My Progress. Aside form smacking myself in the head repeatedly over having to re-re-make Aux Comm. I have been mapping my **** off.
I still have quite a bit to do. I hate being last and I seem like I'm going slower then everyone else I think, however I just want this to be spectacular. As someone posted a few pages back, I'm just gonna take my time because it would be better to have a kickass remade Nancy then a lame slop one. I am going to be working swiftly as well as efficiently to get this thing hammered out.
To all interested this is the .rad file I'm working with now. Let's call it: ns_nancy.rad Beta 1.0.1. Any mapper, OneEyed who wants a slight improvement for now may change the name and compile with this file. This is no where near the final version but at least your lights will look better.
As a side note to everyone working on Nancy, I'm unsure how good Hammers texture-adjustment interface is, but if you have areas that are convoluted that you want me to help align textures on for you, just PM me a link to the file, or post it here with a password-protected ZIP and PM me the password.
You guys rock! I would die to see Nancy back in NS. I started on this long thread but got tired of the arguments around page 4. So what's the status? Has DevilDog been heard from? Will Lazer try to make an improved nancy? Is Gotham City going to fall under the terrible yoke of The Joker?
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Aug 20 2003, 01:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Aug 20 2003, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nay+Aug 19 2003, 06:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nay @ Aug 19 2003, 06:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> theres a small percentage that the original author might be willing to give you the original rmf / map :o but i doubt it, worth a try though <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...where have you been!??! Nancy was lost in a HD crash and there were major onos stuck issues when used in 2.0. Therefore Nancy was removed from being an official map in 2.0. It also is unable to be updated because of the source being lost.
The whole point of this project is to remake it and hand it back over to DevilDog. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Please tell me you take backups <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
DevilDog has NOT "vanished from the community" he justs tends to post in pt forums. He has been communicating with us in this post now. Also, nancy is getting really close to complention. Most sections of the map are done, but some connecting is needed. After that we have the vents. If all goes well after that we should be able to send it in for inclusion in 2.1.
Horray Nancy is coming back <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Im just after reading most of this whole topic, its looking great Good work
Every texture seen or not gets counted in the compile. It would of been better if before you started, made everything "null" with a scale of 5x5 or greater. Then singly put every texture on each object. This map has alot of detail, so if you do a sloppy job with the texturing (of entire brush) not just the face you want to look perfect, you will encounter really bad texture problems.
My marine start used up 3300 patches of textures. Which using my method helped. Unlike some folks who don't use this similar method end up getting over 10,000 patches for just a small room. Remember we can only have a max of 65535 patches.
<!--QuoteBegin--OneEyed+Sep 2 2003, 11:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OneEyed @ Sep 2 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Every texture seen or not gets counted in the compile. It would of been better if before you started, made everything "null" with a scale of 5x5 or greater. Then singly put every texture on each object. This map has alot of detail, so if you do a sloppy job with the texturing (of entire brush) not just the face you want to look perfect, you will encounter really bad texture problems.
My marine start used up 3300 patches of textures. Which using my method helped. Unlike some folks who don't use this similar method end up getting over 10,000 patches for just a small room. Remember we can only have a max of 65535 patches. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This error is always a ****. I hate it because it's hard to reduce your MAX_PATCHES. Perhaps DevilDof if he views this might have some enlightening words or something.
No, not max patches. I know how to fix that. I exceded the max amount of textures allowed. I don't think I used any textures not originally found in nancy though. So I'm a little confused as to why I'm getting this error.
If in the RAD stage, try adding the -notexscale flag and see if it changes things.
Usually this is considered a bad thing, but most of Nancy I've seen has scaled <b>down</b> textures, not scaled up like most Half-Life maps, so the -notexscale flag to HLRAD can reduce textures used instead of increasing it like normal. It also has the convenient side-effect of making the flashlight and other dynamic lights act more normal across the entire map, instead of taking on the dynamics of whatever surface they're shined on.
If it's outside of RAD, I'll need to take a look at the final .MAP file to try to understand what's going wrong. If you want, I can extract a complete list of textures used in the original Nancy to cross-compare, also. I know that my areas stuck to the original textures, and actually reduced the texture-count in places.
And make sure you're using compile-tools with the texture limits set to 4MB, remember that the 'default' limit is only 2MB for the original toolsets. XP-Cagey's I know for a fact is 4MB by default.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Sep 2 2003, 12:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Sep 2 2003, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, not max patches. I know how to fix that. I exceded the max amount of textures allowed. I don't think I used any textures not originally found in nancy though. So I'm a little confused as to why I'm getting this error. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm confused, guess I've never encountered this beast then. How much memory usage do you get like 4MB or something I think right, er that sucks....
Also, one more quick query. Run your .BSP through opt_plns (one of XP-Cagey's tools) just so I know what limit, for a fact, you're running into.
If it's texdata, I'd LOVE to know how. The original Nancy only uses 300k of the 4MB available in the map file. Remember, only 'included' textures take up space there, trim that -wadinclude set to NOT include ns.wad or halflife.wad, for example.
If it's texinfos, I'm even more stupified. The original Nancy only used around 25% of the available entries in that structure.
If it's lightdata, THAT is easy to fix.
And if it's planes, that is something the original Nancy was at around 85% of capacity. Running it through XP-Cagey's opt_plns should reduce it to around 1/3rd of it's current levels, automatically.
Only other limit the original Nancy even came close to was clipnodes. We'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.
Just checked my compile log file - My texture memory usage is at 2.67 and I'm almost done with Port Side, so I don't think I'll encounter this error, hopefully anyway.
easy solution, add -texdata 8000 (for example) to all the tools (HLCSG, HLBSP, HLVIS, HLRAD) so you avoid that problem, it will let you use more textures than the original 4 MB limit
<!--QuoteBegin--Mendasp+Sep 2 2003, 09:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Sep 2 2003, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> easy solution, add -texdata 8000 (for example) to all the tools (HLCSG, HLBSP, HLVIS, HLRAD) so you avoid that problem, it will let you use more textures than the original 4 MB limit <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope, that's NOT a solution. NS maps must fit in 4MB. We can't raise that limit.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Sep 2 2003, 06:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Sep 2 2003, 06:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nope, that's NOT a solution. NS maps must fit in 4MB. We can't raise that limit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As I understood it the 4mb limit was purely so software rendering would be viable. With 2.0 using FoV changes I thought that requirement had gone out of the window (though of course it's best to keep texture usage as low as you can get away with).
Done, OK, so I suck at cleaning up and nulling I thought I would leave that to you Lazer unless WWs wants the job. Port Side is still very messy and te prevent leaks when I compiled I put a "Mars2" sky box in there. It's ugly.
Anyway, don't anyone else bother d-loading this it's password protected. Lazer, I PM'd you the Pass.
<!--QuoteBegin--Maus+Sep 2 2003, 09:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maus @ Sep 2 2003, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As I understood it the 4mb limit was purely so software rendering would be viable. With 2.0 using FoV changes I thought that requirement had gone out of the window (though of course it's best to keep texture usage as low as you can get away with). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First off, FOV changes <b>do not cause software mode to stop working</b> for the umpteenth time. I don't know how that got started, but the only thing having a FOV over 90 does in software mode, is it makes the 'weapon model' vanish. That's it. End of story. Everything else works the same as always.
And second... the Natural Selection Mapping Guidelines still have the 4MB limit, but have been re-worded to state that that is for the map itself, and not for all the non-map textures loaded.
The 'hard 4MB' limit was, indeed, so software rendering would still work though, you're right.
<!--QuoteBegin--alienchickenpie+Sep 2 2003, 09:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (alienchickenpie @ Sep 2 2003, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can you list the completed areas? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um... I think the entire map is done at this point, once DarkATi's Port Engine hive and the Marine Start areas are integrated, we'll only have to make the vents, but that's a job we don't need farmed out right now. :-) Just sit tight, Nancy's on its way now...
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Sep 2 2003, 01:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Sep 2 2003, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--alienchickenpie+Sep 2 2003, 09:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (alienchickenpie @ Sep 2 2003, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can you list the completed areas? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um... I think the entire map is done at this point, once DarkATi's Port Engine hive and the Marine Start areas are integrated, we'll only have to make the vents, but that's a job we don't need farmed out right now. :-) Just sit tight, Nancy's on its way now... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> PM'd you the word of pass, have a go. Please no skulk clipping though I like Port the way it is. Thanks.
<!--QuoteBegin--Vahn_Paktu+Sep 2 2003, 03:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vahn_Paktu @ Sep 2 2003, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just to check can you still get on top of the "engine" by jumping on the red light by the res node. That was a good feature. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, I haven't tested that, however the red light is still there and it was a fairly accurate decompile so I believe you can indeed.
Comments
My Progress. Aside form smacking myself in the head repeatedly over having to re-re-make Aux Comm. I have been mapping my **** off.
I still have quite a bit to do. I hate being last and I seem like I'm going slower then everyone else I think, however I just want this to be spectacular. As someone posted a few pages back, I'm just gonna take my time because it would be better to have a kickass remade Nancy then a lame slop one. I am going to be working swiftly as well as efficiently to get this thing hammered out.
To all interested this is the .rad file I'm working with now. Let's call it: ns_nancy.rad Beta 1.0.1. Any mapper, OneEyed who wants a slight improvement for now may change the name and compile with this file. This is no where near the final version but at least your lights will look better.
Thanks,
~ DarkATi
~ DarkATi
...where have you been!??! Nancy was lost in a HD crash and there were major onos stuck issues when used in 2.0. Therefore Nancy was removed from being an official map in 2.0. It also is unable to be updated because of the source being lost.
The whole point of this project is to remake it and hand it back over to DevilDog. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please tell me you take backups <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im just after reading most of this whole topic, its looking great
Good work
My marine start used up 3300 patches of textures. Which using my method helped. Unlike some folks who don't use this similar method end up getting over 10,000 patches for just a small room. Remember we can only have a max of 65535 patches.
My marine start used up 3300 patches of textures. Which using my method helped. Unlike some folks who don't use this similar method end up getting over 10,000 patches for just a small room. Remember we can only have a max of 65535 patches. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This error is always a ****. I hate it because it's hard to reduce your MAX_PATCHES. Perhaps DevilDof if he views this might have some enlightening words or something.
Back to work. Port Side by tonight!
~ DarkATi
If in the RAD stage, try adding the -notexscale flag and see if it changes things.
Usually this is considered a bad thing, but most of Nancy I've seen has scaled <b>down</b> textures, not scaled up like most Half-Life maps, so the -notexscale flag to HLRAD can reduce textures used instead of increasing it like normal. It also has the convenient side-effect of making the flashlight and other dynamic lights act more normal across the entire map, instead of taking on the dynamics of whatever surface they're shined on.
If it's outside of RAD, I'll need to take a look at the final .MAP file to try to understand what's going wrong. If you want, I can extract a complete list of textures used in the original Nancy to cross-compare, also. I know that my areas stuck to the original textures, and actually reduced the texture-count in places.
And make sure you're using compile-tools with the texture limits set to 4MB, remember that the 'default' limit is only 2MB for the original toolsets. XP-Cagey's I know for a fact is 4MB by default.
I'm confused, guess I've never encountered this beast then. How much memory usage do you get like 4MB or something I think right, er that sucks....
EDIT: Didn't read WW's post, yeah 4 Megs.
~ DarkATi
If it's texdata, I'd LOVE to know how. The original Nancy only uses 300k of the 4MB available in the map file. Remember, only 'included' textures take up space there, trim that -wadinclude set to NOT include ns.wad or halflife.wad, for example.
If it's texinfos, I'm even more stupified. The original Nancy only used around 25% of the available entries in that structure.
If it's lightdata, THAT is easy to fix.
And if it's planes, that is something the original Nancy was at around 85% of capacity. Running it through XP-Cagey's opt_plns should reduce it to around 1/3rd of it's current levels, automatically.
Only other limit the original Nancy even came close to was clipnodes. We'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.
~ DarkATi
Nope, that's NOT a solution. NS maps must fit in 4MB. We can't raise that limit.
~ DarkATi
As I understood it the 4mb limit was purely so software rendering would be viable. With 2.0 using FoV changes I thought that requirement had gone out of the window (though of course it's best to keep texture usage as low as you can get away with).
Anyway, don't anyone else bother d-loading this it's password protected. Lazer, I PM'd you the Pass.
~ DarkATi
First off, FOV changes <b>do not cause software mode to stop working</b> for the umpteenth time. I don't know how that got started, but the only thing having a FOV over 90 does in software mode, is it makes the 'weapon model' vanish. That's it. End of story. Everything else works the same as always.
And second... the Natural Selection Mapping Guidelines still have the 4MB limit, but have been re-worded to state that that is for the map itself, and not for all the non-map textures loaded.
The 'hard 4MB' limit was, indeed, so software rendering would still work though, you're right.
Um... I think the entire map is done at this point, once DarkATi's Port Engine hive and the Marine Start areas are integrated, we'll only have to make the vents, but that's a job we don't need farmed out right now. :-) Just sit tight, Nancy's on its way now...
Um... I think the entire map is done at this point, once DarkATi's Port Engine hive and the Marine Start areas are integrated, we'll only have to make the vents, but that's a job we don't need farmed out right now. :-) Just sit tight, Nancy's on its way now... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
PM'd you the word of pass, have a go. Please no skulk clipping though I like Port the way it is. Thanks.
~ DarkATi
Yeah that's fine, thank you WWs.
~ DarkATi
You know, I haven't tested that, however the red light is still there and it was a fairly accurate decompile so I believe you can indeed.
~ DarkATi