Good game, but really way too easy. "Silent" takedowns that freeze time and I subsequently punch a guy in the face, break his arm in three places, and then suplex him into the concrete which are actually incredibly loud, yet his buddy five feet away doesn't hear a thing? Map layout and enemy position makes it really quite easy to sneak through every level, almost too easy. DX1 had many places where without the proper implant it was totally impossible to go certain ways - a camera trained down a hallway, a stubborn guard who wouldn't turn away. I also invested in the sniper rifle, and that was a mistake - there's absolutely nowhere to really use the sniper rifle, almost nothing big enough to really demand it - certainly not enough to justify the fact that it consumes half your inventory.
The worst offender to me would be the way XP is doled out - they wanted to reward you with XP for sneaking through so you weren't getting punished for not attacking hostiles, but honestly all this means is that you should find every vent and go through it anyway just for the XP. Silent takedowns give you 50 XP so sneaking through without attacking anyone loses in favor of taking down every guard you come across, and the significant cash and XP rewards from hacking means even if you know the code, you should just hack it anyway. Kinda ridiculous...
The fact that I can steal from everyone and everything in the game is also kind of immersion killing. I used my CASIE implant to talk my way into the police station, and proceeded to walk right into some guy's office while he was in there, steal his gun, rifle through his desk, and steal 150 credits off his bookshelf and then walk out. All he did was want to talk to me about Robocop.
I find myself too often intentionally shooting guards up just to break myself away from sneaking everywhere - because as mentioned, sneaking is so easy and the ghost / smooth operator rewards are so large it's almost like you're punished for not doing so. I'll also point out that I think these two rewards are there to offset the XP you get for killing everyone - but they don't - you're better off doing silent takedowns on every guard in the level for 50 XP each and then getting both rewards anyway. Combine it with master hacking (possible right after the first mission - you should end with 2 or 3 points from leveling up, 1 you find, and buy 2 at LIMB) and you'll be an XP-grinding machine.
Another note, they really needed to tone down the animations when people are talking. Everyone shakes and waves their arms around like I'm talking to Michael J. Fox in every conversation. Yeah, people don't wave their arms around wildly and nod and gyrate their whole body in normal conversation. I know they wanted to show off if people were comfortable or getting antsy with my conversation choices, but this is kind of ridiculous.
On the plus side, the CASIE minigame is the conversation minigame to end all conversation minigames. It's intuitive, it's fun, and actually makes sense. The hacking minigame is excellent as well, but they really needed to get rid of all the rewards for hacking - hacking should be its own reward - it means you took the easy way out, after all.
<b>If</b> we get mod tools and <b>if</b> they're robust the game can be made a lot better pretty quickly - change the ghost bonus to only reward you if you don't even touch the guards, remove hacking rewards, adjust the XP so you're not punished for killing guards (seriously, fundamentally there's no difference between shooting them with a bullet vs. a tranq dart - they both collapse on the spot - it's really just you being punished for having a different gun that shoots people in the head)...
...actually I think it would have been great if knocked-out guards would wake up after a while - those who were taken down would wake up faster than those hit with the stun gun, and those tranqued would be out for a while - so this way a higher-rewarding XP run using non-lethal and stealthy approach would require you to move fast since the guards won't stay down. The amount of clutter available in the levels and the general sparsity of enemies means it's super-easy to hide bodies as well, so much so that I only just now learned that they will wake up stunned guards. That isn't to say anything for the enemy AI - if they hear a gunshot they'll go to the exact point that the noise originated from, and that's it - I thought they were going to look around a bit but no, they just stand there while you hide behind a corner four feet away until they get bored.
Ultimately I can't help but feel that this is a good game that never really goes 'all the way'. Like every aspect was only developed to 80% of its potential. I think they needed more imagination...
Haven't played DXHR that much yet but I think I have to agree to most of it. Stealth gets grindy in the end, perhaps I should switch to a "shoot everyone" approach for the fun of it.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
Havent' played much of it yet due to the WTF where is my working window mode, performance is bad when forced to play at desktop res :(
Anyway, I saw some guys and thought I'd test the AI. As I usually do in game, harrasing the AI :P They saw me and started shooting, I popped back into cover and moved about 2 meters and they said they lost me...
I was in a frigging corner with no possible way to getting out of there without them seeing me. HOW THE HELL DO YOU LOSE ME WHEN I GO FROM BOX A COVER TO BOX B COVER A FEW METERS FROM BOX A!!!
See, people say Deus Ex 1's AI was so good... I distinctly remember throwing a couple of crates onto the top of some stairs and picking them off point blank as they ran uselessly into the boxes in front of me, apparently unaware that they did not have to be at the same altitude as me to shoot back.
Download this: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu</a> Rename C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\deus ex - human revolution\patch0.000 to patch0.000_ or something. Copy the downloaded patch0.000 over.
<!--quoteo(post=1872120:date=Aug 30 2011, 07:32 PM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zaggy @ Aug 30 2011, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To skip the intro movies:
Download this: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu</a> Rename C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\deus ex - human revolution\patch0.000 to patch0.000_ or something. Copy the downloaded patch0.000 over.
I love this, but it wouldn't even be a problem if they allowed you to skip after forcing the very first time you launch the game. Now we just need a mousefix of some sort.
I am a greedy ######. I got handed 3k for lettting the corrupt police officer go ^ Gotta hope I meet him later in the game. First playthru will be mostly gun blazing. Next playthru is gonna be all stealth. On the hardest it is a good challenge, like realism on Deus Ex 1. 2-3 shots is all I need to die.
The hell do you need money for? I got enough from just selling garbage like spare shotguns to buy all the praxis kits they got and other than that merchants never sell much of interest.
I need money because I am capitalistic. Grinding money in Deus Ex is for ######. Selling one machine gun then going back to get a new one to sell is not my style.
<!--quoteo(post=1872252:date=Aug 31 2011, 11:11 AM:name=Tykjen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tykjen @ Aug 31 2011, 11:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I need money because I am capitalistic. Grinding money in Deus Ex is for ######. Selling one machine gun then going back to get a new one to sell is not my style.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't even have to do that, I didn't and still made a fortune.
Although I suppose if you're wasting lots of money on ammo it might be different, I don't use ammo really.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
So, ehm... Heh... I basically knocked out ALL the police officers inside the police station... And erm, stacked them all on the central desk in that cubical area...
<!--quoteo(post=1872359:date=Aug 31 2011, 01:37 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 31 2011, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, ehm... Heh... I basically knocked out ALL the police officers inside the police station... And erm, stacked them all on the central desk in that cubical area...
Do they ever wake up again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1872359:date=Aug 31 2011, 01:37 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 31 2011, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, ehm... Heh... I basically knocked out ALL the police officers inside the police station... And erm, stacked them all on the central desk in that cubical area...
Do they ever wake up again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, anyone you knock out will stay that way until woken up by a third party.
<!--quoteo(post=1872460:date=Sep 1 2011, 08:30 AM:name=[WHO]Them)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([WHO]Them @ Sep 1 2011, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Sadly, anyone you knock out will stay that way until woken up by a third party.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If there's anything I've learned from Commandos 2, somehow someone always finds the body hideout at the very worst moment, frees or wakes up everybody and drives the whole area into total chaos.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1872460:date=Sep 1 2011, 08:30 AM:name=[WHO]Them)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([WHO]Them @ Sep 1 2011, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Sadly, anyone you knock out will stay that way until woken up by a third party.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, maybe I can get one of the ######s from the jailcell to do this... Oh no, I don't have a key... So apparently the police force inside the thing are asleep forever... Remind me of some fairy tail...
Also this is how I mostly play Deus Ex: HR... Mostly...
<!--quoteo(post=1872541:date=Sep 1 2011, 11:40 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Sep 1 2011, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, maybe I can get one of the ######s from the jailcell to do this... Oh no, I don't have a key... So apparently the police force inside the thing are asleep forever... Remind me of some fairy tail...
Also this is how I mostly play Deus Ex: HR... Mostly...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1872594:date=Sep 1 2011, 09:25 PM:name=Corporal_Fortier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corporal_Fortier @ Sep 1 2011, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Kouji, I wasn't sure about buying this game, but that sold it to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In that case I'll send a commissions bill to Squaresoft :P
[edit] got another short video in the oven, I'll post it in this post...
<div align='center'><strike>Can you guess what's it about from the thumbnail?</strike> <- at least edit it correctly then Scythe :D
Random link: <a href="http://it-he.org/deus.htm" target="_blank">http://it-he.org/deus.htm</a> . Thinking about Deus Ex always makes me go back and re-read that, which I enjoyed more than playing the actual game.
<!--quoteo(post=1872359:date=Aug 31 2011, 03:37 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 31 2011, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, ehm... Heh... I basically knocked out ALL the police officers inside the police station... And erm, stacked them all on the central desk in that cubical area...
Do they ever wake up again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS.
I did exactly the same thing by entering through the fire escape to the rear of the building and sneaked my ninja ass around knocking out every one (including the people in the waiting room which i didn't realize was the waiting room at the time) without being detected which took over an hour until I made it into the morgue and discovered there was a sewer access route that would only require hacking one door to gain entry...
Also I watched my brother playing the same section afterward and he just walked in the front door of the police station and had a nice emotional chat with the desk clerk who let him walk straight into the morgue unopposed...
Well so far I haven't killed a single person (minus bosses which you have to kill) so I can't imagine its impossible although theres some sort of glitch that causes some enemies to die when you tranq/stun them even though you get the exp for a non lethal take-down.
Also I love the Icarus augmentation its awesome and aside from looking bad-ass it can knock out enemies too !
I do like that if you buy the explosive rounds upgrade for the revolver, you can use it to open doors.
Incredibly useless for combat as it aggros everyone in five miles, but it only takes up as much room as the pistol, ammo is pretty plentiful, and it beats having to pay for level 5 hacking.
<!--quoteo(post=1872608:date=Sep 2 2011, 12:21 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Sep 2 2011, 12:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Random link: <a href="http://it-he.org/deus.htm" target="_blank">http://it-he.org/deus.htm</a> . Thinking about Deus Ex always makes me go back and re-read that, which I enjoyed more than playing the actual game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh.
There is also a page exploring Deus Ex' literacy references, philosophy and such. It was seriously a long document.
Comments
My copy of the game is taunting me as well.
The worst offender to me would be the way XP is doled out - they wanted to reward you with XP for sneaking through so you weren't getting punished for not attacking hostiles, but honestly all this means is that you should find every vent and go through it anyway just for the XP. Silent takedowns give you 50 XP so sneaking through without attacking anyone loses in favor of taking down every guard you come across, and the significant cash and XP rewards from hacking means even if you know the code, you should just hack it anyway. Kinda ridiculous...
The fact that I can steal from everyone and everything in the game is also kind of immersion killing. I used my CASIE implant to talk my way into the police station, and proceeded to walk right into some guy's office while he was in there, steal his gun, rifle through his desk, and steal 150 credits off his bookshelf and then walk out. All he did was want to talk to me about Robocop.
I find myself too often intentionally shooting guards up just to break myself away from sneaking everywhere - because as mentioned, sneaking is so easy and the ghost / smooth operator rewards are so large it's almost like you're punished for not doing so. I'll also point out that I think these two rewards are there to offset the XP you get for killing everyone - but they don't - you're better off doing silent takedowns on every guard in the level for 50 XP each and then getting both rewards anyway. Combine it with master hacking (possible right after the first mission - you should end with 2 or 3 points from leveling up, 1 you find, and buy 2 at LIMB) and you'll be an XP-grinding machine.
Another note, they really needed to tone down the animations when people are talking. Everyone shakes and waves their arms around like I'm talking to Michael J. Fox in every conversation. Yeah, people don't wave their arms around wildly and nod and gyrate their whole body in normal conversation. I know they wanted to show off if people were comfortable or getting antsy with my conversation choices, but this is kind of ridiculous.
On the plus side, the CASIE minigame is the conversation minigame to end all conversation minigames. It's intuitive, it's fun, and actually makes sense. The hacking minigame is excellent as well, but they really needed to get rid of all the rewards for hacking - hacking should be its own reward - it means you took the easy way out, after all.
<b>If</b> we get mod tools and <b>if</b> they're robust the game can be made a lot better pretty quickly - change the ghost bonus to only reward you if you don't even touch the guards, remove hacking rewards, adjust the XP so you're not punished for killing guards (seriously, fundamentally there's no difference between shooting them with a bullet vs. a tranq dart - they both collapse on the spot - it's really just you being punished for having a different gun that shoots people in the head)...
...actually I think it would have been great if knocked-out guards would wake up after a while - those who were taken down would wake up faster than those hit with the stun gun, and those tranqued would be out for a while - so this way a higher-rewarding XP run using non-lethal and stealthy approach would require you to move fast since the guards won't stay down. The amount of clutter available in the levels and the general sparsity of enemies means it's super-easy to hide bodies as well, so much so that I only just now learned that they will wake up stunned guards. That isn't to say anything for the enemy AI - if they hear a gunshot they'll go to the exact point that the noise originated from, and that's it - I thought they were going to look around a bit but no, they just stand there while you hide behind a corner four feet away until they get bored.
Ultimately I can't help but feel that this is a good game that never really goes 'all the way'. Like every aspect was only developed to 80% of its potential. I think they needed more imagination...
Stealth gets grindy in the end, perhaps I should switch to a "shoot everyone" approach for the fun of it.
Anyway, I saw some guys and thought I'd test the AI. As I usually do in game, harrasing the AI :P They saw me and started shooting, I popped back into cover and moved about 2 meters and they said they lost me...
I was in a frigging corner with no possible way to getting out of there without them seeing me. HOW THE HELL DO YOU LOSE ME WHEN I GO FROM BOX A COVER TO BOX B COVER A FEW METERS FROM BOX A!!!
Download this: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu</a>
Rename C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\deus ex - human revolution\patch0.000 to patch0.000_ or something.
Copy the downloaded patch0.000 over.
Source: <a href="http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/944090-deus-ex-human-revolution/60137370?page=2" target="_blank">http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/944090-deus...60137370?page=2</a>
Download this: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?9w9qr7um9zzodtu</a>
Rename C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\deus ex - human revolution\patch0.000 to patch0.000_ or something.
Copy the downloaded patch0.000 over.
Source: <a href="http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/944090-deus-ex-human-revolution/60137370?page=2" target="_blank">http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/944090-deus...60137370?page=2</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love this, but it wouldn't even be a problem if they allowed you to skip after forcing the very first time you launch the game. Now we just need a mousefix of some sort.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAS5EFUucWc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAS5EFUucWc</a>
Gotta hope I meet him later in the game. First playthru will be mostly gun blazing. Next playthru is gonna be all stealth. On the hardest it is a good challenge, like realism on Deus Ex 1. 2-3 shots is all I need to die.
You don't even have to do that, I didn't and still made a fortune.
Although I suppose if you're wasting lots of money on ammo it might be different, I don't use ammo really.
Do they ever wake up again?
Do they ever wake up again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
win
Do they ever wake up again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sadly, anyone you knock out will stay that way until woken up by a third party.
Sadly, anyone you knock out will stay that way until woken up by a third party.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there's anything I've learned from Commandos 2, somehow someone always finds the body hideout at the very worst moment, frees or wakes up everybody and drives the whole area into total chaos.
Sadly, anyone you knock out will stay that way until woken up by a third party.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, maybe I can get one of the ######s from the jailcell to do this... Oh no, I don't have a key... So apparently the police force inside the thing are asleep forever... Remind me of some fairy tail...
Also this is how I mostly play Deus Ex: HR... Mostly...
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXfFmm4XmTE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXfFmm4XmTE</a></div>
Also this is how I mostly play Deus Ex: HR... Mostly...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gonna need some more of those.
In that case I'll send a commissions bill to Squaresoft :P
[edit]
got another short video in the oven, I'll post it in this post...
<div align='center'><strike>Can you guess what's it about from the thumbnail?</strike> <- at least edit it correctly then Scythe :D
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BXS95eSH_k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BXS95eSH_k</a></div>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUoftJp6-bE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUoftJp6-bE</a>
Do they ever wake up again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS.
I did exactly the same thing by entering through the fire escape to the rear of the building and sneaked my ninja ass around knocking out every one (including the people in the waiting room which i didn't realize was the waiting room at the time) without being detected which took over an hour until I made it into the morgue and discovered there was a sewer access route that would only require hacking one door to gain entry...
Also I watched my brother playing the same section afterward and he just walked in the front door of the police station and had a nice emotional chat with the desk clerk who let him walk straight into the morgue unopposed...
Still I <3 this game right now.
Darn, gonna have to restart...
oooor I can continue my awesome no-kill run.
Also I love the Icarus augmentation its awesome and aside from looking bad-ass it can knock out enemies too !
Incredibly useless for combat as it aggros everyone in five miles, but it only takes up as much room as the pistol, ammo is pretty plentiful, and it beats having to pay for level 5 hacking.
Heh.
There is also a page exploring Deus Ex' literacy references, philosophy and such. It was seriously a long document.