Planned Balance-change: Instant-Upgrades when you Spawn

2»

Comments

  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Maybe everyone would be happier if you made it an NS2+ option.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Maybe everyone would be happier if you made it an NS2+ option.
    How would this solve the problem. This is like the toggle to disable health bars, Yea I can do it, but others still have that giant advantage.
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 258 Advanced user
    Do we really need to make it harder for marines to push hives effectively given what everyone already knows about how typical pub experiences go? This would be a significant buff to alien defensive efficacy.

    Promote the 'evolve last upgrade' feature rather than completely changing how spawn + evolution timings work during hive pushes.
    In this situation the noob being spawn killed will be more upset than the noob being killed for being in the hive as a marine.
    Yeah, of course. This is good. It's frustrating to be killed in your hive when you weren't expecting it. Don't let marines into your hive. Aliens have every advantage when it comes to mobility and sensory feedback / communication.

  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 258 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    Blrg wrote: »
    I don't care much about this change.

    But I would strongly suggest to make gorge tunnels always do a constant sound. So they could always be heard from a certain (and quite large) distance.

    I know I will get tons of hate for this comment, but the amount of alien wins only due to cheesy tunnels is atrocious and I don't think that should be the case. That souldn't be the aim of a fun and balanced game. And the winrate of the public experience shouldn't be balanced to 50% when a significative chunck of these percentatge are atrocious alien teams finding a way to cheese it out, while marines don't.

    Or maybe the problem is that even though the game was supposed to be 6v6, now it is impossible to find a server with less than 11v11, but the health of every structure in the game is still the same, but with the double number of bile and teeth around

    You might get some hate but it'd be unwarranted. There have been many lengthy discussions about tunnels on Discord. We should really have a new thread for discussing why the current tunnel dynamic is such a huge drag on the game.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Maybe everyone would be happier if you made it an NS2+ option.
    How would this solve the problem. This is like the toggle to disable health bars, Yea I can do it, but others still have that giant advantage.

    That is the joke.
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 387 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    In general I think the instantupgrades are the issue here.

    I like the idea of the sound from a tunnel, but in general it would be useful, that this goes to another thread (and the issue how to not get fucking annoyed when you have tons of tunnels around) by this sound..
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,763 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    There are two issues.
    1. Spawn timings
    2. Strength on spawn

    I agree that this planned change is an alien buff. I do not think it is enough of a buff to matter. Some see this as a significant buff while I see it as a very minor buff.

    I am not sure how I might be convinced otherwise, or how I might change the minds of those who disagree with me. I think this may be in part a different perspective in that more competitive oriented players place more significance on even minor changes.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Nintendows
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,479 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    The less players in the game the more significant the change. If there's 8 v 8 and 4 people push a hive, the extra upgrades can can be enough to get a skulk to a safe place to heal while waiting for more spawns. And can be enough to create an extra bite on a marine. That extra bite could mean the marines lose a shooter they would have had. Losing a shooter means the odds of them losing the fight substantially increase. Having more skulks continue spawning with upgrades exacerbates this. It also reduces the neccesity of lame in hive defense.

    This really isn't about a single marines ability to kill a single skulk in a hive. And it's really just a shift in meta which means the marines have even less options to close a game where they've built an advantage. It's going to add to average game lengths which are already far too high.

    Aliens should have to get through the full straight-line distance a tunnel covers. It's a tunnel.. if it had to exist, which it didn't, it never should have been a phase gate.
    mattji104
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    Nordic wrote: »
    There are two issues.
    1. Spawn timings
    2. Strength on spawn

    I agree that this planned change is an alien buff. I do not think it is enough of a buff to matter. Some see this as a significant buff while I see it as a very minor buff.

    I am not how I might be convinced otherwise, or how I might change the minds of those who disagree with me. I think this may be in part a different perspective in that more competitive oriented players place more significance on even minor changes.

    It is not only about those things. It is again a change that will dumb down the game further, and that sux. Usually you have to choose between the risk of using time and the risk of evolving (because you are so easily killable) versus being instant on the map but without upgrades.

    It is sad to see that game depth gets removed more and more, even though this change might be one of the smaller ones, it still has its impact and in the end it all adds up.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,567 mod
    Handschuh wrote: »
    I like the idea of the sound from a tunnel, but in general it would be useful, that this goes to another thread (and the issue how to not get fucking annoyed when you have tons of tunnels around) by this sound..

    And then suddenly you have aliens letting marines into their hives just so that they can have some closed tunnels silenced :p
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    Handschuh
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    .trixX. wrote: »
    I've played on TTS a few times, and I loved it that I dont have to B > CLick (>Click(>Click)) -> Click all the time. It's very convenient.
    theres a "evolve last upgrade" keybind so u dont have to do this

    Huh. The things you learn here even after years of playing.... thanks dude :D
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 957 Advanced user
    Be careful with that keybind though. I happened to accidently press it and went combat lerk egg.
    return to zero
    .trixX.Nordic
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    Be careful with that keybind though. I happened to accidently press it and went combat lerk egg.

    I imagine the humans shat their pants the very moment... x)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 387 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    Be careful with that keybind though. I happened to accidently press it and went combat lerk egg.
    If you do that with 1 HP then you suddenly have 150 HP for free!

  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members Posts: 1,191 Advanced user
    edited May 2018
    When marines spawn in they spawn with ar and wep upgrades, this can make pushing a marine base harder for sure. It is only fair that aliens benefit from the same advantage imo. Marines come out of the ip ready to defend the base and aliens should spawn from the egg ready to defend.
    AQ-Brainfood
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    When marines spawn in they spawn with ar and wep upgrades, this can make pushing a marine base harder for sure. It is only fair that aliens benefit from the same advantage imo. Marines come out of the ip ready to defend the base and aliens should spawn from the egg ready to defend.

    This assumes that the teams are symmetric... which they are definitely not. Marines are sluggish compared to aliens, if their base is pushed/rushed while most of the players are on the field, it's hard to hold it. Aliens on the other hand can quickly respond to hive attacks.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 1,542 Advanced user
    Do we really need to make it harder for marines to push hives effectively given what everyone already knows about how typical pub experiences go? This would be a significant buff to alien defensive efficacy.

    'Beg your pardon ?

    Maybe the Marines should just be less... dumb. I'm sorry guys but it's reality. Rushing a hive, using hand grenade and GL spamming without friendly fire set to "on" isn't much of a difficulty to be honest. Maybe teaching them "teamwork" will actually work.

    I mean, the marines are supposed to be organized & following orders, while aliens (as an opposite in style) are supposed to be scavengers and such. Today we are in a situation that is quite the opposite. Aliens have to be organized much more than the marines do. Number of gorge at start, lifeforms, etc.

    I'm even advocating for Friendly fire on. So the marines will have to "behave". No bans for teamkill, just a quick kick after 2 to avoid peasants.

    Even if there are many more scenarios than just the so called hive rush; with a consistent organization and teamwork a hive is down in a matter of seconds when it's done properly. whatever you spawn with all upgrades or not.

    ChubbChubbs ???

    Reach me on NS2 forums in :
    Map: Outer Rim Ark and Outer Rim Ark Edge
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 724 Advanced user
    I'm even advocating for Friendly fire on. So the marines will have to "behave". No bans for teamkill, just a quick kick after 2 to avoid peasants.

    This would be a horrible idea!!!

    I remember how much of a nightmare it could be to play CoD back in the day when 3 tk's = kick. It was WAAAAAAAAY too easy for trolls to walk in front of teammates intentionally to get them kicked.

    Despite how much certain people want to ignore it we have a serious problem with trolls in NS2. Giving them tools to grief people with is all this change would do.

    NintendowsKasharicBeigeAlert
  • StupidStupid Join Date: 2018-06-03 Member: 241104Members Posts: 27 Advanced user
    Keep it normal, A random upgrade is just annoying.
    If it chose a particular upgrade it could be annoying too.
    9 out of 10 times you're going to select the same upgrades for that lifeform that you did last time.

    Just have it remember the last upgrade selection for each lifeform. Then players can just choose to upgrade or not...
    and if they want to take longer to swap up the upgrades for that lifeform based on some alternative strategy desired, they still can.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,763 Advanced user
    Stupid wrote: »
    Keep it normal, A random upgrade is just annoying.
    If it chose a particular upgrade it could be annoying too.
    9 out of 10 times you're going to select the same upgrades for that lifeform that you did last time.

    Just have it remember the last upgrade selection for each lifeform. Then players can just choose to upgrade or not...
    and if they want to take longer to swap up the upgrades for that lifeform based on some alternative strategy desired, they still can.

    It does keep the same upgrade if you already selected one. It only gives you a random upgrade if you don't select an upgrade. Rookies often never evolve their upgrades.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • StupidStupid Join Date: 2018-06-03 Member: 241104Members Posts: 27 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Stupid wrote: »
    Keep it normal, A random upgrade is just annoying.
    If it chose a particular upgrade it could be annoying too.
    9 out of 10 times you're going to select the same upgrades for that lifeform that you did last time.

    Just have it remember the last upgrade selection for each lifeform. Then players can just choose to upgrade or not...
    and if they want to take longer to swap up the upgrades for that lifeform based on some alternative strategy desired, they still can.

    It does keep the same upgrade if you already selected one. It only gives you a random upgrade if you don't select an upgrade. Rookies often never evolve their upgrades.

    If it's the mod I played, a lerk upgrade will default the skulk upgrades to what you selected the lerk upgrades to be.

    It would be nice if I could set default upgrades for each lifeform. Then, only changing them when I want to change tactic from my norm.
    Perhaps give newbs the current meta as their default set of upgrades, and
    perhaps also give us a quick envovle current lifeform key...as such to envolve into pre-set upgrades once hatched.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,990 Advanced user
    edited June 2018
    Well since aliens always hatch from eggs as Skulks, shouldn't evolve last upgrades only memorise the upgrade on skulks? From my understanding, it does not record the upgrades on all the life forms yet. Though I know it's a half finished feature.

    Perhaps there could a newbie friendly/safe set of default upgrades pre-selected, eg carapace+adrenaline+aura, that have no impact on the controls.
  • StupidStupid Join Date: 2018-06-03 Member: 241104Members Posts: 27 Advanced user
    Well since aliens always hatch from eggs as Skulks
    Mostly true... but for the commander-purchased eggs.
    Do you recommend those upgrades too? yikes!
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,990 Advanced user
    edited June 2018
    The default upgrade picks were intended for players who are respawning for the first time and did not pick any evolutions. It could be an option that can be opted out from the menu.
    I think it's worth a try, since aliens tend to feel horrible when losing. Marines have a wide range of powerful tools to siege hives (gas grenade, GL, FT, ARC, and Exo), it's usually the march to the hive that is the most difficult. :neutral:
    .trixX.
Sign In or Register to comment.