I'd love the idea of a survival game where you don't go around mindlessly killing everything if the animals actually behaved more complex and natural. Right now they feel way too basic and too much like the usual enemies of survival games where you do have to kill things.
It feels like they wanted to make a nonviolent game but never even tried actually making one, and still ended up with your average violent survival game in the end.
As for what they meant by modding, they just meant no official tools for now. People can still easily mod things in on their own, and have even gotten tips from the devs in the past.
And they'd love to have multiplayer but it'd just be too much work to add it at this point. They were originally going to have multiplayer, but ending up only focusing on singleplayer because the game was originally meant to be much smaller, and they wanted to rush it out to completion. By the time they realized that it was going to be a much bigger project it was already too late to start work on multiplayer again, so they won't be adding it. There's no chance that the multiplayer mod will ever get anywhere either. You can't just add multiplayer to a singleplayer game and have it not be much work. It's why the devs haven't done it themselves.
Tranq dart (Stasis Rifle)
Electric prod (Repulsion Cannon / Propulsion + projectile)
And let's not forget the Seamoth PDS, the Cyclops Shield (it 'hits' creatures colliding with it), and the Torpedo systems (Tear Gas (Gasopod) and Vortex (outta here)
I'm a (sort of) gun nut. You don't need weapons here, at least not with the current array of creatures. Feel free to mod them in, but then you'll basically be switching the game mode to "very easy" unless you also buff the creatures aggro and attack strength. At which point you've come full circle. And if you wanted to be realistic, you'd make it so killing creatures draws all the carrion feeders (Biters, the different sharks, if there's enough blood, Reapers). At which point you have a Battle of Alamo simulator. *shrug*
People always seem to forget the Prawn Suit's base arm, which can kill a Boneshark in just four punches. That's pretty much what people have been asking for in a weapon, it's just not called one. Honestly as much as they like to claim it's a nonviolent game by not having any weapons that look like your usual variety, a most of your tools for dealing with fauna can get pretty brutal, and violence is still the easiest solution in most cases. It doesn't help that most ways for nonviolently dealing with aggressive fauna don't even work half the time.
It seems like they only effort they've made to try and make Subnautica nonviolent is to make the weapons tedious to use, which is a shame.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. For all the noise the devs have made regarding not including guns in the game (including some interviews), they haven't actually done a particularly good job of building the game around the concept. Like you said, all they've really done is made the weapons annoying and tedious to use rather than actually try to build AI and game mechanics that provide the player with nonviolent methods of approaching the wildlife.
Unfortunately we're at 1.0 now so I don't see any of this changing unless someone mods it in.
PCs can also be played from the couch, say hello to the Steam Link + Steam Controller (or any controller, for that matter).
Yup when someone wants to see it, I sometimes play Subnautica through Steam Link -> TV for the couch-gaming factor, using the Steam Controller. Which is a helluva lot neater to use for first person than those dual sticks IMHO.
Much better than having them hovering next to your head, looking over your shoulder, especially with multiple people wanting to have a looksee And the oooooh's and aaaaaah's this game produces in most viewers, really helps this along nicely! And you can pass the controller around for them to have a go at exploring this beautiful world, instead of having people constantly stand up so others can sit behind your desk. I guess you could call that "multiplayer"
Casual_PlayerThat...is a really good questionJoin Date: 2016-08-30Member: 221875Members
Steam link and controller, bah.
What happened to a good old cable conneting the tv and pc (mostly laptops, you understand), and a controller/keyboard and mouse linked to said pc/laptop?
The only thing that may happen is people getting angry at you because the cable needed for the laptop is the same needed for a dvd/blue ray player. Otherwise, it is fine.
... What happened to a good old cable conneting the tv and pc ...
It became a Cat6 cable running from the high end gaming PC in one room to the Steam Link in the theater room at the other end of the house.
Well. Or a really high-end wireless router... (Steam Link is also wireless but you need a really good wifi router and not a lot of neighbors on wifi or you might have issues).
PCs can also be played from the couch, say hello to the Steam Link + Steam Controller (or any controller, for that matter).
I have my PC hooked up to my 60" TV and I play from my couch across the room.
But I use a wireless keyboard and wired mouse.
Not sure if you're aware, the Steam Controller basically integrates a touchpad into its driectional pads, right? So instead of wo mini-joysticks, you have two very capable touchpads. Pretty steep learning curve but once you arrive, it should fit a certain niche pretty well. Worth checking out especially if you get it on a nice sale.
Yes and exploration completely without a challenge or obstacle ....
I really wouldn't say that really applies to LR, DGR, ILZ, ALZ. At least if you are going around in a cyclops (thanks to the leviathans, the PRAWN is actually safer), there are dangers. Maybe they could make the hostile creatures more aggressive (at least the warpers, they are literal killing machines) in order to make them scarier. As for the ability to kill them, how would being able to defend yourself make them more dangerous? It'd make them less dangerous if anything. There is a reason that in many horror games, you are entirely defenseless. It adds to the scariness. And it's not like you are entirely defenseless anyways; the repulsion and propulsion cannon are effective weapons (propulsion cannon also very useful for fishing), not to mention the more powerful PRAWN variant. One double punch with the PRAWNs stock arms takes out most normal predators and momentarily scares around leviathans. The drill is also an effective melee weapon. You can install torpedo launchers in the Seamoth and PRAWN, and you get a handheld stasis rifle
Just because you don't get an underwater assault rifle right off the bat doesn't mean that there are no weapons (anything else than small creatures is immortal though), and just because you don't spawn next to a ghost leviathan doesn't mean there are no serious threats
Well. Or a really high-end wireless router... (Steam Link is also wireless but you need a really good wifi router and not a lot of neighbors on wifi or you might have issues).
I tried wireless. Even with line-of-sight. And I have very few neighbours. I have a seriously good router btw.
It was piss-poor.
If your experience was different, then I would love some details. I yearn to learn. Until I see something different, I will continue to plan to extend my cable house-wide.
EDIT: I note your extensive participation in these forums. Having said that, my post remains. Wireless is not the future. Get a CAT6 cable.
Casual_PlayerThat...is a really good questionJoin Date: 2016-08-30Member: 221875Members
I used a HDMI cable. Wouldn't mind putting it on the top of the walls held by duct tape if that means pc on tv gaming. Having a laptop helps in these regards.
PCs can also be played from the couch, say hello to the Steam Link + Steam Controller (or any controller, for that matter).
I have my PC hooked up to my 60" TV and I play from my couch across the room.
But I use a wireless keyboard and wired mouse.
Not sure if you're aware, the Steam Controller basically integrates a touchpad into its driectional pads, right? So instead of wo mini-joysticks, you have two very capable touchpads. Pretty steep learning curve but once you arrive, it should fit a certain niche pretty well. Worth checking out especially if you get it on a nice sale.
Heh ... I'm too old and set in my keyboard/mouse ways, for that new-fangled stuff.
I haven't used a Controller since I gave up my N-64 to play games on my 'puter back in 1998.
PCs can also be played from the couch, say hello to the Steam Link + Steam Controller (or any controller, for that matter).
I have my PC hooked up to my 60" TV and I play from my couch across the room.
But I use a wireless keyboard and wired mouse.
Not sure if you're aware, the Steam Controller basically integrates a touchpad into its driectional pads, right? So instead of wo mini-joysticks, you have two very capable touchpads. Pretty steep learning curve but once you arrive, it should fit a certain niche pretty well. Worth checking out especially if you get it on a nice sale.
Heh ... I'm too old and set in my keyboard/mouse ways, for that new-fangled stuff.
I haven't used a Controller since I gave up my N-64 to play games on my 'puter back in 1998.
It's very intuitive for first person games once you get your hands on one, I was definitely surprised how eat it was to adapt from Mouse+KB. Which is of course still superior, but the Steam Controller is leagues above double stick controls for first person
Thanks to Kouji_San , Rocket , 0x6A7232 and DaveyNY for trying to derail my topic by talking 1 and a 1/2 sides only about playing pc games from the couch.
Yes and exploration completely without a challenge or obstacle ....
I really wouldn't say that really applies to LR, DGR, ILZ, ALZ. At least if you are going around in a cyclops (thanks to the leviathans, the PRAWN is actually safer), there are dangers. Maybe they could make the hostile creatures more aggressive (at least the warpers, they are literal killing machines) in order to make them scarier. As for the ability to kill them, how would being able to defend yourself make them more dangerous? It'd make them less dangerous if anything. There is a reason that in many horror games, you are entirely defenseless. It adds to the scariness. And it's not like you are entirely defenseless anyways; the repulsion and propulsion cannon are effective weapons (propulsion cannon also very useful for fishing), not to mention the more powerful PRAWN variant. One double punch with the PRAWNs stock arms takes out most normal predators and momentarily scares around leviathans. The drill is also an effective melee weapon. You can install torpedo launchers in the Seamoth and PRAWN, and you get a handheld stasis rifle
Just because you don't get an underwater assault rifle right off the bat doesn't mean that there are no weapons (anything else than small creatures is immortal though), and just because you don't spawn next to a ghost leviathan doesn't mean there are no serious threats
Cyclops vs seamoth in terms of enemy agro pull factor:
Yes agreed if you are crusing around in your cyclops then its very likely that a leviathan creature will attack you sooner or later (mostly sooner). The cyclops attracts leviathans like light attracts insects. Thats the reason i almost never use one of those. I use them only if i have to build somewhere else another base to get all the ressourches to this 2nd base.
But in any other vehicle (even in the seamoth or prawn suite) you are basicaly save from leviathans if you dont swim right infront of their face.Im not sure, but from observing them i have also the feeling that they swim only around in very small circles staying on one point and dont wander around through the whole map. That would actually be cool if the leviathans would travel through most of the map that you never know if someone will show up around the corner or not. So that every playthrough would be different.
There are only very few places (after my knowlage its only 2: the lava caves and the void) where creatures get really agressive and dont run away after 1 knife hit. And of cause the levaithans in general dont run away after 1 knife hit. But they dont see very far.Its most of the time really easy to sneak pass a leviathan creature as long as you dont swim right in front of their face.
The warpers are also a good example of how harmless most creatures are. While it can be annoying to get warped out of your vehicle, the warpers dont follow that up most of the time with attacking you. They only warp you out and then they are standing around doing nothing and let you unhiderd to back into your vehilce in 9/10 cases.And even their warping is not that agressive, most of the time they do not even warp you out , but just miss your submarine(even when it is standing still). Or how often did you get attacked by a sandshark or killed by a stalker or a crabsnake or a ampeel ? Those things allmost never happen, because most creatures are only decoration in this game. Sure the ways you can interact with them by making ressourches out of them (bladderfish) or collecting the teeth from the stalker by feeding it scrap metal,are really cool but combatwise or in type of danger most creatures are really lame, non agressive so that you can ignore them in almost 100% of the cases.
Having real weapons would make encountering the creatures easier:
Thats not nessesary true. It would depend on how you would balance the creatures around the "gun" play. You could make them faster, more agressiv, give them alot of hp so that you had to hit them more often with the harpoon, or give them more abilitys to defend themself. It would really depend on the balancing.
But again having weapons in the game is not the most important thing for me.Much more important would be modding support and making the creatures overall more dangerouse.So that the tension comes back into the game , even in the late game and it does not feel kind of empty, shallow.
The Myth of : "Building modding support makes no sense for them because they cant get money out of it"
Thats extremly wrong. Look at minecraft,team fortress 2, the fallout and skyrim games or quake and ut. Those games got only as popular through their modding support.If UWE would build modding support into the game in a way that alos people who are not good at coding could use it, almost everyone would buy this game. The game would mostlikely become a phenomenom like minecraft. It makes total sense out of a financial standpoint to develop mod support. Some companys like Bethesda have build their whole buisnessmodel around modding support.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. For all the noise the devs have made regarding not including guns in the game (including some interviews), they haven't actually done a particularly good job of building the game around the concept. Like you said, all they've really done is made the weapons annoying and tedious to use rather than actually try to build AI and game mechanics that provide the player with nonviolent methods of approaching the wildlife.
Unfortunately we're at 1.0 now so I don't see any of this changing unless someone mods it in.
I agree, mostly you use the knife and then you hit enemys with that 1 time and then they imediately run away. Or you have to run behind them and chase them with a knife like the spider crabs. Only cool weapon is the probulsion gun, which you only can use on very small creatures anyways. Using torpedos is kind of pointless given that you only can shoot 2 of them and then you have to go back to the base. So most of the time you drive around in your seamoth and then bonesharks try to ram it then you either run away from them or you turn of the light as long as they lose interest or if they get to annoying you go out of your seamoth with the stasis gun and knife them then until they are dead or run away. This stop and go gameplay of constantly having to go out of your seamoth knifing a creature and then go into the seamoth again and drive further is kind of annoying. Especially because you have to watch the entering and exit animation of the seamoth everytime you have to scare away creatuers. Or if you see a ressource then you have to watch also the entire exit and entering animation just to collecting one ressource just because your seamoth hasnt some roboter arm upgrade to grab items also when you are sitting inside the seamoth.
The Myth of : "Building modding support makes no sense for them because they cant get money out of it"
Thats extremly wrong. Look at minecraft,team fortress 2, the fallout and skyrim games or quake and ut. Those games got only as popular through their modding support.If UWE would build modding support into the game in a way that alos people who are not good at coding could use it, almost everyone would buy this game. The game would mostlikely become a phenomenom like minecraft. It makes total sense out of a financial standpoint to develop mod support. Some companys like Bethesda have build their whole buisnessmodel around modding support.
That seems like a pretty big exaggeration. Minecraft got huge but as far as I know there still isn't any official modding support, yet there have been plenty of mods made over the years.
While mod support would be nice, it very likely won't boost sales as much as you say, and modding will still happen without it.
Bethesda has made multiple attempts to make money out of the modding community...
I have to add warpers to the aggressive list. Sure, they warp after you smack them, but they really really hurt and I generally consider that a losing exchange, especially around wrecks or areas that I need to loiter in for an extended area of time. Yes, I have been attacked and fairly gravely wounded by sandsharks. Stalkers get my butt every now and then, but they're really a low level enemy, so to speak.
You can use the propulsion cannon as a kind of handheld torpedo launcher. What you do is get a double aquarium and fill it with crashfish. Then have them in your inventory and use them as ammo.
The idea having the weapons be annoying to use is that you aren't supposed to engage enemies to kill, only make them bugger off. You can make do with the knife though, at least enough to claim territory in a fashion so long as you aren't trying to claim all of it. Why are you going after retreating threats? They aren't a threat if they are running away. I think the goal of the 'nonviolent' aspect was simply to not kill unless its necessary. Standard pacifist doctrine (most pacifists will defend themselves and their families, even if they arent "true" pacifists, and I'd wager they arent all starving themselves).
I think the reality of 'nonviolence' isnt avoiding violence entirely (which is impossible, unless everything on the planet wants to starve to death. Even plants commit violent acts against one another. Doubly impossible in the survival genre) but avoiding unnecessary aggression. Most fights in the wild that are not predator-prey do not end in death, many animals prefer shows of display over actual fighting because of the danger involved. Predators will usually bugger off if prey does too much damage to them, unless they are starving. The predators in subnautica eat enough I'm sure they are not. There is also that you are a completely alien thing to these creatures so most give one bite just trying to figure out wtf you are. Stalkers and bonesharks in particular seem to have territory and stalkers engage in raiding so it may also be simple territorial behavior as well.
If I have any desire with this game would be for more animal behavior. Stalkers are nearly tribal in their behaviors in some regards, but the rest... not so much.
Which brings me to this point: in subnautica you are not the apex predator that we are in real life and I think thats a big part of it. Subnautica has more in common with the horror genre in this regard, you simply cannot fight against some of them (unless you have absolutely nothing better to do and feel like it I guess, but it wont be easy). We are a mid-level predator right up to the end. There are prey species (peepers etc), other mid-level predators that are competition (stalkers, sand sharks) and apex predators (leviathans) that see you as a snack.
Besides, its only on this side of the 4th wall you'd ever do anything other than shit yourself when faced with a reaper. Maybe its too long being a roleplayer or too many hardcore runs, but I'd never even consider being in the same ocean as a reaper if I could help it, much less charge it with a knife.
Also as a tip: get the shock module for the seamoth, it helps a lot with bonesharks. Alternatively, ram them first.
The whole point is to find creative ways to use what you have, though. It's a challenge all its own. If you tunnel vision on weapons, you wind up knifing everything and yeah, that's not fun.
Very much this.
A huge component of Subnautica's awesomeness is that you can't just point-click-destroy your way past the game's varied terrifying obstacles.
Have you tried the propulsion cannon for all your crabspider needs?
I don't even use that or any of the game's softer weapons - the stasis rifle, the seamoth's perimeter defense system, or seamoth / cyclops torpedoes.
Awareness, timing and speed are all that's required. By waiting a few seconds until a predator isn't moving directly towards me, I safely exit vehicles, do what I have to do, and re-enter. I'm almost never bitten. Supremely easy with a seaglide and I generally don't even bother with that.
Bethesda has made multiple attempts to make money out of the modding community...
The modding aspect was a huge selling factor for minecraft,fallout and skyrim. I really dont know how you can argue with that and act as if it was not that important.
I have to add warpers to the aggressive list. Sure, they warp after you smack them, but they really really hurt and I generally consider that a losing exchange, especially around wrecks or areas that I need to loiter in for an extended area of time. Yes, I have been attacked and fairly gravely wounded by sandsharks. Stalkers get my butt every now and then, but they're really a low level enemy, so to speak.
The warpers are extremly harmless.Everybody can check that for him/herself , when was the last time you have been actual killed by a warper direct or indirectly by enemys attacking you after the warp process. In my case it was exactly 1 time in 80 hours ! So that almost never happens the way you describe it. The creatures are really not as dangerouse as you make them out to be.
You can use the propulsion cannon as a kind of handheld torpedo launcher. What you do is get a double aquarium and fill it with crashfish. Then have them in your inventory and use them as ammo.
Thats actualy a really cool idea, that sounds like alot of fun. But you have to find alot of crash fish eggs for that and wait along time until they are hatched every time you want some new ammo.Do you really find so many of their eggs that you can use this idea constantly? If yes, then thats really cool.
The idea having the weapons be annoying to use is that you aren't supposed to engage enemies to kill, only make them bugger off. You can make do with the knife though, at least enough to claim territory in a fashion so long as you aren't trying to claim all of it. Why are you going after retreating threats? They aren't a threat if they are running away. I think the goal of the 'nonviolent' aspect was simply to not kill unless its necessary. Standard pacifist doctrine (most pacifists will defend themselves and their families, even if they arent "true" pacifists, and I'd wager they arent all starving themselves).
I think the reality of 'nonviolence' isnt avoiding violence entirely (which is impossible, unless everything on the planet wants to starve to death. Even plants commit violent acts against one another. Doubly impossible in the survival genre) but avoiding unnecessary aggression. Most fights in the wild that are not predator-prey do not end in death, many animals prefer shows of display over actual fighting because of the danger involved. Predators will usually bugger off if prey does too much damage to them, unless they are starving. The predators in subnautica eat enough I'm sure they are not. There is also that you are a completely alien thing to these creatures so most give one bite just trying to figure out wtf you are. Stalkers and bonesharks in particular seem to have territory and stalkers engage in raiding so it may also be simple territorial behavior as well.
If I have any desire with this game would be for more animal behavior. Stalkers are nearly tribal in their behaviors in some regards, but the rest... not so much.
I guess we have just a different taste. For you its most important that those animals behave mostly lifelike and i just want to have a dangerouse and thrilling adventure on a exotic alien planet. I also would not describe this game as horror game, for that the creatures are just way to harmless and are just not big enough of a threaht in general. As said the moment you realize that most enemys are only push overs which you can almost completely ignore, or extremly easy pass without any trouble, is the moment where the game loses its charm . Overall its a really good game but only as long as you not realize that most enemys are not really a thread. Then it becomes more like a beautifull swimming simulator which is also not bad (well depends on the taste of the person).But i think for many players (especially people who like difficult games like dark souls) it becomes just to shallow at this moment.
Which brings me to this point: in subnautica you are not the apex predator that we are in real life and I think thats a big part of it. Subnautica has more in common with the horror genre in this regard, you simply cannot fight against some of them (unless you have absolutely nothing better to do and feel like it I guess, but it wont be easy). We are a mid-level predator right up to the end. There are prey species (peepers etc), other mid-level predators that are competition (stalkers, sand sharks) and apex predators (leviathans) that see you as a snack.
Besides, its only on this side of the 4th wall you'd ever do anything other than shit yourself when faced with a reaper. Maybe its too long being a roleplayer or too many hardcore runs, but I'd never even consider being in the same ocean as a reaper if I could help it, much less charge it with a knife.
Also as a tip: get the shock module for the seamoth, it helps a lot with bonesharks. Alternatively, ram them first.
In the indie game rainworld you are also almost on bottom of the food chain only having bats and some other smaller creatures under you. But there you can at least throw stones and spears, you can even throw an explosive spear or use explosive or electric plants as greanades.And the creatures hunt you down relentlessly in rainworld, if you see some of the creatures of rainworld you better run or hide. There the combat aspect is at least fun even when you are also almost on the bottom.
And in aliens isolation or outlast you at least die alot because the alien or the cult people are really a threat and cant be ignored. So i think those comparisons doesnt really fit.
I dont want to be too negative overall its a great game. I had so much fun playing it, i cant remember in which game i had as much fun before, until the late game where it got a bitl lame for me because of the harmlessnes of most creatures. But overall good game.
The whole point is to find creative ways to use what you have, though. It's a challenge all its own. If you tunnel vision on weapons, you wind up knifing everything and yeah, that's not fun.
Very much this.
A huge component of Subnautica's awesomeness is that you can't just point-click-destroy your way past the game's varied terrifying obstacles.
You dont even need to "point-click-destroy" anything in this game, because most creatures are just way to harmless (doing amost no damage, are extremly unfocused without chasing you or even seeing you most of the time). So you can just very easy sneak by them most of the time. And with most creatures like sandsharks,gasopod,stalkers,ampeels,crabsnakes or river prowler you dont even need to sneak pass them, they do absolutly zero if you dont come very very close to them. Why are you all acting like you have to use strats in this game to "conquer" or get pass creatures, no you dont. Dont get me wrong the using creatures ass ressourches part (bladderfish, teeth of stalker or shuttlebug as cave indicator) is really cool and the whole ressource and base and tool building system in general is also extremly cool. But the difficulty is really lame in this game.
The modding aspect was a huge selling factor for minecraft,fallout and skyrim. I really dont know how you can argue with that and act as if it was not that important.
That wasn't what I said, I just said that Bethesda has attempted to monitize it a couple of times. They take a weird way of looking at the modding communty. I certainly wouldnt have 1100+ hours in skyrim without mods, but it does make me uneasy when a company starts making money for work they hadnt done. They had better have paid or hired Chesko and others for their work for the survival mode they have now. But I'm getting off topic.
The warpers are extremly harmless.Everybody can check that for him/herself , when was the last time you have been actual killed by a warper direct or indirectly by enemys attacking you after the warp process.
Yesterday. Twice. One was an outright kill the other was drowning while on low health and pinned inside of a wreck with no way out other than into the warper's claws. In the open areas they arent bad so long as you are aware of them, but they like to loiter in areas I need to be and spend time in getting blueprints.
Thats actualy a really cool idea, that sounds like alot of fun. But you have to find alot of crash fish eggs for that and wait along time until they are hatched every time you want some new ammo.Do you really find so many of their eggs that you can use this idea constantly? If yes, then thats really cool.
You can adjust for how much you want to use it. I meant to say alien containment units so apologies for that. You only really need 2 eggs if you are patient, once in the acu they will breed. If you're really trigger happy build a stack of 3-5 and you will have 30-50 crashfish waiting to be used as ammo. The more that are in there, the faster they breed. Requires a bit of setup to be sure. If each pair produces an egg then the optimal amount of ammo to take in a set of 50 would be...15. By the time you get back from whatever objective you were aiming for you should be back up to a full stock. Im not entirely sure what the breeding times are though. Could get away with 30 on long trips (3 cycles up to full again)
I guess we have just a different taste. For you its most important that those animals behave mostly lifelike and i just want to have a dangerouse and thrilling adventure on a exotic alien planet. I also would not describe this game as horror game, for that the creatures are just way to harmless and are just not big enough of a threaht in general. As said the moment you realize that most enemys are only push overs which you can almost completely ignore, or extremly easy pass without any trouble, is the moment where the game loses its charm . Overall its a really good game but only as long as you not realize that most enemys are not really a thread. Then it becomes more like a beautifull swimming simulator which is also not bad (well depends on the taste of the person).But it hink for many players (especially people who like difficult games like dark souls) it becomes just to shallow at this moment.
A hard mode could definately solve that.
Perhaps so, it would definitely explain our differences on the matter. It does lose a lot of its oomph once you realize they take one bite and scurry off. Early on I'd say it fits horror pretty well though, at least it did for me on my first run through. Hardmode would certainly be interesting and I'd definitely give it a go. Hardmode + hardcore would be one heck of a thrill.
In the indie game rainworld you are also almost on bottom of the food chain only having bats and some other smaller creatures under you. But there you can at least throw stones and spears, you can even throw an explosive spear or use explosive or electric plants as greanades.And the creatures hunt you down relentlessly in rainworld, if you see some of the creatures of rainworld you better run or hide. There the combat aspect is at least fun even when you are also almost on the bottom.
And in aliens isolation or outlast you at least die alot because the alien or the cult people are really a threat and cant be ignored. So i think those comparisons doesnt really fit.
I dont want to be too negative overall its a great game. I had so much fun playing it, i cant remember in which game i had as much fun before, until the late game where it got a bitl lame for me because of the harmlessnes of most creatures. But overall good game.
I'll have to check out rainworld, it seems like a cool game. Even the LR things and LZ are harmless? Last time I was down there the cyclops was made of paper and you spent a lot of time watching it sink before drowning/getting eaten. Almost have the cyclops again for this run. I do still want my spear though the devs have said no. Get knife, tie to the end of a stick, boom spear. But I guess being unable to do something so simple could be commentary for the overreliance on technology
I'll have to check out rainworld, it seems like a cool game.
Yes you should its a extremly cool game. And its very simular to subnautica when it comes to having a huge world filled with living creatures , which feed all on each other and all have their relation to each other. The creatures are even moving freely on the maps,hunting and eating each other and all have their own agency, so that it can happen that suddenly 5 or 6 big creatures drob down on you in one room. But its also a extremly difficult game. But you should definately give it a try:
I think you might just want the game to be something it's not. Even early on it was never meant to be a super hard survival game with complex fighting mechanics. It's always wanted to be more about the exploration and enjoying the world (how well they pulled that off is a different matter).
I think you might just want the game to be something it's not. Even early on it was never meant to be a super hard survival game with complex fighting mechanics. It's always wanted to be more about the exploration and enjoying the world (how well they pulled that off is a different matter).
There is alot of space between beeing super easy and beeing extremly difficult. Why cant it just be mediocre difficult like most other games. I would be even happy with that.
Different people have just diverent taste, thats why i do not understand why there is no real difficulty selection. Sure you can select hardcore mode where you have only one life and dont get any warning when o2 is sparse, but thats it. Its not really that hardcore mode is really that more difficult you just have to be a little bit more carefull. A real hard mode would be really beneficial for this game. I really love adventure and survival games, but this one is just way way to easy. Early game it is kind of ok but in the mid til late game meta you just have absolutely no challenges. Except of suiciding into the void.
There is alot of space between beeing super easy and beeing extremly difficult. Why cant it just be mediocre difficult like most other games. I would be even happy with that.
I think @Morph_Guy has it right; you're wanting Subnautica to be what it's not. And like others, you're glibly asking for features without considering the amount of effort it would take to properly develop them. UWE knows that (they'd be the people paying for that development) and they figured it wasn't worth the effort to get the game right for multiple difficulties.
However, I was around for some of the testing of various changes in the game as it was developed. I remember the time the number of beasties was doubled. So here's a tougher game mode that might be easier to implement.
Make an extra hard mode to extend hard mode. Double the number of violent beasties. Just to be cruel, quadruple the number of Bonesharks and extend their range.
Hopefully that would be tough enough for you. Might stray into extremely difficult.
There is alot of space between beeing super easy and beeing extremly difficult. Why cant it just be mediocre difficult like most other games. I would be even happy with that.
I think @Morph_Guy has it right; you're wanting Subnautica to be what it's not. And like others, you're glibly asking for features without considering the amount of effort it would take to properly develop them. UWE knows that (they'd be the people paying for that development) and they figured it wasn't worth the effort to get the game right for multiple difficulties.
However, I was around for some of the testing of various changes in the game as it was developed. I remember the time the number of beasties was doubled. So here's a tougher game mode that might be easier to implement.
Make an extra hard mode to extend hard mode. Double the number of violent beasties. Just to be cruel, quadruple the number of Bonesharks and extend their range.
Hopefully that would be tough enough for you. Might stray into extremely difficult.
Or maybe you and i have just different opinions (that would be the easiest explanation).
I have browsed in the last 2 weeeks trough alot of different topics and that Morh_Guy dude seems to post in every topic of every person which has something only slightly critical to say about certain aspects off the game and trying to convince this person then that his opinion is "wrong". Why is it so hard for you guys and girls to understand that people can just have different opinions and that when someone critics certain aspects off the game that this is not an atttack against you as a person who likes this game.And that you dont need to respons to every suggestion someone ever makes in this forum with:"Well maybe this is then not the right game for you". Just let the people decide for themself what is the right game for them and what not. This Morph_Guy dude went trhough almost every post of mine (post for post) in this topic and gave it a disslike. I mean i understand that he is not my opinion, but i also really dont care. Do you see me disliking only one of yours or Morph_guys post ? No i dont, even when i higly disagree with most things you say, but its just not as important for me to let you know that i dont share your opinion. I just try to get my point across and dont really care if you or he likes that.
And no doubling the amount of creatures is no good solution (quantity is not quality) because that would not change the general behavior of the creatures. If you want to change the difficulty you had to rebalance more then only doubling the creatures. You had to:
-make them more agressive
-make them see further and spot you faster
-make them do more damage
-make the leviathans travel even more around the entire world area
-give them additional attack patterns and abilitys (optional)
-create new additional traps and dangers (optional)
so while the first 4 things can be done relative fast (which is the reason that "it would have taken them to long" is a wrong assumption) number 5 and 6 would probably be more like content for the dlc. I really hope they make the dlc area harder or at least give it a changable difficulty setting, i think that would make alot of people happy. At least after judgeing from what i have read in the last two weeks here and on reddit which also alings with how i see the game(at least mostly). Overall great game, but they miss the opportunity to make it as big of a thing as minecraft was, by not developing moddingsupport in a way and shape that almost everybody can mod content for the game. I am personaly not really interested in a multiplayer mode, because i think the atmosphere is more dense,exploring this world in a single player setting, but if this game gets so much requests for a multiplayer mode and if i would be studio boss , then it would be a total no brainer for me to give it a high priority instead of getting bogged down in the thinking of "for what console can i port the game next". Just make the game as good as it can be in a reasonable timeframe (including after release development if the game sells well enough) and give it the potential that it can grow as large as it can, by giving it the most amount of from the community wanted feature as possible and then you can always convert this game to other consoles later on.
I have browsed in the last 2 weeeks trough alot of different topics and that Morh_Guy dude seems to post in every topic of every person which has something only slightly critical to say about certain aspects off the game and trying to convince this person then that his opinion is "wrong". Why is it so hard for you guys and girls to understand that people can just have different opinion and that when someone critics certain aspects off the game that this is not an atttack against you as a person who likes this game.
Because opinions have consequences and often rules. As an example, in science, as famously stated by Richard Feynman, you have to have imagination in a straightjacket, as not everything or every combination is possible and you have to take care how much you change from what's already firmly established when you're imagining something new.
A lot of us have been on the forums for a long time and we've gotten a bit tired of the same questions coming up time and time again (is there a FAQ for Subnautica from UWE?). Maybe we're a bit too tired and should be a bit more gracious in explaining things. Here's a great example where @Insane just recently covered about the Xbox version and why multiplayer isn't included in Subnautica.
Adding features and other game modes takes time and developer effort and that costs. Subnautica has a development plan and budget like all projects and that couldn't be continuously extended for more dollars and time. A lot of people won't buy a game until it's released, so most of the revenue to pay for all that development is now just flowing in. Until this week, Subnautica has been a big debt hole for UWE where they poured in their lifes' work to get to here when they can now get it back, hopefully with a profit.
So you can wish all you like for different features. Just be mindful that as @Insane referred to above when talking about multiplayer, to actually turn those wishes into reality, there's consequences. To put in something into a project, you're changing one of the legs of the tripod of project management: the specification. That means you're going to have to change one or both of the other parts: the schedule and the budget. Unless that specification change just doesn't add but also subtracts so the impact is neutral on schedule and budget.
So what would you take out? Where would you get the extra money? Would your changes to the project risk sales or other failures?
I have browsed in the last 2 weeeks trough alot of different topics and that Morh_Guy dude seems to post in every topic of every person which has something only slightly critical to say about certain aspects off the game and trying to convince this person then that his opinion is "wrong". Why is it so hard for you guys and girls to understand that people can just have different opinion and that when someone critics certain aspects off the game that this is not an atttack against you as a person who likes this game.
Because opinions have consequences and often rules. As an example, in science, as famously stated by Richard Feynman, you have to have imagination in a straightjacket, as not everything or every combination is possible and you have to take care how much you change from what's already firmly established when you're imagining something new.
A lot of us have been on the forums for a long time and we've gotten a bit tired of the same questions coming up time and time again (is there a FAQ for Subnautica from UWE?). Maybe we're a bit too tired and should be a bit more gracious in explaining things. Here's a great example where @Insane just recently covered about the Xbox version and why multiplayer isn't included in Subnautica.
Adding features and other game modes takes time and developer effort and that costs. Subnautica has a development plan and budget like all projects and that couldn't be continuously extended for more dollars and time. A lot of people won't buy a game until it's released, so most of the revenue to pay for all that development is now just flowing in. Until this week, Subnautica has been a big debt hole for UWE where they poured in their lifes' work to get to here when they can now get it back, hopefully with a profit.
So you can wish all you like for different features. Just be mindful that as @Insane referred to above when talking about multiplayer, to actually turn those wishes into reality, there's consequences. To put in something into a project, you're changing one of the legs of the tripod of project management: the specification. That means you're going to have to change one or both of the other parts: the schedule and the budget. Unless that specification change just doesn't add but also subtracts so the impact is neutral on schedule and budget.
So what would you take out? Where would you get the extra money? Would your changes to the project risk sales or other failures?
You may have been long in this forum, i have not. And i think its not to much to ask for to tollerate different opinions. I mean its not that your computer suddenly goes on autopilot, opens my topic for you and then forces you to read what i have wrote in this topic, or is it? If you cant even withstand that another person creates a topic which you dont have to browse to and which may contain a opinion which you do not like, then no safespace in the world is safe enough for you anymore.
If the game sells well which it looks like it does, then the team has every funding and with this time in the world to develop further content. Nobody says that they have to give it out for free then. They could make a dlc which would include a multiplayer mode and moddingsupport with extra additional tools and gameplaymechanics custumtailord for modding and multiplayer and the new biom and sell it for idk 15-20 dollars. And alot of people would buy it.
They are only thinking in the short run about how much money they get from sony now instead of in the long run of how much money do they make overall over a longer timeframe, if they develop the right things with the right multiplicator effects for the game.
And leave Feyman out of this, he would turn in his grave if he could witness the way you try to build arguments.
Our Argumentation turns in circles, we are getting always back to the same starting point. So, no point in continuing this argumentation, with the same arguments over and over again.
If the game sells well which it looks like it does, then the team has every funding and with this time in the world to develop further content. Nobody says that they have to give it out for free then. They could make a dlc which would include a multiplayer mode and moddingsupport with extra additional tools and gameplaymechanics custumtailord for modding and multiplayer and the new biom and sell it for idk 15-20 dollars. And alot of people would buy it.
You started off (looking back at the first post) not talking about DLC but about the nature of Subnautica as it is now. You really enjoyed it. And you discussed the nature of survival games. But you came back talking about why Subnautica as initially developed and released didn't take a different path. A path that seems to me to be wanting more without taking the cost of that path and that cost's impact into consideration.
And leave Feyman out of this, he would turn in his grave if he could witness the way you try to build arguments.
Well, Feynman wouldn't show up as the new guy, not experienced with something, find something good, but then try to say effectively to the game's developers (each with at least 2 successful games released) I think you might be doing it all wrong. All in the space of a few days.
But you do have some thoughts on the nature of survival games. Rather long posts. Perhaps if you have phrased your arguments differently, they'd be received more openly.
Comments
I think you hit the nail on the head here. For all the noise the devs have made regarding not including guns in the game (including some interviews), they haven't actually done a particularly good job of building the game around the concept. Like you said, all they've really done is made the weapons annoying and tedious to use rather than actually try to build AI and game mechanics that provide the player with nonviolent methods of approaching the wildlife.
Unfortunately we're at 1.0 now so I don't see any of this changing unless someone mods it in.
Yup when someone wants to see it, I sometimes play Subnautica through Steam Link -> TV for the couch-gaming factor, using the Steam Controller. Which is a helluva lot neater to use for first person than those dual sticks IMHO.
Much better than having them hovering next to your head, looking over your shoulder, especially with multiple people wanting to have a looksee
What happened to a good old cable conneting the tv and pc (mostly laptops, you understand), and a controller/keyboard and mouse linked to said pc/laptop?
The only thing that may happen is people getting angry at you because the cable needed for the laptop is the same needed for a dvd/blue ray player. Otherwise, it is fine.
It became a Cat6 cable running from the high end gaming PC in one room to the Steam Link in the theater room at the other end of the house.
Well. Or a really high-end wireless router... (Steam Link is also wireless but you need a really good wifi router and not a lot of neighbors on wifi or you might have issues).
I have my PC hooked up to my 60" TV and I play from my couch across the room.
But I use a wireless keyboard and wired mouse.
Not sure if you're aware, the Steam Controller basically integrates a touchpad into its driectional pads, right? So instead of wo mini-joysticks, you have two very capable touchpads. Pretty steep learning curve but once you arrive, it should fit a certain niche pretty well. Worth checking out especially if you get it on a nice sale.
@0x6A7232
Internets Live's profile IIRC, can't check it right now cause I ain't at mah PC
I used to use that, but I've got Caracarn's "Just right Subnautica motion controls" linked now
I really wouldn't say that really applies to LR, DGR, ILZ, ALZ. At least if you are going around in a cyclops (thanks to the leviathans, the PRAWN is actually safer), there are dangers. Maybe they could make the hostile creatures more aggressive (at least the warpers, they are literal killing machines) in order to make them scarier. As for the ability to kill them, how would being able to defend yourself make them more dangerous? It'd make them less dangerous if anything. There is a reason that in many horror games, you are entirely defenseless. It adds to the scariness. And it's not like you are entirely defenseless anyways; the repulsion and propulsion cannon are effective weapons (propulsion cannon also very useful for fishing), not to mention the more powerful PRAWN variant. One double punch with the PRAWNs stock arms takes out most normal predators and momentarily scares around leviathans. The drill is also an effective melee weapon. You can install torpedo launchers in the Seamoth and PRAWN, and you get a handheld stasis rifle
Just because you don't get an underwater assault rifle right off the bat doesn't mean that there are no weapons (anything else than small creatures is immortal though), and just because you don't spawn next to a ghost leviathan doesn't mean there are no serious threats
I tried wireless. Even with line-of-sight. And I have very few neighbours. I have a seriously good router btw.
It was piss-poor.
If your experience was different, then I would love some details. I yearn to learn. Until I see something different, I will continue to plan to extend my cable house-wide.
EDIT: I note your extensive participation in these forums. Having said that, my post remains. Wireless is not the future. Get a CAT6 cable.
Heh ... I'm too old and set in my keyboard/mouse ways, for that new-fangled stuff.
I haven't used a Controller since I gave up my N-64 to play games on my 'puter back in 1998.
It's very intuitive for first person games once you get your hands on one, I was definitely surprised how eat it was to adapt from Mouse+KB. Which is of course still superior, but the Steam Controller is leagues above double stick controls for first person
Cyclops vs seamoth in terms of enemy agro pull factor:
Yes agreed if you are crusing around in your cyclops then its very likely that a leviathan creature will attack you sooner or later (mostly sooner). The cyclops attracts leviathans like light attracts insects. Thats the reason i almost never use one of those. I use them only if i have to build somewhere else another base to get all the ressourches to this 2nd base.
But in any other vehicle (even in the seamoth or prawn suite) you are basicaly save from leviathans if you dont swim right infront of their face.Im not sure, but from observing them i have also the feeling that they swim only around in very small circles staying on one point and dont wander around through the whole map. That would actually be cool if the leviathans would travel through most of the map that you never know if someone will show up around the corner or not. So that every playthrough would be different.
There are only very few places (after my knowlage its only 2: the lava caves and the void) where creatures get really agressive and dont run away after 1 knife hit. And of cause the levaithans in general dont run away after 1 knife hit. But they dont see very far.Its most of the time really easy to sneak pass a leviathan creature as long as you dont swim right in front of their face.
The warpers are also a good example of how harmless most creatures are. While it can be annoying to get warped out of your vehicle, the warpers dont follow that up most of the time with attacking you. They only warp you out and then they are standing around doing nothing and let you unhiderd to back into your vehilce in 9/10 cases.And even their warping is not that agressive, most of the time they do not even warp you out , but just miss your submarine(even when it is standing still). Or how often did you get attacked by a sandshark or killed by a stalker or a crabsnake or a ampeel ? Those things allmost never happen, because most creatures are only decoration in this game. Sure the ways you can interact with them by making ressourches out of them (bladderfish) or collecting the teeth from the stalker by feeding it scrap metal,are really cool but combatwise or in type of danger most creatures are really lame, non agressive so that you can ignore them in almost 100% of the cases.
Having real weapons would make encountering the creatures easier:
Thats not nessesary true. It would depend on how you would balance the creatures around the "gun" play. You could make them faster, more agressiv, give them alot of hp so that you had to hit them more often with the harpoon, or give them more abilitys to defend themself. It would really depend on the balancing.
But again having weapons in the game is not the most important thing for me.Much more important would be modding support and making the creatures overall more dangerouse.So that the tension comes back into the game , even in the late game and it does not feel kind of empty, shallow.
Thats extremly wrong. Look at minecraft,team fortress 2, the fallout and skyrim games or quake and ut. Those games got only as popular through their modding support.If UWE would build modding support into the game in a way that alos people who are not good at coding could use it, almost everyone would buy this game. The game would mostlikely become a phenomenom like minecraft. It makes total sense out of a financial standpoint to develop mod support. Some companys like Bethesda have build their whole buisnessmodel around modding support.
I agree, mostly you use the knife and then you hit enemys with that 1 time and then they imediately run away. Or you have to run behind them and chase them with a knife like the spider crabs. Only cool weapon is the probulsion gun, which you only can use on very small creatures anyways. Using torpedos is kind of pointless given that you only can shoot 2 of them and then you have to go back to the base. So most of the time you drive around in your seamoth and then bonesharks try to ram it then you either run away from them or you turn of the light as long as they lose interest or if they get to annoying you go out of your seamoth with the stasis gun and knife them then until they are dead or run away. This stop and go gameplay of constantly having to go out of your seamoth knifing a creature and then go into the seamoth again and drive further is kind of annoying. Especially because you have to watch the entering and exit animation of the seamoth everytime you have to scare away creatuers. Or if you see a ressource then you have to watch also the entire exit and entering animation just to collecting one ressource just because your seamoth hasnt some roboter arm upgrade to grab items also when you are sitting inside the seamoth.
That seems like a pretty big exaggeration. Minecraft got huge but as far as I know there still isn't any official modding support, yet there have been plenty of mods made over the years.
While mod support would be nice, it very likely won't boost sales as much as you say, and modding will still happen without it.
I have to add warpers to the aggressive list. Sure, they warp after you smack them, but they really really hurt and I generally consider that a losing exchange, especially around wrecks or areas that I need to loiter in for an extended area of time. Yes, I have been attacked and fairly gravely wounded by sandsharks. Stalkers get my butt every now and then, but they're really a low level enemy, so to speak.
You can use the propulsion cannon as a kind of handheld torpedo launcher. What you do is get a double aquarium and fill it with crashfish. Then have them in your inventory and use them as ammo.
The idea having the weapons be annoying to use is that you aren't supposed to engage enemies to kill, only make them bugger off. You can make do with the knife though, at least enough to claim territory in a fashion so long as you aren't trying to claim all of it. Why are you going after retreating threats? They aren't a threat if they are running away. I think the goal of the 'nonviolent' aspect was simply to not kill unless its necessary. Standard pacifist doctrine (most pacifists will defend themselves and their families, even if they arent "true" pacifists, and I'd wager they arent all starving themselves).
I think the reality of 'nonviolence' isnt avoiding violence entirely (which is impossible, unless everything on the planet wants to starve to death. Even plants commit violent acts against one another. Doubly impossible in the survival genre) but avoiding unnecessary aggression. Most fights in the wild that are not predator-prey do not end in death, many animals prefer shows of display over actual fighting because of the danger involved. Predators will usually bugger off if prey does too much damage to them, unless they are starving. The predators in subnautica eat enough I'm sure they are not. There is also that you are a completely alien thing to these creatures so most give one bite just trying to figure out wtf you are. Stalkers and bonesharks in particular seem to have territory and stalkers engage in raiding so it may also be simple territorial behavior as well.
If I have any desire with this game would be for more animal behavior. Stalkers are nearly tribal in their behaviors in some regards, but the rest... not so much.
Which brings me to this point: in subnautica you are not the apex predator that we are in real life and I think thats a big part of it. Subnautica has more in common with the horror genre in this regard, you simply cannot fight against some of them (unless you have absolutely nothing better to do and feel like it I guess, but it wont be easy). We are a mid-level predator right up to the end. There are prey species (peepers etc), other mid-level predators that are competition (stalkers, sand sharks) and apex predators (leviathans) that see you as a snack.
Besides, its only on this side of the 4th wall you'd ever do anything other than shit yourself when faced with a reaper. Maybe its too long being a roleplayer or too many hardcore runs, but I'd never even consider being in the same ocean as a reaper if I could help it, much less charge it with a knife.
Also as a tip: get the shock module for the seamoth, it helps a lot with bonesharks. Alternatively, ram them first.
Very much this.
A huge component of Subnautica's awesomeness is that you can't just point-click-destroy your way past the game's varied terrifying obstacles.
I don't even use that or any of the game's softer weapons - the stasis rifle, the seamoth's perimeter defense system, or seamoth / cyclops torpedoes.
Awareness, timing and speed are all that's required. By waiting a few seconds until a predator isn't moving directly towards me, I safely exit vehicles, do what I have to do, and re-enter. I'm almost never bitten. Supremely easy with a seaglide and I generally don't even bother with that.
The modding aspect was a huge selling factor for minecraft,fallout and skyrim. I really dont know how you can argue with that and act as if it was not that important.
The warpers are extremly harmless.Everybody can check that for him/herself , when was the last time you have been actual killed by a warper direct or indirectly by enemys attacking you after the warp process. In my case it was exactly 1 time in 80 hours ! So that almost never happens the way you describe it. The creatures are really not as dangerouse as you make them out to be.
Thats actualy a really cool idea, that sounds like alot of fun. But you have to find alot of crash fish eggs for that and wait along time until they are hatched every time you want some new ammo.Do you really find so many of their eggs that you can use this idea constantly? If yes, then thats really cool.
I guess we have just a different taste. For you its most important that those animals behave mostly lifelike and i just want to have a dangerouse and thrilling adventure on a exotic alien planet. I also would not describe this game as horror game, for that the creatures are just way to harmless and are just not big enough of a threaht in general. As said the moment you realize that most enemys are only push overs which you can almost completely ignore, or extremly easy pass without any trouble, is the moment where the game loses its charm . Overall its a really good game but only as long as you not realize that most enemys are not really a thread. Then it becomes more like a beautifull swimming simulator which is also not bad (well depends on the taste of the person).But i think for many players (especially people who like difficult games like dark souls) it becomes just to shallow at this moment.
A hard mode could definately solve that.
In the indie game rainworld you are also almost on bottom of the food chain only having bats and some other smaller creatures under you. But there you can at least throw stones and spears, you can even throw an explosive spear or use explosive or electric plants as greanades.And the creatures hunt you down relentlessly in rainworld, if you see some of the creatures of rainworld you better run or hide. There the combat aspect is at least fun even when you are also almost on the bottom.
And in aliens isolation or outlast you at least die alot because the alien or the cult people are really a threat and cant be ignored. So i think those comparisons doesnt really fit.
I dont want to be too negative overall its a great game. I had so much fun playing it, i cant remember in which game i had as much fun before, until the late game where it got a bitl lame for me because of the harmlessnes of most creatures. But overall good game.
You dont even need to "point-click-destroy" anything in this game, because most creatures are just way to harmless (doing amost no damage, are extremly unfocused without chasing you or even seeing you most of the time). So you can just very easy sneak by them most of the time. And with most creatures like sandsharks,gasopod,stalkers,ampeels,crabsnakes or river prowler you dont even need to sneak pass them, they do absolutly zero if you dont come very very close to them. Why are you all acting like you have to use strats in this game to "conquer" or get pass creatures, no you dont. Dont get me wrong the using creatures ass ressourches part (bladderfish, teeth of stalker or shuttlebug as cave indicator) is really cool and the whole ressource and base and tool building system in general is also extremly cool. But the difficulty is really lame in this game.
That wasn't what I said, I just said that Bethesda has attempted to monitize it a couple of times. They take a weird way of looking at the modding communty. I certainly wouldnt have 1100+ hours in skyrim without mods, but it does make me uneasy when a company starts making money for work they hadnt done. They had better have paid or hired Chesko and others for their work for the survival mode they have now. But I'm getting off topic.
Yesterday. Twice. One was an outright kill the other was drowning while on low health and pinned inside of a wreck with no way out other than into the warper's claws. In the open areas they arent bad so long as you are aware of them, but they like to loiter in areas I need to be and spend time in getting blueprints.
You can adjust for how much you want to use it. I meant to say alien containment units so apologies for that. You only really need 2 eggs if you are patient, once in the acu they will breed. If you're really trigger happy build a stack of 3-5 and you will have 30-50 crashfish waiting to be used as ammo. The more that are in there, the faster they breed. Requires a bit of setup to be sure. If each pair produces an egg then the optimal amount of ammo to take in a set of 50 would be...15. By the time you get back from whatever objective you were aiming for you should be back up to a full stock. Im not entirely sure what the breeding times are though. Could get away with 30 on long trips (3 cycles up to full again)
Perhaps so, it would definitely explain our differences on the matter. It does lose a lot of its oomph once you realize they take one bite and scurry off. Early on I'd say it fits horror pretty well though, at least it did for me on my first run through. Hardmode would certainly be interesting and I'd definitely give it a go. Hardmode + hardcore would be one heck of a thrill.
I'll have to check out rainworld, it seems like a cool game. Even the LR things and LZ are harmless? Last time I was down there the cyclops was made of paper and you spent a lot of time watching it sink before drowning/getting eaten. Almost have the cyclops again for this run. I do still want my spear though the devs have said no. Get knife, tie to the end of a stick, boom spear. But I guess being unable to do something so simple could be commentary for the overreliance on technology
Yes you should its a extremly cool game. And its very simular to subnautica when it comes to having a huge world filled with living creatures , which feed all on each other and all have their relation to each other. The creatures are even moving freely on the maps,hunting and eating each other and all have their own agency, so that it can happen that suddenly 5 or 6 big creatures drob down on you in one room. But its also a extremly difficult game. But you should definately give it a try:
Here are some short youtube vids about rainworld:
There is alot of space between beeing super easy and beeing extremly difficult. Why cant it just be mediocre difficult like most other games. I would be even happy with that.
Different people have just diverent taste, thats why i do not understand why there is no real difficulty selection. Sure you can select hardcore mode where you have only one life and dont get any warning when o2 is sparse, but thats it. Its not really that hardcore mode is really that more difficult you just have to be a little bit more carefull. A real hard mode would be really beneficial for this game. I really love adventure and survival games, but this one is just way way to easy. Early game it is kind of ok but in the mid til late game meta you just have absolutely no challenges. Except of suiciding into the void.
However, I was around for some of the testing of various changes in the game as it was developed. I remember the time the number of beasties was doubled. So here's a tougher game mode that might be easier to implement.
Make an extra hard mode to extend hard mode. Double the number of violent beasties. Just to be cruel, quadruple the number of Bonesharks and extend their range.
Hopefully that would be tough enough for you. Might stray into extremely difficult.
Or maybe you and i have just different opinions (that would be the easiest explanation).
I have browsed in the last 2 weeeks trough alot of different topics and that Morh_Guy dude seems to post in every topic of every person which has something only slightly critical to say about certain aspects off the game and trying to convince this person then that his opinion is "wrong". Why is it so hard for you guys and girls to understand that people can just have different opinions and that when someone critics certain aspects off the game that this is not an atttack against you as a person who likes this game.And that you dont need to respons to every suggestion someone ever makes in this forum with:"Well maybe this is then not the right game for you". Just let the people decide for themself what is the right game for them and what not. This Morph_Guy dude went trhough almost every post of mine (post for post) in this topic and gave it a disslike. I mean i understand that he is not my opinion, but i also really dont care. Do you see me disliking only one of yours or Morph_guys post ? No i dont, even when i higly disagree with most things you say, but its just not as important for me to let you know that i dont share your opinion. I just try to get my point across and dont really care if you or he likes that.
And no doubling the amount of creatures is no good solution (quantity is not quality) because that would not change the general behavior of the creatures. If you want to change the difficulty you had to rebalance more then only doubling the creatures. You had to:
-make them more agressive
-make them see further and spot you faster
-make them do more damage
-make the leviathans travel even more around the entire world area
-give them additional attack patterns and abilitys (optional)
-create new additional traps and dangers (optional)
so while the first 4 things can be done relative fast (which is the reason that "it would have taken them to long" is a wrong assumption) number 5 and 6 would probably be more like content for the dlc. I really hope they make the dlc area harder or at least give it a changable difficulty setting, i think that would make alot of people happy. At least after judgeing from what i have read in the last two weeks here and on reddit which also alings with how i see the game(at least mostly). Overall great game, but they miss the opportunity to make it as big of a thing as minecraft was, by not developing moddingsupport in a way and shape that almost everybody can mod content for the game. I am personaly not really interested in a multiplayer mode, because i think the atmosphere is more dense,exploring this world in a single player setting, but if this game gets so much requests for a multiplayer mode and if i would be studio boss , then it would be a total no brainer for me to give it a high priority instead of getting bogged down in the thinking of "for what console can i port the game next". Just make the game as good as it can be in a reasonable timeframe (including after release development if the game sells well enough) and give it the potential that it can grow as large as it can, by giving it the most amount of from the community wanted feature as possible and then you can always convert this game to other consoles later on.
A lot of us have been on the forums for a long time and we've gotten a bit tired of the same questions coming up time and time again (is there a FAQ for Subnautica from UWE?). Maybe we're a bit too tired and should be a bit more gracious in explaining things. Here's a great example where @Insane just recently covered about the Xbox version and why multiplayer isn't included in Subnautica.
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2375476/#Comment_2375476
Adding features and other game modes takes time and developer effort and that costs. Subnautica has a development plan and budget like all projects and that couldn't be continuously extended for more dollars and time. A lot of people won't buy a game until it's released, so most of the revenue to pay for all that development is now just flowing in. Until this week, Subnautica has been a big debt hole for UWE where they poured in their lifes' work to get to here when they can now get it back, hopefully with a profit.
So you can wish all you like for different features. Just be mindful that as @Insane referred to above when talking about multiplayer, to actually turn those wishes into reality, there's consequences. To put in something into a project, you're changing one of the legs of the tripod of project management: the specification. That means you're going to have to change one or both of the other parts: the schedule and the budget. Unless that specification change just doesn't add but also subtracts so the impact is neutral on schedule and budget.
So what would you take out? Where would you get the extra money? Would your changes to the project risk sales or other failures?
You may have been long in this forum, i have not. And i think its not to much to ask for to tollerate different opinions. I mean its not that your computer suddenly goes on autopilot, opens my topic for you and then forces you to read what i have wrote in this topic, or is it? If you cant even withstand that another person creates a topic which you dont have to browse to and which may contain a opinion which you do not like, then no safespace in the world is safe enough for you anymore.
If the game sells well which it looks like it does, then the team has every funding and with this time in the world to develop further content. Nobody says that they have to give it out for free then. They could make a dlc which would include a multiplayer mode and moddingsupport with extra additional tools and gameplaymechanics custumtailord for modding and multiplayer and the new biom and sell it for idk 15-20 dollars. And alot of people would buy it.
They are only thinking in the short run about how much money they get from sony now instead of in the long run of how much money do they make overall over a longer timeframe, if they develop the right things with the right multiplicator effects for the game.
And leave Feyman out of this, he would turn in his grave if he could witness the way you try to build arguments.
Our Argumentation turns in circles, we are getting always back to the same starting point. So, no point in continuing this argumentation, with the same arguments over and over again.
You started off (looking back at the first post) not talking about DLC but about the nature of Subnautica as it is now. You really enjoyed it. And you discussed the nature of survival games. But you came back talking about why Subnautica as initially developed and released didn't take a different path. A path that seems to me to be wanting more without taking the cost of that path and that cost's impact into consideration.
Well, Feynman wouldn't show up as the new guy, not experienced with something, find something good, but then try to say effectively to the game's developers (each with at least 2 successful games released) I think you might be doing it all wrong. All in the space of a few days.
But you do have some thoughts on the nature of survival games. Rather long posts. Perhaps if you have phrased your arguments differently, they'd be received more openly.