Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Podcast #26

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  • killkrazykillkrazy Join Date: 2007-09-10 Member: 62238Members Posts: 202
    oooohhhhhhh.....
    Does this mean, the use of "projected screens" is going to be removed? or is that done with LUA?
  • phoenixbbsphoenixbbs Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13379Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester Posts: 437 Advanced user
    edited July 2008
    I like the "Darwin Engine" as the name too - as an aside, i'd also like to add a vote for a linux and / or a Mac executable.

    If you guys haven't yet seen X-plane (http://www.x-plane.com) it might be worth having a chat with Austin Meyer - he does cross-platform executables (Win/Mac/linux).

    Alternatively, Transgaming Inc have cross-platform tools such as Cedega (for linux) and Cider (Mac)

    (had a second thought on the name - "The Constellation Engine")
    My nickname in-game is "phoe", and I'm an NS addict.

    I haven't managed more than two days without NS since 2002.

    My wife tells me I regularly jump in bed as though I've just been ambushed, and swear (or shout out orders) in my sleep :-}
  • PrefixPrefix Éirinn go Brách Join Date: 2006-12-31 Member: 59353Members, Constellation Posts: 455 Advanced user
    Cedega and Cider dont really count, thats like saying having a windows exe running in wine is cross platform.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,688 Fully active user
    Very interesting news. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't skeptical about how well a one man engine is going to be able to meet the needs of a full-blown multiplayer FPS, and I really hope getting the same level of gameplay quality as a proven engine like Source doesn't set you guys back too much. Best of luck with all that. The best name choice is obviously BUE for Big Unannounced Engine tounge.gif

    Speaking of which, are you guys ever going to tell us what Nexus was?
  • cashedcashed Join Date: 2007-10-12 Member: 62621Members Posts: 2
    edited July 2008
    From what Ive seen and learned in school (taking video game design) the Source Engine isnt all that most hype it up to be. For 1 i think the netcode is terrible, and the lighting is crap. (models, brushes) Source's netcode has that odd delay and thats the one thing I felt iffy about when it was going to be made on source. The "I was already around the corner and now im out in the open where i was 2 secs ago" which would be really bad for aliens because they move so fast.
  • mattoXmattoX Join Date: 2007-08-01 Member: 61739Members Posts: 82
    You know the difference between a whole team of coders going to work thinking "damn same old thing today and tomorrow", to one person with great aspirations and dreams is obvious. The one guy with the dreams is doing something he loves and enjoys which makes the possibilities of great things endless.
    With out a doubt i know these guys have great things up their sleeves that we are yet to see. And if your in doubt, have a little faith! I especially love the fact that the boys are so into getting every little detail perfect, i.e the networking code.
    With out a doubt i am so excited to see what max and the team are going to create, it seems like a real high now that they are taking onboard more ambiguous roles and indefinately challenging ones, afterall nothing great comes easy in life.
    Keep the dreams alive guys!

    As for some sensual names...

    -SymbioSEngine

    -symbioSE

    -symbioS

    -UnknownsOrigin

    I apologize in advance if any of these have been said, it is indeed a long post.

    Matt.
    My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my potion forever.
  • skulk_on_a_planeskulk_on_a_plane Join Date: 2008-02-18 Member: 63672Members, Constellation Posts: 3
    Oh dear.

    I have confidence in Max's ability to 'solo' the engine technologically -- but I don't have confidence in how much time this sort of thing can take. I hope you guys have some understanding investors with as much vision as you seem to have.

    And just because I feel I have to say it; linux and mac users are such a small percentage of potential income I imagine it would be very foolish to waste time making sure things play nice everywhere. You could make it a 'to-do' for a later release if you can be bothered with OGL, but I'll admit that I for one am partial to D3D; not that it really matters either way, should be able to swap one in or out -- but that might not be on the cards with such a limited team.

    Good luck, remember there's plenty of help around if you want it *points to forum*
  • naXynaXy Join Date: 2008-07-12 Member: 64618Members Posts: 43
    really big news,made me register on forums out of my laziness nerd-fix.gif

    unknown engine sounds cool as some mentioned before.
    duh duh nuhduh nuh duh nuh
  • ia-spideria-spider Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24379Members, Constellation Posts: 55
    Whoa I like the idea, thanks for the update!
    If you're gonna make the best game.. might as well make it all your own.
    I'd say the kharaa engine
    tsa.gif
  • ljcrabsljcrabs Join Date: 2007-11-15 Member: 62924Members Posts: 75
    I heard somewhere that the best programmers are the ones that work for non-profit organizations, as they only do it because they believe in it, and they are the most passionate for their work. So I'd like to cast a vote in the 'hell yes this is going to be awesome!' category. Max, don't let the negativity get to you, you're the man! And Flayra, invest in a couple extra pencils for Max smile-fix.gif
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members Posts: 3,543 Fully active user
    how about volumentric sounds ? so we don't hear through walls smile-fix.gif

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=104528
    Want to make an NS2 map but short on time? Join the NS2 Community Map Project
    thou shall slide!
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members Posts: 1,281 Advanced user
    edited July 2008
    QUOTE(Max @ Jul 11 2008, 12:05 PM) »
    Thanks to everyone for the encouragement.

    I know some people are wondering how we could possibly build an engine in only a few months. The truth is that we didn't; I've actually been working on the engine in some form since 2005. Originally the engine was just a way for me to try out different ideas (mostly related to 3D graphics) quickly and easily. And if you've been following the blog you've seen it a few times in different forms, including the dynamic infestation prototype video and the map viewer. So we didn't really decide to write a new engine, it's more like we decided we already had an engine, we just needed to add in a few more pieces. Adding in those pieces is what we really started doing 5 months ago.

    So what are those pieces? The big one was networking which we talked about in the podcast a bit. We also added in collision support for character movement, character animation and physics / ragdolls and a sound system. All of the scripting glue code we wrote for Source just came right over. And since all of gameplay code is written in Lua script it was already very independent of the Source engine and we were able to directly use that with our new engine.

    Right now we have every major piece in place in the engine, which is really great for development since it means everyone on the team can be productive without waiting on anything. Those pieces aren't all 100% yet, but I'm going to be continuing to work on that while the rest of the team progresses with the game.

    We've been closed kimono about the engine for a while because things were still quite up in the air, but now that we're through that we hope to be talking about it quite a bit more on this blog.

    I dont hear the podcast because i cant hear the english words, its hard for me, but i read the whole thread.

    Its very sad you use your own engine but its a good thing to.

    BAD:
    Anti-cheat? VAC is maybe a good way, can you use it or make it better?
    security flaws in engine?

    GOOD:
    more liberties?
    and the other good stuff you can put in the engine like euphoria engine?
    bunnyhopping fix? (if yes you all get free beer!! [i guess])
    real 3D commander chair?

    i realy dont know why you will change.
    please use the awesome soundsystem of day of defeat source, if you hear the weapons and stuff far away it sounds thump.

    Engine name?:
    Acronym Engine
    Divus Engine
    Catasta Engine
    Castana Engine
    Pron Engine
    Radix Engine

    Can anybody say me why they change the engine?
    my english isnt the best sad-fix.gif
    Buy NS2 @ Steam![Support the Indie Devs!]
    ( my english isn't the best... )

    ,,NS1 was one of the best mods."
    ,,NS2 is one of the best MP games."

    A NS2 classic mod, will it be a remake?
    New NS2 Maps: Biodome, Ignore: BVKnight, Metal Man
    EVERYONE is a Winner, because you won the race against 400–800 other Sperms :P
  • RadixRadix Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation Posts: 964
    Just give Max a shotgun and he'll carry.
    NS2 Idea Map - Add your next suggestion thread here if you want it to be remembered!

    http://nsdojo.net - Covering a wide array of advanced topics on one of the deepest games ever made.

    "Women aren't intuitive, ... so we would be better off without them surely." --Pheus
  • Mr. EpicMr. Epic Join Date: 2003-08-01 Member: 18660Members, Constellation Posts: 820 Fully active user
    QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jul 13 2008, 01:58 AM) »
    how about volumentric sounds ? so we don't hear through walls smile-fix.gif

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=104528

    that would be rather difficult to implement hah... what one could do is to precompute, like map lighting, areas with certain impulse responses (done by ear, you dont have to compute this stuff... you can eyeball it with your ear hah) and it can be mostly convincing. Of course, areas on top of others will not be fun, but the concept is pretty simple. A big lookup table with coordinate areas could work too...
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members Posts: 3,543 Fully active user
    QUOTE(CyberMantis @ Jul 13 2008, 04:27 PM) »
    that would be rather difficult to implement hah.


    probably, but i bet max could prove us wrong biggrin-fix.gif
    Want to make an NS2 map but short on time? Join the NS2 Community Map Project
    thou shall slide!
  • NovakoalaNovakoala Join Date: 2002-07-17 Member: 962Members, Constellation Posts: 307
    edited July 2008
    The Ariadne Engine
    (after the fictional arm of the galaxy where NS was set)

    Unknown Worlds always seem to be doing the impossible - putting together a modern game engine from the ground up with a relatively tiny team of two (one)? I'm impressed. And cautiously optimistic!

    Does this mean that licensing the Source engine was wasted money, though? Licensing isn't cheap and I know UW's resources are far from limitless.
    -- one of the first thousand --
    -- previously monkey830 --
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members Posts: 1,281 Advanced user
    QUOTE(Novakoala @ Jul 13 2008, 05:46 AM) »
    Does this mean that licensing the Source engine was wasted money, though? Licensing isn't cheap and I know UW's resources are far from limitless.


    i guess they got the money back if they paid, i think valve knows the engine isnt match to ns2
    Buy NS2 @ Steam![Support the Indie Devs!]
    ( my english isn't the best... )

    ,,NS1 was one of the best mods."
    ,,NS2 is one of the best MP games."

    A NS2 classic mod, will it be a remake?
    New NS2 Maps: Biodome, Ignore: BVKnight, Metal Man
    EVERYONE is a Winner, because you won the race against 400–800 other Sperms :P
  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation Posts: 560
    To be honest i doubt they paid anything they probably had some sort of profit share agreement...

    I hope they are still going to use steam to distribute!
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation Posts: 2,064
    +1 for OSX/Linux support.

    It was a long time since I used windows and I'd hate to have to install it again just to play NS.
    LOL BLOG!
    also known as narc
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation Posts: 1,044
    If you want something done right, you've gotta do it yourself!

    Go Max! Go Charlie! You have my fullest confidence.
  • TerraGamerXTerraGamerX Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58900Members Posts: 43
    Yeah, that would certainly make me want to freak out a bit, but I have complete faith in the devs.

    My biggest concern: are you still releasing it through Steam? You have put so much emphasis on selling it in a box, and with this news following... You stated you were preparing to use the Source engine and release it on Steam, but those two points were in the same statement.
    confused-fix.gif

    As for naming the engine, naming it based on its purpose is the first priority. If you're hoping that many others would want to use it ... well think of just how inviting the name "Source" is. The second priority would be linking the name to the company, while trying to be ambiguous. I think the final idea will have to come from within the team, since you know most about the engine.

    Even so, my suggestion:
    Onymous Engine
    This is a somewhat obscure word, which is simply the opposite of "anonymous". So it means it has a name, but that itself would be the name. This can be attached to the "Unknown" concept of the company name. It should be a fairly basic-to-pronounce and attractive name to others who might be interested in the engine (as opposed to a more boring name like "Unknown Engine"). It is somewhat similar to the word "ominous" which holds the spirit of the Natural Selection world (and is associated with power, a powerful engine that is). "Ony" might become an abbreviation for it, which I think is a pretty 'fun' name for it. Simply "On" might have some good potential in making logos for it.

    I hope my analysis assists wink-fix.gif
    image DecoyJoe image
    image
  • eoyeoy Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32860Members Posts: 80
    The 'Ripley Engine'
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members Posts: 423
    edited July 2008
    First post for me... the news was THAT exciting.

    I also thought of Darwin and was hoping no one would beat me to it. If you can legally go with "Darwin Engine" then please do.

    If not I'd like to Suggest:

    Gorge Engine - Can't believe nobody's suggested this one, or did I miss that? To me, it sounds much better than "Onos Engine".

    Genome Engine - I prefer this over Genotype, which has too many syllables.

    And I'd like to support:

    Kharaa engine
    Colbert Engine - I'd love to see NS2 get the Colbert bump. Plus the irony... given his famous line of "God did it".
    Firefly Engine - fav show ever, sci-fi or otherwise.


    Also don't forget to add Wii control support. Thinks of precise Fade-slashing control. wink-fix.gif

    The euphoria engine video looked cooled however that seems to be more of a AI. singleplayer, NPC kind of thing. Only use in multi-player I can think of is when a player get knocked away doesn't die and then gets up (if he dies then plain ragdoll physics will do). That would be awesome though if it could get worked in.

    My biggest suggestion for the engine/game is that physics are worked into the game play in some novel way, and not just eye candy. Things that come to mind... [not to go off topic, I moved the rest of the post to the Suggestions forum and expanded on it]
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=104531
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • acidicXacidicX Join Date: 2004-07-08 Member: 29795Members, Constellation Posts: 35
    edited July 2008
    "Charlie And The Turret Factory"-Engine... Yeah! I lol'd about a minute reading that... biggrin-fix.gif
    +10 for Linux support.. pleaaaseee smile-fix.gif and not Steam-Bundled!

    I can't understand some of the mappers, angry about the change. As far as I understood, the tools are similar to Hammer and fully VALVe-format-compatible.

    I also vote for "The Ariadne Engine", because "Charlie And The Turret Factory" won't win it I think..
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • caboose4lifecaboose4life Join Date: 2007-03-22 Member: 60455Members Posts: 4
    wow thats really impresive, keep up the good work guy biggrin-fix.gif and i wish u guys good luck with that new source engine tounge.gif

    NS2 4EVER!!!! asrifle.gif tiny.gif
  • SkwareSkware Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58125Members Posts: 113
    THE ENGINE OF DOOM
  • INKEDOUTINKEDOUT Join Date: 2007-06-23 Member: 61343Members Posts: 270
    Wow sounds crazy! I think this must have been suggested before, but how can you not call it the Gorge Engine! If you don’t call it that I will cry!

    Gorge Engine FTW! Vote Yes!
    INKEDOUT (Watch this space)
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members Posts: 3,883
    edited July 2008
    I like Evolution, Origin, and possibly Darwin, though less so.
    QUOTE(Karba)
    I've just thought , if there is a UT3 Engine, why not THE NS2 ENGINE , simple and for all the family

    Actually it's the "Unreal Engine 3" that Unreal Tournament 3 is based on.
    But in that vein, why not the "Natural Engine". It's the natural choice. wink-fix.gif

    I noticed the level in the level editor screeny was quite.. plain. Lacked colour, lacked contrast, was too 'flat' and the shapes looked.. simple and blocky. It's one thing to be industrial but...
    Now, I doubt it'll be part of a final product, but it's probably not the best choice for a development screenshot.

    Will work done in Hammer port over to your level editor fine?

    oh and,
    QUOTE(caboose4life @ Jul 14 2008, 04:03 AM) »
    NS2 "in the next year" asrifle.gif tiny.gif

    fixed.
    Suggestions: ! @ # $ %
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    I am pretty confident, that Max will produce a great engine.
    Hell, he did it before for TQ (netcode aside).

    As for the podcast itself: I somehow had the feeling, that you might drop source at some point, since the first DI video was posted. "Morphing" surfaces was not possible in Source, IIRC and more of a doom thingy.

    How much funds does not needing to license source free?
    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • Cyborg16Cyborg16 Join Date: 2006-11-18 Member: 58656Members Posts: 44
    I like Gorge Engine too.

    And another Q about linux support, although maybe you're holding off on answering that?
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