Fixed Hitboxes

Geminosity · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">waii!</div> Considering it's a bug-fix rather than a balance test I kinda think we shouldn't have to worry too much about talking about this; Max found a way to fix the Hitboxes problem!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Now Onos will actually be hittable all over, no headless fades, no aiming for the skulk/gorges bum =3
At least I hope that's what they mean ^^

Talking theory now, but do people think this'll change the evolutions and how would you compensate for the fact onos and fades are now easier to hit or should there be any compensationary attempts at all?
No 'OMG' or rants please, intelligent discussion or random acts of thread hi-jacking are welcome though as long as it doesn't threaten our ability to see the changelog or get this closed <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Techen · October 2003

Hey, anything to help my bad aim is a good thing. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Tyrain · October 2003

That's really frikin great! But it should be betatested at least 2 weeks to find out if its even harder for aliens and than balance things out. But great work max!

*gives max a medal*

mcrwvd · October 2003

lets start an intelligent discussion, but first tell me whats =3 meaning, i asked u that in NS once too, but no answer <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> =3 i really cant see anything in there, help me!!!!1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

i never had any problems with the hitboxes before, the onos hitbox is crap, but if u kniow where to shoot its okay

other change in 2.1:
"-> Mines can be killed by regular projectiles, including parasites and friendly fire. Mines have 30 health."
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> i want to see "elite" b4sh0r3rs!!!11 shooting around in base freaking off everyone in base <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Geminosity · October 2003

eep! don't talk about balance changes mirco lol
That's what lost us the changelog for a while last time. Stick to bug fixes ^^;

=3 is just my kitty smiley silly. It's like =) only kittified <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Paranoia2MB · October 2003

I'm going to like the new mine thing to my advantage hehe.

Place them in a dark corner, wait till an enemy comes, and blast the mines. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Geminosity · October 2003

~gives paranoia a dirty look~

Typhon · October 2003

My prediction: Fade will need a slight HP/armor increase to compensate, maybe increase both by 25%. Onos will probably need almost <b>double</b> its current HP/armor to make it have the same life expectancy as it does currently.

Nefilim · October 2003

Fade will be fine if it gets its old speed back... or move acid rocket down one slot.

mcrwvd · October 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> 1000HP Onos, with umm 250 Armor, i dont think so <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'>

but maybe its okay if there are many minecampers like paranoia <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Eidolan · October 2003

I'v seen people who knew where a ono hit box as and always hit it dead on (VERY good players) and they chould down 3-4 ono per HMG clip(lvl3 with JP to get over the hit box). Thats all i gota say.

th0r0n · October 2003

That's great news, but I think the marines will be far too overpowered unless the fades/onos get a LOT more hp, i mean 2 marines could take down an onos without even changing clips.

Mind you whenever you shoot an onos usually it feels like you're hitting wall anyway, and about 3 shots out of 50 actually connect, so this is a turn up for the book!

RyoOhki · October 2003

Bug fixes galore! Max, you DA MAN! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

As for oni, I think what this fix will do is bring lerks up to a much more vital role. Oni now will want umbra support much more than before. As for Fades, most good Fade players don't get hit much anyway, so I don't think this will change much for them.

Perhaps, as a balance for oni now actually being hitable (<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> ), bring umbra up to 3/4 bullets? Might solve some problems.

Btw, the bug fix for not allowing acid rocket and other projectiles to fire through thin entities? Pure gold <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Novis · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Changelog @ 2.1i,beta)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>O Fixed all hitbox issues (Max, you da man!). This should fix the problems where players crouching behind structures could become harder to hit ("Crouching Skulk, Hidden Damage"). Bug #84.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Depends on what was considered to be an 'issue' here. AAMOF player hitboxes work closely together with the collision hulls, which, in turn, are limited by the engine in a way that makes it hard, if not impossible, to work around.
So one may assume that the resulting 'vulnerability inconsistencies' on bigger-than-hull lifeforms are taken as engine limitations and not bugs.
To me this sounds like it fixes just the problems mentioned: crouch bugs and things like that, as we know them being even worse in 1.04 (remember bite proof marines in small vents ?).

Beast · October 2003

Does this include fixes for marine hitboxes too? Would like to know that personally <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Geminosity · October 2003

they're not engine limitations as such, more hull limitations but it's very possible they found a workaround =3
Either way, stopping skulks from vanishing inside a turret factory is still a good thing if that's part of the fix ^^;

DarkFrost · October 2003

Well, judging by how fast onos and fade go down, when you hit their hitboxes... maybe

Fade :- keep the same HP and Armour values, but give it an increase% damage absorb?

but id say

Onos :- would need 750 HP 150 AP because OMG they drop fast if u shoot right

Align · October 2003

Hmm. But that would make onos regen much more health per tick. Bah, let's just see how the testing of it works out.
Hmm again.
O Fixed all hitbox issues (Max, you da man!). This should fix the problems where players crouching behind structures could become harder to hit ("Crouching Skulk, Hidden Damage"). Bug #84.
That doesn't say anything about player hitboxes fitting to model instead of hull though. . .

Novis · October 2003

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dash your hopes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>
Of course it'd be nice to have one light marine with a gl defend the base against an alien onos stampede - but maybe this is a bit too much of wishful thinking <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Geminosity · October 2003

true... but when most people talk about hitbox problems the onos is the first thing that comes up. Maybe we should go ask in the mIRC questions room thingy? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Redford · October 2003

My Guess: he disabled the dependancy of needing to hit the hull first in order to strike a hitbox.

Of course, this makes hitting oni and fades much easier, so they may need more HPs to compensate.

Gwahir · October 2003

I would think that doing it that way would make for a very large increase in server load.
Take it from the guy who wrote a raytracer.

Novis · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Oct 24 2003, 06:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> My Guess: he disabled the dependancy of needing to hit the hull first in order to strike a hitbox.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This would drastically increase the required client and server performance...

<edit>looks like gwahir was a tad faster - take this as an: I agree with gwahir <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'></edit>

Techen · October 2003

Its so very hard for us to know the exact reprocussions for these changes. Too many other changes are being thrown into the mix. If Knockback is removed for the Onos for example, what then? What if the "focus" ability was put in? Should the hit points of a Onos be doubled if he could also do double damage?

It will get sorted. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> As I said before, its a big boon for us novice marines who have trouble hitting the sweet spot on the models.

Geminosity · October 2003

unless they replaced the hulls for bullet/hit detection with their own custom bounding boxes. That way they've got the hulls for level collision, hitboxes for precision bullet collision and their new combat hull for low-grade (the one used before model hitbox) bullet collision detection ^^;

<b>edit:</b> no point bothering the people in #NSQuestions about it either; they haven't got a build with the fix in it yet so they're in the dark as much as we are =3

Novis · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 24 2003, 06:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>unless they replaced the hulls for bullet/hit detection with their own custom bounding boxes. That way they've got the hulls for level collision, hitboxes for precision bullet collision and their new combat hull for low-grade (the one used before model hitbox) bullet collision detection ^^;</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
This would mean I can kill an onos (improved 'combat' hitbox) who's head is sticking out of a thin wall (collision hull) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Geminosity · October 2003

true, but I've yet to see an onos head stick through anything... unless maybe doors but I don't remember seeing an onos head through a door either anyways =P

Xodlike · October 2003

Now here is how i got "1 3 3 7" at killin onos.
I studied HLMV hitboxes for nearely 3 hours that helpd a little.
Next I got a friend over,we made a LAN, and practiced on each other to the exact point where we new we where deadly oni killas.

And now that onos hitboxes are changing all that work for nothing...

DuFfY1 · October 2003

I don't believe those hitboxes displayed in HLMV are currently used in the game. As far as I can tell, all current hitboxes used by NS are cylinders, which sizes basically relate to the 3 clipping hulls.

... Is the new system of hitboxes going to allow for locational damage?

Forlorn · October 2003

Guys -

I don't think it's gonna fix FUBAR'ed hit boxes. Instead, you won't see anymore of this:

- Skulk hidden behind RT, invinicible
- Crouching Fade on any structure, only 1/4 of hitbox exposed
- Crouching Onos, only 1/2 of hitbox exposed

...you all get the idea.

Xodlike · October 2003

...i see...and yes hlmv does help.

Fixed Hitboxes

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