Yay! I'll actually be able to SHOOT an onos this time!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
They'll have to ramp up the HP on each of the lifeforms that need it, though. Like the fade and onos particulary. Other than that, I hope the onos's front shield type thing on its head that has all the horns blocks some what of the bullets. Like it makes damage reduced by 50%, so you have to attack it by a weak side.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 24 2003, 05:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 24 2003, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Yumosis+Oct 24 2003, 05:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yumosis @ Oct 24 2003, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulk Headshot=the win I wouldnt be to afraid, after its balanced it will make ns much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why a headshot?
It's an alien, it could be anywhere.
I'd like it if it was on the underside of the skulk personally.
Fades should be a head hitbox, gorge = stomach, onos = butt (only exposed area), and lerk = wings.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> .....it was a joke, some left over cs code that max and flayra are trying to fix, pretty funny
I always thought that onos could only be hit from the center because of the armor-plate-like thing on their heads, whereas the center has that exposed, unarmored skin.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited October 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--eL DonkeY+Oct 24 2003, 07:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eL DonkeY @ Oct 24 2003, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I always thought that onos could only be hit from the center because of the armor-plate-like thing on their heads, whereas the center has that exposed, unarmored skin. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's not how it works. The Onos can be hit from any direction. It's just that it's actually much smaller than it appears.
Like others have said - aliens will need drastic hp/ap increases. It seems like the whole concept of aiming will be thrown out the window, at least for LMG; it's been that way for HMG and shotty since forever =/
You know,i cant help but think aimbotters wont have an advantage anymore.
Sure there are good players,but we are talking 180 degree turns,killing fades in mid-blink and bringing onos down to 150 hp with level 1/2 lmg in a few seconds.
yeah... I mean it's not like the PTs and Vets would know right smooth? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Current alien lifespans when you don't know how to aim at the hitboxes correctly are long enough for them to wreak serious havoc on any marine base/army.
Current alien lifespans when you aim at the correct areas are short enough to stop them before they can do any real damage.
Where in there will the new hp be balanced? If you balance it so that they always live as long as they used to against people who didn't know how to aim, even people who are very good shots will no longer be able to kill aliens in any respectable amount of time and they will dominate.
On the other hand, the PTs have already seen that if you boost everyones accuracy while leaving the hp alone, the aliens get wiped.
The one thing that starts to mess up balance here is that a lot of the distinction between skilled and unskilled is going away, and it becomes much harder for a skilled marine to be more lethal than an average marine.
I wonder how they got around the HL engine and its hardcoded 4 (basically 3 if you take into account that one needs to be 0 size for coding purposes) hulls problem?
This change just is just beat NS:C for the thing I most look forward too about 2.1. NS:C is still a close second though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think think this will really help new players get good at NS much faster, now that fighting aliens will take more teamwork and less of the random unintuitive skill known as 'knowing the hitboxes'. Of course aliens need to get tougher to compensate, but I'll trust the devs to find the right balance there.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cxwf+Oct 25 2003, 10:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Oct 25 2003, 10:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The one thing that starts to mess up balance here is that a lot of the distinction between skilled and unskilled is going away, and it becomes much harder for a skilled marine to be more lethal than an average marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a good thing. For one it shows that not every advantage based on 'secret knowledge' (like, where the real hitboxes are) can be called 'skill' and it's logically obvious that without a difference in their playing performance neither player can be called 'skilled' or 'unskilled'... But I'm sure you can still make a distinction between players having teamplay-skill and those who have not.
<!--QuoteBegin--Walt+Oct 25 2003, 10:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walt @ Oct 25 2003, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so....what does this mean for NS_Nancy? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it would look good. The problem with nancy was that some places were too small to realistically fit an onos. If anything, the onos just got bigger.
how would this work if u can hit an onos, its like 30 HMG hits to down an onos, with correct hitboxes onos would go down in no time, any news from the testers on this ?
Mythril, there has been a whole bunch of people talking about that change earlier in the topic... That would be the whole idea with reading the whole thread, and not just the first page- to see if someone already asked the question you want to ask.
<!--QuoteBegin--zil+Oct 25 2003, 04:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (zil @ Oct 25 2003, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Does anyone know the technicalities of the fix? ie how the code goes about checking bullet traces now that hull dependancy has been removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There was never a hull dependency; that was a red herring. I wrote my own version of bullet/player intersection code which totally ignored the hulls, but it turned out to have the same problem as the built-in HL code. I don't think it's a good idea to talk about the actual fix until 2.1 is out though.
thanks for fixing it all the same ~huggle~ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Eidolan+Oct 24 2003, 06:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eidolan @ Oct 24 2003, 06:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'v seen people who knew where a ono hit box as and always hit it dead on (VERY good players) and they chould down 3-4 ono per HMG clip(lvl3 with JP to get over the hit box). Thats all i gota say. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Either very good or using a custom model that more closely matches the real hit box. Search for "Fade-nos" in the customization forum for a good one.
I remember a game I was in not too long ago where marines were down to one base and not in a hive. Aliens threw Onos after Onos at us and we just kept killing them. We didn't even need JP, just focus fire and result in dead Onos. Eventually we gained a few RTs back, spread some HA around, and then we won by alien auto-forfeit. The reason we won was because we kept getting hmgs and shotties to replace those few we lost and we used them properly, striking out to pose threats and then retreating before all was lost. We must have taken down their 3rd hive 5 times throughout that game, while fending off Fades, Onos, and some Xenoing Skulks throughout.
And then I go to the forums and read threads about how Onos are so overpowered that they take no skill to use and that any newbie can win the game with one. It's kinda sad.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, the armor absorption value does not change. It remains constant until the armor reaches zero. Heavy armor will absorb 95% of all damage whether you have 2 armor points or 200.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That property is unique to Heavy Armor. Not LA, JP, nor any alien's armor is like that. The less armor you have, the more damage that goes to health. But it's a very slight effect and then you have the big cut-off at 0 armor. That's what really matters.
IT's quite a weird change on paper too, seeming those of us that always aim for the "hitbox area's" are probably going to be the only people that notice a difference, and it's going to be a negative one <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ah well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Max+Oct 25 2003, 02:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Max @ Oct 25 2003, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think it's a good idea to talk about the actual fix until 2.1 is out though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why's that?
Comments
They'll have to ramp up the HP on each of the lifeforms that need it, though. Like the fade and onos particulary. Other than that, I hope the onos's front shield type thing on its head that has all the horns blocks some what of the bullets. Like it makes damage reduced by 50%, so you have to attack it by a weak side.
I wouldnt be to afraid, after its balanced it will make ns much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why a headshot?
It's an alien, it could be anywhere.
I'd like it if it was on the underside of the skulk personally.
Fades should be a head hitbox, gorge = stomach, onos = butt (only exposed area), and lerk = wings.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
.....it was a joke, some left over cs code that max and flayra are trying to fix, pretty funny
That's not how it works. The Onos can be hit from any direction. It's just that it's actually much smaller than it appears.
So I was thinking about bringing back the Onos back to the way it was in 1.04, since now aliens are now like 'wet tissue paper' especially the Onos
And Fades....hmmm....maybe beef it up to 350 HP and leave the same armor value??
But then again Im only suggesting stuff, and of course it gets ignored hehe
But now Im beginning to think about the lerk because its hitboxes are getting fixed....it would become too easy to hit them in mid-flight
Sure there are good players,but we are talking 180 degree turns,killing fades in mid-blink and bringing onos down to 150 hp with level 1/2 lmg in a few seconds.
And by doubt it I mean the hitboxes wont be fixed, may have been made a bit better for standing onos tho.
And yes, armor/HP values are already being tweaked to compensate.
Current alien lifespans when you don't know how to aim at the hitboxes correctly are long enough for them to wreak serious havoc on any marine base/army.
Current alien lifespans when you aim at the correct areas are short enough to stop them before they can do any real damage.
Where in there will the new hp be balanced? If you balance it so that they always live as long as they used to against people who didn't know how to aim, even people who are very good shots will no longer be able to kill aliens in any respectable amount of time and they will dominate.
On the other hand, the PTs have already seen that if you boost everyones accuracy while leaving the hp alone, the aliens get wiped.
The one thing that starts to mess up balance here is that a lot of the distinction between skilled and unskilled is going away, and it becomes much harder for a skilled marine to be more lethal than an average marine.
I think think this will really help new players get good at NS much faster, now that fighting aliens will take more teamwork and less of the random unintuitive skill known as 'knowing the hitboxes'. Of course aliens need to get tougher to compensate, but I'll trust the devs to find the right balance there.
This is a good thing. For one it shows that not every advantage based on 'secret knowledge' (like, where the real hitboxes are) can be called 'skill' and it's logically obvious that without a difference in their playing performance neither player can be called 'skilled' or 'unskilled'...
But I'm sure you can still make a distinction between players having teamplay-skill and those who have not.
I don't think it would look good. The problem with nancy was that some places were too small to realistically fit an onos. If anything, the onos just got bigger.
That would be the whole idea with reading the whole thread, and not just the first page- to see if someone already asked the question you want to ask.
There was never a hull dependency; that was a red herring. I wrote my own version of bullet/player intersection code which totally ignored the hulls, but it turned out to have the same problem as the built-in HL code. I don't think it's a good idea to talk about the actual fix until 2.1 is out though.
Max
~huggle~ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
indeed, and I think fades got an armor boost too
Either very good or using a custom model that more closely matches the real hit box. Search for "Fade-nos" in the customization forum for a good one.
I remember a game I was in not too long ago where marines were down to one base and not in a hive. Aliens threw Onos after Onos at us and we just kept killing them. We didn't even need JP, just focus fire and result in dead Onos. Eventually we gained a few RTs back, spread some HA around, and then we won by alien auto-forfeit. The reason we won was because we kept getting hmgs and shotties to replace those few we lost and we used them properly, striking out to pose threats and then retreating before all was lost. We must have taken down their 3rd hive 5 times throughout that game, while fending off Fades, Onos, and some Xenoing Skulks throughout.
And then I go to the forums and read threads about how Onos are so overpowered that they take no skill to use and that any newbie can win the game with one. It's kinda sad.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, the armor absorption value does not change. It remains constant until the armor reaches zero. Heavy armor will absorb 95% of all damage whether you have 2 armor points or 200.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That property is unique to Heavy Armor. Not LA, JP, nor any alien's armor is like that. The less armor you have, the more damage that goes to health. But it's a very slight effect and then you have the big cut-off at 0 armor. That's what really matters.
Ah well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Lee
Why's that?