What Flayra said makes since since multi-gorge will be assumably viable say you double gorge both could probly get 80 res in five minutes if they don't build... tho you would need the skulks to team up and take down those HMGs then hit up base... talking 1.1 strat isn't really my strongsuit though seeing as how WE have no idea what the resource model is gunna be like.
<!--QuoteBegin--Malicious Dub+Apr 30 2003, 03:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Malicious Dub @ Apr 30 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What Flayra said makes since since multi-gorge will be assumably viable say you double gorge both could probly get 80 res in five minutes if they don't build... tho you would need the skulks to team up and take down those HMGs then hit up base... talking 1.1 strat isn't really my strongsuit though seeing as how WE have no idea what the resource model is gunna be like. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All im going to say is that the HMG rush I did in 1.04 wont work in 1.1.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Apr 29 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Apr 29 2003, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, Monsieur, HMGs are possible in 5 minutes on 1.1, but they are incredibly risky. You're basically banking the entire game on one or two HMGs. Of course, the aliens could have all three hives in that time if they aren't pressured. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your taunting makes me cry the tears of a thousand rivers.
"Ok ok....next time I will lock both hives down with 30 Turrets each, get full upgrades, then send my guys in with HA/Welders to finish off the hive then. Thats a good 3+ hours for you. "
Eugh, I hate attitudes like this. You have that schoolboy mentality, where you have to try and find gaps in common-sense rules, trying to prove yourself to be intelligent.
Isn't it enough to say "Don't do anything stupid"? Do you NEED to have 1,2,3 rules to stop you making a prat of yourself?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Isn't it enough to say "Don't do anything stupid"? Do you NEED to have 1,2,3 rules to stop you making a prat of yourself?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why are you starting with personal and unjustified insults now?
Apparently Jojo's team was so good that its victory was inevitable. For some strange reason, he is being asked to delay the inevitable for a long time to suit certain individuals' peculiar interpretation of fun. He is saying that he will do just that. I see no immaturity in that reaction. It's not his fault that the game is broken.
HMG rushes...Pfft...You'd almost think that players would like to try something new...If 1 in 6 games are fun in 1.04...Then I'd imagine that 5 in 6 games will be fun in 1.1 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Bye bye HMG rush!
<!--QuoteBegin--Jojoshua+Apr 29 2003, 01:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Apr 29 2003, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok ok....next time I will lock both hives down with 30 Turrets each, get full upgrades, then send my guys in with HA/Welders to finish off the hive then. Thats a good 3+ hours for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The guy a few posts above here says "Apparently Jojo's team was so good that its victory was inevitable."
This simply wasn't true. If you know nothing about anything (and you've proved here you know nothing about this at least), then keep your nose out of other people's business tbh.
The attitude that jojo has displayed here by saying the above quote is quite beyond belief.
I have already made it quite clear WHY I dislike hmg rushes, whatever team I'm on. The fact is, even a team of complete muppets COULD have walked in there with the hmgs and shot the hive, the base defense was poor. I'm not trying to relive the entire 5 minutes out here but it seems that others ARE. This isn't about specifics - getting defenses up MAY have bought enough time for us to take them down, but then they WOULD have lost very soon afterwards. (I'd just built the first DC and S3ph had just built the second, and if you think Shadow-Corps S3phiroth is a bad player then you do indeed know nothing about online gaming).
What IS relevant is the attitude that the game WILL BE 5 mins an no more from the start, which is what jojo did when he commanded the game.
You think you can win against the same team using other strategies (those that don't rely on a game imbalance), fine try it. We all know that before carapace, even the best skulks get (comparatively) owned by even unupgraded marines. Once those towers come up though, I guarantee you'll be the one getting pwned sat in your comfy comm chair, with your attitude that you will always win, whatever strategy you use. Here's a flash, You won't, especially not against a team with the calibre of the regulars on my server.
You've admitted yourself that strategy won't work in 1.1 - why do you THINK it won't work in 1.1??? Maybe because it's an imbalance, hence "exploitable" (though I use this term reservedly) and only results in annoying games for most decent players around.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's not his fault that the game is broken<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but it IS his fault for "exploiting" (again, do not misunderstand my use of this word cos I know some cretin will) that brokenness.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why are you starting with personal and unjustified insults now?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe he's said that because of JoJo's "I am teh winn4r" attitude. What bugs me is you STILL fail to see that by choosing a 5 minute game you're spoiling the game for everyone else. <span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Succeed or fail, the tactic results in a rubbish game.</span> </span>
You are getting yourself confused with a tactic and exploit. There have been a lot of patches before 1.04 and leading up to it son. If it was an exploit, it would be easily fixed. Guess what....the rush I did on you guys , I would never do in a clan match....you know why? Because it can be easily countered. On a pub game with yourself and your "inexperienced" team, I can just about do anything as long as my team listens and still win. HMG rush or no HMG rush, the only difference was how long it would take to finish you off. And for those of you who werent in that game, you need to realize this was a pitiful alien team. (2)nsplayer COM'ing could have won against them. If I ever do play there again, you can be sure I'll drag it out as long as I can until you F4.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->again, do not misunderstand my use of this word cos I know some cretin will<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are getting yourself confused with a tactic and exploit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's funny, all this HMG talk and nobody complains about minespamming? Or is that just a universally accepted hatred and therefore doesn't need to be talked about anymore? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Three games this past week, all it takes is one lucky Marine to build one Armory then plant 40 mines near the starting hive to make a nice safe bulwark to win. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
ThinGLord of wub and vlaaiJoin Date: 2003-04-11Member: 15400Members, Reinforced - Supporter
edited April 2003
Agree with ya Roo But be honest, maybe it happens when you aren't actually on the server but I have seen an admin or two do it as well, be it as a joke, or a payback on a previous round I don't know... but still...
But when I am on your server noone seems to care about ending the game in 5 secs with a skulk rush Sorry but it's the truth I'm always saying let the IP live or let this live or let that live, and the others rush the heebeejeebies out of the rines...
It goes for the rines as for the aliens Try to make a fun game, you'll be happier losing a terrific match than winning within 25 secs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's hilarious when people say this or that marine tactic RUINS THE GAME. It's clear (or should be) that marines are unbalanced in general, but any time anyone mentions it, it sounds like it's only ONE PARTICULAR tactic that is unbalanced.
Get it through your head: it's the entire marine model. It doesn't matter if they use the HMG rush, jetpack control, jetpack rush, siege rush, spawn camp, or whatever other strategy ticks you off. Any way you cut it, marines should win with a competant team. Especially now that clan strats are commonly used on pubs. Aliens on pubs will never be coordinated enough to counter any one of these strategies. You're being a total moron if you expect people to play the game to amuse you.
Eh the way I see it, newbies whine, veterans adapt. You can either cry, or find a way to counter the strategy and inform your teammates of it. the NS community is definately in a terrible deficit of those who try and actually counter a particular strategy, rather than cry about it.
But feel free to do whatever you want. Just be sure to keep a lot of kleenex next to you unless you feel like changing.
This is getting really pathetic. Of those who posted in here, only Roob, Jojo and me were in that game. So please don't assume anything. To be honest, our marine team would have definately lost that game because most of the alien players were just very good. We could not have won this in a 'normal' manner, I am quite sure (only if I ramboed their hives and killed all of them, but that would be boring as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Anyway, this is not of any importance, as the criticism is not due to the win.
Please, let's juts drop this, it is leading us nowhere. Jojo, don't feel personally insulted because you couldn't have known that we don't like short, imbalanced games on that server. I would like to play with you again and have a decent game some time... But let's not enter the "skill fray".
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Apr 29 2003, 01:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Apr 29 2003, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, Monsieur, HMGs are possible in 5 minutes on 1.1, but they are incredibly risky. You're basically banking the entire game on one or two HMGs. Of course, the aliens could have all three hives in that time if they aren't pressured. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bah. There you go talking terms of theoreticals again. Theeeooorrrreeetttiiically, you could have HMG's in 3 minutes. If you didn't get IP's, only got an Armory, then upgraded it for 3 minutes, and bought the 1 or maybe 2 HMG's you could afford at this point. If you had managed to stay alive all this time. It was so risky and unlikely that I chalked it up to impossible.
haha silly MonsE. Yea now so basically all you need to do to counter this 1.1 HMG rush when you build no ips is a sucessful skulk rush. i guess we wont be seeing to many HMG rushes then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Apr 30 2003, 01:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Apr 30 2003, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'll modify my statement: 'It's so improbable as to be considered impossible'. Like the odds of Silverfox getting a date, for an everyday analogy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hey, let's not attack silverfox here, were all adults...
<!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+Apr 30 2003, 07:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Apr 30 2003, 07:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Eh the way I see it, newbies whine, veterans adapt. You can either cry, or find a way to counter the strategy and inform your teammates of it. the NS community is definately in a terrible deficit of those who try and actually counter a particular strategy, rather than cry about it.
But feel free to do whatever you want. Just be sure to keep a lot of kleenex next to you unless you feel like changing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly.
<!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+Apr 30 2003, 08:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac @ Apr 30 2003, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is getting really pathetic. Of those who posted in here, only Roob, Jojo and me were in that game. So please don't assume anything. To be honest, our marine team would have definately lost that game because most of the alien players were just very good. We could not have won this in a 'normal' manner, I am quite sure (only if I ramboed their hives and killed all of them, but that would be boring as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Anyway, this is not of any importance, as the criticism is not due to the win.
Please, let's juts drop this, it is leading us nowhere. Jojo, don't feel personally insulted because you couldn't have known that we don't like short, imbalanced games on that server. I would like to play with you again and have a decent game some time... But let's not enter the "skill fray". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know you had fun being a part of that dude, dont even try.
<!--QuoteBegin--Chadseh+May 1 2003, 08:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chadseh @ May 1 2003, 08:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Eh the way I see it, newbies whine, veterans adapt. "
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeap. It's the "Bad sport" attitude in my opinion. If he throws sand into my face, Ill throw glass shards at him. That works for dirty bar brawls, it shouldn't be the prevailing attitude in a sport - or a competitive game. But that obviously has a large a chance of coming true as people turning not greedy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No matter what game happens we will probably see a game where many or all old "rush tactics" will not be impossible, but be harder. And more risky. I hope so. I dont want to punish certain tactics bordering on the exploitative into oblivion, but want them moderated so we can have less whining and more adaption in the proper sense. Ie. coming up with an interesting counter. What is the counter to a HMG rush? You can hope for some superior skulking, but thats not as much a strategic or tactic counter as a desperate defense.
Well, I should have guessed it would have been jojo or critical who misunderstood my use of the term "exploit". Jojo calls me a no skill muppet on the forums, critical calls me one on private message. /methinks they're having some strange love affair...
I'd like to sum up with immortal words of eggmac: <!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is getting really pathetic. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and I don't want to be a part of it any longer. If you guys really believe you're "all that and then some", fine, go tell everyone else on whose servers you play, but you now know the rules on my server. Neither of you have any idea what the skill level of the regulars on my server is, jojo becuase you only played there for a few games and critical because as far as I can tell you've never played there. ****This is my last post on this topic**** as you still don't understand the point I'm making and instead want to turn it into some flame war abouts skills.
Tempting as it is to leave of a derogatory note, that would indeed be pathetic, so I hope you both find happiness, and don't disrupt too many people along the way.
Good day to you all.
Roo
PS thank you Flayra and MonsE for lightening the mood <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
ThinGLord of wub and vlaaiJoin Date: 2003-04-11Member: 15400Members, Reinforced - Supporter
edited May 2003
Amen to that Roo <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
[/edit]
If you take the server down I'll kill you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I wouldn't have anywhere to spend my time <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Chadseh+May 1 2003, 01:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chadseh @ May 1 2003, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Eh the way I see it, newbies whine, veterans adapt. "
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hrmm which server side mod gives out sticks and gattling guns to their team? Because unless its a hidden a cheat I do not recall it being seen in NS.
The point of that statement is that newbies blame everyone else other than themselves for getting owned. Veterans accept responsibility and find a way to counter that strat, then inform their teammates of such a strat to cut down on kleenex use.
I feel sorry for those people who spend a lot of time playing this game, only to cry about it on the forums, it seems to me either they
A) Like crying and having support on the forums
B) Hope the game changes to fit their needs.
I do agree however that the JP/HMG rush or even just an LMG rush is virtually uncounterable if you have sub-par players on your team. But why beat on a dead horse and cry about it on the forums? This makes no sense considering something has been done about it for 1.1.
<!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+May 1 2003, 07:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ May 1 2003, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point of that statement is that newbies blame everyone else other than themselves for getting owned. Veterans accept responsibility and find a way to counter that strat, then inform their teammates of such a strat to cut down on kleenex use.
I feel sorry for those people who spend a lot of time playing this game, only to cry about it on the forums, it seems to me either they
A) Like crying and having support on the forums
B) Hope the game changes to fit their needs.
I do agree however that the JP/HMG rush or even just an LMG rush is virtually uncounterable if you have sub-par players on your team. But why beat on a dead horse and cry about it on the forums? This makes no sense considering something has been done about it for 1.1.
Less crying, more adapting please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen! More NS, less crying!
<!--QuoteBegin--Jojoshua+Apr 30 2003, 05:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Apr 30 2003, 05:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One more point about the JP/HMG rush: Yes, it's possible to stop it, but that's not the point. The point is that aliens have to go through such considerable pains to stop it, it requires FAR MORE organization than the JP rush, and for a game of equal skill levels, the marines will win. THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually 'buddy', seeing as it tkes much longer to get those 3 DCs than the JP you're wrong.
As he said, this isn't a place to post strategies, it's just a discussion. Go post your magic-end-all-kill-all strategy in Kharaa strategy and get laughed at. Go click on any one of the threas about JP/HMG rushes and they are VERY involved.
<!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+May 1 2003, 08:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ May 1 2003, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Jojoshua+Apr 30 2003, 05:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Apr 30 2003, 05:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One more point about the JP/HMG rush: Yes, it's possible to stop it, but that's not the point. The point is that aliens have to go through such considerable pains to stop it, it requires FAR MORE organization than the JP rush, and for a game of equal skill levels, the marines will win. THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually 'buddy', seeing as it tkes much longer to get those 3 DCs than the JP you're wrong.
As he said, this isn't a place to post strategies, it's just a discussion. Go post your magic-end-all-kill-all strategy in Kharaa strategy and get laughed at. Go click on any one of the threas about JP/HMG rushes and they are VERY involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm.. I'm not sure where you are getting your information.
Firstly, he wasn't talking about JPs (which btw you can have 3 DCs long before jetpacks) Seconldy, he's right.. HMG rush limits the marines in terms of mobility and if the marines are stupid, they are easily ambushed.
And Lastly, he doesn't care if the members of this forum laugh at him. Jojoshua's only concern is winning games, not winning the favor of a few unhappy people who can't even read a post correctly.
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+May 1 2003, 04:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ May 1 2003, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+May 1 2003, 08:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ May 1 2003, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Jojoshua+Apr 30 2003, 05:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Apr 30 2003, 05:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--killswitch1968+Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (killswitch1968 @ Apr 30 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One more point about the JP/HMG rush: Yes, it's possible to stop it, but that's not the point. The point is that aliens have to go through such considerable pains to stop it, it requires FAR MORE organization than the JP rush, and for a game of equal skill levels, the marines will win. THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually 'buddy', seeing as it tkes much longer to get those 3 DCs than the JP you're wrong.
As he said, this isn't a place to post strategies, it's just a discussion. Go post your magic-end-all-kill-all strategy in Kharaa strategy and get laughed at. Go click on any one of the threas about JP/HMG rushes and they are VERY involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm.. I'm not sure where you are getting your information.
Firstly, he wasn't talking about JPs (which btw you can have 3 DCs long before jetpacks) Seconldy, he's right.. HMG rush limits the marines in terms of mobility and if the marines are stupid, they are easily ambushed.
And Lastly, he doesn't care if the members of this forum laugh at him. Jojoshua's only concern is winning games, not winning the favor of a few unhappy people who can't even read a post correctly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's probably why Jojo is "incompatible" with Roobubba's server. He should stick to clan games, there he will get all the satisfaction he desires in pwnage. There are people who savour the process, not the result. Such as having a rich new, different game you lost instead of ANOTHER victory from a mindnumbingly predictable hive rush 5 minute game. In chess there's isn't one particular "pawn rush" strategy that wins 7 out of 10 matches. Thats probably why chess is still popular.
Oh sigh. Is it impossible to have a discussion here without someone cutting in and posting usless comments about how we are all "crying"?
This whole "if your not loving it, then your crying" analogy is pathetic, and ironic, since the person using the statement only makes themselves look imature, with this oversimplified, young, terminology.
Less crying? how about we work and improve a <i>community-based</i> mod? or would you prefer;
"I LOVE the game its AMAZING nowt is wrong with it please dont BRING out ANY more patches tbh!"
Stop using silly extremes and create some useful arguments.
Comments
All im going to say is that the HMG rush I did in 1.04 wont work in 1.1.
Your taunting makes me cry the tears of a thousand rivers.
Eugh, I hate attitudes like this. You have that schoolboy mentality, where you have to try and find gaps in common-sense rules, trying to prove yourself to be intelligent.
Isn't it enough to say "Don't do anything stupid"? Do you NEED to have 1,2,3 rules to stop you making a prat of yourself?
Why are you starting with personal and unjustified insults now?
Apparently Jojo's team was so good that its victory was inevitable. For some strange reason, he is being asked to delay the inevitable for a long time to suit certain individuals' peculiar interpretation of fun. He is saying that he will do just that. I see no immaturity in that reaction. It's not his fault that the game is broken.
Bye bye HMG rush!
The guy a few posts above here says "Apparently Jojo's team was so good that its victory was inevitable."
This simply wasn't true. If you know nothing about anything (and you've proved here you know nothing about this at least), then keep your nose out of other people's business tbh.
The attitude that jojo has displayed here by saying the above quote is quite beyond belief.
I have already made it quite clear WHY I dislike hmg rushes, whatever team I'm on. The fact is, even a team of complete muppets COULD have walked in there with the hmgs and shot the hive, the base defense was poor. I'm not trying to relive the entire 5 minutes out here but it seems that others ARE. This isn't about specifics - getting defenses up MAY have bought enough time for us to take them down, but then they WOULD have lost very soon afterwards. (I'd just built the first DC and S3ph had just built the second, and if you think Shadow-Corps S3phiroth is a bad player then you do indeed know nothing about online gaming).
What IS relevant is the attitude that the game WILL BE 5 mins an no more from the start, which is what jojo did when he commanded the game.
You think you can win against the same team using other strategies (those that don't rely on a game imbalance), fine try it. We all know that before carapace, even the best skulks get (comparatively) owned by even unupgraded marines. Once those towers come up though, I guarantee you'll be the one getting pwned sat in your comfy comm chair, with your attitude that you will always win, whatever strategy you use. Here's a flash, You won't, especially not against a team with the calibre of the regulars on my server.
You've admitted yourself that strategy won't work in 1.1 - why do you THINK it won't work in 1.1??? Maybe because it's an imbalance, hence "exploitable" (though I use this term reservedly) and only results in annoying games for most decent players around.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
It's not his fault that the game is broken<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, but it IS his fault for "exploiting" (again, do not misunderstand my use of this word cos I know some cretin will) that brokenness.
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Why are you starting with personal and unjustified insults now?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe he's said that because of JoJo's "I am teh winn4r" attitude.
What bugs me is you STILL fail to see that by choosing a 5 minute game you're spoiling the game for everyone else.
<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Succeed or fail, the tactic results in a rubbish game.</span> </span>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are getting yourself confused with a tactic and exploit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Roo wins TBH.
Three games this past week, all it takes is one lucky Marine to build one Armory then plant 40 mines near the starting hive to make a nice safe bulwark to win. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
But be honest, maybe it happens when you aren't actually on the server but I have seen an admin or two do it as well, be it as a joke, or a payback on a previous round I don't know... but still...
But when I am on your server noone seems to care about ending the game in 5 secs with a skulk rush
Sorry but it's the truth
I'm always saying let the IP live or let this live or let that live, and the others rush the heebeejeebies out of the rines...
It goes for the rines as for the aliens
Try to make a fun game, you'll be happier losing a terrific match than winning within 25 secs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Get it through your head: it's the entire marine model. It doesn't matter if they use the HMG rush, jetpack control, jetpack rush, siege rush, spawn camp, or whatever other strategy ticks you off. Any way you cut it, marines should win with a competant team. Especially now that clan strats are commonly used on pubs. Aliens on pubs will never be coordinated enough to counter any one of these strategies. You're being a total moron if you expect people to play the game to amuse you.
But feel free to do whatever you want. Just be sure to keep a lot of kleenex next to you unless you feel like changing.
Of those who posted in here, only Roob, Jojo and me were in that game. So please don't assume anything. To be honest, our marine team would have definately lost that game because most of the alien players were just very good. We could not have won this in a 'normal' manner, I am quite sure (only if I ramboed their hives and killed all of them, but that would be boring as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Anyway, this is not of any importance, as the criticism is not due to the win.
Please, let's juts drop this, it is leading us nowhere. Jojo, don't feel personally insulted because you couldn't have known that we don't like short, imbalanced games on that server.
I would like to play with you again and have a decent game some time...
But let's not enter the "skill fray".
Bah. There you go talking terms of theoreticals again. Theeeooorrrreeetttiiically, you could have HMG's in 3 minutes. If you didn't get IP's, only got an Armory, then upgraded it for 3 minutes, and bought the 1 or maybe 2 HMG's you could afford at this point. If you had managed to stay alive all this time. It was so risky and unlikely that I chalked it up to impossible.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll modify my statement: 'It's so improbable as to be considered impossible'. Like the odds of Silverfox getting a date, for an everyday analogy.
Roofle.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey, let's not attack silverfox here, were all adults...
(I think)
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But feel free to do whatever you want. Just be sure to keep a lot of kleenex next to you unless you feel like changing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
Of those who posted in here, only Roob, Jojo and me were in that game. So please don't assume anything. To be honest, our marine team would have definately lost that game because most of the alien players were just very good. We could not have won this in a 'normal' manner, I am quite sure (only if I ramboed their hives and killed all of them, but that would be boring as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Anyway, this is not of any importance, as the criticism is not due to the win.
Please, let's juts drop this, it is leading us nowhere. Jojo, don't feel personally insulted because you couldn't have known that we don't like short, imbalanced games on that server.
I would like to play with you again and have a decent game some time...
But let's not enter the "skill fray". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know you had fun being a part of that dude, dont even try.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey, let's not attack silverfox here, were all adults... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh ..
hes right
/me shrugs
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeap. It's the "Bad sport" attitude in my opinion. If he throws sand into my face, Ill throw glass shards at him. That works for dirty bar brawls, it shouldn't be the prevailing attitude in a sport - or a competitive game. But that obviously has a large a chance of coming true as people turning not greedy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No matter what game happens we will probably see a game where many or all old "rush tactics" will not be impossible, but be harder. And more risky. I hope so. I dont want to punish certain tactics bordering on the exploitative into oblivion, but want them moderated so we can have less whining and more adaption in the proper sense. Ie. coming up with an interesting counter. What is the counter to a HMG rush? You can hope for some superior skulking, but thats not as much a strategic or tactic counter as a desperate defense.
I'd like to sum up with immortal words of eggmac:
<!--QuoteBegin--eggmac+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (eggmac)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is getting really pathetic. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and I don't want to be a part of it any longer.
If you guys really believe you're "all that and then some", fine, go tell everyone else on whose servers you play, but you now know the rules on my server.
Neither of you have any idea what the skill level of the regulars on my server is, jojo becuase you only played there for a few games and critical because as far as I can tell you've never played there.
****This is my last post on this topic**** as you still don't understand the point I'm making and instead want to turn it into some flame war abouts skills.
Tempting as it is to leave of a derogatory note, that would indeed be pathetic, so I hope you both find happiness, and don't disrupt too many people along the way.
Good day to you all.
Roo
PS thank you Flayra and MonsE for lightening the mood <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
[/edit]
If you take the server down I'll kill you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wouldn't have anywhere to spend my time <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hrmm which server side mod gives out sticks and gattling guns to their team? Because unless its a hidden a cheat I do not recall it being seen in NS.
The point of that statement is that newbies blame everyone else other than themselves for getting owned. Veterans accept responsibility and find a way to counter that strat, then inform their teammates of such a strat to cut down on kleenex use.
I feel sorry for those people who spend a lot of time playing this game, only to cry about it on the forums, it seems to me either they
A) Like crying and having support on the forums
B) Hope the game changes to fit their needs.
I do agree however that the JP/HMG rush or even just an LMG rush is virtually uncounterable if you have sub-par players on your team. But why beat on a dead horse and cry about it on the forums? This makes no sense considering something has been done about it for 1.1.
Less crying, more adapting please.
I feel sorry for those people who spend a lot of time playing this game, only to cry about it on the forums, it seems to me either they
A) Like crying and having support on the forums
B) Hope the game changes to fit their needs.
I do agree however that the JP/HMG rush or even just an LMG rush is virtually uncounterable if you have sub-par players on your team. But why beat on a dead horse and cry about it on the forums? This makes no sense considering something has been done about it for 1.1.
Less crying, more adapting please.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen! More NS, less crying!
THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually 'buddy', seeing as it tkes much longer to get those 3 DCs than the JP you're wrong.
As he said, this isn't a place to post strategies, it's just a discussion. Go post your magic-end-all-kill-all strategy in Kharaa strategy and get laughed at. Go click on any one of the threas about JP/HMG rushes and they are VERY involved.
THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually 'buddy', seeing as it tkes much longer to get those 3 DCs than the JP you're wrong.
As he said, this isn't a place to post strategies, it's just a discussion. Go post your magic-end-all-kill-all strategy in Kharaa strategy and get laughed at. Go click on any one of the threas about JP/HMG rushes and they are VERY involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.. I'm not sure where you are getting your information.
Firstly, he wasn't talking about JPs (which btw you can have 3 DCs long before jetpacks)
Seconldy, he's right.. HMG rush limits the marines in terms of mobility and if the marines are stupid, they are easily ambushed.
And Lastly, he doesn't care if the members of this forum laugh at him. Jojoshua's only concern is winning games, not winning the favor of a few unhappy people who can't even read a post correctly.
THAT is imbalance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually buddy, to counter a no upgrade HMG rush, all you need is lvl 3 cara and an ambush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually 'buddy', seeing as it tkes much longer to get those 3 DCs than the JP you're wrong.
As he said, this isn't a place to post strategies, it's just a discussion. Go post your magic-end-all-kill-all strategy in Kharaa strategy and get laughed at. Go click on any one of the threas about JP/HMG rushes and they are VERY involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.. I'm not sure where you are getting your information.
Firstly, he wasn't talking about JPs (which btw you can have 3 DCs long before jetpacks)
Seconldy, he's right.. HMG rush limits the marines in terms of mobility and if the marines are stupid, they are easily ambushed.
And Lastly, he doesn't care if the members of this forum laugh at him. Jojoshua's only concern is winning games, not winning the favor of a few unhappy people who can't even read a post correctly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's probably why Jojo is "incompatible" with Roobubba's server. He should stick to clan games, there he will get all the satisfaction he desires in pwnage. There are people who savour the process, not the result. Such as having a rich new, different game you lost instead of ANOTHER victory from a mindnumbingly predictable hive rush 5 minute game. In chess there's isn't one particular "pawn rush" strategy that wins 7 out of 10 matches. Thats probably why chess is still popular.
Oh sigh. Is it impossible to have a discussion here without someone cutting in and posting usless comments about how we are all "crying"?
This whole "if your not loving it, then your crying" analogy is pathetic, and ironic, since the person using the statement only makes themselves look imature, with this oversimplified, young, terminology.
Less crying? how about we work and improve a <i>community-based</i> mod? or would you prefer;
"I LOVE the game its AMAZING nowt is wrong with it please dont BRING out ANY more patches tbh!"
Stop using silly extremes and create some useful arguments.