhere.
Low ceilings are certainly not an issue, when it comes to Onos chasing jetpacks.
In NS1 onos players frequently crouch jumped or crouch-bhopped to gain more fluid movement; not sure how this will work in NS2.
The point about the door is moot, since the Onos can break it.

elodea

I've been meaning to ask if this hiding spot behind a bit of cabling is intended! :p. It makes you invulnerable to melee attacks like in the vent tunnel underneath xroads.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/4jiZe.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Alchemda

The spot.. maybe.. but being invuln is definitely not. Until they can get better hitboxes for props (you know to actually be the physical dimensions of the prop) you will be invuln. You have this issue with cables, railings etc where your bullets or melees are stopped by the prop even though your crosshair is clearly pointed at the other side.

Cygone

What do you think about the possibility of adding a vent between AS > XR, as it stands now, Marines can get reinforcements to XR much faster than aliens can because of the door in Ventilation, It might also add some more game play to Aliens basically ignoring XR

pSyk0mAn

Yes, that's a good point.

I thought about adding a vent from Crevice to the Crossroads entrance (Summit Reception side), so that side gets a little more used.
Or maybe a vent from Summit Reception into Crossroads and a rework of the corridor from there to Crossroads, so it adds a 1 second of travel time and more important Marines can't shoot the hive from the corridor anymore and have to go around into Crossroads.

basti1337

hey psykoman, can you give us some informations about the upcoming heliport changes? will you make it till friday?

Cygone

<!--quoteo(post=1876331:date=Sep 22 2011, 06:55 PM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Sep 22 2011, 06:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876331"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, that's a good point.

I thought about adding a vent from Crevice to the Crossroads entrance (Summit Reception side), so that side gets a little more used.
Or maybe a vent from Summit Reception into Crossroads and a rework of the corridor from there to Crossroads, so it adds a 1 second of travel time and more important Marines can't shoot the hive from the corridor anymore and have to go around into Crossroads.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


You talking about marines shotting the XR hive from just inside XR via the lockable door?

Surly adding a vent from SR > XR almost negates the value of the vent considering the 'hallway' really isnt much longer.

How about adding a junction to the vent from AS > Crev that goes to XR?

Maze of vents = good =)

BJHBnade_spammer

@elodea if you stay there you are easily trapped so that is i good spot to hide but you cannot get away once someone finds you there atleast not easly and it is a nice hiding place so i hope it stays in as it is rarely used.

darkmatter

Very well layed out map pSyk0mAn. Check your message.

twiliteblue

It looks like someone's found the map annotate feature, and got carried away with it. :P

marks

Vertex buffer memory at 150mb?! Holy sheeeeeeet

Twiggeh

<!--quoteo(post=1875547:date=Sep 19 2011, 05:32 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Sep 19 2011, 05:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No they can't... <b>Any experienced marine command will lock the door</b> and the only exit is through the stairs in Vent. So, no, it is note mute my friend.

The only locations that can house an Onos properly are:
<ol type='1'><li>Heliport (it's being re-done, so none of us know what to expect)</li><li>Crevice (How often does any Alien spend in Crevice? Not much)</li><li>Alien Start (I'm sure the Onos is being real effective in Alien Start)</li></ol>
That's it... Everywhere else is to low (compared to NS1 maps) and is riddled with tons of objects (boxes, wires, railings) that limit the sheer width of the massive model. If I could make a suggestion for summit is wider and taller with much more space!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yes, any experienced comm will probably do that, but any experienced Onos will bash the door open so it wont matter.