Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1872699:date=Sep 2 2011, 12:47 PM:name=Tykjen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tykjen @ Sep 2 2011, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In these times of pure ###### and reboots and remakes, Deus Ex: HR stands out as something special, and not something recycled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed it does, it does have some things which I'd rather not have and is missing some things the original Deus Ex had. But those would mostly fall into the category of nitpicking. The game as a whole more then makes up for these designs flaws!
DX: IW was not that bad a game. Most people complaining about it probably didn't even play it.
Yeah, the levels were tiny and the shared ammo pool was dumb and the interface was ridiculous, but if you don't think DX:HR is as dumbed-down as IW was, you're not looking hard enough.
DX: IW still deserves to be hated as it was pretty much the spearhead title that set the tone for the next six years of making dumbed-down console games and moving them to the PC, but it's really no more dumb than any other game we get these days, so at face value it's hardly that evil.
Actually, come to think of it, HR is exactly as dumbed-down as Invisible War, I think we've all just gotten used to it. Reviewers are giving HR higher scores than they gave to DX1, kind of goes to prove my point.
It's actually kind of ironic when you think about it: a new technology threatens to introduce a brave new world that not everyone is willing to accept, fearing the consequences of what would happen if we all just went with it. And years in the future, resistance caved and "progress" was inevitable, no matter how terrible the consequences, and the public has become jaded to the concept and now accepts it freely as if nothing was wrong in the first place.
Am I talking about the theme of Deus Ex or the dumbing-down of the franchise? :D
<!--quoteo(post=1872801:date=Sep 3 2011, 09:21 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Sep 3 2011, 09:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872801"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am I talking about the theme of Deus Ex or the dumbing-down of the franchise? :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any news on the Deus Ex ARG that was launched a few days ago? Apparently you got some code scrolling by at the bottom of the main menu and it has gone from keywords such as: MD5, hashes, image urls, binary code and computer IPs.
A quick google gave me this result, that gives all the details known I imagine. It is apparently a viral marketting for a bit of DLC for the game, there's a description of it at the end of that page. Mind you, the description is a very mild spoiler - I'm just noting this in case people really want to know *nothing* about the game's story prior to playing.
<!--quoteo(post=1872798:date=Sep 3 2011, 12:18 AM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Sep 3 2011, 12:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872798"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good and Invisible War in the same sentence. I have never seen that before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hated it when I first got it but that was probably because I was a lot younger and didn't get the idea of an FPS that I didn't play like half life.
Playing it for the first time properly a few months ago, it's a lot of fun honestly, the stealth works pretty well, you generally have enough ammo and stuff if you're conservative, and it feels a lot less clunky than DE1.
DE1 has a lot of options, but it also feels very rough, IW feels a lot more like HR in terms of shooter mechanics and suchlike, which is good because DE1 is a terrible shooter in every conceivable way, to the point where it actually makes the stealth a lot less fun. The writing reads a lot less like a paranoid conspiracy theorist wrote everything, honestly I don't get the appeal of the DE1 story, seems to run entirely on cliches and I find myself laughing at it for being terrible most of the time.
I'm only after finishing it and I for one found it simply outstanding from start to finish.
Even managed the "foxiest of hounds" achievement for not setting off any alarms although I didn't get the pacifist one because of the glitch mentioned a page back which is kind of a bummer considering not killing people made certain sections of the game a lot harder.
I'm only after finishing it and I for one found it simply outstanding from start to finish.
Even managed the "foxiest of hounds" achievement for not setting off any alarms although I didn't get the pacifist one because of the glitch mentioned a page back which is kind of a bummer considering not killing people made certain sections of the game a lot harder.
Going to replay it now as an absolute ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here. I never even used a stun or tranq gun. P.E.P.S. probably killed those guys... may have to reload a bit... luckily I only used it once towards the end of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1872837:date=Sep 3 2011, 02:45 AM:name=Drake1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drake1 @ Sep 3 2011, 02:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can use demolitions to knock down doors and sections of wall in the last two games as well, and counting the AUD is a stretch seeing as how the point of different infiltration options is to change which routes you can and cannot use, when the AUD is just an extension of hacking.
<!--quoteo(post=1872829:date=Sep 3 2011, 01:47 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Sep 3 2011, 01:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The writing reads a lot less like a paranoid conspiracy theorist wrote everything, honestly I don't get the appeal of the DE1 story, seems to run entirely on cliches and I find myself laughing at it for being terrible most of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The DX1 story runs cliches, especially on the surface level. However, it's really wonderfully littered around the world and it feels like there's always some new e-mail, datacube or book to discover and learn a new viewpoint or even find a way to influence the storyline. It really brings the game world to life, you start thinking how the world works and looking for clues rather than expecting the game to run you from detail to another.
I think it's a huge merit and demonstration of game storytelling power to make a game as involving as DX1 with storyline occassionally as awkward as that.
---
Meanwhile DX2 storyline is maybe slighly less awkward than the first one, but it has lost all the magic of exploration and mystery. It's just a mediocre game plot with some crazy plot twists, but nothing really makes a big difference or stands out. If you want to laugh at conspiracies you can definitely do that with DX2 too, probably more than you did in DX1.
<!--quoteo(post=1872864:date=Sep 3 2011, 04:46 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Sep 3 2011, 04:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can use demolitions to knock down doors and sections of wall in the last two games as well, and counting the AUD is a stretch seeing as how the point of different infiltration options is to change which routes you can and cannot use, when the AUD is just an extension of hacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could use LAM's to blow up some doors but I don't remember any instances where you could blow through walls in the first two games and even if there was it wouldn't have been something you done with regularity so it isn't really the same.
The aud isn't really a stretch seeing as it often gives you access to different paths via higher security level doors that would often be far beyond your hacking level (Especially in the first half of the game).
I loved DX1 but I <i>enjoyed</i> DX3 <i>a lot</i> more.
<!--quoteo(post=1872837:date=Sep 3 2011, 04:45 AM:name=Drake1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drake1 @ Sep 3 2011, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... Even managed the "foxiest of hounds" achievement for not setting off any alarms although I didn't get the pacifist one because of the glitch mentioned a page back which is kind of a bummer considering not killing people made certain sections of the game a lot harder.
Going to replay it now as an absolute ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you are going to disable the satellite dish-thingy I found a crack in wall, but I didn't have wallhack nor punch-tru walls so I detonated a plastic explosive (those blue grenade thingys you get with the DLC) and a guy was apparently standing right behind the wall :/ I didn't bother reloading though, maybe on the next playthrough I'll go for the ach.
Another funny thing about the plastic explosives is that they can knock out people who are sitting down, and push over people who are standing up. The AI goes completely nuts when you throw it (since it requires you to trigger it manually u can just pick it up again).
So far I'm saddened by the previously mentioned AI when it is checking something suspicious out and just walks up to the spot and simply turn around a few times instead of walking around just a bit. It sounds like something they could easily have implemented. Otherwise, really great and I love the parts where you have to convince someone by determining their personality type and act appropriately to what they say. Even with the analyze aug you can't just spam "beta" options even if the character in question is heavily beta. I loved how the first cop called me a "Condescending ######" when I just kept saying "Everything is alright and I'm sorry about your situation".
<!--quoteo(post=1872908:date=Sep 3 2011, 03:11 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Sep 3 2011, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872908"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even with the analyze aug you can't just spam "beta" options even if the character in question is heavily beta. I loved how the first cop called me a "Condescending ######" when I just kept saying "Everything is alright and I'm sorry about your situation".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are the conversation options alpha/beta/omega if the game doesn't outright say as much?
Kinda. Left is alpha, middle is beta, right is omega. But it works better if you listen to what they say and just select the one you think works best in the situation.
I manage to convince everybody even without the augment on my first try.
I was quite bothered to find out most editions sold in Finland included the 10000 credit bonus right away and some other seemingly random gadgeds and weapons.
Can I for example play a clear vanilla game without any extras?
<!--quoteo(post=1872954:date=Sep 3 2011, 10:01 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 3 2011, 10:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just out of interest, how are the DLCs handled?
I was quite bothered to find out most editions sold in Finland included the 10000 credit bonus right away and some other seemingly random gadgeds and weapons.
Can I for example play a clear vanilla game without any extras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When the game starts after the tutorial and intro you get a pop-up that says "Thank you for your DLC purchase, we have added x y z to your inventory". I haven't found a way to enable/disable or even view the current DLCs you have in the options or anywhere else. I believe you are stuck with them each playthrough. Not that I understand why you wouldn't want them, it's one DLC for items you can just drop along with 10.000 credits (I suppose that could be considered an unfair advantage but money is plenty anyway) and one for a "special mission" which should essentially just be another sidequest.
<!--quoteo(post=1872969:date=Sep 3 2011, 11:52 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Sep 3 2011, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All nordic versions of the game has both DLCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope. I don't have extra items or extra money.
<!--quoteo(post=1872978:date=Sep 3 2011, 07:49 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Sep 3 2011, 07:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope. I don't have extra items or extra money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1872969:date=Sep 3 2011, 10:52 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svenpa @ Sep 3 2011, 10:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not that I understand why you wouldn't want them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not sure how it goes in DX3 in particular, but in general I'm strongly dislike the idea of obligatory DLC releases. It just further turns the game into sort of obscure thing that's only purpose is to keep you entertained with various shiny things rather than even trying to form focused and coherent design and content.
Obviously most games don't make much of focused, artistic or intellectual attempt regardless of DLC, but I don't like the idea that each and every game has such strong and unavoidable relation with DLC.
<!--quoteo(post=1873013:date=Sep 4 2011, 06:16 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 4 2011, 06:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure how it goes in DX3 in particular, but in general I'm strongly dislike the idea of obligatory DLC releases. It just further turns the game into sort of obscure thing that's only purpose is to keep you entertained with various shiny things rather than even trying to form focused and coherent design and content.
Obviously most games don't make much of focused, artistic or intellectual attempt regardless of DLC, but I don't like the idea that each and every game has such strong and unavoidable relation with DLC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree and generally avoid DLC as well. A good example of this: Red Dead Redemption was a poignant and somber experience on the whole... and then they released a zombie pack for it. I never bought that DLC since it seemed so antithetical to the original game, even though it got good reviews.
<!--quoteo(post=1873076:date=Sep 4 2011, 04:46 PM:name=Panigg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Panigg @ Sep 4 2011, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873076"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good DLC, like the witcher 2 on the other hand, is pretty sweet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, nothing wrong with the devs having options when it comes to adding content. Right now it just seems to drive games towards a state where you piece together your gaming experience from some varying and obscure set rather than experiencing it as a single well constructed product like a book, film or album.
I guess I'm kind of a silly idealist who would like to see games develop their own bit of culture instead of simply staying as 'something that comfortably wastes 15 hrs of your time and doesn't leave any bad afterthoughts'.
<!--quoteo(post=1872978:date=Sep 4 2011, 01:49 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Sep 4 2011, 01:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872978"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope. I don't have extra items or extra money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose I was a bit vague. I meant all releases with the actual name "nordic version" written on it has both the DLCs.
Fecking annoying when a side mission needs you to get past a door that's locked at a higher level than your hacking skill! Finally found the code to O'Malley's room, but now stuck on one in Shanghai!
Comments
Indeed it does, it does have some things which I'd rather not have and is missing some things the original Deus Ex had. But those would mostly fall into the category of nitpicking. The game as a whole more then makes up for these designs flaws!
Better than invisible war I think too, keeps the good modernised elements of IW but adds back in some of the nifty things from DE1.
Yeah, the levels were tiny and the shared ammo pool was dumb and the interface was ridiculous, but if you don't think DX:HR is as dumbed-down as IW was, you're not looking hard enough.
DX1: Lockpicks. Multitools. Hacking.
DX2: Multitools. Hacking.
DX3: Hacking.
DX: IW still deserves to be hated as it was pretty much the spearhead title that set the tone for the next six years of making dumbed-down console games and moving them to the PC, but it's really no more dumb than any other game we get these days, so at face value it's hardly that evil.
Actually, come to think of it, HR is exactly as dumbed-down as Invisible War, I think we've all just gotten used to it. Reviewers are giving HR higher scores than they gave to DX1, kind of goes to prove my point.
It's actually kind of ironic when you think about it: a new technology threatens to introduce a brave new world that not everyone is willing to accept, fearing the consequences of what would happen if we all just went with it. And years in the future, resistance caved and "progress" was inevitable, no matter how terrible the consequences, and the public has become jaded to the concept and now accepts it freely as if nothing was wrong in the first place.
Am I talking about the theme of Deus Ex or the dumbing-down of the franchise? :D
Oh aren't you just the <i>cleverest</i>.
--Scythe--
<a href="http://www.ign.com/wikis/deus-ex-human-revolution/ARG" target="_blank">Link</a>
I hated it when I first got it but that was probably because I was a lot younger and didn't get the idea of an FPS that I didn't play like half life.
Playing it for the first time properly a few months ago, it's a lot of fun honestly, the stealth works pretty well, you generally have enough ammo and stuff if you're conservative, and it feels a lot less clunky than DE1.
DE1 has a lot of options, but it also feels very rough, IW feels a lot more like HR in terms of shooter mechanics and suchlike, which is good because DE1 is a terrible shooter in every conceivable way, to the point where it actually makes the stealth a lot less fun. The writing reads a lot less like a paranoid conspiracy theorist wrote everything, honestly I don't get the appeal of the DE1 story, seems to run entirely on cliches and I find myself laughing at it for being terrible most of the time.
DX2: Multitools. Hacking.
DX3: Hacking. autolock tool. Break door down. Break through wall.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed.
I'm only after finishing it and I for one found it simply outstanding from start to finish.
Even managed the "foxiest of hounds" achievement for not setting off any alarms although I didn't get the pacifist one because of the glitch mentioned a page back which is kind of a bummer considering not killing people made certain sections of the game a lot harder.
Going to replay it now as an absolute ######.
I'm only after finishing it and I for one found it simply outstanding from start to finish.
Even managed the "foxiest of hounds" achievement for not setting off any alarms although I didn't get the pacifist one because of the glitch mentioned a page back which is kind of a bummer considering not killing people made certain sections of the game a lot harder.
Going to replay it now as an absolute ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here. I never even used a stun or tranq gun. P.E.P.S. probably killed those guys... may have to reload a bit... luckily I only used it once towards the end of the game.
You can use demolitions to knock down doors and sections of wall in the last two games as well, and counting the AUD is a stretch seeing as how the point of different infiltration options is to change which routes you can and cannot use, when the AUD is just an extension of hacking.
The DX1 story runs cliches, especially on the surface level. However, it's really wonderfully littered around the world and it feels like there's always some new e-mail, datacube or book to discover and learn a new viewpoint or even find a way to influence the storyline. It really brings the game world to life, you start thinking how the world works and looking for clues rather than expecting the game to run you from detail to another.
I think it's a huge merit and demonstration of game storytelling power to make a game as involving as DX1 with storyline occassionally as awkward as that.
---
Meanwhile DX2 storyline is maybe slighly less awkward than the first one, but it has lost all the magic of exploration and mystery. It's just a mediocre game plot with some crazy plot twists, but nothing really makes a big difference or stands out. If you want to laugh at conspiracies you can definitely do that with DX2 too, probably more than you did in DX1.
You could use LAM's to blow up some doors but I don't remember any instances where you could blow through walls in the first two games and even if there was it wouldn't have been something you done with regularity so it isn't really the same.
The aud isn't really a stretch seeing as it often gives you access to different paths via higher security level doors that would often be far beyond your hacking level (Especially in the first half of the game).
I loved DX1 but I <i>enjoyed</i> DX3 <i>a lot</i> more.
Even managed the "foxiest of hounds" achievement for not setting off any alarms although I didn't get the pacifist one because of the glitch mentioned a page back which is kind of a bummer considering not killing people made certain sections of the game a lot harder.
Going to replay it now as an absolute ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you are going to disable the satellite dish-thingy I found a crack in wall, but I didn't have wallhack nor punch-tru walls so I detonated a plastic explosive (those blue grenade thingys you get with the DLC) and a guy was apparently standing right behind the wall :/ I didn't bother reloading though, maybe on the next playthrough I'll go for the ach.
Another funny thing about the plastic explosives is that they can knock out people who are sitting down, and push over people who are standing up. The AI goes completely nuts when you throw it (since it requires you to trigger it manually u can just pick it up again).
So far I'm saddened by the previously mentioned AI when it is checking something suspicious out and just walks up to the spot and simply turn around a few times instead of walking around just a bit. It sounds like something they could easily have implemented. Otherwise, really great and I love the parts where you have to convince someone by determining their personality type and act appropriately to what they say. Even with the analyze aug you can't just spam "beta" options even if the character in question is heavily beta. I loved how the first cop called me a "Condescending ######" when I just kept saying "Everything is alright and I'm sorry about your situation".
Are the conversation options alpha/beta/omega if the game doesn't outright say as much?
I manage to convince everybody even without the augment on my first try.
I was quite bothered to find out most editions sold in Finland included the 10000 credit bonus right away and some other seemingly random gadgeds and weapons.
Can I for example play a clear vanilla game without any extras?
I was quite bothered to find out most editions sold in Finland included the 10000 credit bonus right away and some other seemingly random gadgeds and weapons.
Can I for example play a clear vanilla game without any extras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When the game starts after the tutorial and intro you get a pop-up that says "Thank you for your DLC purchase, we have added x y z to your inventory". I haven't found a way to enable/disable or even view the current DLCs you have in the options or anywhere else. I believe you are stuck with them each playthrough. Not that I understand why you wouldn't want them, it's one DLC for items you can just drop along with 10.000 credits (I suppose that could be considered an unfair advantage but money is plenty anyway) and one for a "special mission" which should essentially just be another sidequest.
All nordic versions of the game has both DLCs.
Nope. I don't have extra items or extra money.
r u sure ur a viking?
I'm not sure how it goes in DX3 in particular, but in general I'm strongly dislike the idea of obligatory DLC releases. It just further turns the game into sort of obscure thing that's only purpose is to keep you entertained with various shiny things rather than even trying to form focused and coherent design and content.
Obviously most games don't make much of focused, artistic or intellectual attempt regardless of DLC, but I don't like the idea that each and every game has such strong and unavoidable relation with DLC.
Obviously most games don't make much of focused, artistic or intellectual attempt regardless of DLC, but I don't like the idea that each and every game has such strong and unavoidable relation with DLC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree and generally avoid DLC as well. A good example of this: Red Dead Redemption was a poignant and somber experience on the whole... and then they released a zombie pack for it. I never bought that DLC since it seemed so antithetical to the original game, even though it got good reviews.
Yeah, nothing wrong with the devs having options when it comes to adding content. Right now it just seems to drive games towards a state where you piece together your gaming experience from some varying and obscure set rather than experiencing it as a single well constructed product like a book, film or album.
I guess I'm kind of a silly idealist who would like to see games develop their own bit of culture instead of simply staying as 'something that comfortably wastes 15 hrs of your time and doesn't leave any bad afterthoughts'.
I suppose I was a bit vague. I meant all releases with the actual name "nordic version" written on it has both the DLCs.