Fixed Hitboxes

Frogg2 · October 2003

Yes for the most part the hitboxes are fixed. There are still a few issues to be sorted out yet though.

Onos HP will have to be rebalanced, as now you can practically solo an onos. (as a vanilla marine)

Geminosity · October 2003

waii! so it is a proper fix instead of just crouching and stuff XD

Frogg2 · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 24 2003, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> waii! so it is a proper fix instead of just crouching and stuff XD  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
yes sir

Umbraed_Monkey · October 2003

W00t, praise the Max!!

beer's on me, boys <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

MMZ_Torak · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Oct 24 2003, 11:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> beer's on me, boys <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Best Post Evar!!!!!!

Novis · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frogg2 @ Oct 24 2003, 09:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 24 2003, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> waii! so it is a proper fix instead of just crouching and stuff XD </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
yes sir  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Impressive !
I guess the first thing I'll try is sticking my head through a door and wait for someone to shoot at it...

Btw.: I wonder if maps need to be recompiled again, and if so, which maps we'll lose this time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Shockeh · October 2003

One significant problem with the hitboxes fixed.

Balance will go "Wheeee!" out the window as Oni drop twice as fast as they used to, and Fades become cannon fodder.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Geminosity · October 2003

I don't think it'll have too great an impact on fades though they'll probably go down a bit more often... it's really the onos this'll cause troubles for, like froggy already testified =3

Talesin · October 2003

Actually, it affects both of them quite heavily from what I've seen... perhaps it was just playing against a vet that did it, or some other minor (aka: likely gone by next build so isn't worth mentioning) effects, but Kharaa are like wet tissue paper at the moment. Odd as it might sound, I'm not fully certain that even 1000hp and 500ap on an Onos would bring it to the 2.01 average level of survival.

MMZ_Torak · October 2003

You scare me Talesin. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

SjN · October 2003

Finnaly!!!@! good job Max!

Ots · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eidolan @ Oct 24 2003, 06:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I'v seen people who knew where a ono hit box as and always hit it dead on (VERY good players) and they chould down 3-4 ono per HMG clip.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
When you know where the hitbox is, its easy to damage them. This little fix only makes sure that lesser skiller players wont miss as much as they used to. Not good? I say GOOD and PAINFULL. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

MagiTek · October 2003

The Fade model (and hitbox) is nearly twice the size than its hull size. Hitting them is going be be child's play.

Geminosity · October 2003

owies... ok so the fades need a bit of fixing too then =P

Fades have always been about speed though so giving them more hp feels kinda wrong, but it's not like there's much else that can be done to rebalance them is there? (?) =s

Pepe_Muffassa · October 2003

I can see how this will be a great thing for the game - but a very poor thing for aliens on the whole. Balance would go right out the window - especially for higher life forms. I could see skulks with 100 hp or onos with 1000 without any problems. the onos hit box would be aproximatly 3x as big as it is now - which means that not 1 bullet would ever miss it - ever.

and that's cool, if it is ballanced. I have a feeling that umbra will be getting a huge boost again here soon. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

MagiTek · October 2003

One possibility would be to shrink the models and hitboxes of the aliens to be similar to their hull sizes. While it would probably be a good fix for the Fade, the Onos would look positively tiny compared to what we're used to.

Geminosity · October 2003

I'm all for the onos being a giant armoured tank... maybe they should boost max holdable res to 200, super upgrade the onos to make up for it's newfound size (much better armour absorption, more of it and 1000 hp) and make that the new cost? =3

Lt_Hendrickson · October 2003

Might i suggest with new hitboxes, damage reduction on onos by shotgon, cause hey i can only begin to imagine how fast those will go down will now you can effortlessly land all scrapnel peices.

And besides last time i checked scrapnel couldnt peice onos hide. For crying out loud elephants and rhinos anre naturally bullet proof(not by armor peicing and larger caliber bullets such as lets say an elephant bullet).

a_civilian · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (nukeaqua @ Oct 24 2003, 09:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>...and yes hlmv does help.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
HLMV does not show hulls. The hull is not even part of the model AFAIK. HLMV does show hitboxes, but it's pointless to look at those because they are inaccurate (as of 2.01). So, how did HLMV help you?

Forlorn · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Oct 24 2003, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, it affects both of them quite heavily from what I've seen... perhaps it was just playing against a vet that did it, or some other minor (aka: likely gone by next build so isn't worth mentioning) effects, but Kharaa are like wet tissue paper at the moment. Odd as it might sound, I'm not fully certain that even 1000hp and 500ap on an Onos would bring it to the 2.01 average level of survival.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Wow...

Well, do what you guys have to do, but I beg of you, don't resort back to the FUBAR'ed old hit boxes for the sake of balance, it just isn't too much fun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>.

But yes, right now an onos dies in 55 lv. 3 LMG shots, and if you can hit the onos nearly anywhere, this would be so easy to do... good lord. One hive onos without stomp would be useless, as all it would take is an LMG marine plus a pistol clip which will be more than enough to finish it off. Pop goes the onos fade skulk lerk. But really, fixed hitboxes are the perfect way to start balancing the game, so if I were a PT I'd be very excited.

Maian · October 2003

Well there's another factor to consider when buffing up the onos HP: heal spray.

More HP => longer to heal spray to full health

So if you want to keep the heal spray rate for onos the same, simply increase the base armor absorption.

EDIT: and you'll have to increase to max armor to compensate.

Swift_Idiot · October 2003

I was about to say, yeah, why raise the HP when you can just as easily raise the armor absorbtion to the point where the thing is practically bulletproof? It's the same idea behind heavy armor. At full armor, you soak EVERYTHING, at least until you drop to about 130 AP. Onos with 500-350 would be fine, if the AP almost literally caused bullets to plink off for the first 10 seconds of fire. Also, if armor absorbtion rate was a curved line upwards, and 500-350 was BASE health, think about, say, a 500-450 or 500-500 carapace onos that could stand in HMG fire like it was a warm summer rain.

<3

As for fades, the way those things stroll along when they aren't blinking, and the way their swipe is almost impossible to hit with unless you're halfway inside the marine you're trying to kill, and the size of the things in general, BUFF DAT ARMOR BAYBEE. I'd be happy with super-HA-esque armor for aliens. After all, aliens don't have a welder that instantly raises their armor back to maximum, and once they lose it in combat, they have to get somewhere safe to heal until it's all back again for the assault.

NeoMatrixj2 · October 2003

May I make a note about mines. When friendly fire is not on they do not blow up from friendly fire.

a_civilian · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Oct 24 2003, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>At full armor, you soak EVERYTHING, at least until you drop to about 130 AP. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Actually, the armor absorption value does not change. It remains constant until the armor reaches zero. Heavy armor will absorb 95% of all damage whether you have 2 armor points or 200.

Zek · October 2003

Have you tested that civilian?

RabidWeasel · October 2003

This is the best thing to happen to NS, ever. I don't care if it delays 2.1 for months due to rebalancing, not allowing all shots to a model to count as hits has been the critical, niggling bug dogging NS since its creation. The previous situation was totally unintuitive and a serious block to new players learning the game.

Now, onos will really be like tanks, huge slow targets that take a massive beating, as opposed to meat that falls in no time to knowledgable opponents.

BTW civilian, IIRC someone tested armour absorption values and they do slowly drop off over time, although only down to about 80%. I could be wrong though, I read it some time ago.

Yumosis · October 2003

Skulk Headshot=the win
I wouldnt be to afraid, after its balanced it will make ns much more fun.

a_civilian · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Oct 24 2003, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Have you tested that civilian? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yes, I have tested it. Heavy armor against offense chamber. Each spike took 4.75 armor and .5 health until I ran out of armor.

Windelkron · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Oct 24 2003, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> My prediction: Fade will need a slight HP/armor increase to compensate, maybe increase both by 25%. Onos will probably need almost <b>double</b> its current HP/armor to make it have the same life expectancy as it does currently.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Nah, more like triple -- because think of it -- about 1/3 of all shots fired at an Onos nowadays actually hit the onos... so to keep the same damage, he'll need to be able to take 3x the shots.

Forlorn · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yumosis @ Oct 24 2003, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Skulk Headshot=the win
I wouldnt be to afraid, after its balanced it will make ns much more fun.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Why a headshot?

It's an alien, it could be anywhere.

I'd like it if it was on the underside of the skulk personally.

Fades should be a head hitbox, gorge = stomach, onos = butt (only exposed area), and lerk = wings.

Fixed Hitboxes

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