He's less like a piggy and more like badger imo (look at those muscles under the forelegs)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Question : have you solved the alien vs ladder problem?
I know lerks fly, skulks climb walls, fades blink up... What about gorges and oni? =)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are NO ladders in NS 2. (@NS2 twitter)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->awsome, sounds like the gorge will be the equivalent to the engineer in TF2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
let me point you to the last paragraph of the post:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're hoping that these abilities will make the Gorge a fun class that straddles the line between attacker and defender and gives him lots to do near combat and in alien bases. He'll never be much of an attacker, but this butterball <b><u>is the team medic and engineer </b></u>and thus, deserves to be loved (by anything with slime on it at least).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
------------------------------------
my take on the spit obscuring screen 'feature', is that it does similar to the bile attack in L4D, but to a lesser degree (far lighter opacity), but only occurs if the marine is hit in the head (from any angle/side (front, top, left, etc)) and in the (front) chest. Hit the 'rine anywhere else, only slows them down.
------------------------------------
my guess is that the MC and SC chambers are dropped by the Alien Comm (aka the "AC"), after all they will be providing support map wide to aliens, this only seems logical.
If y'all do go for a slide ability, I think you'll need some chest area armor, that sort of decreases as it goes down the gorges belly. If you've ever got a piece of foam board, 10L of detergent and a 30m sheet of plastic then you'd know you need that bit of foam to help you slide along or protect you from rocks, and other jagged bits. <a href="http://tarrytownyouth.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/slip-n-slide.jpg" target="_blank">http://tarrytownyouth.files.wordpress.com/...lip-n-slide.jpg</a>
Tekkopen's posts, while entitled to his opinion, less spam pls.
Wow, I love the consistent look between the aliens, yet they are all original in the own right.. Cory, you have seriously done an awesome job in directing this art!
<!--quoteo(post=1724182:date=Aug 21 2009, 11:43 AM:name=linfosoma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (linfosoma @ Aug 21 2009, 11:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The gorge is so cute...I want one as a pet!!
Also, if the final game really does have those graphics with such low requirements then Im getting you guys a Nobel prize :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The engine is super scalable which is the reason for such low requirements. The keywords there being "requirements", if you have the lowest end system possible playing NS2 then your video quality will not be the same as these reveal videos, but the game will still run. It would be logical to assume the renders and reveal videos are being produced at the highest quality the engine can produce which will obviously not be the case on a PC that just scrapes in the lowest possible requirements.
Of course I am just speculating, but it's logical that such is true.
Really into the overall colour scheme and look of the aliens, they are gelling together really well. So glad gorges still drop tactical chambers, and now it looks like some really cool animation for dropping a chamber rather then a 'poof'. Also I do love playing the support role in FPSers from time to time and seems like the gorge role will fit this very nicely.
I really like the new model (head, feet, tails). EXCEPT he seems a little bit too fat. I can picture him getting stuck on vent with belly and two back feet wiggling outside... where's the Taser when you need it? *ZAP*
+1 for Slide! YES! Go Skorpio!
My gut says -1 for spit marine vision an slowdown effects. Sounds nice from the Gorge point of view extra help running away. But potentially super annoying for Marines (especially if you combine Gorge spit with Skulk bites). So that a +1 for teamplay... I'm torn here. Will wait for alpha play before final judgment.
YAY! THE GORGE LOOKS SICKK!! litrally...he needs a diet lol jkz. gone are the days of spamming lerk gas or acid rockets since the gorge cant built movement chambers to replenish energy anymore.
(slightly off topic) I'd like to see offense/defense chambers attach onto each other and add "modules" to a single plant rather than dropping a new chamber every time. That way you could set a minimum radius between plants and prevent blocking with chambers
like him but the nose is a bit to weird. But realy, he need bigger eyes: Default: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Gorge_Render_01_800x597.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbna..._01_800x597.jpg</a>
Bigger eyes: <a href="http://i31.tinypic.com/15wjygk.jpg" target="_blank">http://i31.tinypic.com/15wjygk.jpg</a> And i guess you read the "guide of cuteness"? Why every alien looks like a fade baby? ^^
Adding the damage absorb to replenish energy would create a lot of issues with balance... a couple gorges could essentially jump into a base with turrets and damagesoak themselves into perma invulnerability. The initial idea to allow energy decay instead of health in 'turtle' mode is probably your safest bet - I'd also add a short cooldown to the ability that starts as soon as the gorge cancels the ability or his energy runs out, just to avoid abuse of the mechanic.
I highly anticipate more starcon 2 references and gorge slide maps.
<!--quoteo(post=1724136:date=Aug 21 2009, 02:51 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 21 2009, 02:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The tentacle "tails" are a bi-product of the infestation which has taken over the alien creatures. The infestation itself has tentacles, and those grow under the skin of an infested creature and poke out through the hide in various spots.
We do have ragdoll death. As someone pointed out, they can be pretty bland looking, so, in some cases we use an actual animation, such as for the gorge, then as soon as the animation ends (which is right where the video ends) the ragdoll will take over. Some of the aliens are going to use mostly ragdoll, some might be half and half, and some might be mostly animation with the ragdoll at the end. We are going to tweak it for what gives us the best look.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! Nice that you confirmed the ragdoll. Now I got my hopes up again. =)
I don't think there's much point in suggesting changes to an already built-rendered-rigged model. Main reason because it'll cost money to have art assets modified. (<i>I believe they have 3rd party people rigging and modeling for them?</i>)
Either way, I like it and when you're running around I think the LAST thing you will notice is the size of the eyes on a character.
<!--quoteo(post=1724147:date=Aug 21 2009, 03:12 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ Aug 21 2009, 03:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love the new look (Skulk might still be my favorite though) but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take out the part of spit that messes up the marine. It's never, ever fun to be disabled in a game and the last thing I want is a Gorge turning my vision green by spitting on my kneecap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I mention earlier, everyone should wait with the problem list untill we actually get to try the game out.
<!--quoteo(post=1724210:date=Aug 21 2009, 12:04 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Aug 21 2009, 12:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding the damage absorb to replenish energy would create a lot of issues with balance... a couple gorges could essentially jump into a base with turrets and damagesoak themselves into perma invulnerability. The initial idea to allow energy decay instead of health in 'turtle' mode is probably your safest bet - I'd also add a short cooldown to the ability that starts as soon as the gorge cancels the ability or his energy runs out, just to avoid abuse of the mechanic.
I highly anticipate more starcon 2 references and gorge slide maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh.. what's the problem if they damagesoak themselves permanently? As soon as they want to do anything but cower, they'll have to come out of the damage soak, and as soon as that happens, they're screwed. The only thing it's good for is delaying so that hopefully somebody else will come by and save the little chubby. That said, as pointed out in the Yomi Levels article, you should probably have counters to counters. I had suggested the tazer would be a good way of countering the gorge gaining energy from absorbing bullets, but now it sounds like marines won't be having a tazer after all.
<!--quoteo(post=1724169:date=Aug 21 2009, 03:56 AM:name=Stakhanov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stakhanov @ Aug 21 2009, 03:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724169"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mission accomplished , theme wise. It does look somewhat repulsive (unlike the current gorge which is borderline cute) but very much helpless in its cowering animation. Ruthless marines will have to let guns loose on the poor gorge to overcome that defense.
I am puzzled by its new role however , a gorge that couldn't drop resource or upgrade chambers or hives would be rather limited. Field medic isn't a very critical role for aliens that can regenerate on their own or quickly go back to the hive.
This is really high speed devblogging , hopefully means the game is being finished or you'd have nothing to reveal for the next few months :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What they are revealing now is contect they have finish long time ago.
So I'm wondering, is there more to the Gorge than has been revealed?
-Spit: now has an over-time component and snare. -Spit alt-fire: the new bile bomb? -Heal Spray: Heal spray, what else? -Snuggleball: Overwhelm marines with cuteness and hope for mercy. -Building: only DC's and OC's.
So considering you're saying that it has an overabundance of abilities, either the first three are more important in game, in compensation for the loss of the other structures, or you have a surprise for us?
<!--quoteo(post=1724224:date=Aug 21 2009, 07:32 AM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 21 2009, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I'm wondering, is there more to the Gorge than has been revealed?
-Spit: now has an over-time component and snare. -Spit alt-fire: the new bile bomb? -Heal Spray: Heal spray, what else? -Snuggleball: Overwhelm marines with cuteness and hope for mercy. -Building: only DC's and OC's.
So considering you're saying that it has an overabundance of abilities, either the first three are more important in game, in compensation for the loss of the other structures, or you have a surprise for us?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps at the end of the death animation the light in the gorge's belly should dim and go out.
On the topic of death animations, I picture in my head an onos charging a squad and falling dead at the last moment and after it hits the ground it lets out a final snort through it's nostrils or something. I think it should happen randomly though, as cookie cutter deaths decrease immersion.
<!--quoteo(post=1724210:date=Aug 20 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Aug 20 2009, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding the damage absorb to replenish energy would create a lot of issues with balance... a couple gorges could essentially jump into a base with turrets and damagesoak themselves into perma invulnerability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's only true if the soak gives 100% reduction, which would be wierd given the size of the "fins" on their back. It should be 50% or lower protection. And when they're "soaking" I doubt they could heal themselves effectively.
Making aliens go directly to ragdoll on death have a big problem: Marines needs some visual feedback on when the alien dies - otherwise they can't tell if the alien is still alive when it moves. For example a skulk wallwalking and is shot and falls down towards the marine, they don't look dead as they still move with great speed.
I would suggest a cloud of green bacteria to spew out of the aliens mouth upon death. That would also add to the idea that aliens are hive-minded and that the semi-mind of that alien exits the creature in the form of bacteria - only to be reincarnated in another creatures body. If would also be a pleasant satisfactory visual event to the marine. The more death-clouds the better.
In response to the person who said that a damage soaking gorge could go into a room of turrets and draw fire being a problem, I'd like to say that that seems like a perfectly valid strategy to me. If anything that kind of alien behavior should be encouraged as it creates team work.
Yay, Gorgie Gorgie Gorgie! Whoooo sa cute ittle gorge?!
I think bellyslide is just too damn fun not to include in some form!
Whilst having the damage soak create energy is interesting I don't think it's the right way to go, simple invunerability (/ extreme dmg reduction) with decaying energy seems the most sensible implimentation to me.
Is secondary spit, essentially bile bomb then? Any chance we could have it reduce armour on players (especially now there's one less heavy counter without devour)?
<!--quoteo(post=1724232:date=Aug 21 2009, 07:55 AM:name=Andos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andos @ Aug 21 2009, 07:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724232"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Making aliens go directly to ragdoll on death have a big problem: Marines needs some visual feedback on when the alien dies - otherwise they can't tell if the alien is still alive when it moves. For example a skulk wallwalking and is shot and falls down towards the marine, they don't look dead as they still move with great speed.
I would suggest a cloud of green bacteria to spew out of the aliens mouth upon death. That would also add to the idea that aliens are hive-minded and that the semi-mind of that alien exits the creature in the form of bacteria - only to be reincarnated in another creatures body. If would also be a pleasant satisfactory visual event to the marine. The more death-clouds the better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice idea, I like it.
Maybe the cloud comes in smal amount from the body of the Alien.
<!--quoteo(post=1724136:date=Aug 21 2009, 11:51 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 21 2009, 11:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We do have ragdoll death. As someone pointed out, they can be pretty bland looking, so, in some cases we use an actual animation, such as for the gorge, then as soon as the animation ends (which is right where the video ends) the ragdoll will take over. Some of the aliens are going to use mostly ragdoll, some might be half and half, and some might be mostly animation with the ragdoll at the end. We are going to tweak it for what gives us the best look.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hurrah!
I agree that ragdolls aren't the bees knees of graphical fidelity, but even a silly, springy, weightless unrealistic ragdoll is better than a canned death animation carrying a model into a wall.
With the right limb weights and friction/springs on the joints, ragdolls can look mighty nice in almost every situation.
Comments
He's less like a piggy and more like badger imo (look at those muscles under the forelegs)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Question : have you solved the alien vs ladder problem?
I know lerks fly, skulks climb walls, fades blink up...
What about gorges and oni? =)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are NO ladders in NS 2. (@NS2 twitter)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->awsome, sounds like the gorge will be the equivalent to the engineer in TF2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
let me point you to the last paragraph of the post:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're hoping that these abilities will make the Gorge a fun class that straddles the line between attacker and defender and gives him lots to do near combat and in alien bases. He'll never be much of an attacker, but this butterball <b><u>is the team medic and engineer </b></u>and thus, deserves to be loved (by anything with slime on it at least).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
------------------------------------
my take on the spit obscuring screen 'feature', is that it does similar to the bile attack in L4D, but to a lesser degree (far lighter opacity), but only occurs if the marine is hit in the head (from any angle/side (front, top, left, etc)) and in the (front) chest. Hit the 'rine anywhere else, only slows them down.
------------------------------------
my guess is that the MC and SC chambers are dropped by the Alien Comm (aka the "AC"), after all they will be providing support map wide to aliens, this only seems logical.
If y'all do go for a slide ability, I think you'll need some chest area armor, that sort of decreases as it goes down the gorges belly. If you've ever got a piece of foam board, 10L of detergent and a 30m sheet of plastic then you'd know you need that bit of foam to help you slide along or protect you from rocks, and other jagged bits.
<a href="http://tarrytownyouth.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/slip-n-slide.jpg" target="_blank">http://tarrytownyouth.files.wordpress.com/...lip-n-slide.jpg</a>
Tekkopen's posts, while entitled to his opinion, less spam pls.
Also, if the final game really does have those graphics with such low requirements then Im getting you guys a Nobel prize :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The engine is super scalable which is the reason for such low requirements. The keywords there being "requirements", if you have the lowest end system possible playing NS2 then your video quality will not be the same as these reveal videos, but the game will still run. It would be logical to assume the renders and reveal videos are being produced at the highest quality the engine can produce which will obviously not be the case on a PC that just scrapes in the lowest possible requirements.
Of course I am just speculating, but it's logical that such is true.
+1 for Slide! YES! Go Skorpio!
My gut says -1 for spit marine vision an slowdown effects. Sounds nice from the Gorge point of view extra help running away. But potentially super annoying for Marines (especially if you combine Gorge spit with Skulk bites). So that a +1 for teamplay... I'm torn here. Will wait for alpha play before final judgment.
EDIT:cut out the fat of the post
I'd like to see offense/defense chambers attach onto each other and add "modules" to a single plant rather than dropping a new chamber every time. That way you could set a minimum radius between plants and prevent blocking with chambers
But realy, he need bigger eyes:
Default:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Gorge_Render_01_800x597.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbna..._01_800x597.jpg</a>
Bigger eyes:
<a href="http://i31.tinypic.com/15wjygk.jpg" target="_blank">http://i31.tinypic.com/15wjygk.jpg</a>
And i guess you read the "guide of cuteness"?
Why every alien looks like a fade baby? ^^
I highly anticipate more starcon 2 references and gorge slide maps.
We do have ragdoll death. As someone pointed out, they can be pretty bland looking, so, in some cases we use an actual animation, such as for the gorge, then as soon as the animation ends (which is right where the video ends) the ragdoll will take over. Some of the aliens are going to use mostly ragdoll, some might be half and half, and some might be mostly animation with the ragdoll at the end. We are going to tweak it for what gives us the best look.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! Nice that you confirmed the ragdoll. Now I got my hopes up again. =)
Either way, I like it and when you're running around I think the LAST thing you will notice is the size of the eyes on a character.
As I mention earlier, everyone should wait with the problem list untill we actually get to try the game out.
I highly anticipate more starcon 2 references and gorge slide maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh.. what's the problem if they damagesoak themselves permanently? As soon as they want to do anything but cower, they'll have to come out of the damage soak, and as soon as that happens, they're screwed. The only thing it's good for is delaying so that hopefully somebody else will come by and save the little chubby. That said, as pointed out in the Yomi Levels article, you should probably have counters to counters. I had suggested the tazer would be a good way of countering the gorge gaining energy from absorbing bullets, but now it sounds like marines won't be having a tazer after all.
No, really, the gorge looks way awesome.
I am puzzled by its new role however , a gorge that couldn't drop resource or upgrade chambers or hives would be rather limited. Field medic isn't a very critical role for aliens that can regenerate on their own or quickly go back to the hive.
This is really high speed devblogging , hopefully means the game is being finished or you'd have nothing to reveal for the next few months :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What they are revealing now is contect they have finish long time ago.
-Spit: now has an over-time component and snare.
-Spit alt-fire: the new bile bomb?
-Heal Spray: Heal spray, what else?
-Snuggleball: Overwhelm marines with cuteness and hope for mercy.
-Building: only DC's and OC's.
So considering you're saying that it has an overabundance of abilities, either the first three are more important in game, in compensation for the loss of the other structures, or you have a surprise for us?
-Spit: now has an over-time component and snare.
-Spit alt-fire: the new bile bomb?
-Heal Spray: Heal spray, what else?
-Snuggleball: Overwhelm marines with cuteness and hope for mercy.
-Building: only DC's and OC's.
So considering you're saying that it has an overabundance of abilities, either the first three are more important in game, in compensation for the loss of the other structures, or you have a surprise for us?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess this will be answered in Alpha/Beta.
and yeah I think they used the word "overabundance" to imply that hes fat.
On the topic of death animations, I picture in my head an onos charging a squad and falling dead at the last moment and after it hits the ground it lets out a final snort through it's nostrils or something. I think it should happen randomly though, as cookie cutter deaths decrease immersion.
Again, loving the alien team.
and yeah I think they used the word "overabundance" to imply that hes fat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I allready have been sleeping, and woke up. :D
(3 hour and 40 min)
That's only true if the soak gives 100% reduction, which would be wierd given the size of the "fins" on their back. It should be 50% or lower protection. And when they're "soaking" I doubt they could heal themselves effectively.
Marines needs some visual feedback on when the alien dies - otherwise they can't tell if the alien is still alive when it moves.
For example a skulk wallwalking and is shot and falls down towards the marine, they don't look dead as they still move with great speed.
I would suggest a cloud of green bacteria to spew out of the aliens mouth upon death. That would also add to the idea that aliens are hive-minded and that the semi-mind of that alien exits the creature in the form of bacteria - only to be reincarnated in another creatures body. If would also be a pleasant satisfactory visual event to the marine. The more death-clouds the better.
I think bellyslide is just too damn fun not to include in some form!
Whilst having the damage soak create energy is interesting I don't think it's the right way to go, simple invunerability (/ extreme dmg reduction) with decaying energy seems the most sensible implimentation to me.
Is secondary spit, essentially bile bomb then? Any chance we could have it reduce armour on players (especially now there's one less heavy counter without devour)?
Marines needs some visual feedback on when the alien dies - otherwise they can't tell if the alien is still alive when it moves.
For example a skulk wallwalking and is shot and falls down towards the marine, they don't look dead as they still move with great speed.
I would suggest a cloud of green bacteria to spew out of the aliens mouth upon death. That would also add to the idea that aliens are hive-minded and that the semi-mind of that alien exits the creature in the form of bacteria - only to be reincarnated in another creatures body. If would also be a pleasant satisfactory visual event to the marine. The more death-clouds the better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice idea, I like it.
Maybe the cloud comes in smal amount from the body of the Alien.
Hurrah!
I agree that ragdolls aren't the bees knees of graphical fidelity, but even a silly, springy, weightless unrealistic ragdoll is better than a canned death animation carrying a model into a wall.
With the right limb weights and friction/springs on the joints, ragdolls can look mighty nice in almost every situation.
--Scythe--