modding support, multiplayer and a non violent survival game?

turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
Disclaimer:

I had not so much fun playing a video game since years.This game is really exceptionally well made.Finaly a survival game on a water planet.I have waited for that for years and the game totaly delivered, in most areas.Especially the water effects look extremly good and lifelike.I have never in any other game seen watereffects like that.Its a pure joy to jump in.They look only bad if you climb ontop of one of the mountains and see the texture pattern line up to diagonal lines from high above.



Multiplayer:

My first thought towards multiplayer was, that i want to play this game rather alone to get the best possible feeling of isolation.If i had another person constantly on my side then the exploration of the deep see would have been not as scary and intense.For my personaly taste even the story arc with the Sea Emperor Leviathan feels kind of forced and out of place. Having some intelligent creature around you which you can communicate with and which is on your side, works kind of against the feeling of isolation this game creates so well. So i personaly wouldnt have mind if the story arc about the Sea Emperor would be optional and she would not apear in the ending of the game.

But then i realized that a optional multiplayer mode wouldnt hurt that experience at all. I still could play it in singleplayermode and after i got bored of singleplayer i could try to build a base with my friends together. But i think on the long run multiplayer would only be interesting if you could also play against each other. Like 2 teams trying to find the location of the other teams base and try to destroy it(like in some minecraft mods).

So that brings me to the real thing which holds this game back (in my mind), even when its overall a great game:



You cant build a 100% non violent survival game:

We as humans feel mostly alive if we experience danger in some sort(look at all the action or adventure movies). And there is no real danger without violence,at least in some way.

You cant build a 100% non violent survival game about the exploration of a hostile and dangerouse world filled with predators who want to attack you.Thats basically a paradox/logical contradiction on its own (like jumping in the water without getting wet), even subnautica has a knive in it and the enemy creatures try to attack you. I think this game takes this whole idea of a non violent video game way to far,even for a pg 13 product. Even in super mario bros you can kill your enemys. But in this game you have to knive a stalker for an entire minute and then it starts to rotate around its axis in a weird way, which should probably indicate that it is dizzy and only if you knive it further after a very long time it finaly dies. This whole process of not really beeing able to kill the bigger creatuers, or at least creatuers which are your size fast, has taken me imediately out of the imersion, because its just not realistic or fun.

And thats where my general problem(well its not really a problem maybe rather a slight disliking of this aspect) with the game is.I know this game is ment to be a pg 13 game to maximize the target group. And therefor allmost all the creatures have cute or dorky looking human face expersions like you can see in this stalker image: http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Stalker?file=Stalker_Fauna.png so that the kids can bound and relate better to those creatures.And the difficulty is very easy, so that you can avoid most enemy attacks easily and the one which you cant avoid do normaly very little damge(with very few exceptions only).Even the leviathans do not see you most of the time, even then when you are really close to them as long as you dont swim directly into their face you can mostly very easy sneak pass them.And when you have realized that, then this game starts to get pointless.Because if you can outplay almost 100% of the dangers and enemy creatures with little to no effort, then there is just not anymore a real sense of danger or risk vs reward/high stakes and the suvrival experience becomes very shallow.

So overall its a greate game but i feel this game is hold back by its extremly low difficulty and the aproach that you dont have any weapons at all beside the knive, not even a harpoon gun or bow on the islands. I mean what is the difference between killing a crap spider with a knive or a bow or killing a fish with a knive or a harpoon gun, beside of that combat is far more annoying and tedious to do, if you have to close combat knive a creature 100 times to death instead of shooting at it. If you could harpoon the bone shark creatures then gameplay around those creatuers could be way more fun and complex instead of kniving them and then hoping that they run away.Or turning constatnly the light of your seamoth on and out like a stroboscope in a dance club. Sure this game lies its emphasis more on avoidng danger and running away then engaging the danger.But again if you can avoid the danger as easy as in this game, then the whole survival aspect becomes very shallow and meaningless.

Conclusion:

If this game had modding support and everyone could mod the already great game in a way that suits his or her taste and an additional hard mode (well if the game had modding support you could mod a hard mode anyways) then it could be just as succsessfull as minecraft was, but without this ingredient the game will stay way behind of its possibilitys even in terms of financial succsess. Sure it will make probably a good amount of money but it could make so much more money (minecraft dimensions of money), if it just would use its entire potential.They are wasting alot of potential here.
Post edited by turtlefrog on
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Comments

  • garathgarath TexasMembers Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Posts: 923 Advanced user
    The previous game for this company is the first person shooter Natural Selection 1,2. This game is about exploration and survival. The developers want a clear separation between the two games on the subject of combat. Thus, there will never be more weapons or combat in the game.

    So, yeah. Enemies in the game are generally not that serious a threat. Often, they feel more like decorations than obstacles. I think that is their intent. The game is about exploring the ocean and avoiding any larger creatures.
    SickSix
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    garath wrote: »
    The previous game for this company is the first person shooter Natural Selection 1,2. This game is about exploration and survival. The developers want a clear separation between the two games on the subject of combat. Thus, there will never be more weapons or combat in the game.

    So, yeah. Enemies in the game are generally not that serious a threat. Often, they feel more like decorations than obstacles. I think that is their intent. The game is about exploring the ocean and avoiding any larger creatures.

    Yes and exploration completely without a challenge or obstacle to overcome can feel rather empty and meaningless sometimes.

    Design decisions should always be means for a purpose and not a end in itself.
    Like we renounce any form of combat or real danger in this game to reach purpose x,y.
    But what is the purpose behind this design decision? And does it make the game really better?

    Thats the real question in my eyes:

    Does this game is in any way better or even only equaly good,compared to a game which has combat mechanics in it, by renouncing all forms of real danger and combat. If it is not even equal good compared to when it had combat mechanics in it, then it just makes no sense of doing so.



    Even games with a age rating of 7 years like rainworld have combat mechanics in them like nailing a lizzard with a spearthrow to a wall.
    Subnautica isnt even a game like ABZÛ or Journey where you have no combat at all and rather pure exploaration. In subnautica you have combat and obstacles.But the combat just feels tedious because its so circumcised and the obstacles feel like way to easy to overcome. At least a hard mode with more dangerous creatuers would suit the game well, i think. Best would of cause be modding support. Modding support would be:

    - best for the financial growth of the game, because of the prestige and longevity the game would get from it.
    - best for the player because everybody could take this brilliant core foundation they have developed and expand it in the area of the own interest.

    I really cant understand their standpoint against modding support.If this would be my game then i would be proud if other people are so interested in this game that they are willing to spend all that time and effort to provide mods for it. I mean this kind o creative fan service is what makes ips well known and keeps them alive along time.

  • JackeJacke CalgaryMembers Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Posts: 623 Advanced user
    You're getting your view of Subnautica back to front. Appreciate it for what it is before you start going on about how it should be. How about enjoying the creativity and uniqueness of this gem. Cool it with the negative waves, man!

    It's Unknown Worlds' game and they've designed it this way with lots of feedback from the early-access players for the last 3 years. You make a cookie-cutter same-as-the-rest game and you just go down the deadend street that most of Hollywood is crowding into with film and television. Just get out there, swim, survive, and take joy in the beauty of 4546B. I still remember the first time I dived into Subnautica and I still enjoy the shear beauty and experience after hundreds of hours played.

    You've got more weapons that you think. But this game is like Alien: Isolation. You will not win by killing but instead will likely die if you think you are the mighty slaughterer of everything. Even in the real world with much less dangers, good hunters are careful with how they act, knowing that things can go wrong so easily.

    Subnautica went through a lot of evolution. Proper multiplayer needs to be designed into the start and will always involve tradeoffs in detail and lots of complexity in gameplay. Being a sole survival game UWE decided to work on the single player experience. As well, with the other matters more important, there was no thought of adding a modding system before launch.

    However, some players have created mods. There's a very good one that uses the Steam overlay to put up a map with your position on it. Another puts your ingame PDA on a realworld PDA. There's a few others. And there's a very alpha-state experimental multiplayer mod being worked on by a small number of players, but it's hard going and not very friendly to non-technical users; you join up by figuring out how to install the mod.

    UWE staff have mentioned they'll be looking at adding in better mod support after the launch. Multiplayer may be addressed, but that's more likely for a followon game, because to get that right demands it be included in the design from the start.
    The 'e' is silent. BRING BACK "Great job not dying." !!!
    garath
  • Racer1Racer1 Members Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Posts: 1,595 Advanced user
    UWE checked in a DLL-modding patch on Dec 30 2017. They pulled this a day later when it was determined modding (even the simple stuff they wanted to support) would be too complicated to polish before release. I hope the post-1.0 modding support does get added, despite skepticism.
    SickSix
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Jacke wrote: »
    You're getting your view of Subnautica back to front. Appreciate it for what it is before you start going on about how it should be. How about enjoying the creativity and uniqueness of this gem. Cool it with the negative waves, man!

    It's Unknown Worlds' game and they've designed it this way

    ..............

    But this game is like Alien: Isolation. You will not win by killing but instead will likely die

    Well first and forall this here is a forum created to collect feedback from the community.And i am giving them feedback. You may be not my opinion but its my opinion and not yours.

    No this game is not like alien isolation or outlast.In those 2 games you are dieing alot and have real obstecals in your way, not only objects which fake a false sense of danger. Subnautica is at the moment like one of those magic tricks, if you know how the illusion was performed then it is no longer interesting.Same in Subnautica:If you understand that almost all enemys are only decoration(like garath called it) and not real obstecales which are hard to pass, then the game becomes a walking/swimming simulator and the tension is gone. In subnautica i died 2 times in 70 hours of overall playtime. Overall i really appreciate the game for what it is, as i said in the first sentences of my topic. But some of their decision making like allowing knive fights but not fights with bow and arrows or harpoons (how cool and rewarding would it be to shoot a crabspider mid air with a arrow, in the moment where it is jumping at you) or why they dont allow modding support or why there is no real difficulty setting in the game (a one size fits all solution almost never works out for nobody), are just not understandable for me. Especially the negative stance on modding support in a survival game, a genre which lives from modding support like no other is really hard to understand for me and just makes no sense no matter from what direction you look at it, not even if you look from a financial/buisness perspective.

    This game is very good as is, but it could become a milestone, one of those rare games which come only once every 5-10 years.So i really do not know why they are not allowing modding support for this game.With mods there would be interesting new content from the community for years to come. And @Racer1, the studio director gave a interview:

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/01/22/subnautica-devs-want-to-add-arctic-biome-after-release/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rockpapershotgun/steam+(Rock,+Paper,+Shotgun:+Steam+RSS)


    where he iterated on his standpoint towards modding support this month:

    He said in this interview:"We made the game we wanted to make with Subnautica, so it’s less exciting for us to spend a bunch of effort to have the community undo it or to make splintered versions… I love mods, but I don’t see the point"

    So it really does sadly not look good for mods.
    Post edited by turtlefrog on
  • cdaragorncdaragorn Members Join Date: 2016-02-07 Member: 212685Posts: 64 Advanced user
    Thankfully the "studio director" won't have much power or control over this. Mods are being made despite that view, and will continue to be made. That's how modding got started in a lot of games that never officially supported them.

    The fact is you're ignoring what's in the game because it doesn't meet your definition of a "real obstacle". This game is full of obstacles and challenges to your progress. If you don't like them that's fine, but it doesn't make them "not" real.
    JackeSickSix
  • suspensionrailwaysuspensionrailway the best countryMembers Join Date: 2017-11-01 Member: 233804Posts: 34 Advanced user
    Modding support isn't required for mods. Personally I've gotten by just fine. The fact that the game is made in a decompilable language is already a lot more than you can say for most games, which is a big plus. So I wouldn't worry about mod support.
    0x6A7232
  • jamintheinfinite_1jamintheinfinite_1 JupiterMembers Join Date: 2016-12-03 Member: 224524Posts: 1,062 Advanced user
    Having barely any weapons makes Subnautica stand out compared to other games like it. Since in those games you can craft very strong weapons and get to the point where you can kill anything with ease. With subnautica, the limit of weapons makes the game more challenging
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    SickSix
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Having barely any weapons makes Subnautica stand out compared to other games like it. Since in those games you can craft very strong weapons and get to the point where you can kill anything with ease. With subnautica, the limit of weapons makes the game more challenging

    There are many survival games where your weapons are fairly restricted/very limited,subnautica is definately not the only one.But in most of them you have at least weapons which are fun to use and dont have to run with the knive after little crabspider things which jump at you and tediously have to hit them several times with the knive.Which is just no fun mechanic on its own.Sure using the propulsion gun on small creatures is a fun thing to do.But its really the only "weapon" in the game which is fun to use.

    A spear,bow,stones to pick up and throw, some underwaterplant version of the crash fish which you can exploid as living grenade, or some sort of harpoon would fit the setting, way better and would be more fun to use. Even then you could make the enemys very difficult to kill so that they take alot of harpoon shoots or bow arrows to kill. But at least the combat part would be more fun.

    I think especially games like rainworld have proven that games where the playable hero has only spears ,stones and the ability to convert other creatures either directly into weapons (explosive plant fruits ...) or can use byproducts of them as a weapon can work extremly well.


    But i understand that other weapons will only happen in a modded version of the game, which is totaly fine for me now that i have heard that games made in the unity engine are as easy to mod, thx to Mr. suspensionrailway (i didnt knew that before).

    Yes overall the game is a brilliant game, even with those (in my opinion ) weakpoints and im thankfull that the developers went through all this trouble creating this gem. I should say that more often. Especially the starter area is full with gameplay and building mechanics to explore. I hope that the dlc content plays like the starter region in terms of the pure number of new things to find out and new gameplaymechanics to explore.
    FredontheForum
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 USMembers Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Posts: 5,259 Advanced user
    You already have:

    Tranq dart (Stasis Rifle)
    Electric prod (Repulsion Cannon / Propulsion + projectile)
    And let's not forget the Seamoth PDS, the Cyclops Shield (it 'hits' creatures colliding with it), and the Torpedo systems (Tear Gas (Gasopod) and Vortex (outta here)

    I'm a (sort of) gun nut. You don't need weapons here, at least not with the current array of creatures. Feel free to mod them in, but then you'll basically be switching the game mode to "very easy" unless you also buff the creatures aggro and attack strength. At which point you've come full circle. And if you wanted to be realistic, you'd make it so killing creatures draws all the carrion feeders (Biters, the different sharks, if there's enough blood, Reapers). At which point you have a Battle of Alamo simulator. *shrug*
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  • WheeljackWheeljack Chilling in the Grand ReefMembers Join Date: 2016-03-17 Member: 214338Posts: 126 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    The whole point is to find creative ways to use what you have, though. It's a challenge all its own. If you tunnel vision on weapons, you wind up knifing everything and yeah, that's not fun. Nor how the game was intended to be played. Have you tried the propulsion cannon for all your crabspider needs?

    Jettisoning those jerks into a fire or off into the ocean IS fun and deeply sastifying as heck. (And you can use crashfish as torpedoes too.)

    And that's just one alternative. You can deal with enemies in a variety of ways, not just knife and/or run! :D
    JackeHaliosFredontheForumSickSix
  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Members Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    I'd love the idea of a survival game where you don't go around mindlessly killing everything if the animals actually behaved more complex and natural. Right now they feel way too basic and too much like the usual enemies of survival games where you do have to kill things.

    It feels like they wanted to make a nonviolent game but never even tried actually making one, and still ended up with your average violent survival game in the end.


    As for what they meant by modding, they just meant no official tools for now. People can still easily mod things in on their own, and have even gotten tips from the devs in the past.


    And they'd love to have multiplayer but it'd just be too much work to add it at this point. They were originally going to have multiplayer, but ending up only focusing on singleplayer because the game was originally meant to be much smaller, and they wanted to rush it out to completion. By the time they realized that it was going to be a much bigger project it was already too late to start work on multiplayer again, so they won't be adding it. There's no chance that the multiplayer mod will ever get anywhere either. You can't just add multiplayer to a singleplayer game and have it not be much work. It's why the devs haven't done it themselves.

    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    You already have:

    Tranq dart (Stasis Rifle)
    Electric prod (Repulsion Cannon / Propulsion + projectile)
    And let's not forget the Seamoth PDS, the Cyclops Shield (it 'hits' creatures colliding with it), and the Torpedo systems (Tear Gas (Gasopod) and Vortex (outta here)

    I'm a (sort of) gun nut. You don't need weapons here, at least not with the current array of creatures. Feel free to mod them in, but then you'll basically be switching the game mode to "very easy" unless you also buff the creatures aggro and attack strength. At which point you've come full circle. And if you wanted to be realistic, you'd make it so killing creatures draws all the carrion feeders (Biters, the different sharks, if there's enough blood, Reapers). At which point you have a Battle of Alamo simulator. *shrug*
    People always seem to forget the Prawn Suit's base arm, which can kill a Boneshark in just four punches. That's pretty much what people have been asking for in a weapon, it's just not called one. Honestly as much as they like to claim it's a nonviolent game by not having any weapons that look like your usual variety, a most of your tools for dealing with fauna can get pretty brutal, and violence is still the easiest solution in most cases. It doesn't help that most ways for nonviolently dealing with aggressive fauna don't even work half the time.

    It seems like they only effort they've made to try and make Subnautica nonviolent is to make the weapons tedious to use, which is a shame.


    0x6A7232gamer1000kJackeFredontheForum
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Morph_Guy wrote: »
    I'd love the idea of a survival game where you don't go around mindlessly killing everything if the animals actually behaved more complex and natural. Right now they feel way too basic and too much like the usual enemies of survival games where you do have to kill things.

    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    You already have:

    Tranq dart (Stasis Rifle)
    Electric prod (Repulsion Cannon / Propulsion + projectile)
    And let's not forget the Seamoth PDS, the Cyclops Shield (it 'hits' creatures colliding with it), and the Torpedo systems (Tear Gas (Gasopod) and Vortex (outta here)

    I'm a (sort of) gun nut. You don't need weapons here, at least not with the current array of creatures. Feel free to mod them in, but then you'll basically be switching the game mode to "very easy" unless you also buff the creatures aggro and attack strength. At which point you've come full circle. And if you wanted to be realistic, you'd make it so killing creatures draws all the carrion feeders (Biters, the different sharks, if there's enough blood, Reapers). At which point you have a Battle of Alamo simulator. *shrug*
    People always seem to forget the Prawn Suit's base arm, which can kill a Boneshark in just four punches. That's pretty much what people have been asking for in a weapon, it's just not called one. Honestly as much as they like to claim it's a nonviolent game by not having any weapons that look like your usual variety, a most of your tools for dealing with fauna can get pretty brutal, and violence is still the easiest solution in most cases. It doesn't help that most ways for nonviolently dealing with aggressive fauna don't even work half the time.

    Yes but punching a enemy or kniving it is not really fun. Aiming at a fast moving enemy and hitting it is more fun, at least for me.
    But my main point is not really the weapons of the game, but rather that the predators are desinged in a way that you basically can ignore most of them for 100 % of the time.Which takes the suspense and tension away from the game the moment you realize that. When did you ever got killed by a stalker,sandshark,gasopod, the red moshroom snakes,the steaming water eruptions or even bonesharks ?

    I dont want to beat this discussion to death, because overall this is a really good game and i havent had that much fun in a game since along time. Im just happy to hear that the game can be modded.
  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Members Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    If anything I wish they were less aggressive and behaved more like actual animals.
    Post edited by Morph_Guy on


  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    I find it interesting you've basically thrown the three most controversial and most discussed topics on the Subnautica forums into one topic

    Multiplayer+Mod support+more weapons

    All of which have been answered by the devs as No+Slim chance+No

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

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    0x6A7232Jacke
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Morph_Guy wrote: »
    If anything I wish they were less aggressive and behaved more like actual animals.

    It seems that we have just a different taste.You want animal simulator 2.0 and i want a dangerouse, hostile and exotic alien world to explore.Im more interested in the survival aspect of the game and fighting against exotic looking creatures and not so much about if the creatures are in this game portrait in the most realistic way.

    Beside of that there are of cause predators in nature which hunt their prey down and dont run away when they got hit one time by their prey or lose interest after 5 second of hunting it.

    Kouji_San wrote: »
    I find it interesting you've basically thrown the three most controversial and most discussed topics on the Subnautica forums into one topic

    Multiplayer+Mod support+more weapons

    All of which have been answered by the devs as No+Slim chance+No

    How is mod support a controversial topic ?
    Is there really someone out there who says:" i dont want to have mod support in the game" ?

    I am realitve new to the game. It flew total under my radar for the last few years until i saw it very short before release in a twitch stream. So i dont know which questions got answerd in this forum and which not.

    And in terms of modding support, even if the developers do not want to have it, thankfully it looks like they cant hinder the community to create mods on their own anyways.So i am happy with that.

    FredontheForum
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Hehe nope, that one is part of the most discussed the other two are part of both. I just lumped them in together :)

    And for proper mod support they'd have to rewrite quite a bit of the engine. But they aren't going to stop modders, I'm completely with you for mod support, but the way they've built Subnautica there is not going to be proper mod framework support

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • UnrealInstinct8UnrealInstinct8 U.S.AMembers Join Date: 2015-04-12 Member: 203335Posts: 24 Advanced user
    I think adding multiplayer would be a fun addition because you could always play by yourself if you wanted too.
    SickSix
  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Members Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Posts: 495 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    I think they should be more aggressive but in the way that they'll actually chase something down for a while unless attacked back or outran. Right now they'll go in for a bite and then turn around and leave, which doesn't make much sense.

    But I don't like how there's no hunger system at all and hostile fauna will just keep attacking even after they've gone through whole schools of fish.

    turtlefrog wrote: »
    Morph_Guy wrote: »
    If anything I wish they were less aggressive and behaved more like actual animals.

    It seems that we have just a different taste.You want animal simulator 2.0 and i want a dangerouse, hostile and exotic alien world to explore.Im more interested in the survival aspect of the game and fighting against exotic looking creatures and not so much about if the creatures are in this game portrait in the most realistic way.

    I don't think the devs themselves really know what type of game they want this to be exactly.

    Post edited by Morph_Guy on


  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Members Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Posts: 495 Advanced user
    I think adding multiplayer would be a fun addition because you could always play by yourself if you wanted too.

    A fun addition yes, but not one that could happen for other reasons already mentioned in this thread. The devs would have added it by now if it was easy to.


  • jamintheinfinite_1jamintheinfinite_1 JupiterMembers Join Date: 2016-12-03 Member: 224524Posts: 1,062 Advanced user
    I also like the limit of just having the knife since most games these days seem to be about killing
    You probably also know me as Terranhawk, aka, the guy who has a Starcraft name but has never touched or seen a Starcraft game in his life/
    I'm both a content and discussion's moderator of both the BZ and SN wikias

    I'm the creator of this Creature Evolution Chart
    I live in the Subnautica side of the forums. IF you have seen me you probably know I suk at speling log wrods and that I'm very sarcastic and don't take things seriously unless called for


    I'm called jamintheinfinite_1 because I was an idiot and made a typo on my email address for the account jamintheinfinite and I was too dumb to know how to fix it.




    s̮̮͇̲̱̻͕͈̠ͪ͐̇̾͒̀͌i̖͈͚̘͈̐̀̈́̃̒̇̀͊ͧ̔̏͒ͅḿ͎͉̜̦̦͓̟̞͗̇͒ͨ̏͌̑ͨͬͬͧͭͥo̩̞̰̮̞̮̼̫̩̳̘͆ͯͣ̓̍͆ͣ̎ͫ͂ͪṅ͖̪̫̘̼̙̪̙̳̰̊̒͋͗ͪͥ̅̑ͤ̆̅ͬͥ̑ͫ ̲̳̟̰̭̖̞͓̙̘͓͔̣͇ͭͥ̂̎̋́͂̋̈́̌͐ͤͨ̀̐̂ͦi͍̫͔̟̰͖͚̫͎̞͚͌ͤ̀͗ͥ͐̂̓ͧs̭͈͙̱̹̬͓̦̝͔̘̼̤͍͎̞̥̎̅̉͛ͦ͒̇͛̎ͬͨ́̍͒̀ͦͅͅ ͙̱̖̳̻͚̳̘̯̲͚̭̟͎̩̤͔̼̩̈́ͤ̋ͪ̿͛ͤͥ̅̒̆̉̓̒̓̅̈̈́̉t̖̞͓̥̤̪̯̘͓͌ͨͮͮͅh̰̙̮̖̆ͬ̎ͫ̿̽̾͋͗̍ͪ͑̀e̳̟̭͇ͤ̃͊̀ͤ̅ͫ̅̒ ̰̗͔̟̼̺̫̲͍̯̥̼͚̦̜̯̣̇̀̅̂̋ͧͦ̊ͥͮ͛̾͐̌͆̔́̎͋ͅb͍̣̲͇͙̞̘̰̫̪̖͔̈̅̃ͬͬḙ͖̠̬͇̦̰̪̟͊̀͐̍̾̓̊s̬͍͈̲̦̥͉̦̼̥͕͍̲̝ͪͬ͆͆͛ͩ̎̓̊̐͗̿̾̊̊t̪͉̝͖̫̼̤̼̩̰ͧ̐̽̋̈́̉̏̃́




  • RalijRalij USMembers Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Posts: 602 Advanced user
    Firstly, welcome to the community!

    I highly recommend checking the stickied topics at the top of the general section.

    Multiplayer is not happening. Period. There is a stickied topic dedicated to this one.

    Weapons, I want a spear at least so I'm with you there, but the answer is still no. I've argued for survival type weapons several times, but that is the official answer.

    There are mods for the game, scan through the general section and you'll find them. One is even for multiplayer. Whether they'll be able to incorporate the steam workshop is another question and I hope they do. Nexus would be even better imo. Mods give games a lot longer life than unmoddable games (Skyrim is a prime example of this). The devs have been open to the idea of mods in the past and nothing has changed there as far as I'm aware. Its a topic that was pushed off to post 1.0 because they wanted to focus on getting it done, iirc.

    I hope my frustration isn't coming through, but if so please accept my apology for any unintended rudeness.
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Ralij wrote: »
    Firstly, welcome to the community!

    I highly recommend checking the stickied topics at the top of the general section.

    Multiplayer is not happening. Period. There is a stickied topic dedicated to this one.

    Weapons, I want a spear at least so I'm with you there, but the answer is still no. I've argued for survival type weapons several times, but that is the official answer.

    There are mods for the game, scan through the general section and you'll find them. One is even for multiplayer. Whether they'll be able to incorporate the steam workshop is another question and I hope they do. Nexus would be even better imo. Mods give games a lot longer life than unmoddable games (Skyrim is a prime example of this). The devs have been open to the idea of mods in the past and nothing has changed there as far as I'm aware. Its a topic that was pushed off to post 1.0 because they wanted to focus on getting it done, iirc.

    I hope my frustration isn't coming through, but if so please accept my apology for any unintended rudeness.



    Im not really interested in multiplayer in this game.I think a game with a setting like this works better in singleplayer anyways. So i agree that multiplayer should not really be high on the priority list.Sure it could be fun playing it with friends after you have finished it alone. But multiplayer would not be the main reason for me to play this game.

    As i watched the livestream on release there was this scene where the studio director said that he had to announce something important at the end of the stream.And then i thought to my self , now he will announce modding support or show a new creature or a teaser of the artic biome. But he only announced porting the game to ps4 and acted like this is the thing everyone wants to have.Sure its good for them to port this game to as many platforms as they can, but thinking that the people who watch the stream from home will by hyped about him announcing the ps4 port, this guy seems to really not understand what features the community wants to see added to the game.

    Again modding support would pay for itself , you can see that in minecraft or in the fallout games or in the skyrim series or team fortress 2 or any ut or quake game.From what i have heard the game is still moddable even without their help, its just not as comfortable and stable to do so.
    0x6A7232
  • RalijRalij USMembers Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Posts: 602 Advanced user
    turtlefrog wrote: »
    As i watched the livestream on release there was this scene where the studio director said that he had to announce something important at the end of the stream.And then i thought to my self , now he will announce modding support or show a new creature or a teaser of the artic biome. But he only announced porting the game to ps4 and acted like this is the thing everyone wants to have.Sure its good for them to port this game to as many platforms as they can, but thinking that the people who watch the stream from home will by hyped about him announcing the ps4 port, this guy seems to really not understand what features the community wants to see added to the game.

    Keep in mind pretty much everyone in the livestream appeared to be pretty hammered, lol. PS4 questions do pop up quite often though, so it is nice to see that they are going for it. I would imagine they're going to focus down getting 1.0 to XB1 first though.

    0x6A7232
  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Ralij wrote: »
    turtlefrog wrote: »
    As i watched the livestream on release there was this scene where the studio director said that he had to announce something important at the end of the stream.And then i thought to my self , now he will announce modding support or show a new creature or a teaser of the artic biome. But he only announced porting the game to ps4 and acted like this is the thing everyone wants to have.Sure its good for them to port this game to as many platforms as they can, but thinking that the people who watch the stream from home will by hyped about him announcing the ps4 port, this guy seems to really not understand what features the community wants to see added to the game.

    Keep in mind pretty much everyone in the livestream appeared to be pretty hammered, lol. PS4 questions do pop up quite often though, so it is nice to see that they are going for it. I would imagine they're going to focus down getting 1.0 to XB1 first though.

    Thats a thing i do not really understand.How does anyone with a pc at home wants to play a base building game on ps4, instead of on pc with mouse controls. I mean who has nowadays not a pc at home, which is at least as powerfull as a ps4? That cant be many people.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    With every update or content patch the floodgates with question like "when will we see PS4", "Is it going to come to PS4" are opened up. So yes, they are indeed answering a demand, but they've also said that it's still a big risk and have to look at how their profits on the console market for Xbone is going to pan out.

    Also you seem to be talking from quite a personal point of view, you assume most people want more weapons in the game. But there are no clear numbers on that at all apart from some forum topics popping up from time to time. TBH going by that standard, multiplayer would have a bigger demand, if the amount of threads made are supposedly the indicator for a certain demand.

    ^Keeping all of this in mind, it seems to me that Charlie (that guy) is definitely connected to what the demand is for this game :tongue:




    As for mod support, I'd love to see Steam Workshop support and also see Microsoft and Sony adapt some kind of similar system so we can introduce MODDING to the console peeps. UWE (devs) know how important modding is, because that is basically their origin with Natural Selection (2002) on GoldSrc (the original Half-Life engine) as well. And there is a Trello card on adding some superficial mod support, but as I said, proper mod framework would be Herculean task to add in it's current state. Those things have to be considered way before an alpha version so the game/engine can be built around that idea.

    Luckily this doesn't stop modders though, but it does stop entry level modders :(


    turtlefrog wrote: »
    Ralij wrote: »
    turtlefrog wrote: »
    As i watched the livestream on release there was this scene where the studio director said that he had to announce something important at the end of the stream.And then i thought to my self , now he will announce modding support or show a new creature or a teaser of the artic biome. But he only announced porting the game to ps4 and acted like this is the thing everyone wants to have.Sure its good for them to port this game to as many platforms as they can, but thinking that the people who watch the stream from home will by hyped about him announcing the ps4 port, this guy seems to really not understand what features the community wants to see added to the game.

    Keep in mind pretty much everyone in the livestream appeared to be pretty hammered, lol. PS4 questions do pop up quite often though, so it is nice to see that they are going for it. I would imagine they're going to focus down getting 1.0 to XB1 first though.

    Thats a thing i do not really understand.How does anyone with a pc at home wants to play a base building game on ps4, instead of on pc with mouse controls. I mean who has nowadays not a pc at home, which is at least as powerfull as a ps4? That cant be many people.


    You're forgetting the couch-gaming factor which console players prefer :) Just like you on the opposite end, there are people who hate sitting at a PC for gaming. It is in fact a personal preference, no more, no less.

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • turtlefrogturtlefrog Members Join Date: 2018-01-21 Member: 235346Posts: 31 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Kouji_San wrote: »

    Also you seem to be talking from quite a personal point of view


    I have nothing else then my personal point of view to think about something

    Kouji_San wrote: »
    you assume most people want more weapons in the game.

    In which post did i say something like that? I said that i think the knive gameplay is not fun. The only thing where i asumed that everybody seems to think the same way as i do, was when it comes to modding support and the ps4 port. It seems that i was wrong about the ps4 port, but i think its fairly clear that for most people which own a pc and ps4 at the same time, the main thing they want to see in the game, seems to be modding support.

    Kouji_San wrote: »
    UWE (devs) know how important modding is, because that is basically their origin with Natural Selection (2002) on GoldSrc (the original Half-Life engine) as well. And there is a Trello card on adding some superficial mod support, but as I said, proper mod framework would be Herculean task to add in it's current state. Those things have to be considered way before an alpha version so the game/engine can be built around that idea.

    Luckily this doesn't stop modders though, but it does stop entry level modders :(

    The studio director gave this month a interview:

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/01/22/subnautica-devs-want-to-add-arctic-biome-after-release/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+rockpapershotgun/steam+(Rock,+Paper,+Shotgun:+Steam+RSS)


    he said in this interwiew:

    "We made the game we wanted to make with Subnautica, so it’s less exciting for us to spend a bunch of effort to have the community undo it or to make splintered versions… I love mods, but I don’t see the point"

    That does not sound for me like UWE (devs) know how important modding is. Why is it that most developers, no matter from what studio, say always in public that they find modding super cool and have modded themself, but when it comes to them allowing and enabeling other people to mod their own game, those same developers find suddenly 1000 reasons why modding is then suddenly not possible in their own game?

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited January 2018
    Alright, I misread something about your "everyone wants weapons" and somehow placed it alongside that bit where you were going on about them not knowing what the community wants, when they announced the PS4 plans. My bad...


    The effort to add mod support isn't exactly free and far from easy or quick, which are probably the main reasons as to why it's not going to happen. Or rather going no further than superficial mod support. They would have to put in the man hours and have to pay for those man hours. If they really don't want to see their "precious baby" being modded heavily. That is a choice they are still allowed to make, they made it quite clear they're not passionate about the idea.

    I might not agree with that choice as I would love to see custom story lines, new submarines and boat with fishing gear :D, perhaps randomly generated instances inside caves for replay-ability etc... But you have to keep in mind that Unity Engine wasn't built for how they are using it, from what I understand they basically had to rebuild and actually build stuff from scratch to make this game even work. And if you modify an engine to that extent, having to support a mod framework alongside this increased complexity with a team of this size. I can definitely imagine them being daunted by that task and also quite uninspired to make that happen if they personally don't really see Subnautica as a game that requires modding. What ever reason they have for that last bit, it's still their call. But it has to be seen in the proper perspective of the task at hand along with their stance on Subnautica modding.

    I mean at this point in time, going forward beyond PC V1.0. They still have to go through the task of Xbone and VR support and performance. And of course if they are going on PS4, making that port work as well, with all that entails.

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

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  • RalijRalij USMembers Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Posts: 602 Advanced user
    turtlefrog wrote: »

    Thats a thing i do not really understand.How does anyone with a pc at home wants to play a base building game on ps4, instead of on pc with mouse controls. I mean who has nowadays not a pc at home, which is at least as powerfull as a ps4? That cant be many people.

    I can't say I understand it either, but I am definitely a pc gamer so I'm a wee bit biased. Different strokes for different folks.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 USMembers Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Posts: 5,259 Advanced user
    PCs can also be played from the couch, say hello to the Steam Link + Steam Controller (or any controller, for that matter).
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