A Win for Gamplay and Immersion Factor
Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot
Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58116Members
Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58116Members
<div class="IPBDescription">No more bunny-hopping marines \o/</div><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We haven't decided exactly what's happening here but we can all agree on a few things: Skulks should have skill-based movement and we don't want marines jumping around like crazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you so very much I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm so happy I'm tearing up because from what I recall at least 1/3 of my time spent on these forums, back in the day, was arguing about Marine bunny hopping with clanners.
Thank you so very much I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm so happy I'm tearing up because from what I recall at least 1/3 of my time spent on these forums, back in the day, was arguing about Marine bunny hopping with clanners.
Comments
So it's not really a change, it has been that way for ages.
*crosses fingers*
Charlie revealed something very interesting in one of the twitters about coding the movement in the game engine and how it produces effects that allows for those things to be possible.
I wonder if that has to do with Maths or maybe the current technology of game engines or physics model, I'd like to hear more about that sounds interesting.
As you surely know how it works you should be able to figure out what the calculations in question are.
I really dont wanna walk through the hall rooms just pressing w and from time to time shift to sprint.
The movement marines had in ns1 made every route through the map unique. Even after running rine start -> topo (ns_veil) tons of times its not the same thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1717955:date=Jul 18 2009, 04:32 PM:name=Eddie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eddie @ Jul 18 2009, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this will include strafe jumps (where a rine could jump backwards/foreward faster then a skulk could run), double jumps, and inclined bhoping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And whats so bad about that? You couldnt shoot while doing it and the skulk is faster if he bhops. This is pretty balanced and adds a few tricks to lern if u want to master the game.
I really dont wanna walk through the hall rooms just pressing w and from time to time shift to sprint.
The movement marines had in ns1 made every route through the map unique. Even after running rine start -> topo (ns_veil) tons of times its not the same thing.
And whats so bad about that? You couldnt shoot while doing it and the skulk is faster if he bhops. This is pretty balanced and adds a few tricks to lern if u want to master the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For once, ladies and gentlemen, I agree with a kraut.
UWE keep talking about a replacement bhop skill with as much depth and an easier learning curve. Sounds like a holy grail, fingers crossed!
I don't want ns2 so be perfectly clean hallways like we're fighting on the enterprise.
Maybe marines can have the ability to sprint and tumble and dive and rolls and leaning around corners and just plain pointing your gun around a corner and shooting using the guns camera sight lol
Well, in reality jumping around like crazy probably isn't the best idea, since you can't change directions mid-air.
~~Sickle~~
BunnyHopping is not strafejumping alone. It's a glitch used to bypass the speedlimit the character has to gain more momentum, not only evation. At least *I* think that's the point here.
Well, maybe it will discourage marines from jumping up and down like super mario on crack, but as I wrote, I doubt that's their goal.
Games where you can't jump do not feel immersive to the endusers. Can make the game feel even more frustrating.
Games where you can't jump do not feel immersive to the endusers. Can make the game feel even more frustrating.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"not jumping around like crazy" != "can't jump"
And as to your second statment, check out <a href="https://www.digipen.edu/fileadmin/website_data/gallery/game_websites/NarbacularDrop/" target="_blank">Narbacular Drop</a>
1. Meatshields FTW.
2. If everyone went their own way as opposed to single file, only one person would get anywhere fast (assuming they all have a chance).
3. If NS2 will have wider corridors by simply de-clustering the walls and sticking out doorways etc. in corridors go in 2 by 2 formation. Works in L4D, if you're actually trying to play the game for an experience as opposed to solo gauntlet race competition (reason why I quit Versus, it's insane when one person can become untouchable, let alone all four of them).
4. Bhop won't change the fact everyone will be walking down corridors single file like static clone lemmings. That would be down to weapons equipped, models, animation quality, personalities etc. Only thing Bhop will change is how fast they move.
You will still be able to jump to the side to avoid a skulk, jump up and onto stuff.
The marines strength comes from them acting as a unit using thier superiority in range to cover fellow marines while advancing into hostile territory ... not bouncing into a hive area like a pack of hyperactive kindergarten kids on pogosticks.
Its the aliens strength to move better and faster than the enemy that they must use to overcome the marines, ambush and charge is the aliens main tactics.
Theres plenty of twitch based , bounce around FPS games already ... prehaps a game where bouncing around like a loon doesnt give you any tactical advantage is needed, then you wont rush by yourself and prehaps work with teammates...clear the corridors, sweep the corners, check the dark spots and watch the rear.
Least thats my opinion , and experience..when I used to play NS 1 with my little community there was very little to no bouncing about...except last sec jumping to the side to avoid a skulks teeth, and more tactical squad play... you would be amazed how natural it was to run from cover to cover with a teammate all without actually needing to tell each other that you will cover his move, and he must cover your move.
Oh , and no there was no rule saying you couldnt bounce about...it just never seemed to occur for some reason... fun old days.
NS1 was extremely fun and challenging to play, until the pub-nubs voice got heard one too many times, and things started changing. When I started playing NS (in 2002) I had just left playing TFC fanatically and competitively, so of course I knew how to bhop and exploit every little movement skill in the game. It was fun, but yes the marines were pretty overpowered (which you can tell in some of the old videos of clan matches in 1.04).
Flash forward to today, in NS1 you can only strafejump (i won't call it bhop because it's not) up inclines, or when stimpacked. The reason exploits like bhop and sj exist is the nescessity of being faster. How is it fun to plod slowly down a hallway at one set speed awaiting an ambush or just trying to get to your teammates before they're all killed? Not at all. But if I can somehow move faster then I will do that as much as possible to keep me playing the game. The sad thing is, as easy as it is/was to bhop, most players can't grasp it, and cry wolf. It looks ridiculous I agree, but unless I can have some sort of movement options besides +jump and +forward,back,strafe left, strafe right, etc. I'm going to call for bhopping of some sort to be in. And no holding shift and watching a sprint meter refill isn't my idea of a good time either.
<u>Again, I don't understand this speed argument. If you need to bhop because otherwise it is too slow, then maybe marines just need to be faster.</u>
~~Sickle~~
~~Sickle~~<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it is about giving good situational speed bursts while still keeping the game otherwise at very reasonable speeds. You can't aim while using the movement skills, the surroundings can be used creatively, it requires some space and timing to do and you can't regain any lost momentum instantly. All in all it's a lot more interesting, creative and challenging than just pressing forward/strafe to get to high speeds.
I think in NS' case it was also a good way to balance the game as it added more challenge to the skilled players while the game speed at lower skills still stayed at more reasonable level. The problems started kicking in when the skilled players get mixed up with a lot less skilled players. With servers of various skill levels the game would probably have had a lot more positive gain from the system.
<u>I don't think movement really needs to be particularly "interesting, creative, and challenging." However at the moment whenever I try to think of an "advanced sprint" movement for marines I can only think of Mirror's Edge and it'd just be silly to have marines wall running/jumping, vaulting over railings and sliding under pipes.</u>
~~Sickle~~
I consider the Marines in NS the same as the marines in Aliens (2), covering fellow marines and preparing for ambushes, using advance and hold techniques in a deliberate organised manner... not clumping up as a group and reacting only when attacked.
The Kharaas worst enemy is a organised Marine assualt, the Marines worst enemy is a break up of that organisation.
Imo, movement skills like strafe jumping and wall strafing etc, give you a way to by skill and experience including deeper map knowledge increase speed at the cost of safety. If you need to get somewhere quickly, you opt for a faster way of moving which would give you less of a chance to recover in case of an ambush. The beauty of it is that it's not a binary system of sprinting or not (one of the only proposed substitutions), it's a fluid system where you can pick and choose different movement techniques, and the intensity with which to use them, to suit the situation.
Running MS -> double through topo every time you respawn (an example someone already gave) would be a huge breaker of immersion for me if I didn't have an immersive way of traveling faster/shorter/safer.
I don't think you should give this thread the dignity of being called a debate; all it ever was about was poking sticks into a hornets' nest.
And bouncing like a maniac for no visual reason is better, yes sir! o7
I am disappointed that BH has been removed from aliens aswell?. That really would be a knife in the heart for aliens both for skill and fun. The NS1 skulk was basically designed from the ground up to be movement based and the skill curve was long and rewarding.
There really is no good reason to not include it again either.
There really is no good reason to not include it again either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 words:
noob friendly