<!--QuoteBegin--Immacolata+May 1 2003, 09:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Immacolata @ May 1 2003, 09:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are people who savour the process, not the result. Such as having a rich new, different game you lost instead of ANOTHER victory from a mindnumbingly predictable hive rush 5 minute game. In chess there's isn't one particular "pawn rush" strategy that wins 7 out of 10 matches. Thats probably why chess is still popular.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You act as if Clanners don't enjoy playing the game. I personally enjoy perfection of the process and the result it achieves. Please quit with your elitist "playing the rich, new, different game" crap. You know that a load of horse ****.
I'm growing tired of you being intolerant of the views of clanners. I tried to PM you and ask you to remove your anti-clan statements and you still insist on making them. Please have a little love for clanners....
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+May 1 2003, 09:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ May 1 2003, 09:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->not ANOTHER pubber vs clanners debate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that one has been hammered even more than the whining about HMG rush (or any rush for that matter).
I have a lot of love for clanners considering some of the best CS players in the country live a couple doors down (or virtually live, there's a permanent LAN).
I still want to get rid of the JP/HMG rush because of it's unbalanced proportions and near inability to counter. For one, you have to KNOW they're doing it, because if you set up for a JP/HMG rush with OCs and DCs instead of grabbing res nodes then you're gimping yourself for later on and then could just as easily get some TFs in both hives. Scouts do a good bit of helping in preventing this but if they just send off a rambo or two to "secure" the hives and then turn around and rush while you build up a hive that doesn't exist you're screwed. In the same light, if you prepare for a JP/HMG rush you'll be starved on res for saving for the second hive and the upgraded marine weapons can easily take the unprotected (or nearly so) hives that aren't the aliens main.
im with roobubba on this, the current 5 minute games are disappointing to say the least. not everyone has the luxury of playing whenever they like, so they log on for a quick game and it ends up a lot quicker than they expected. i think its better to slowly advance into each hive and force the aliens back using all the resources at your disposal. this feels (to me anyway) like a realistic struggle for supremacy. and at the end of these mammoth rounds everyone is always gg+gg+gg+gg+gg+gg+ instead of the usual lame+crap+ffs+ that we see now.
<!--QuoteBegin--blue2k+May 1 2003, 10:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (blue2k @ May 1 2003, 10:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->im with roobubba on this, the current 5 minute games are disappointing to say the least. not everyone has the luxury of playing whenever they like, so they log on for a quick game and it ends up a lot quicker than they expected. i think its better to slowly advance into each hive and force the aliens back using all the resources at your disposal. this feels (to me anyway) like a realistic struggle for supremacy. and at the end of these mammoth rounds everyone is always gg+gg+gg+gg+gg+gg+ instead of the usual lame+crap+ffs+ that we see now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In that case, you should probably try a new server. Doesn't sound like your current server is a representative NS experience.
<!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+May 1 2003, 07:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ May 1 2003, 07:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Chadseh+May 1 2003, 01:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chadseh @ May 1 2003, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Eh the way I see it, newbies whine, veterans adapt. "
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hrmm which server side mod gives out sticks and gattling guns to their team? Because unless its a hidden a cheat I do not recall it being seen in NS.
The point of that statement is that newbies blame everyone else other than themselves for getting owned. Veterans accept responsibility and find a way to counter that strat, then inform their teammates of such a strat to cut down on kleenex use.
I feel sorry for those people who spend a lot of time playing this game, only to cry about it on the forums, it seems to me either they
A) Like crying and having support on the forums
B) Hope the game changes to fit their needs.
I do agree however that the JP/HMG rush or even just an LMG rush is virtually uncounterable if you have sub-par players on your team. But why beat on a dead horse and cry about it on the forums? This makes no sense considering something has been done about it for 1.1.
Less crying, more adapting please. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The "gatling vs. pointy stick" argument is valid in NS. All other factors being equal marines do have an advantage over aliens. Used correctly, and taking into account the slow respawn speed of aliens, this advantage can rapidly mess up the game for the aliens (LMG rush before they have carapace). If you can kill many aliens (and it's not a big problem if many of your team die too, just get multiple IPs), then go spawncamp a hive, you can win. I've spawncamped as marine once, no prior experience with it, at about 15 fps, and alone. Found a good spot in the viaduct hive and started the massacre. Most of them died before they could move. the only reason I died was running out of ammo.
Countering the HMG rush strategy? Yes, sure, you can build defence in the hive to delay them enough, and hope the extra time allows you to kill them. This short term defence is not a viable counter if you want to win, because you spend lots of resources on things that are only useful if the marines attack the hive, while the marines spent resources on things that will be useful everywhere. It's trading quick defeat for slow defeat. Additionally, having to keep skulks in the hive as defence weakens your position on the rest of the map, again. You could say the same is true for the marines, they also have a base to defend, no? Well, not really. Depending on the map, the marine base can be defended by just one marine against multiple skulks, especially if mines are also used. And while aliens really need their hive, marines do not need their base that badly. If the early HMG rush goes well, you can afford to lose the base, just kill the hive and and defence chambers, then survive until the remaining aliens die.
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+May 1 2003, 10:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ May 1 2003, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In that case, you should probably try a new server. Doesn't sound like your current server is a representative NS experience. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually, in my experience, most games are like that. im an ex-reg on **** brits, and i also used to play on lyndaks ns muckabout and i even played twice on roo's server (got my arse kicked, curse it all!) and in most games one side or the other has just rushed in the first ten or fifteen minutes of the game, winning easily. obviously, not all games are like this, but i also tend to despise short games. i also despise the hmg, not because its lame (fade vs hmger = dead hmger nine times out of ten), but because its hugely overused. one of the major strengths of the marines is their versatility with weapons, which is why id rather have a shotgunner watching my back than a spray 'n prayer with a hmg.
Oh sigh. Is it impossible to have a discussion here without someone cutting in and posting usless comments about how we are all "crying"?
This whole "if your not loving it, then your crying" analogy is pathetic, and ironic, since the person using the statement only makes themselves look imature, with this oversimplified, young, terminology.
Less crying? how about we work and improve a <i>community-based</i> mod? or would you prefer;
"I LOVE the game its AMAZING nowt is wrong with it please dont BRING out ANY more patches tbh!"
Stop using silly extremes and create some useful arguments. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Never did I say that you had to "love it" you just have to deal with it. Some people prefer to talk about it and still let it happen to them, others wish to change their style of play do come up with an effective counter for it.
and how am I being immature when I accept responsibility for when I die or if my team loses. Adapting is about admitting something in your game needs to be changed, and it does indeed take time to change. The way I see it is by whinning about something that is going to be changed when 1.1 comes out is not only worthless, but immature. (MOMMY I WANT MY NO HMG RUSH NOW!!! OR IM GONNA TAKE DOWN MY SERVER!).
What you should be sighing about is the people who blame others for their own shortcommings.
Plz dont "whine", just adapt <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
and I apologize for to those who took offense to my first post, I dont want anyone to get all pissy. But as I said, you can either whine or adapt. Some people choose whinning because it is easier than adapting, and does not take much talent. Adapting is a thing that happens over time, and requires practice of breaking old habbits, or thinking of new tactics, hence a lot of people do not do it because it requires some effort.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(MOMMY I WANT MY NO HMG RUSH NOW!!! OR IM GONNA TAKE DOWN MY SERVER!).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well thats a mature way to express people being immature...
By posting over and over about how people should adapt and not whine are you not yourself whining already? I sense a thread nuclear meltdown in progress...
umm I'm not whinning, I just have no respect for people that give up because something is not in thier favor. I personally do not care if these people do not adapt, but I would like to see the community as a whole learn to deal with whats in front of them now, instead of writing on the forums about how they got destroyed.
Actually i'm done after this post, I made my points, people just refute them by calling me immature, so whatever, you guys continue to discuss about whats going to be change, and i'll continue to figure out ways to counter the new tactics that arise <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorry, but stop whining - 1.1 is in testing and is coming out soon.
In 1.04 straight HMG wasn't even a problem anyways - it was easily dealt with, and was more of a risky strat for marines. JP/hmg on the other hand was imbalanced, but like I said it is fixed in 1.1.
You said this wasn't a thread for people to tell you counters and strategy, as if you've heard and tried them all - I dont think you have =/
"jp and hmg" rushes are the only major gameplay problem with 1.04...
hmg rush is somewhat easy (if you do it right), but when it's combined with another weapon or equipment like shotties or heavy armor then its tougher to fight off. IE: shotty and ha with welder rush is hard to beat, but hardest right now is JP+HMG rush; due to hive 1 aliens all having melee attacks (lerk... bah. who has enough res to go lerk 10 times?)
Comments
You act as if Clanners don't enjoy playing the game. I personally enjoy perfection of the process and the result it achieves.
Please quit with your elitist "playing the rich, new, different game" crap. You know that a load of horse ****.
I'm growing tired of you being intolerant of the views of clanners. I tried to PM you and ask you to remove your anti-clan statements and you still insist on making them. Please have a little love for clanners....
Yeah, that one has been hammered even more than the whining about HMG rush (or any rush for that matter).
I still want to get rid of the JP/HMG rush because of it's unbalanced proportions and near inability to counter. For one, you have to KNOW they're doing it, because if you set up for a JP/HMG rush with OCs and DCs instead of grabbing res nodes then you're gimping yourself for later on and then could just as easily get some TFs in both hives. Scouts do a good bit of helping in preventing this but if they just send off a rambo or two to "secure" the hives and then turn around and rush while you build up a hive that doesn't exist you're screwed. In the same light, if you prepare for a JP/HMG rush you'll be starved on res for saving for the second hive and the upgraded marine weapons can easily take the unprotected (or nearly so) hives that aren't the aliens main.
In that case, you should probably try a new server. Doesn't sound like your current server is a representative NS experience.
sacreblue
YAY, I love it when people use that phrase.
(Man holding large gun) - ok, I get this gatling, you get the large pointy stick
(Man holding large pointy stick) - Erm, eh?
(Man holding large gun) - DON'T WHINE, adapt <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hrmm which server side mod gives out sticks and gattling guns to their team? Because unless its a hidden a cheat I do not recall it being seen in NS.
The point of that statement is that newbies blame everyone else other than themselves for getting owned. Veterans accept responsibility and find a way to counter that strat, then inform their teammates of such a strat to cut down on kleenex use.
I feel sorry for those people who spend a lot of time playing this game, only to cry about it on the forums, it seems to me either they
A) Like crying and having support on the forums
B) Hope the game changes to fit their needs.
I do agree however that the JP/HMG rush or even just an LMG rush is virtually uncounterable if you have sub-par players on your team. But why beat on a dead horse and cry about it on the forums? This makes no sense considering something has been done about it for 1.1.
Less crying, more adapting please. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The "gatling vs. pointy stick" argument is valid in NS. All other factors being equal marines do have an advantage over aliens. Used correctly, and taking into account the slow respawn speed of aliens, this advantage can rapidly mess up the game for the aliens (LMG rush before they have carapace). If you can kill many aliens (and it's not a big problem if many of your team die too, just get multiple IPs), then go spawncamp a hive, you can win. I've spawncamped as marine once, no prior experience with it, at about 15 fps, and alone. Found a good spot in the viaduct hive and started the massacre. Most of them died before they could move. the only reason I died was running out of ammo.
Countering the HMG rush strategy? Yes, sure, you can build defence in the hive to delay them enough, and hope the extra time allows you to kill them. This short term defence is not a viable counter if you want to win, because you spend lots of resources on things that are only useful if the marines attack the hive, while the marines spent resources on things that will be useful everywhere. It's trading quick defeat for slow defeat. Additionally, having to keep skulks in the hive as defence weakens your position on the rest of the map, again. You could say the same is true for the marines, they also have a base to defend, no? Well, not really. Depending on the map, the marine base can be defended by just one marine against multiple skulks, especially if mines are also used. And while aliens really need their hive, marines do not need their base that badly. If the early HMG rush goes well, you can afford to lose the base, just kill the hive and and defence chambers, then survive until the remaining aliens die.
actually, in my experience, most games are like that. im an ex-reg on **** brits, and i also used to play on lyndaks ns muckabout and i even played twice on roo's server (got my arse kicked, curse it all!) and in most games one side or the other has just rushed in the first ten or fifteen minutes of the game, winning easily. obviously, not all games are like this, but i also tend to despise short games. i also despise the hmg, not because its lame (fade vs hmger = dead hmger nine times out of ten), but because its hugely overused. one of the major strengths of the marines is their versatility with weapons, which is why id rather have a shotgunner watching my back than a spray 'n prayer with a hmg.
Oh sigh. Is it impossible to have a discussion here without someone cutting in and posting usless comments about how we are all "crying"?
This whole "if your not loving it, then your crying" analogy is pathetic, and ironic, since the person using the statement only makes themselves look imature, with this oversimplified, young, terminology.
Less crying? how about we work and improve a <i>community-based</i> mod? or would you prefer;
"I LOVE the game its AMAZING nowt is wrong with it please dont BRING out ANY more patches tbh!"
Stop using silly extremes and create some useful arguments. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never did I say that you had to "love it" you just have to deal with it. Some people prefer to talk about it and still let it happen to them, others wish to change their style of play do come up with an effective counter for it.
and how am I being immature when I accept responsibility for when I die or if my team loses. Adapting is about admitting something in your game needs to be changed, and it does indeed take time to change. The way I see it is by whinning about something that is going to be changed when 1.1 comes out is not only worthless, but immature. (MOMMY I WANT MY NO HMG RUSH NOW!!! OR IM GONNA TAKE DOWN MY SERVER!).
What you should be sighing about is the people who blame others for their own shortcommings.
Plz dont "whine", just adapt <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
and I apologize for to those who took offense to my first post, I dont want anyone to get all pissy. But as I said, you can either whine or adapt. Some people choose whinning because it is easier than adapting, and does not take much talent. Adapting is a thing that happens over time, and requires practice of breaking old habbits, or thinking of new tactics, hence a lot of people do not do it because it requires some effort.
Well thats a mature way to express people being immature...
In 1.04 straight HMG wasn't even a problem anyways - it was easily dealt with, and was more of a risky strat for marines. JP/hmg on the other hand was imbalanced, but like I said it is fixed in 1.1.
You said this wasn't a thread for people to tell you counters and strategy, as if you've heard and tried them all - I dont think you have =/
hmg rush is somewhat easy (if you do it right), but when it's combined with another weapon or equipment like shotties or heavy armor then its tougher to fight off. IE: shotty and ha with welder rush is hard to beat, but hardest right now is JP+HMG rush; due to hive 1 aliens all having melee attacks (lerk... bah. who has enough res to go lerk 10 times?)
*Click*