Base-attached air pumps are here!

ShuryCZShuryCZ Czech Republic Join Date: 2015-07-07 Member: 206047Members Posts: 176 Advanced user
Hello community,

today I tried out the experimental and to my surprise, air pump has now two types.

8kqh5h56iju5.jpg
Description in the constructor menu.

hbh3gpl0ql9a.jpg
There is no specific area to place the pump (not sure if there are going to be "spots" to place it)

6j40v9l4e8pf.jpg
As you can see, the branching of pipes is possible!

I am excited for this neat feature. It gives you yet another option how to chart your surroundings. Of course, let's wait how it works in the stable version (this was creative).

What about you guys? Are you happy to see this expansion of pumps and pipes? Are you gonna use it? It is even necessary? Let me know and have a good day. :)
Up, up and away!
FluffersDrownedOutBENSKITenebrousNovaDigliImmortalHunterJamezorgAntonin
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Comments

  • FluffersFluffers United States Join Date: 2015-05-22 Member: 204749Members Posts: 188 Advanced user
    I remember having a massive tree of pipes hanging down from the surface leading all the way to like 600 meters in the grand reef, this makes things a lot simpler and a lot less ugly.
    ShuryCZ
  • ShuryCZShuryCZ Czech Republic Join Date: 2015-07-07 Member: 206047Members Posts: 176 Advanced user
    Gosh, how long did it take to build @Fluffers ? :D Yes, in this regard, it makes thing very easy. I don't know if it will consume base energy. It should, right?
    Up, up and away!
  • ShuryCZShuryCZ Czech Republic Join Date: 2015-07-07 Member: 206047Members Posts: 176 Advanced user
    That is great scheme @BENSKI ! I agree, this would be good early game limitation and bonus-mechanism for later. Also, I would add this - what if you would have to watch where you put the pipes? What if something destroys your network? That would be another strategic layer. Ok, maybe to complicated... and I don't think the devs will do this... :(
    Up, up and away!
  • BENSKIBENSKI Join Date: 2016-08-07 Member: 221063Members Posts: 51 Advanced user
    ShuryCZ wrote: »
    What if you would have to watch where you put the pipes? What if something destroys your network? That would be another strategic layer.
    Unfortunately, yes, that might be a bit too much to worry about, particularly if one's pipe networks became very extensive. If pipes come to require power, managing the power supply would be enough of a challenge I think!

    And who knows ... these pipes could even be self-repairing/maintaining as long as they have sufficient power ;)
  • hugothesilverdragonhugothesilverdragon canad Join Date: 2015-11-30 Member: 209620Members Posts: 140 Advanced user
    are they trying to make it impossible to make a base? or is this pay back for us buging them so much?
  • hugothesilverdragonhugothesilverdragon canad Join Date: 2015-11-30 Member: 209620Members Posts: 140 Advanced user
    BENSKI wrote: »
    Personally I have always had an issue with bases being able to produce their own oxygen supply ... which relates to the issue of pipes ...

    I have always hoped that pipes would be deployed as the primary way to get oxygen into your base.

    This would not only promote realism/immersion (solving the currently ambiguous issue of where oxygen supply comes from) but it would also force the player to use pipes early on in the game and discover their usefulness.
    I never used pipes at all during my first playthrough but had I known about them I would have used them to great effect!

    Connecting bases via pipes would essentially create "highways" of oxygen supply which would improve and enhance the diving experience immensely (which I am sure this addition will do!)

    While this addition is a welcome improvement ... I hope that pipes can be fleshed out as a bigger part of the game because they really have the potential to improve gameplay and game progression ...

    Here is my take on expanding the functionality of pipes in the game:

    25rurt54hzde.jpg

    maybe they will ad oxygen scrubbers
  • crimsontwilightcrimsontwilight England Join Date: 2014-03-30 Member: 195051Members Posts: 28 Fully active user
    The new pipe system does look awesome though.
  • ReefseekerReefseeker Finland Join Date: 2015-05-21 Member: 204740Members Posts: 110 Advanced user
    If you think that I have overthought this...
    ...you would be dead right.

    Well, it's good someone has.
    However, pumping air from the surface would almost certainly require less power

    Do you think pumping oxygen would require more energy than producing it locally after a certain depth or pipe length has been reached? Perhaps like how BENSKI here suggested in his elaboration?

    I mean that would certainly make pipes a feasible solution for early game bases/exploration. Especially if local oxygen production was to be a blueprint not available in the beginning.

    I like the idea of tinkering an oxygen supply for your base. Some may think it's just extra work, but I like it. It would reify the fact that the player is indeed in an environment that is not inherent to his species, and that one actually has to workworkwork to acquire the essential elements for living there.
    Do not go gentle into that good night,
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    BENSKI
  • ShuryCZShuryCZ Czech Republic Join Date: 2015-07-07 Member: 206047Members Posts: 176 Advanced user
    I think that pumping air through the pipes would require some kind of compressor and that (in reality) can get quite energy expensive, but that is beside the point since this is scifi-future with god-like technology.

    It seems like feasible solution to me after all, with the option to switch to more advanced filtration device later. Crimsontwilight and Reedsweker, those are good points indeed.
    Up, up and away!
    BENSKI
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depths Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Members Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    Neat. I never use pipes... but this could have useful applications. You could bring enough titanium for a corridor section and a solar panel to a wreck, and then pipe yourself oxygen inside and not have to constantly return to seamoth.
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
  • AvimimusAvimimus Join Date: 2016-03-28 Member: 214968Members Posts: 401 Advanced user
    Does this work both ways? Can we pump air from the base to another location? That'd be pretty great!

    Imagine building a base below the great mushroom tree and then putting a pipe up into the cave system...

    Hookah smoking caterpillar anyone?
    ShuryCZDigli
  • AvimimusAvimimus Join Date: 2016-03-28 Member: 214968Members Posts: 401 Advanced user
    I just tested it! It Works, it Works, it Works!!!

    This is awesome. A dream come true... really mermaid caterpillar stuff!
    Soul_Rider
  • TarkannenTarkannen North Carolina Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221304Members Posts: 669 Advanced user
    I think that it is not at all unrealistic for the bases to produce their own oxygen. They are entirely surrounded by water, which is composed of 2H+ and O- ions (H2O), these can be separated into oxygen and hydrogen gases using an electrical current...

    Upvote to you, good sir, for pointing this out. It's not unrealistic to think that the prefab base components, corridors and multipurpose rooms wouldn't be able to produce oxygen and an environment for players. The Aurora was a mining vessel, and they had to be able to set up bases and outposts for their workers to survive while mining in space or on planets with hostile environments. The base structures are likely able to extract whatever is available outside the environment and convert it to a breathable atmosphere, providing there is power to do this.

    Another point for @crimsontwilight is the Water Filtration machine. It hooks up in the Multipurpose room to distill sea water into usable Salt and Water, but it doesn't connect at all to the outside. How does it get the water then? Because it pulls it from the connecting systems in the Multipurpose Room that is taking oxygen from the surrounding water! :) It also likely explains why the Filtration machine can produce salt faster than water (since the water is already being used for the base's oxygen supply, it takes longer to process).
    If you think that I have overthought this...
    ...you would be dead right.

    Dreamers shall always trump the realists in my book. :blush:
    Like my avatar? She's Jane, she's cute and she's awesome! She comes from the webcomic Nerf NOW!! created by Jo Pereira, and you should go check it out right NOW!!
    yomama
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members Posts: 655 Advanced user
    Tarkannen wrote: »
    I think that it is not at all unrealistic for the bases to produce their own oxygen. They are entirely surrounded by water, which is composed of 2H+ and O- ions (H2O), these can be separated into oxygen and hydrogen gases using an electrical current...

    Upvote to you, good sir, for pointing this out. It's not unrealistic to think that the prefab base components, corridors and multipurpose rooms wouldn't be able to produce oxygen and an environment for players. The Aurora was a mining vessel, and they had to be able to set up bases and outposts for their workers to survive while mining in space or on planets with hostile environments. The base structures are likely able to extract whatever is available outside the environment and convert it to a breathable atmosphere, providing there is power to do this.

    Another point for @crimsontwilight is the Water Filtration machine. It hooks up in the Multipurpose room to distill sea water into usable Salt and Water, but it doesn't connect at all to the outside. How does it get the water then? Because it pulls it from the connecting systems in the Multipurpose Room that is taking oxygen from the surrounding water! :) It also likely explains why the Filtration machine can produce salt faster than water (since the water is already being used for the base's oxygen supply, it takes longer to process).
    If you think that I have overthought this...
    ...you would be dead right.

    Dreamers shall always trump the realists in my book. :blush:

    Uhm, no. You can see that the water filtration requires a window-slot hookup. The outside of that is open to the water, and it would only need tiny holes or a filter to suck in some water for desalination.
    BENSKI
  • TarkannenTarkannen North Carolina Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221304Members Posts: 669 Advanced user
    Oh... Thank you @EvilSmoo for pointing that out to me. I haven't bothered to build windows in any of my structures yet so I didn't know. But I hope my observation for O2 production is still somewhat credible heh. :tongue:
    Like my avatar? She's Jane, she's cute and she's awesome! She comes from the webcomic Nerf NOW!! created by Jo Pereira, and you should go check it out right NOW!!
  • crimsontwilightcrimsontwilight England Join Date: 2014-03-30 Member: 195051Members Posts: 28 Fully active user
    Answering the question of when it is more efficient to use pipes is a much more difficult one (one which mine shaft designers are paid a lot to do), so my maths will most likely be inaccurate, as it assumes that the base is essentially one long straight shaft with constant diameter. It also assumes that the base is full of air to begin with. Anyway, here goes.

    As I was writing this i realise there are some parts which don't appear to make much sense (such as accelerating air to 500m/s), but the answers I get still seem sensible, so who knows. I'll get back to you in 3 years once I've finished my degree. ;)

    As established before, humans need 0.84kg of oxygen a day, equivalent to 0.00000972kg/s (0.84/(60*60*24). Since air is 23.3% oxygen (by mass) this is the same as 0.0000417kg/s of air (0.00000972*(100/23.3)).

    Therefore the fan/air-pump must accelerate 0.0000417kg of air to a velocity equal to the depth m/s (if the base is 500m deep the air must be at 500m/s), this means that the required mass of oxygen reaches the bottom of the base every second.

    The power required to do this = energy/time. The energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. So the power required = 0.5*0.0000417*depth^2 Watts = 0.00002085 x depth squared.

    Since the electrolysis of water (splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen) needed 86 watts (see previous post), we can work out when it becomes more efficient.

    86 = 0.00002085 x depth^2
    4124700 = depth^2
    depth = 2030m

    so at 2030m or deeper electrolysis is better than pipes, assuming 100% efficiency. However modern fans are lucky if they have 50%, meaning the pipes would need twice the power.

    86 = 2 x 0.00002085 x depth^2
    2062350 = depth^2
    depth = 1436m

    But this is all probably wrong. It was fun to try and work it out nontheless. If anyone has any other ideas I'd like to know.
    ShuryCZyomama
  • BENSKIBENSKI Join Date: 2016-08-07 Member: 221063Members Posts: 51 Advanced user
    I think that it is not at all unrealistic for the bases to produce their own oxygen. They are entirely surrounded by water, which is composed of 2H+ and O- ions (H2O), these can be separated into oxygen and hydrogen gases using an electrical current.

    I don't have a problem with oxygen being produced by the base, but what I don't like is that
    1. generating oxygen has no effect on base power when it should be substantial (it requires a powered base but actually draws no power)
    2. there is no tangible appliance (like the water filtration machine) that can be built to explicitly account for or manage oxygen generation

    I also think it is worth noting that, in my mind, pipes and/or an oxygen generator would also account for the production of CO2 and pump it out of the base as O2 is pumped in ...
    Therefore the fan/air-pump must accelerate 0.0000417kg of air to a velocity equal to the depth m/s (if the base is 500m deep the air must be at 500m/s), this means that the required mass of oxygen reaches the bottom of the base every second.

    I don't quite agree with you. ~ 0.00005kg of air needs to enter your base every second but you're implying that the air you pump from the surface has to transverse the full length of the pipes to reach the base within 1 second ... which isn't necessary. As long as the pipe is full of air then 0.00005kg of air can be pumped into the base at one end of the pipe as another 0.00005kg of air is drawn from the atmosphere at the surface end of the pipe. The velocity required is therefore the same regardless of the depth.

    What increases the energy requirement is actually the increase in the mass of air contained within the pipe which the fan/pump has to push through the pipes with greater force.

    0t67fvy4vle5.jpg

    In theory, exterior water pressure placed on the pipes would also need to be accounted for ... but for me the explanation of "we have really strong materials in the future" is enough for me to ignore that issue.

    It's more important, I think, that the increase in the power requirement (if added) is calibrated to suit the player experience (ie. reflecting the level of power capable of being feasibly produced by bases and only becoming too much of an energy investment once a certain, strategically chosen milestone/length of pipe is reached)
  • ImmortalHunterImmortalHunter Surrey BC Canada Earth Join Date: 2016-10-04 Member: 222853Members Posts: 54 Advanced user
    I think that it is not at all unrealistic for the bases to produce their own oxygen. They are entirely surrounded by water, which is composed of 2H+ and O- ions (H2O), these can be separated into oxygen and hydrogen gases using an electrical current. To form 1 mole of oxygen gas (32g), 286kJ of energy is required. NASA estimates that the average human needs 0.84kg of oxygen a day. Therefore the total energy requirement, for 1 day, (in joules) is (840/32)*(286*1000) = 7507500. To work out the power needed, divide this by the number of seconds in a day, 7507500/(60*60*24) = 86.89W.

    So a device that outputs about 100W of electrical energy is needed to provide enough oxygen (accounting for inefficiencies). Current solar panels output between 100W-365W according to Wikipedia, so it is entirely feasible to do this with today's technology, let alone the technology of the future.

    However, pumping air from the surface would almost certainly require less power and the air atmosphere in the base would need nitrogen in for it to be breathable (which I haven't accounted for).

    If you think that I have overthought this...
    ...you would be dead right.

    I was gonna say that...
    Answering the question of when it is more efficient to use pipes is a much more difficult one (one which mine shaft designers are paid a lot to do), so my maths will most likely be inaccurate, as it assumes that the base is essentially one long straight shaft with constant diameter. It also assumes that the base is full of air to begin with. Anyway, here goes.

    As I was writing this i realise there are some parts which don't appear to make much sense (such as accelerating air to 500m/s), but the answers I get still seem sensible, so who knows. I'll get back to you in 3 years once I've finished my degree. ;)

    As established before, humans need 0.84kg of oxygen a day, equivalent to 0.00000972kg/s (0.84/(60*60*24). Since air is 23.3% oxygen (by mass) this is the same as 0.0000417kg/s of air (0.00000972*(100/23.3)).

    Therefore the fan/air-pump must accelerate 0.0000417kg of air to a velocity equal to the depth m/s (if the base is 500m deep the air must be at 500m/s), this means that the required mass of oxygen reaches the bottom of the base every second.

    The power required to do this = energy/time. The energy = 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. So the power required = 0.5*0.0000417*depth^2 Watts = 0.00002085 x depth squared.

    Since the electrolysis of water (splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen) needed 86 watts (see previous post), we can work out when it becomes more efficient.

    86 = 0.00002085 x depth^2
    4124700 = depth^2
    depth = 2030m

    so at 2030m or deeper electrolysis is better than pipes, assuming 100% efficiency. However modern fans are lucky if they have 50%, meaning the pipes would need twice the power.

    86 = 2 x 0.00002085 x depth^2
    2062350 = depth^2
    depth = 1436m

    But this is all probably wrong. It was fun to try and work it out nontheless. If anyone has any other ideas I'd like to know.

    ...But not that. :p

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  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,330 Advanced user
    edited October 2016
    Rather than figuring out the numbers for the entire base as a whole, it might be easier to break it down to the individual units since once powered, each unit has it's own 02-production inner workings. (Fan/LED light source/Scrubbers/etc...)
    With that in mind, one would only have to figure out how much power each individual unit would need depending on its overall size and shape/volume.

    The interesting thing is figuring out just how powerful an air-pump would need to be at the surface, depending on how far down the air is to be forced through the length of pipe.
    B)
  • crimsontwilightcrimsontwilight England Join Date: 2014-03-30 Member: 195051Members Posts: 28 Fully active user
    @BENSKI I think I agree with you with your idea, but have no clue how to work out the power required to move the larger amount of mass. I started looking at some papers involving the flow of air in mineshafts, but the maths got very scary, very quickly :) . I think I'll ask one of my professors if they can help me and get back to you all.
    BENSKI
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,330 Advanced user
    edited October 2016
    What if each length of pipe has its own mini-fan inside?
    Thus each one would add to the total forced used?
    B)
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members Posts: 655 Advanced user
    I know more about evacuating chambers to vacuum than I do compressing air. Turbo pumps are interesting, but they only work in very low pressure. A lot of heavy-duty air movers use more mechanical action than simply "suggesting" to the air to move with fan blades.

    That top side though, needs to be one helluva compressor. The advantage of this is that you just need to move the air one way. Carbon dioxide can just be dumped externally. The topside compressor could use a flexible and collapsible tube, and just cram air in until it reaches the bottom. I suppose that optimally, you would want stages, but the air would pretty much just be at a slightly higher pressure than the water to keep it moving down.

    Or we can just again say screwit, and invoke the "gravity technology magic woowoo" clause and go with it?
    ShuryCZRezca
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depths Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Members Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    EvilSmoo wrote: »
    Or we can just again say screwit, and invoke the "gravity technology magic woowoo" clause and go with it?
    This. Overthinking sci-fi makes it so much less fun.

    Tarkannen wrote: »
    Another point for @crimsontwilight is the Water Filtration machine. It hooks up in the Multipurpose room to distill sea water into usable Salt and Water, but it doesn't connect at all to the outside.
    Actually @Tarkannen I believe if you build a water filtration machine and then go outside you'll actually see the inlet on the outside of your MP room where it's taking in the water.
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
    ShuryCZRezca
  • ShuryCZShuryCZ Czech Republic Join Date: 2015-07-07 Member: 206047Members Posts: 176 Advanced user
    edited October 2016
    Sidchicken wrote: »
    Actually @Tarkannen I believe if you build a water filtration machine and then go outside you'll actually see the inlet on the outside of your MP room where it's taking in the water.

    That is correct. Furthermore, there should be animation for the water intake, but is not there yet! I saw this one Trello card on production board, but cannot find it now.

    And I have my opinion now - I like the pipe system so far! Totally on point from the beginning and in the later stage of the game. Love it! :)
    Up, up and away!
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,330 Advanced user
    edited December 2016
    Anybody else having trouble getting the Base-Attached Air Pump to work after the Dec. 15th 2016 update?

    I have the blueprint to create one (and have the necessary amount of Titanium), but no matter where I point the Habitat Builder on the outside of my base nothing happens.
    B)
  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;) Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Members Posts: 1,179 Advanced user
    They attach to Multipurpose room's tops, and only the very top.
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,330 Advanced user
    edited December 2016
    Skope wrote: »
    They attach to Multipurpose room's tops, and only the very top.

    Couldn't even get that to work.
    The pre-build shadow-image doesn't even show up.
    :'(
  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;) Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Members Posts: 1,179 Advanced user
    Are you using the right pipe module? The one made by the builder, and not the Fabricator?
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
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