If it's roo's server, he can do what the hell he likes with it. He's the one dishing out money to keep it up and populated, not you, therefore you have no right to say what he can and cannot do on his server no matter how unjust or unfair that may seem.
I dont object to the HMG as a weapon, I object, and I suspect that previous others also object, to the overuse of the HMG rush strategy.
It goes against every aspect of strategy gaming. The aim of an RTS is not to have the largest tech tree in the known universe, nor have the prettiest graphics. The Aim of an RTS is to have the availability of many paths to victory. At the moment, marines have 2 methods to win. 2 Hive lockdown, or, HMG rush. Both methods are boring for both teams (I have participated in 5 HMG rushes enthusiastically, after that, it got lame and boring, since then, I've been caught up in at least 80 such rushes). These are the only two strategies in popular employment in NS at this moment in time. Aliens on the flip side have one one single strategy. DMS, Hive, Defenses, Offense. Its the same every game. In Red alert, you could rush with infantry, concentrate on defenses, build up tank squads, go for naval superiority, or go for air superiority. There are many strategies. In a game called "Haegemonia" you can either tech rush to battleships, or research weapons and planet tech and concentrate on a highly mobile, light but powerful squads. Or, in starcraft, you could attack with marines or siege tank your way through, or even use wraiths while using the marines as a diversionary attack et etc etc.
Put simply, all strategy games (Especially Total Annihilation) have more then two strategies that can lead to victory. NS should be no different on the matter, and Flayra the Almighty is working on it as I write this post. He is making MC and SC viable first options, as well as fiddling with components of marines to change the way they play.
In 1.1, I forsee the Res rush as being the popular strategy, but who am I to tell?
I have played lots of fun long games - not the 2 hour epics, but the 1 hour or so long game. mostly on ns_nothing, where the marines have got cargo bay and we started from powersilo. There is always a big battle for viaduct, where it can change hands quite a few times. admittedly, once the marines lock it down, its basically all over for the aliens, but if they manage to get fades, the marines are well entrenched in cargo bay and there ensues a long battle trying to destroy them.
its no fun loosing, but its better loosing as a marine than as an alien
(ps - Onos is both singular and plural - like 1 sheep and 2 sheep - 1 onos and 2 onos)
<!--QuoteBegin--z.x. bogglestiensky+Apr 29 2003, 10:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (z.x. bogglestiensky @ Apr 29 2003, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have played lots of fun long games - not the 2 hour epics, but the 1 hour or so long game. mostly on ns_nothing, where the marines have got cargo bay and we started from powersilo. There is always a big battle for viaduct, where it can change hands quite a few times. admittedly, once the marines lock it down, its basically all over for the aliens, but if they manage to get fades, the marines are well entrenched in cargo bay and there ensues a long battle trying to destroy them.
its no fun loosing, but its better loosing as a marine than as an alien
(ps - Onos is both singular and plural - like 1 sheep and 2 sheep - 1 onos and 2 onos) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No it's definitely one onos, more onoses, all the onoses. Look it up in the dictionary!
Oh, and doing spawn rape, HMG rush on public server is lame, m'kay? If it is that what you want, go play a clan game. They're all decided on rushes of various kinds. Which should be a valid enough reason not to pursue asshat clan tactics in public games.
Hmg rush is a valid tatic although i rarely do it without jet packs or ha and full upgrades.But i don't see the point of the aliens suffering slowly to try and slow the game by the way 2 hive lock downs usually force the alien to build "imprentratable" defence and the marines pumping lots of sentries in hives to make sure there is no take down.
BUT there are some commanders who choose to build just outside the hive(especially in cage)SO the aliens can win if the marines are blur enough to overlook the fact that aliens can sneak build the hive and morph fades(EVEN WITH HMG)
so just try your luck but if every hive is secured with marines,tough luck
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Apr 28 2003, 10:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Apr 28 2003, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> HMG rush in 5 minutes isn't possible in 1.1. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why not? I can't get my brain there, are the research times getting longer?
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
It's the game design's fault for not encouraging or making many different options equally viable (read: equal chances of success on average). 1.1 will fix that hopefully. And in my experience, JP/HMG strategies usually take 10 minutes.
I have played on Roobs server for quiet awhile now, and I must say that it has been one of the best along with the "Dumdass Britts" server. Although I have noticed a current change in attitudes on both of them: it has become more and more non-user friendly. The vets has become more and more hostile towards new players (much like the attitude in cs) and now the feared "hmg rush" has started to get its grip.
I am with Roob on this one, for if this mhg rush "tactic" contiues NS will only become another CS in somekind of sci-fi dress and I don't want that. It's better to close down the server and wait for 1.1 to be released than to bring the server down totaly.
I've had many "epic" games and enjoyed the wins and losses. There have been times where the marines lock down a hive and the game stagnates, but the alien side has also managed to turn things around with persistance. We found that if you hammer enough, the other marines are liable too make mistakes at sometime in keeping up defenses, (eg finding the blind spot behind a turret factory, blinking in and reeking havoc.) It's fun too find new flaws in the opposing sides tactics and taking advantage of them until they figure out whats going wrong...I thought that was the whole idea of the game?
I'm glad to see there's enough other people out there who are fed up of the same old tactics being used every single game. In my opinion it's ruining the game.
As for the comm, you weren't to KNOW that I detest 5 minute "all or nothing" rush games, so I'll let you off for that. Abusing me though, well... grow up tbh.
I will be editing the MotD to include details about these "let's try to win or lose it as soon as possible" games.
On a side note, it is these games that empty servers. Reason? (and I've observed this a lot) Map timelimit is 30mins on my server. You have 3 of these rush games (whatever the scoreline and this is what that random comm guy fails to understand) and there's still 15 mins or more left on that map, but everyone is fed up of it and wants to change. This empties servers quicker than me with a shotgun.
That is another part of why I don't want this on my server.
Anyway I'm pretty much done now, and I'll even avoid ranting at the guy who called me a n00b (lol, silly bear).
Well on roobs server you generally have no control on the marines, they all rambo and end up locking down the hive anyway. From then on its not really worth stopping it.
just to clear things up, jojo, there were 2 people building DCs in the hive when your boys rolled in, but from that distance against hmgs there was nothing they could do. I don't dispute that defenses should have been up there, HOWEVER it wasn't me who was gorge (and when you were gorge you failed to put defenses up at the base hive, instead opting to put lots at CC first, so you too would have lost the game against this tactic) Of course it's not the winning or losing in this case as I've explained very adequately above.
And as for critical - I'm not banning any good players from my server. I encourage good players who can play well as a team, I AM however stating MY rules on MY server, and the regulars are quite happy to support those rules.
As I said, the short game "win or lose but end in 5 minutes either way" mentality is NOT welcome.
Hmg rush is a valid tatic although i rarely do it without jet packs or ha and full upgrades.But i don't see the point of the aliens suffering slowly to try and slow the game by the way 2 hive lock downs usually force the alien to build "imprentratable" defence and the marines pumping lots of sentries in hives to make sure there is no take down.
BUT there are some commanders who choose to build just outside the hive(especially in cage)SO the aliens can win if the marines are blur enough to overlook the fact that aliens can sneak build the hive and morph fades(EVEN WITH HMG)
so just try your luck but if every hive is secured with marines,tough luck <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The marines controlled their base (with plenty of marines) and one other res node. If the rush had failed they'd have lost. There was no presence in any hive (until the end clearly).
You're missing the point, it's not the HMG I object to (though I'd like a shotty please comm) at all, it's the short games mentality.
Don't think I've ever been involved in a quick hmg rush on your server.
Had some good games though. Mind, took your sweet time on hera <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Roobubba+Apr 29 2003, 11:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Apr 29 2003, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On a side note, it is these games that empty servers. Reason? (and I've observed this a lot) Map timelimit is 30mins on my server. You have 3 of these rush games (whatever the scoreline and this is what that random comm guy fails to understand) and there's still 15 mins or more left on that map, but everyone is fed up of it and wants to change. This empties servers quicker than me with a shotgun.
That is another part of why I don't want this on my server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Change your timelimit to 15 minutes or less.
I agree that rushes (both alien and marine) are boring and a waste of my gaming time. Occasionally (1 out of 5-6 games), they can be fun, but it's a sad time when they become the norm <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Honestly, whether the JP/HMG rush is lame, a valid tactic, or WHATEVER, it's boring as HELL. Don't give me any of that BS about how the aliens can totally gimp themselves in the begining by building offense towers or defense towers or gorge rushing or whatever your ridiculous non-consistantly working strategy is.
The JP/HMG rush is CONSISTANTLY effective unlike 90% of the alien strategies (before getting 2 hives), which makes it extremely boring if that's all the marines are going to do. A map of eclipse where aliens get screwed with the maint hive would prove that to any moron in a second. 2 clips of HMG with own a hive, and when aliens can't fly and there's 6 marines pounding away at a hive it goes down pretty quick. If nobodies seen it, marines are now doing the rush tech to JP/HMG and the non-recycle route. Where they grab nearly every res node while keeping their base heavily protected and then flying out with JP/HMG, blasting down the first hive and easily following up on the second as the gorge has just wasted 80 res to relocate basically. Now the marines can mop up everything at their leisure and possibly even take out the second hive before it totally goes up.
You wonder why NS isn't real popular in clan circles it's because the only part of the match that matters is when your marines and how fast you can destroy the aliens, not IF you can, how fast you can. When you're aliens in a clan match of course you're going to use all this cool strategy of building up internal hive defenses because you're not actually trying to win, you're trying to last the longest. The first clanner to argue against this fact gets my "YOU SUCK" sticker of approval.
<!--QuoteBegin--EnemyWithin+Apr 29 2003, 07:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EnemyWithin @ Apr 29 2003, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Change your timelimit to 15 minutes or less. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That would however almost cater for the rush games. I would rather stamp them out than simply adapt the server to deal with them. It's fairly nice to have 2 games on a map, especially when something you tried did or didn't work in 20/25 mins or so, then you get another chance, or a chance to play as the other team on the same map.
As fro taking our sweet time on hera - yeah it's that naughty dms and his turret farming again, but there is a very much inherent part of the game in 2 hive lockdowns where aliens build a pretty formidable defense and getting into and taking down that last hive is not always as fast as it's cracked up to be. I totally sympathize, as I've been in that situation many times too. It is something I try to speed up though as you may have noticed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hypno+Apr 29 2003, 08:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hypno @ Apr 29 2003, 08:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If no one is going to do a detail count i will
lets see........
starting say 6 marines example
2 ips =44 res OR 1 ip=22 res
1 armory=25 res
upgrade=35 for upgraded armory
at least 5 hmgs to give out......
total res cap with 2 ip 44+25+35+(25x5)= 229=5 mins? impossible....
total res cap with 1 ip 229-22=207 res 5 mins? impossible
with 1 rt ticking no way.... with 2 no way....... with 3 yes possible
so easiest solution........ take out the rts correct? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry dude, but all it takes is one HMG/JP to take out an exposed hive against 1-hive aliens..
There is no defense. The only question in those games is: can the aliens START another hive before the first one goes down.
Clan matches feature all of the marines simply guarding the base while researching JP/HMG. Hand it out, take out hive, gg.
<!--QuoteBegin--MadcapMagician+Apr 28 2003, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MadcapMagician @ Apr 28 2003, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think HMG rush is a perfectly valid tactic, risky but when it works it pays off big... but thats not what the thread is about.
I don't understand why people are so frustrated with tactics that finish the alien team off in a short time. Slow alien losses are the only miserable part of NS and since there are bound to be alien losses I'd rather lose to HMGs in 10 minutes or JP/HMG in 20 minutes than have a 3 hour 2 hive lockdown. Uselessly throwing yourself at fortified marines for 2 hours before they finally march HA on you is no fun. I'd rather lose to JP/HMG or just HMG quickly and play another game. Won't someone think of the aliens! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah hes right, I dont really mind fast tactics becuz its way better then having a lame comm who builds 150 res siege bases to take out every single rt. and really fortifies the full map b4 they even put a step in our hive...
I read somewhere that 1.1 was gonna have upgrade tiers or something... Something about slowing down the tech or something, but im probly mixing some stuff up... does someone know what I mean?
O.K. let's clear some things up before even more incredible assumptions pop up:
1) We had 1 ip, 2 rts and got 5 (4?) HMGs. This whole thing lasted 5-6 mins, <i>not more</i>. 2) The problem with this tactic is that it makes decent games impossible, either way. 3) Roob does not ban any newbs, that's nonsense. 4) "No Hmg (Jp)" != "2-hive-lockdown"
When I said our game was epic I didn't mean any one-sided battles or lockdowns etc. We were playing bast and marines got atmos and feed, while the aliens got both hives up. As both teams were equally strong each having several skilled regulars, the marines were not able to beat the aliens. So we were fighting all over the place, mainly in tram, feed, atmos, (marine start, engine, ref). Marines were fullly upgraded while the map was fully lamed up. There were always several HAs with HMGs, Grens and welding vasalls fighting against fades with gorge and lerk support. Immediately after long-lasting attacks of one team the other team countered equally hard. In the end we (aliens) beat them with a last, simultaneous attack on both bases (It wasn't really intended, to be honest, because after 2 hours you lose the confidence in coordinated attacks. I remember Sephiroth's enthusiastic exclamation when he killed atmos and his immense surprise afterwards when he realized the marines were killed in the mean time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) I had the feeling as if we were fighting trench wars with great casualties and no strategical profit like in WW1 <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And having said that, such games are by far not so uncommon (at least on that server). I had 3 of them in the last week (one of them was on hera, btw). So I can understand why Roo gets so upset, because those quickwins/quicklosses just destroy the great feeling of NS. There can be so much better games, so why waste your time on lame wins?
Anyway, there is no need to overreact, just move on to another great game and ignore the lameness!
Well I'll give eclipse as an example since I HMG rushed there an ungodly amount last week, this is in a 22/22 server.
Game starts, 1 IP, Armory, check where aliens are.
1. Aleins in eclipse, upgrade armory, capture alpha, horse, maint, possibly south loop. wait for HMG to upgrade should have 80-90 resc when it does, hand out 3-4 HMGs send them to eclipse. Drop more HMG's as you get them. Game over. about 4-5 mins.
2. Aliens in maint, upgrade armory, captura alpha, triad, and eclipse, possibly sub junction. See above.
3. Aliens in CC go for alpha, triad, eclipse, possibly horse. This is the only one that bears any risk because aliens have some kind of positioning. Repeat above.
I've done this well over 20 times, I've actually had our spawn completely destroyed five or six times and still won.
It just works too well on big servers. Still waiting for 1.1.
Actually, Monsieur, HMGs are possible in 5 minutes on 1.1, but they are incredibly risky. You're basically banking the entire game on one or two HMGs. Of course, the aliens could have all three hives in that time if they aren't pressured. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh the mystery! Seems like you are just teasing us <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Tell us your sekrats or I shall punish you...with...a blender! And...a pen!
<!--QuoteBegin--Roobubba+Apr 29 2003, 11:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Apr 29 2003, 11:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> just to clear things up, jojo, there were 2 people building DCs in the hive when your boys rolled in, but from that distance against hmgs there was nothing they could do. I don't dispute that defenses should have been up there, HOWEVER it wasn't me who was gorge (and when you were gorge you failed to put defenses up at the base hive, instead opting to put lots at CC first, so you too would have lost the game against this tactic) Of course it's not the winning or losing in this case as I've explained very adequately above.
And as for critical - I'm not banning any good players from my server. I encourage good players who can play well as a team, I AM however stating MY rules on MY server, and the regulars are quite happy to support those rules.
As I said, the short game "win or lose but end in 5 minutes either way" mentality is NOT welcome.
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok ok....next time I will lock both hives down with 30 Turrets each, get full upgrades, then send my guys in with HA/Welders to finish off the hive then. Thats a good 3+ hours for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Apr 29 2003, 12:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Apr 29 2003, 12:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, Monsieur, HMGs are possible in 5 minutes on 1.1, but they are incredibly risky. You're basically banking the entire game on one or two HMGs. Of course, the aliens could have all three hives in that time if they aren't pressured. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I am not one who likes to argue with genius, but 3 hives in 5 minutes? Yuck!
Why not just start both sides with full upgrades? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Flayra has the sekrat "Rip res node out of ship and suck it like a hose" cheat that fills his res up automagically and then he explodes and his organics splatter everywhere creating 3 hives from his gooey body. Then he takes control of the ship and drives it into the sun! You might as well be walking on the sun (do do do dee dee...)
One more point about the JP/HMG rush: Yes, it's possible to stop it, but that's not the point. The point is that aliens have to go through such considerable pains to stop it, it requires FAR MORE organization than the JP rush, and for a game of equal skill levels, the marines will win. THAT is imbalance.
<!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One more point about the JP/HMG rush: Yes, it's possible to stop it, but that's not the point. The point is that aliens have to go through such considerable pains to stop it, it requires FAR MORE organization than the JP rush, and for a game of equal skill levels, the marines will win. THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush.
Comments
I dont object to the HMG as a weapon, I object, and I suspect that previous others also object, to the overuse of the HMG rush strategy.
It goes against every aspect of strategy gaming. The aim of an RTS is not to have the largest tech tree in the known universe, nor have the prettiest graphics. The Aim of an RTS is to have the availability of many paths to victory. At the moment, marines have 2 methods to win. 2 Hive lockdown, or, HMG rush. Both methods are boring for both teams (I have participated in 5 HMG rushes enthusiastically, after that, it got lame and boring, since then, I've been caught up in at least 80 such rushes). These are the only two strategies in popular employment in NS at this moment in time. Aliens on the flip side have one one single strategy. DMS, Hive, Defenses, Offense. Its the same every game. In Red alert, you could rush with infantry, concentrate on defenses, build up tank squads, go for naval superiority, or go for air superiority. There are many strategies. In a game called "Haegemonia" you can either tech rush to battleships, or research weapons and planet tech and concentrate on a highly mobile, light but powerful squads. Or, in starcraft, you could attack with marines or siege tank your way through, or even use wraiths while using the marines as a diversionary attack et etc etc.
Put simply, all strategy games (Especially Total Annihilation) have more then two strategies that can lead to victory. NS should be no different on the matter, and Flayra the Almighty is working on it as I write this post. He is making MC and SC viable first options, as well as fiddling with components of marines to change the way they play.
In 1.1, I forsee the Res rush as being the popular strategy, but who am I to tell?
its no fun loosing, but its better loosing as a marine than as an alien
(ps - Onos is both singular and plural - like 1 sheep and 2 sheep - 1 onos and 2 onos)
its no fun loosing, but its better loosing as a marine than as an alien
(ps - Onos is both singular and plural - like 1 sheep and 2 sheep - 1 onos and 2 onos) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it's definitely one onos, more onoses, all the onoses. Look it up in the dictionary!
Oh, and doing spawn rape, HMG rush on public server is lame, m'kay? If it is that what you want, go play a clan game. They're all decided on rushes of various kinds. Which should be a valid enough reason not to pursue asshat clan tactics in public games.
Hmg rush is a valid tatic although i rarely do it without jet packs or ha and full upgrades.But i don't see the point of the aliens suffering slowly to try and slow the game by the way 2 hive lock downs usually force the alien to build "imprentratable" defence and the marines pumping lots of sentries in hives to make sure there is no take down.
BUT there are some commanders who choose to build just outside the hive(especially in cage)SO the aliens can win if the marines are blur enough to overlook the fact that aliens can sneak build the hive and morph fades(EVEN WITH HMG)
so just try your luck but if every hive is secured with marines,tough luck
Why not? I can't get my brain there, are the research times getting longer?
I am with Roob on this one, for if this mhg rush "tactic" contiues NS will only become another CS in somekind of sci-fi dress and I don't want that. It's better to close down the server and wait for 1.1 to be released than to bring the server down totaly.
I'm glad to see there's enough other people out there who are fed up of the same old tactics being used every single game. In my opinion it's ruining the game.
As for the comm, you weren't to KNOW that I detest 5 minute "all or nothing" rush games, so I'll let you off for that. Abusing me though, well... grow up tbh.
I will be editing the MotD to include details about these "let's try to win or lose it as soon as possible" games.
On a side note, it is these games that empty servers. Reason? (and I've observed this a lot) Map timelimit is 30mins on my server. You have 3 of these rush games (whatever the scoreline and this is what that random comm guy fails to understand) and there's still 15 mins or more left on that map, but everyone is fed up of it and wants to change. This empties servers quicker than me with a shotgun.
That is another part of why I don't want this on my server.
Anyway I'm pretty much done now, and I'll even avoid ranting at the guy who called me a n00b (lol, silly bear).
Roo
And as for critical - I'm not banning any good players from my server. I encourage good players who can play well as a team, I AM however stating MY rules on MY server, and the regulars are quite happy to support those rules.
As I said, the short game "win or lose but end in 5 minutes either way" mentality is NOT welcome.
Roo
Hmg rush is a valid tatic although i rarely do it without jet packs or ha and full upgrades.But i don't see the point of the aliens suffering slowly to try and slow the game by the way 2 hive lock downs usually force the alien to build "imprentratable" defence and the marines pumping lots of sentries in hives to make sure there is no take down.
BUT there are some commanders who choose to build just outside the hive(especially in cage)SO the aliens can win if the marines are blur enough to overlook the fact that aliens can sneak build the hive and morph fades(EVEN WITH HMG)
so just try your luck but if every hive is secured with marines,tough luck <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The marines controlled their base (with plenty of marines) and one other res node. If the rush had failed they'd have lost. There was no presence in any hive (until the end clearly).
You're missing the point, it's not the HMG I object to (though I'd like a shotty please comm) at all, it's the short games mentality.
Roo
Don't think I've ever been involved in a quick hmg rush on your server.
Had some good games though. Mind, took your sweet time on hera <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Creep.
That is another part of why I don't want this on my server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Change your timelimit to 15 minutes or less.
I agree that rushes (both alien and marine) are boring and a waste of my gaming time. Occasionally (1 out of 5-6 games), they can be fun, but it's a sad time when they become the norm <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
The JP/HMG rush is CONSISTANTLY effective unlike 90% of the alien strategies (before getting 2 hives), which makes it extremely boring if that's all the marines are going to do. A map of eclipse where aliens get screwed with the maint hive would prove that to any moron in a second. 2 clips of HMG with own a hive, and when aliens can't fly and there's 6 marines pounding away at a hive it goes down pretty quick. If nobodies seen it, marines are now doing the rush tech to JP/HMG and the non-recycle route. Where they grab nearly every res node while keeping their base heavily protected and then flying out with JP/HMG, blasting down the first hive and easily following up on the second as the gorge has just wasted 80 res to relocate basically. Now the marines can mop up everything at their leisure and possibly even take out the second hive before it totally goes up.
You wonder why NS isn't real popular in clan circles it's because the only part of the match that matters is when your marines and how fast you can destroy the aliens, not IF you can, how fast you can. When you're aliens in a clan match of course you're going to use all this cool strategy of building up internal hive defenses because you're not actually trying to win, you're trying to last the longest. The first clanner to argue against this fact gets my "YOU SUCK" sticker of approval.
Change your timelimit to 15 minutes or less.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would however almost cater for the rush games. I would rather stamp them out than simply adapt the server to deal with them. It's fairly nice to have 2 games on a map, especially when something you tried did or didn't work in 20/25 mins or so, then you get another chance, or a chance to play as the other team on the same map.
As fro taking our sweet time on hera - yeah it's that naughty dms and his turret farming again, but there is a very much inherent part of the game in 2 hive lockdowns where aliens build a pretty formidable defense and getting into and taking down that last hive is not always as fast as it's cracked up to be.
I totally sympathize, as I've been in that situation many times too. It is something I try to speed up though as you may have noticed.
lets see........
starting say 6 marines example
2 ips =44 res OR 1 ip=22 res
1 armory=25 res
upgrade=35 for upgraded armory
at least 5 hmgs to give out......
total res cap with 2 ip 44+25+35+(25x5)=
229=5 mins? impossible....
total res cap with 1 ip 229-22=207 res
5 mins? impossible
with 1 rt ticking no way....
with 2 no way.......
with 3 yes possible
so easiest solution........
take out the rts correct?
lets see........
starting say 6 marines example
2 ips =44 res OR 1 ip=22 res
1 armory=25 res
upgrade=35 for upgraded armory
at least 5 hmgs to give out......
total res cap with 2 ip 44+25+35+(25x5)=
229=5 mins? impossible....
total res cap with 1 ip 229-22=207 res
5 mins? impossible
with 1 rt ticking no way....
with 2 no way.......
with 3 yes possible
so easiest solution........
take out the rts correct? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry dude, but all it takes is one HMG/JP to take out an exposed hive against 1-hive aliens..
There is no defense. The only question in those games is: can the aliens START another hive before the first one goes down.
Clan matches feature all of the marines simply guarding the base while researching JP/HMG. Hand it out, take out hive, gg.
No fun.
<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't understand why people are so frustrated with tactics that finish the alien team off in a short time. Slow alien losses are the only miserable part of NS and since there are bound to be alien losses I'd rather lose to HMGs in 10 minutes or JP/HMG in 20 minutes than have a 3 hour 2 hive lockdown. Uselessly throwing yourself at fortified marines for 2 hours before they finally march HA on you is no fun. I'd rather lose to JP/HMG or just HMG quickly and play another game. Won't someone think of the aliens! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah hes right, I dont really mind fast tactics becuz its way better then having a lame comm who builds 150 res siege bases to take out every single rt. and really fortifies the full map b4 they even put a step in our hive...
I read somewhere that 1.1 was gonna have upgrade tiers or something... Something about slowing down the tech or something, but im probly mixing some stuff up... does someone know what I mean?
1) We had 1 ip, 2 rts and got 5 (4?) HMGs. This whole thing lasted 5-6 mins, <i>not more</i>.
2) The problem with this tactic is that it makes decent games impossible, either way.
3) Roob does not ban any newbs, that's nonsense.
4) "No Hmg (Jp)" != "2-hive-lockdown"
When I said our game was epic I didn't mean any one-sided battles or lockdowns etc.
We were playing bast and marines got atmos and feed, while the aliens got both hives up. As both teams were equally strong each having several skilled regulars, the marines were not able to beat the aliens. So we were fighting all over the place, mainly in tram, feed, atmos, (marine start, engine, ref). Marines were fullly upgraded while the map was fully lamed up. There were always several HAs with HMGs, Grens and welding vasalls fighting against fades with gorge and lerk support. Immediately after long-lasting attacks of one team the other team countered equally hard. In the end we (aliens) beat them with a last, simultaneous attack on both bases (It wasn't really intended, to be honest, because after 2 hours you lose the confidence in coordinated attacks. I remember Sephiroth's enthusiastic exclamation when he killed atmos and his immense surprise afterwards when he realized the marines were killed in the mean time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) I had the feeling as if we were fighting trench wars with great casualties and no strategical profit like in WW1 <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And having said that, such games are by far not so uncommon (at least on that server). I had 3 of them in the last week (one of them was on hera, btw). So I can understand why Roo gets so upset, because those quickwins/quicklosses just destroy the great feeling of NS. There can be so much better games, so why waste your time on lame wins?
Anyway, there is no need to overreact, just move on to another great game and ignore the lameness!
Game starts, 1 IP, Armory, check where aliens are.
1. Aleins in eclipse, upgrade armory, capture alpha, horse, maint, possibly south loop. wait for HMG to upgrade should have 80-90 resc when it does, hand out 3-4 HMGs send them to eclipse. Drop more HMG's as you get them. Game over. about 4-5 mins.
2. Aliens in maint, upgrade armory, captura alpha, triad, and eclipse, possibly sub junction. See above.
3. Aliens in CC go for alpha, triad, eclipse, possibly horse. This is the only one that bears any risk because aliens have some kind of positioning. Repeat above.
I've done this well over 20 times, I've actually had our spawn completely destroyed five or six times and still won.
It just works too well on big servers. Still waiting for 1.1.
Tell us your sekrats or I shall punish you...with...a blender! And...a pen!
...uh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And as for critical - I'm not banning any good players from my server. I encourage good players who can play well as a team, I AM however stating MY rules on MY server, and the regulars are quite happy to support those rules.
As I said, the short game "win or lose but end in 5 minutes either way" mentality is NOT welcome.
Roo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok ok....next time I will lock both hives down with 30 Turrets each, get full upgrades, then send my guys in with HA/Welders to finish off the hive then. Thats a good 3+ hours for you.
I am not one who likes to argue with genius, but 3 hives in 5 minutes? Yuck!
Why not just start both sides with full upgrades? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
THAT is imbalance.
THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush.