The trouble is, SuperMunchkin, is that there's no "Plan B" with sensories. If the marines get out (either by stealth, or by force and scans) and secure a hive, you're in a <i>lot </i>of trouble. Whereas the benefits MC/DC provide to tougher units mean that you can always resort to using the higher lifeforms if the marines start taking control.
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperMunchkin+Oct 13 2003, 11:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Oct 13 2003, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any Magic The Gathering players? Sensory Chambers are like Blue/Islands- they're all about event control. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is SO wrong.
The thing is, Islands only counter and have no counter to their counters; whereas sensory chambers are easily countered.
Wanna know how to get past a cloaked infested area?
Click on the observatory. Click on scanner sweep. Then click on the area that is infested with aliens. Send in the marines.
Watch the marines slaughter the aliens.
Watch the sensory chamber die. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And this argument of sensory chambers being good is OLD. The fact is, sensory chambers suck, no matter what point of the game they are used at, and something seriously needs to be done to fix it.
Problably the most inherant problem with sensory right now:
It's only good for skulks. Cloaked gorges are cool for a week, but other than that, none of the other lifeforms benifit from cloaking really...
Cloaked lerk? Wow, I'm sure anyone would like Cloaking over adrenaline or regen... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Cloaked fade? So basically, you are playing the role of a skulk; no attacking, killing only marines... this is fun... untill the marines walk out of their base with super upgrades because you couldn't kill their nodes. Cloaked Onos? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Every class benifits from D chambers, only half the classes really benifit from M chambers (Skulk, Gorge, Lerk), and only one class is really benifited from the S chamber (skulk...).
This is why D chambers are dominant, followed by M chambers, followed by S chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin--BattleTech+Oct 13 2003, 12:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BattleTech @ Oct 13 2003, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now It's back to the point when a sensory is dropped the team goes "Omg sensory, we lose" or "Omg, n00b!!" when it's dropped at the first or second hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> jeah i know that and ist really ****... i love sens couse you survive much longer if u know how to use it and the rines got no chance to find you becouse obs cost too many res for building one each outpost at the beginning and the energy regenerats to slovly (also on public most comms simply forget to scan)... sens is (my opinion) the most effektive chamber at te beginning... secend should be def (for staying out late at night ^^)
1. Sensory is not fun to play with and it's not fun to play against. 2. I play games to have fun. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .*. I don't build sensory chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Oct 13 2003, 02:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Oct 13 2003, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder how the game would work if observatory pings cost res again.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Eh?
<!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Oct 13 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Oct 13 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Oct 13 2003, 03:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Oct 13 2003, 03:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with sensory or movement first is that you don't have any way to stop electricity at the 1 hive level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to slightly disagree, but here's why: I'll agree, that for the most part, D's are better. But I personally like Moves for pub games. It allows you to get places quicker to stop their expansions and if needed, you can have a gorge with adrenline constantly healspray aliens while they kill of an electrfied node. Granted, thats a little more inconvient, but it still gives movement viability for a first hive chamber. If you can counter-point it, I would love a discussion, simply because thats just the way I see it, maybe you took a different look at it then I did and have a better point? Or maybe you to believe M's first is okay, but you just perfer d's.... Yea, I sound like an idiot, but whatever....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To Xzilen and Stoneburg:
Spiking Resources towers? GG! That's nearly 400 lerk spikes. That's alot of time wasted for a lerk. Lerks, btw, are the best anti-personnel unit in the game. You don't want to misallocate your precious man power.
As for skulks attacking a tower with an adrenaline gorge... pfft. That requires way more teamwork than humanly possible on a public game. You can sure as hell forget that happening frequently.
Movement is also a gimp at the one hive level. The chamber's active use (teleporting between hives) is a moot point at level 1. Only its upgrades come into play as a first hive chamber, which is certainly not the most effecient use.
I still maintain the path of least resistance on public and tournament games is Defense-->Movement-->Sensory.
Regen is so incredibly powerful for lerks and fades, much more so that any movement chamber upgrade is for anybody. I rarely take an upgrade as a skulk (occasionally regen + adren in the late game). Gorges don't really need an upgrade, but regen is great for them as well.
Movement first can work with a standard strategy, but sensory is for a "trick play" only. If you ever keep up with sports, you'll know that trick plays are for that 1 in 500th play, and the rest of the time you perfect the basics.
<!--QuoteBegin--pandas|RoQ+Oct 13 2003, 01:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pandas|RoQ @ Oct 13 2003, 01:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. Sensory is not fun to play with and it's not fun to play against. 2. I play games to have fun. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .*. I don't build sensory chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What he said, too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
All of this talk is moot really, you just have to take a look at skilled clan matches. The fact is that not one of them begins with a SC. In clan play you strive for effeciency and flexibility, because of the SC's blatant counter and rigidity of plan, it is a rather unreliable chamber.
The thing is, I've never really been able to come up with a sensory upgrade that might make it worth it. I guess you could do something, call it blur, that produced some kind of visual effect and gave every bullet that hit a 30% miss chance... But that still wouldn't be useful against electricity. Maybe you could have two different cloaks - one that affected automated defenses (electricity, turrets) and one that affected marines, with the cloaking field generated by SCs only affecting marines.
People hate sensory because most pubbers like to do the following:
-Never walk, so they don't cloak, unless near a SC.
-Go fade/lerk/onos ASAP and don't build a dang thing, thus making DC essential.
Also marines are using electrification a LOT more, and SC is useless against it. You'd need gorges with healspray to help take out electrified RTs, and as we all know teamwork is next to null on pubs.
I myself love SC/DC/MC building order, but hey people can't use them properly so they complain. Complaints lead to anger, anger leads to DC/MC/SC.
Unless you want to teach everyone how to play, i guess you ought to just leave them be. Build sens first when you have a good team.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 13 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 13 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SuperMunchkin+Oct 13 2003, 11:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Oct 13 2003, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any Magic The Gathering players? Sensory Chambers are like Blue/Islands- they're all about event control. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is SO wrong.
The thing is, Islands only counter and have no counter to their counters; whereas sensory chambers are easily countered.
Wanna know how to get past a cloaked infested area?
Click on the observatory. Click on scanner sweep. Then click on the area that is infested with aliens. Send in the marines.
Watch the marines slaughter the aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh please, if the marines are organized enough to have a commander ready to ping for them at EVERY POSSIBLE infestation point, he's not going to be doing much else. Besides, you immediately assume the marines will win the ensuing fight. Aliens know when they're being scanned, and should be expecting that possiblity.
Besides which, aliens don't need a sensory chamber around to stay cloaked while moving. An infested area can just be a couple aliens waiting at a choke point. Comm has only so much energy to ping the map with at one time. He'd have to get lucky, or be expecting it. And an invisible skulk stalking a group of marines to see where they're going isn't normally expected.
Motion tracking is expensive, and doesn't a pick up a walking creature. So cloaking is still viable, and indeed you probably walk anyway to stay cloaked.
Sensory doesn't suck, by itself. Only a player who can't comprehend it's uses would say such a thing. Yes, defense heals you, allows you to take more hits. But it's for fighting, sensory is for area control and ambushes. Two totally different strategies- that's why you can't really compare them and say this one is better. It's all subjective.
Some one said that if you do screw up the SC, and the marines get a hive, you have no plan B. The second hive get's you another chamber, IE your favorable DC. If you got sensory and let the marines get both hives, well let's just say defense chambers wouldn't have helped you enough to win either.
Most people still prefer death match style dogfights, which is why they go for defense chambers first. Personally, I'd be willing to bet anyone who **** and gripes about sensory chambers sucking are weak of mind, or "jock" personalities.
Sense would be even better if people realised it's not just about cloaking. A cloaking fade is no different to a cloaking skulk, but SoF rocks for fades, it's great for stopping you from running round a corner straight into a group of rines, and instead you know they're there already. If they don't have MT that gives you enough chance to blink in, kill two and blink out before they know what hit them.
However, sense does little for an Onos, and it's not brilliant for Lerks either. Sense isn't inherently the weakest of the upgrades, it's just the most risky. If you can work together properly, and pull off the rine base lockdown, sense is a winner. But if you find the marines breaking out and starting to lock the map down with elec RTs and PGs in hives, sense will kill you. If you (and your team) are willing to risk it, go sense, but if you don't like to gamble, sense isnt your chamber.
I think the problem is that for the most part, Sensories are primarily a Skulk/Gorge chamber. Cloaking is borderline useless with higher evolutions, and Scent of Fear does not make up for the loss of combat upgrades and the inability to take down elec nodes(marine node rushing is <i>much</i> more common than it was when sensories were commonplace, especially with 2.01). Movements have the same problem with elec nodes, but at least their upgrades are all extremely useful to all evolutions. I do agree that the situation with gorging on pub servers is such that it's very difficult to make proper use of sensories, but I still think they need a boost, even if it's just to make them less demanding without increasing their effectiveness.
Of course, it also doesn't help that Onoses are practically useless without D upgrades and Fades aren't a whole lot better. God forbid you get stuck at 1 hive when you didn't go D first.
sensory is a risky chamber, it functions in the extremes. It's too easy for it to be all powerful and completely nullified. e,g if theres a hidden sc in the area a few a couple of skulks would own a squad of marines but if the comm decided to scan then those skulks would be completely macked. On the issue of it being useless for higher alien classes, this is not so, its just that all the other chambers are so much better o_O
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperMunchkin+Oct 13 2003, 06:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Oct 13 2003, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I'd be willing to bet anyone who **** and gripes about sensory chambers sucking are weak of mind, or "jock" personalities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good lord, GG ignorance.
I'd counter with my own ignorant statement, but I really don't feel like this thread getting the lockdown.
I will say, however, that you are wrong, that the other 90% of the NS community that thinks sensory sucks is right, and statistics are also correct in determining Sensory is the worst chamber out of the 3 during any time of the game.
It's true that sense first effectively throws the regen fade counter to elec RTs out the window, I was just pointing out that it's not completely useless for them. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't think sense is all that bad, it's just outshined almost completely by D's or M's. Every once in a while a sense first might throw off a comm and you'll hit the jackpot with the gamble, but as a general strat sense just isn't flexible enough.
<!--QuoteBegin--_JP_+Oct 13 2003, 05:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (_JP_ @ Oct 13 2003, 05:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's too easy for it to be all powerful and completely nullified. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that statement says it best. I do like going sensory first occasionally, it is good for keeping marine from ramboing nodes. However marines can change their strategy on a dime, where the aliens are now "stuck" with sensory chamber. Honestly sensory first can be a good chamber, but like has been stated many times, requires teamwork, something that will NOT happen on pub play. At least not the whole team will work together, maybe half. I can see sensory chamber viable for clan strategies that don't involve early higher evolutions for the win.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 13 2003, 10:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 13 2003, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I will say, however, that you are wrong, that the other 90% of the NS community that thinks sensory sucks is right, and statistics are also correct in determining Sensory is the worst chamber out of the 3 during any time of the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right, I noticed you had NO argument (competent or otherwise) for the REST of my post; and just where are you getting this 90% statistic from? Pulling numbers out of thin air are we? Just because the entire world thought the world was flat, didn't make it so. So in either case, the better chamber, as I said before, is a matter of opinion. It's just that a fair amount of people refuse to even try to use the sensory style play because they can't do it well.
I would BET that people who refuse to accept that SC can be useful are weak minded or have "jock" attitudes. You think I am just jabbing fingers with this comment? Here, let me make it more clear than.
Weak Minded: Any one who is fanatically for one thing and claims all else is "wrong" are closed minded. By my definition this means they refuse to believe that anything but their on point of view could possibly be correct.
"Jock" Attitude: The player simply enjoys the deathmatch/dogfight gameplay and has no use for sensory; thereby judging it to be useless. It would be good to remember that NS is a game of teamplay and strategy, not Quake.
Sensory is one of those cute little cabbage patch dolls that have parts you can suffocate on. They sure are fun, but you'd best be careful. Sensory isnt such a bad second hive chamber, honestly. It helps gorges work incognito and boosts the viability of skulks at a time when marines are starting to tech up. Nevertheless, it easily falls into the third hive chamber for me. It's handy, but ultimately, I'd rather have defense/movement. Making arguments for sensory is pretty much irrelevant: in the case of a hive lockdown you don't want to be stuck without movement or defense.
Healing? use gorges Scent of fear useless? useful for detecting ambushes and for ambushing marines with any marine. People with this closed mind attitude towards the hard to use (like lerk bite and onos paralyse) means that new strategies dont flourish. Onos stomp is one of these that works well with sc, marine patrol gets caught on the onos and before they can fire they get stomped and mobbed by nearby skulks, if big enough there will be few marines in their base so an assault can be devestating at this point.
DC doesnt effect skulks/gorges/lerks very well and are for larger species, ie a 2nd hive ability. Being able to take one or two extra bullets usualy doesnt help you out so id say its a toss up bwtween sens and move for 1st hive chamber. MC means a mobile strike force, sc means a guerilla style attack force, depends on ur clans tactics but seeing the rambo tactic that evolves from CS and quake etc i dont see how half of u "aww sc is crap" mob could fire up a few brain cells to use tactics in a battle instead of uh, i can hget healed and take 1-2 extra bulets, SPAM DCS SPAM DCS
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Oct 13 2003, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Oct 13 2003, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Oct 13 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Oct 13 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Oct 13 2003, 03:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Oct 13 2003, 03:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with sensory or movement first is that you don't have any way to stop electricity at the 1 hive level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to slightly disagree, but here's why: I'll agree, that for the most part, D's are better. But I personally like Moves for pub games. It allows you to get places quicker to stop their expansions and if needed, you can have a gorge with adrenline constantly healspray aliens while they kill of an electrfied node. Granted, thats a little more inconvient, but it still gives movement viability for a first hive chamber. If you can counter-point it, I would love a discussion, simply because thats just the way I see it, maybe you took a different look at it then I did and have a better point? Or maybe you to believe M's first is okay, but you just perfer d's.... Yea, I sound like an idiot, but whatever....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To Xzilen and Stoneburg:
Spiking Resources towers? GG! That's nearly 400 lerk spikes. That's alot of time wasted for a lerk. Lerks, btw, are the best anti-personnel unit in the game. You don't want to misallocate your precious man power.
As for skulks attacking a tower with an adrenaline gorge... pfft. That requires way more teamwork than humanly possible on a public game. You can sure as hell forget that happening frequently.
Movement is also a gimp at the one hive level. The chamber's active use (teleporting between hives) is a moot point at level 1. Only its upgrades come into play as a first hive chamber, which is certainly not the most effecient use.
I still maintain the path of least resistance on public and tournament games is Defense-->Movement-->Sensory.
Regen is so incredibly powerful for lerks and fades, much more so that any movement chamber upgrade is for anybody. I rarely take an upgrade as a skulk (occasionally regen + adren in the late game). Gorges don't really need an upgrade, but regen is great for them as well.
Movement first can work with a standard strategy, but sensory is for a "trick play" only. If you ever keep up with sports, you'll know that trick plays are for that 1 in 500th play, and the rest of the time you perfect the basics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - Spikes. Yes, it takes 30-60 seconds or so to kill it. It is not as quick as a Fade. D is definetely the easisest way to take down elec nodes but.. I already said that. Lerk spikes *is* an option though, and it does work.
- Teamwork. Ok.. I hope that's a hyperbole but if you are serious, I can only say that I am sorry for you and I hope you find some better servers to play on. I have no problem at all 99% of the time to get someone to help me out with something like this. I mean, please, it takes only one gorge and a skulk. If it took 4 gorges, 2 skulks and a silenced lerk then I would agree that it was a bit too much effort to expect on pubs.
- Gimp. I disagree completely. M and S are in my opinion by far the strongest in the early stages of the game, at one hive level. D's become essential when you get your fades, but as far as skulk/lerks/gorges go, M is even better then D. You may not get upgrades (I have a hunch you save for fade most of the time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) but silenced or celerity skulks are *very* nasty.
M is not *as easy* as D when it comes to: - Killing elec nodes - Breaking two-hive lockdown But it is still very possible, and not that hard. With teamwork, M is even stronger (adren gorges + onos > onos + regen). D is the prefered "rambo" chamber because it means you are less dependant on your team, something I guess is prevalent in the pubs you play. I play with teamwork in mind, so I prefer something who's benefits are increased the most by it.
I would say that D and M are about equally good as first choices, if you don't have any teamwork, D is better, if you have a lot of teamwork, M is.
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperMunchkin+Oct 13 2003, 05:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Oct 13 2003, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 13 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 13 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SuperMunchkin+Oct 13 2003, 11:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Oct 13 2003, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Any Magic The Gathering players? Sensory Chambers are like Blue/Islands- they're all about event control. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is SO wrong.
The thing is, Islands only counter and have no counter to their counters; whereas sensory chambers are easily countered.
Wanna know how to get past a cloaked infested area?
Click on the observatory. Click on scanner sweep. Then click on the area that is infested with aliens. Send in the marines.
Watch the marines slaughter the aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh please, if the marines are organized enough to have a commander ready to ping for them at EVERY POSSIBLE infestation point, he's not going to be doing much else. Besides, you immediately assume the marines will win the ensuing fight. Aliens know when they're being scanned, and should be expecting that possiblity.
Besides which, aliens don't need a sensory chamber around to stay cloaked while moving. An infested area can just be a couple aliens waiting at a choke point. Comm has only so much energy to ping the map with at one time. He'd have to get lucky, or be expecting it. And an invisible skulk stalking a group of marines to see where they're going isn't normally expected.
Motion tracking is expensive, and doesn't a pick up a walking creature. So cloaking is still viable, and indeed you probably walk anyway to stay cloaked.
Sensory doesn't suck, by itself. Only a player who can't comprehend it's uses would say such a thing. Yes, defense heals you, allows you to take more hits. But it's for fighting, sensory is for area control and ambushes. Two totally different strategies- that's why you can't really compare them and say this one is better. It's all subjective.
Some one said that if you do screw up the SC, and the marines get a hive, you have no plan B. The second hive get's you another chamber, IE your favorable DC. If you got sensory and let the marines get both hives, well let's just say defense chambers wouldn't have helped you enough to win either.
Most people still prefer death match style dogfights, which is why they go for defense chambers first. Personally, I'd be willing to bet anyone who **** and gripes about sensory chambers sucking are weak of mind, or "jock" personalities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> When your arguments start to rely on situational 'what ifs' you've already LOST the argument. He's right. Sensory is too easilly countered.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Oct 13 2003, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Oct 13 2003, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Oct 13 2003, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Oct 13 2003, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Xzilen+Oct 13 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xzilen @ Oct 13 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Oct 13 2003, 03:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Oct 13 2003, 03:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with sensory or movement first is that you don't have any way to stop electricity at the 1 hive level. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to slightly disagree, but here's why: I'll agree, that for the most part, D's are better. But I personally like Moves for pub games. It allows you to get places quicker to stop their expansions and if needed, you can have a gorge with adrenline constantly healspray aliens while they kill of an electrfied node. Granted, thats a little more inconvient, but it still gives movement viability for a first hive chamber. If you can counter-point it, I would love a discussion, simply because thats just the way I see it, maybe you took a different look at it then I did and have a better point? Or maybe you to believe M's first is okay, but you just perfer d's.... Yea, I sound like an idiot, but whatever....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To Xzilen and Stoneburg:
Spiking Resources towers? GG! That's nearly 400 lerk spikes. That's alot of time wasted for a lerk. Lerks, btw, are the best anti-personnel unit in the game. You don't want to misallocate your precious man power.
As for skulks attacking a tower with an adrenaline gorge... pfft. That requires way more teamwork than humanly possible on a public game. You can sure as hell forget that happening frequently.
Movement is also a gimp at the one hive level. The chamber's active use (teleporting between hives) is a moot point at level 1. Only its upgrades come into play as a first hive chamber, which is certainly not the most effecient use.
I still maintain the path of least resistance on public and tournament games is Defense-->Movement-->Sensory.
Regen is so incredibly powerful for lerks and fades, much more so that any movement chamber upgrade is for anybody. I rarely take an upgrade as a skulk (occasionally regen + adren in the late game). Gorges don't really need an upgrade, but regen is great for them as well.
Movement first can work with a standard strategy, but sensory is for a "trick play" only. If you ever keep up with sports, you'll know that trick plays are for that 1 in 500th play, and the rest of the time you perfect the basics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> - Spikes. Yes, it takes 30-60 seconds or so to kill it. It is not as quick as a Fade. D is defineteky the easisest way to take down elec nodes but.. I already said that. Lerk spikes *is* an option though, and it does work.
- Teamwork. Ok.. I hope that's a hyperbole but if you are seriosu, I can only say that I am sorry for you and I hope you find some better servers to play on. I have no problem at all 99% of teh time to get someone to help me out with something like this. I mean, please, it takes only one gorge and a skulk. If it took 4 gorges, 2 skulks and a silenced lerk then I would agree that it was a bit too much effort to expect on pubs.
- Gimp. I disagree completely. M and S are in my opinion by far the strongest in the early stages of the game, at one hive level. D's become essential when you get your fades, but as far as skulk/lerks/gorges go, M is even better then D. You may not get upgrades (I have a hunch you save for fade most of the time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) but silenced or celerity skulks are *very* nasty.
M is not *as easy* as D when it comes to: - Killing elec nodes - Breaking two-hive lockdown But it is still very possible, and not that hard. With teamwork, M is even stronger (adren gorges + onos > onos + regen). D is the prefered "rambo" chamber because it means you are less dependant on your team, something I guess is prevalent in the pubs you play. I play with teamwork in mind, so I prefer something who's benefits are increased the most by it.
I would say that D and M are about equally good as first choices, if you don't have any teamwork, D is better, if you have a lot of teamwork, M is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HEARD HEARD <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, Stoneburg, maybe your standards of what teamwork is are a bit lower than mine. Well said on everything else. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
People know that if they put down a sensory chamber for the first hive:
Sensory Chamber + Hive 1 = Instant Win
Why? Well why don't you get 9 aliens to cloak, they crawl into the marine base.. "Guuh, Weres are teh alienz comM? Th3y alwayz Rush!" Then suddenly.... "OMG, I'm being attacked!", then the whole marine team has a skulk on them, and the poor helpless com with his turrets which do not see the aliens soon fall to the ground. Then the commander hits f4, which is a very widely used tactic to lose... The screen fades, game over man, game over! "I knew we should have built the observatory first... But com wanted a res node!.
Comments
This is SO wrong.
The thing is, Islands only counter and have no counter to their counters; whereas sensory chambers are easily countered.
Wanna know how to get past a cloaked infested area?
Click on the observatory. Click on scanner sweep. Then click on the area that is infested with aliens. Send in the marines.
Watch the marines slaughter the aliens.
Watch the sensory chamber die. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And this argument of sensory chambers being good is OLD. The fact is, sensory chambers suck, no matter what point of the game they are used at, and something seriously needs to be done to fix it.
Problably the most inherant problem with sensory right now:
It's only good for skulks. Cloaked gorges are cool for a week, but other than that, none of the other lifeforms benifit from cloaking really...
Cloaked lerk? Wow, I'm sure anyone would like Cloaking over adrenaline or regen... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Cloaked fade? So basically, you are playing the role of a skulk; no attacking, killing only marines... this is fun... untill the marines walk out of their base with super upgrades because you couldn't kill their nodes.
Cloaked Onos? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Every class benifits from D chambers, only half the classes really benifit from M chambers (Skulk, Gorge, Lerk), and only one class is really benifited from the S chamber (skulk...).
This is why D chambers are dominant, followed by M chambers, followed by S chambers.
Amen brother
jeah i know that and ist really ****... i love sens couse you survive much longer if u know how to use it and the rines got no chance to find you becouse obs cost too many res for building one each outpost at the beginning and the energy regenerats to slovly (also on public most comms simply forget to scan)... sens is (my opinion) the most effektive chamber at te beginning... secend should be def (for staying out late at night ^^)
back when 2.0 came out, sensory was all the rage, now it's died down and become somewhat of a moot point
but it's still off the hook, and I love it
2. I play games to have fun.
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.*. I don't build sensory chambers.
Eh?
Sensory would get owned hardcore...
I have to slightly disagree, but here's why:
I'll agree, that for the most part, D's are better. But I personally like Moves for pub games. It allows you to get places quicker to stop their expansions and if needed, you can have a gorge with adrenline constantly healspray aliens while they kill of an electrfied node.
Granted, thats a little more inconvient, but it still gives movement viability for a first hive chamber.
If you can counter-point it, I would love a discussion, simply because thats just the way I see it, maybe you took a different look at it then I did and have a better point? Or maybe you to believe M's first is okay, but you just perfer d's....
Yea, I sound like an idiot, but whatever....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To Xzilen and Stoneburg:
Spiking Resources towers? GG! That's nearly 400 lerk spikes. That's alot of time wasted for a lerk. Lerks, btw, are the best anti-personnel unit in the game. You don't want to misallocate your precious man power.
As for skulks attacking a tower with an adrenaline gorge... pfft. That requires way more teamwork than humanly possible on a public game. You can sure as hell forget that happening frequently.
Movement is also a gimp at the one hive level. The chamber's active use (teleporting between hives) is a moot point at level 1. Only its upgrades come into play as a first hive chamber, which is certainly not the most effecient use.
I still maintain the path of least resistance on public and tournament games is Defense-->Movement-->Sensory.
Regen is so incredibly powerful for lerks and fades, much more so that any movement chamber upgrade is for anybody. I rarely take an upgrade as a skulk (occasionally regen + adren in the late game). Gorges don't really need an upgrade, but regen is great for them as well.
Movement first can work with a standard strategy, but sensory is for a "trick play" only. If you ever keep up with sports, you'll know that trick plays are for that 1 in 500th play, and the rest of the time you perfect the basics.
2. I play games to have fun.
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.*. I don't build sensory chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What he said, too. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Never walk, so they don't cloak, unless near a SC.
-Go fade/lerk/onos ASAP and don't build a dang thing, thus making DC essential.
Also marines are using electrification a LOT more, and SC is useless against it. You'd need gorges with healspray to help take out electrified RTs, and as we all know teamwork is next to null on pubs.
I myself love SC/DC/MC building order, but hey people can't use them properly so they complain.
Complaints lead to anger, anger leads to DC/MC/SC.
Unless you want to teach everyone how to play, i guess you ought to just leave them be.
Build sens first when you have a good team.
This is SO wrong.
The thing is, Islands only counter and have no counter to their counters; whereas sensory chambers are easily countered.
Wanna know how to get past a cloaked infested area?
Click on the observatory. Click on scanner sweep. Then click on the area that is infested with aliens. Send in the marines.
Watch the marines slaughter the aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh please, if the marines are organized enough to have a commander ready to ping for them at EVERY POSSIBLE infestation point, he's not going to be doing much else. Besides, you immediately assume the marines will win the ensuing fight. Aliens know when they're being scanned, and should be expecting that possiblity.
Besides which, aliens don't need a sensory chamber around to stay cloaked while moving. An infested area can just be a couple aliens waiting at a choke point. Comm has only so much energy to ping the map with at one time. He'd have to get lucky, or be expecting it. And an invisible skulk stalking a group of marines to see where they're going isn't normally expected.
Motion tracking is expensive, and doesn't a pick up a walking creature. So cloaking is still viable, and indeed you probably walk anyway to stay cloaked.
Sensory doesn't suck, by itself. Only a player who can't comprehend it's uses would say such a thing. Yes, defense heals you, allows you to take more hits. But it's for fighting, sensory is for area control and ambushes. Two totally different strategies- that's why you can't really compare them and say this one is better. It's all subjective.
Some one said that if you do screw up the SC, and the marines get a hive, you have no plan B. The second hive get's you another chamber, IE your favorable DC. If you got sensory and let the marines get both hives, well let's just say defense chambers wouldn't have helped you enough to win either.
Most people still prefer death match style dogfights, which is why they go for defense chambers first. Personally, I'd be willing to bet anyone who **** and gripes about sensory chambers sucking are weak of mind, or "jock" personalities.
However, sense does little for an Onos, and it's not brilliant for Lerks either. Sense isn't inherently the weakest of the upgrades, it's just the most risky. If you can work together properly, and pull off the rine base lockdown, sense is a winner. But if you find the marines breaking out and starting to lock the map down with elec RTs and PGs in hives, sense will kill you. If you (and your team) are willing to risk it, go sense, but if you don't like to gamble, sense isnt your chamber.
Of course, it also doesn't help that Onoses are practically useless without D upgrades and Fades aren't a whole lot better. God forbid you get stuck at 1 hive when you didn't go D first.
On the issue of it being useless for higher alien classes, this is not so, its just that all the other chambers are so much better o_O
Good lord, GG ignorance.
I'd counter with my own ignorant statement, but I really don't feel like this thread getting the lockdown.
I will say, however, that you are wrong, that the other 90% of the NS community that thinks sensory sucks is right, and statistics are also correct in determining Sensory is the worst chamber out of the 3 during any time of the game.
I don't think sense is all that bad, it's just outshined almost completely by D's or M's. Every once in a while a sense first might throw off a comm and you'll hit the jackpot with the gamble, but as a general strat sense just isn't flexible enough.
I think that statement says it best. I do like going sensory first occasionally, it is good for keeping marine from ramboing nodes. However marines can change their strategy on a dime, where the aliens are now "stuck" with sensory chamber. Honestly sensory first can be a good chamber, but like has been stated many times, requires teamwork, something that will NOT happen on pub play. At least not the whole team will work together, maybe half. I can see sensory chamber viable for clan strategies that don't involve early higher evolutions for the win.
Right, I noticed you had NO argument (competent or otherwise) for the REST of my post; and just where are you getting this 90% statistic from? Pulling numbers out of thin air are we? Just because the entire world thought the world was flat, didn't make it so. So in either case, the better chamber, as I said before, is a matter of opinion. It's just that a fair amount of people refuse to even try to use the sensory style play because they can't do it well.
I would BET that people who refuse to accept that SC can be useful are weak minded or have "jock" attitudes. You think I am just jabbing fingers with this comment? Here, let me make it more clear than.
Weak Minded: Any one who is fanatically for one thing and claims all else is "wrong" are closed minded. By my definition this means they refuse to believe that anything but their on point of view could possibly be correct.
"Jock" Attitude: The player simply enjoys the deathmatch/dogfight gameplay and has no use for sensory; thereby judging it to be useless. It would be good to remember that NS is a game of teamplay and strategy, not Quake.
Scent of fear useless? useful for detecting ambushes and for ambushing marines with any marine.
People with this closed mind attitude towards the hard to use (like lerk bite and onos paralyse) means that new strategies dont flourish. Onos stomp is one of these that works well with sc, marine patrol gets caught on the onos and before they can fire they get stomped and mobbed by nearby skulks, if big enough there will be few marines in their base so an assault can be devestating at this point.
DC doesnt effect skulks/gorges/lerks very well and are for larger species, ie a 2nd hive ability. Being able to take one or two extra bullets usualy doesnt help you out so id say its a toss up bwtween sens and move for 1st hive chamber. MC means a mobile strike force, sc means a guerilla style attack force, depends on ur clans tactics but seeing the rambo tactic that evolves from CS and quake etc i dont see how half of u "aww sc is crap" mob could fire up a few brain cells to use tactics in a battle instead of uh, i can hget healed and take 1-2 extra bulets, SPAM DCS SPAM DCS
I have to slightly disagree, but here's why:
I'll agree, that for the most part, D's are better. But I personally like Moves for pub games. It allows you to get places quicker to stop their expansions and if needed, you can have a gorge with adrenline constantly healspray aliens while they kill of an electrfied node.
Granted, thats a little more inconvient, but it still gives movement viability for a first hive chamber.
If you can counter-point it, I would love a discussion, simply because thats just the way I see it, maybe you took a different look at it then I did and have a better point? Or maybe you to believe M's first is okay, but you just perfer d's....
Yea, I sound like an idiot, but whatever....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To Xzilen and Stoneburg:
Spiking Resources towers? GG! That's nearly 400 lerk spikes. That's alot of time wasted for a lerk. Lerks, btw, are the best anti-personnel unit in the game. You don't want to misallocate your precious man power.
As for skulks attacking a tower with an adrenaline gorge... pfft. That requires way more teamwork than humanly possible on a public game. You can sure as hell forget that happening frequently.
Movement is also a gimp at the one hive level. The chamber's active use (teleporting between hives) is a moot point at level 1. Only its upgrades come into play as a first hive chamber, which is certainly not the most effecient use.
I still maintain the path of least resistance on public and tournament games is Defense-->Movement-->Sensory.
Regen is so incredibly powerful for lerks and fades, much more so that any movement chamber upgrade is for anybody. I rarely take an upgrade as a skulk (occasionally regen + adren in the late game). Gorges don't really need an upgrade, but regen is great for them as well.
Movement first can work with a standard strategy, but sensory is for a "trick play" only. If you ever keep up with sports, you'll know that trick plays are for that 1 in 500th play, and the rest of the time you perfect the basics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Spikes. Yes, it takes 30-60 seconds or so to kill it. It is not as quick as a Fade. D is definetely the easisest way to take down elec nodes but.. I already said that. Lerk spikes *is* an option though, and it does work.
- Teamwork. Ok.. I hope that's a hyperbole but if you are serious, I can only say that I am sorry for you and I hope you find some better servers to play on. I have no problem at all 99% of the time to get someone to help me out with something like this. I mean, please, it takes only one gorge and a skulk. If it took 4 gorges, 2 skulks and a silenced lerk then I would agree that it was a bit too much effort to expect on pubs.
- Gimp. I disagree completely. M and S are in my opinion by far the strongest in the early stages of the game, at one hive level. D's become essential when you get your fades, but as far as skulk/lerks/gorges go, M is even better then D. You may not get upgrades (I have a hunch you save for fade most of the time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) but silenced or celerity skulks are *very* nasty.
M is not *as easy* as D when it comes to:
- Killing elec nodes
- Breaking two-hive lockdown
But it is still very possible, and not that hard. With teamwork, M is even stronger (adren gorges + onos > onos + regen). D is the prefered "rambo" chamber because it means you are less dependant on your team, something I guess is prevalent in the pubs you play. I play with teamwork in mind, so I prefer something who's benefits are increased the most by it.
I would say that D and M are about equally good as first choices, if you don't have any teamwork, D is better, if you have a lot of teamwork, M is.
This is SO wrong.
The thing is, Islands only counter and have no counter to their counters; whereas sensory chambers are easily countered.
Wanna know how to get past a cloaked infested area?
Click on the observatory. Click on scanner sweep. Then click on the area that is infested with aliens. Send in the marines.
Watch the marines slaughter the aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh please, if the marines are organized enough to have a commander ready to ping for them at EVERY POSSIBLE infestation point, he's not going to be doing much else. Besides, you immediately assume the marines will win the ensuing fight. Aliens know when they're being scanned, and should be expecting that possiblity.
Besides which, aliens don't need a sensory chamber around to stay cloaked while moving. An infested area can just be a couple aliens waiting at a choke point. Comm has only so much energy to ping the map with at one time. He'd have to get lucky, or be expecting it. And an invisible skulk stalking a group of marines to see where they're going isn't normally expected.
Motion tracking is expensive, and doesn't a pick up a walking creature. So cloaking is still viable, and indeed you probably walk anyway to stay cloaked.
Sensory doesn't suck, by itself. Only a player who can't comprehend it's uses would say such a thing. Yes, defense heals you, allows you to take more hits. But it's for fighting, sensory is for area control and ambushes. Two totally different strategies- that's why you can't really compare them and say this one is better. It's all subjective.
Some one said that if you do screw up the SC, and the marines get a hive, you have no plan B. The second hive get's you another chamber, IE your favorable DC. If you got sensory and let the marines get both hives, well let's just say defense chambers wouldn't have helped you enough to win either.
Most people still prefer death match style dogfights, which is why they go for defense chambers first. Personally, I'd be willing to bet anyone who **** and gripes about sensory chambers sucking are weak of mind, or "jock" personalities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
When your arguments start to rely on situational 'what ifs' you've already LOST the argument. He's right. Sensory is too easilly countered.
I have to slightly disagree, but here's why:
I'll agree, that for the most part, D's are better. But I personally like Moves for pub games. It allows you to get places quicker to stop their expansions and if needed, you can have a gorge with adrenline constantly healspray aliens while they kill of an electrfied node.
Granted, thats a little more inconvient, but it still gives movement viability for a first hive chamber.
If you can counter-point it, I would love a discussion, simply because thats just the way I see it, maybe you took a different look at it then I did and have a better point? Or maybe you to believe M's first is okay, but you just perfer d's....
Yea, I sound like an idiot, but whatever....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To Xzilen and Stoneburg:
Spiking Resources towers? GG! That's nearly 400 lerk spikes. That's alot of time wasted for a lerk. Lerks, btw, are the best anti-personnel unit in the game. You don't want to misallocate your precious man power.
As for skulks attacking a tower with an adrenaline gorge... pfft. That requires way more teamwork than humanly possible on a public game. You can sure as hell forget that happening frequently.
Movement is also a gimp at the one hive level. The chamber's active use (teleporting between hives) is a moot point at level 1. Only its upgrades come into play as a first hive chamber, which is certainly not the most effecient use.
I still maintain the path of least resistance on public and tournament games is Defense-->Movement-->Sensory.
Regen is so incredibly powerful for lerks and fades, much more so that any movement chamber upgrade is for anybody. I rarely take an upgrade as a skulk (occasionally regen + adren in the late game). Gorges don't really need an upgrade, but regen is great for them as well.
Movement first can work with a standard strategy, but sensory is for a "trick play" only. If you ever keep up with sports, you'll know that trick plays are for that 1 in 500th play, and the rest of the time you perfect the basics. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Spikes. Yes, it takes 30-60 seconds or so to kill it. It is not as quick as a Fade. D is defineteky the easisest way to take down elec nodes but.. I already said that. Lerk spikes *is* an option though, and it does work.
- Teamwork. Ok.. I hope that's a hyperbole but if you are seriosu, I can only say that I am sorry for you and I hope you find some better servers to play on. I have no problem at all 99% of teh time to get someone to help me out with something like this. I mean, please, it takes only one gorge and a skulk. If it took 4 gorges, 2 skulks and a silenced lerk then I would agree that it was a bit too much effort to expect on pubs.
- Gimp. I disagree completely. M and S are in my opinion by far the strongest in the early stages of the game, at one hive level. D's become essential when you get your fades, but as far as skulk/lerks/gorges go, M is even better then D. You may not get upgrades (I have a hunch you save for fade most of the time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) but silenced or celerity skulks are *very* nasty.
M is not *as easy* as D when it comes to:
- Killing elec nodes
- Breaking two-hive lockdown
But it is still very possible, and not that hard. With teamwork, M is even stronger (adren gorges + onos > onos + regen). D is the prefered "rambo" chamber because it means you are less dependant on your team, something I guess is prevalent in the pubs you play. I play with teamwork in mind, so I prefer something who's benefits are increased the most by it.
I would say that D and M are about equally good as first choices, if you don't have any teamwork, D is better, if you have a lot of teamwork, M is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HEARD HEARD <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
People know that if they put down a sensory chamber for the first hive:
Sensory Chamber + Hive 1 = Instant Win
Why? Well why don't you get 9 aliens to cloak, they crawl into the marine base.. "Guuh, Weres are teh alienz comM? Th3y alwayz Rush!" Then suddenly.... "OMG, I'm being attacked!", then the whole marine team has a skulk on them, and the poor helpless com with his turrets which do not see the aliens soon fall to the ground. Then the commander hits f4, which is a very widely used tactic to lose... The screen fades, game over man, game over! "I knew we should have built the observatory first... But com wanted a res node!.
So finally: 1 hive sensory: Insta Win!