Enter the Roadmap - Natural Selection 2

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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Really you only need two numbers. # of RT's killed, and total structure damage.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Yeah, total structure damage makes more sense I guess.

    In response to @MoFo1 , for the sake of keeping things organized, unimportant stats are, well, unnecessary.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Unimportant stats also take database room. More stats = more costs.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    McGlaspie
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Unimportant stats also take database room. More stats = more costs.

    Yeah to be honest we don't need pages of pages worth of crap to see, I mean a few more extra is fine but is any more really necesary? It's like one of those things that sounds better than it actually is.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    McGlaspie
  • WobWob Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Posts: 485 Advanced user
    Y'all scrubs are too invested in stats so you can justify X because you did Y to Z.

    Don't mess about with these extra nonsense stats, not at least before score for damaging structures is buffed to give dat instant feel for the rookies
    meatmachine
  • bonagebonage Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-10-13 Member: 162230Posts: 119 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Finally we see a roadmap. Kudos to UWE for finally committing to some goals.

    So let's assume everything on the roadmap gets implemented. We're looking at late 2017 / 2018 before all this is completed at the earliest. This will be 6 years since the game launched, let alone all the alpha and beta time. 6 years in the modern FPS era where many AAA MP titles don't last more than 2 years... How many indie companies have successfully relaunched (ie a modified product, not a new product) a 6 year old MP game?

    Which brings us to the card titled: "NS2 Rebrand". I don't think any future work shouldn't be branded as an anniversary edition or anything else that is NS2 related. The window of opportunity for this has closed.

    Any future work needs to be branded as NS3 or a new title. It needs to be the equivalent of what the difference between cs:source and cs:go was. Hugh, on some level, seems to recognise this. He mentioned this a while ago:
    Hugh wrote: »
    I enjoyed reading your post and your proposal, bonage. As many horrific missteps as I took in the early days of the development restart, I think there are actually many similarities between my vision and yours. Your reference to NS2 as a 'giant experiment' is apt.

    This might sound totally wierd. But in my mind, NS2 is sort of "dead" already - Right now, everyone is already playing the NS3 "pre-alpha." Everyone that owns NS2 got a free invite. And the mission of the development team is to experiment with ideas like yours.

    If UWE is serious about investing in the future of this franchise, you guys should take a good step back and recognise that your time and efforts can be spent in more efficient ways that would benefit both UWE and the community. This is why I and many others don't understand your current development approach. You talk about making the franchise great again, but your development strategy is to use as little resources as possible to achieve this.

    Crowdfund/Early access your efforts to help raise the additional revenue needed to improve the quality and scope of the product. You would be surprised how many people would be willing to part with cash if you presented a clear long term direction with tangible milestones.

    That's just my 2cents anyway.
    Post edited by bonage on
    Captain of Hello/Hungry Together, AusNS2 Caster and AusNS2 Admin
    Yojimbo
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    No, please do not make major changes to this game and call it NS3. If they're gonna develop NS3, it has to be on a different engine, whether on Spark 2.0 (depending on how FP turns out), or on some other engine. That, and the fact that making enough changes to get a proper NS3, would be less efficient than building it from the ground up.

    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    snb
  • bonagebonage Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2012-10-13 Member: 162230Posts: 119 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    coolitic wrote: »
    No, please do not make major changes to this game and call it NS3. If they're gonna develop NS3, it has to be on a different engine, whether on Spark 2.0 (depending on how FP turns out), or on some other engine. That, and the fact that making enough changes to get a proper NS3, would be less efficient than building it from the ground up.

    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.

    That bit I mentioned about NS3 not being a big new game... you saw that right? Do you see the point I'm trying to make about the difference between cs:s and cs:go ?

    If NS3 has the expectation of having to be a brand new game... then just call it something else that's not NS2 - like ns:go. That should work.
    Post edited by bonage on
    Captain of Hello/Hungry Together, AusNS2 Caster and AusNS2 Admin
  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 975 Advanced user
    something like "Natural Selection : at it's best"
    return to zero
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    bonage wrote: »
    Do you see the point I'm trying to make about the difference between cs:s and cs:go ?
    I took that as to mean a complete re write.. which is a tall order
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 PersonSuper Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Posts: 3,014 admin
    to unite the world through play .... hahahahahaha.. you can't even unite your playerbase. who do you think you are? XD

    Developers of games. Successful ones, thankfully. Now please stick to the topic.

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

    NS2 Discord: https://discord.gg/0TKQwZWu7JEPeAgW

    Subnautica Discord: https://discord.gg/subnautica

    BeigeAlertKasharic
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 864 Advanced user
    Now-now @HEllrunner2k, play nice! :]
    Sure, the current devs did recieve a ready product to meddle with (afaik), but they did more good than bad, which requires skill and knowledge.
    They could be a bit more perceptive and humble though... but hey, we are primarily expecting a good game from them, not nice chit-chats accompanied by a cup of tea and biscuits
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    I have to admit, these edits are amusing. It's almost like a comedy skit, can anyone provide the best one's all together?

    Edit - probably not a constructive comment, you don't have to answer - myself
    Stark
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Posts: 264 Fully active user
    edited August 2016
    steam player numbers keep dropping. wonder when the devs are going to realize their "newbie retention only, make the game overwatch" idea is both hostile to their existing community and not actually making them any more dough.

    Really its impossible to still have any respect for you guys after stealing ns2 from my library. Still want you guys to give my donation money back after this epic bait and switch.


    i doubt you would have gotten even 10% of that money if you actually told people what you intended to use it on, its an absolute joke that ns2 would be better now if you hadn't gotten it. Its extremely dishonest and reflects awfully on your characters.
    VVoozaUncleCrunchcoolitic
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    @Mattk50 didn't you quit after b250 fade changes?
    mattji104
    IronHorse
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 864 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    @Mattk50 didn't you quit after b250 fade changes?

    It's just a lingering poltergeist acc, not the real @Mattk50... :P
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    @Mattk50 didn't you quit after b250 fade changes?

    I know I almost did.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Nordic
  • StardogStardog Members Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32448Posts: 303 Advanced user
    coolitic wrote: »
    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.
    I think it should be.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    Stardog wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.
    I think it should be.

    Idk pretty sure they're basically destroying wih subnautica compared to what ns ever was. And compared to some pretty popular shit too
    mattji104
    coolitic
  • StardogStardog Members Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32448Posts: 303 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    Stardog wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.
    I think it should be.

    Idk pretty sure they're basically destroying wih subnautica compared to what ns ever was. And compared to some pretty popular shit too
    I don't mean the original UWE team, but a community dev team with a few paid members like right now.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Stardog wrote: »
    I don't mean the original UWE team, but a community dev team with a few paid members like right now.

    That's a bad idea for developing a game from scratch, or any very large changes for that matter. A new NS (in any form) would definitely require the main team.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert TexasMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Posts: 2,829 admin
    edited August 2016
    coolitic wrote: »
    No, please do not make major changes to this game and call it NS3. If they're gonna develop NS3, it has to be on a different engine, whether on Spark 2.0 (depending on how FP turns out), or on some other engine. That, and the fact that making enough changes to get a proper NS3, would be less efficient than building it from the ground up.

    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.

    Where did you get this idea?

    We're not working on NS3 at this time. I can't speak for all of UWE, of course, but I'm sure that when the time comes to do NS3, it won't be just NS2.5... so to speak.

    EDIT: and if you link to that Hugh post one more time, I swear..........
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    No, please do not make major changes to this game and call it NS3. If they're gonna develop NS3, it has to be on a different engine, whether on Spark 2.0 (depending on how FP turns out), or on some other engine. That, and the fact that making enough changes to get a proper NS3, would be less efficient than building it from the ground up.

    NS3 should most certainly not be a priority right now.

    Where did you get this idea?

    We're not working on NS3 at this time. I can't speak for all of UWE, of course, but I'm sure that when the time comes to do NS3, it won't be just NS2.5... so to speak.

    EDIT: and if you link to that Hugh post one more time, I swear..........

    Was reponding to @bonage 's post. =P

    Also, what Hugh post?
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Vetinari
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Posts: 264 Fully active user
    edited August 2016
    Frozen wrote: »
    @Mattk50 didn't you quit after b250 fade changes?

    you can check my hive if you want and see for yourself, i learned the new fade and am as good with the new as i was with the old, even if i still dont think a generic bhop is as good as a mechanic unique to ns2. I expressed a dislike for those changes but the game wasnt ruined, its nothing like breaking hitboxes on purpose and removing all the gameplay that healthbars prevent. eventually these forums will come around to the side of the devs, because everyone else will have left after being so blatently ignored and resented. If i could still do a chargeback, i would. If this was the mod, the old team would have already been shitcanned by the collective will of the community and we'd have a new fork going.


    The sad thing is that steam has native ability to let devs host old versions, it would be trivial. Give us the build a few versions before healthbars, let people just play the game they paid for, and it wouldnt be as bad. And yet, we'll still get people whining about splitting the playerbase. Geeee, i guess its better if the people who just arent interested in overwatch selection straight up not play. Its funny, i've been playing overwatch and i prefer it to the UWE's imitation attempt. And when i get tired of playing overwatch, i'd normally play ns2, but instead i go to counter strike, because they have working hitboxes when i want them.

    if anyone was wondering where the OW thing comes from, just check the overwatch mentions in the roadmap trello.


    edit: To my surprise there's an NSL season 9 version hosted on steam, including the dedicated server. I dont have a rig suitable for hosting but im going to see if i can get it working... might have to find old mods too.

    edit2: seems like auth servers are disabled for this version, so we'd need to crack the game to get it working... bots dont even work.
    Post edited by Mattk50 on
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, EnglandMembers, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Posts: 717 mod
    Mattk50 wrote: »
    The sad thing is that steam has native ability to let devs host old versions, it would be trivial. Give us the build a few versions before healthbars, let people just play the game they paid for, and it wouldnt be as bad.

    soooo... you mean this then?
    3UwcwVL.jpg

    Yeah, feel free to get server hosts to set up and use the exact build you requested above... and then let people know that a server is using the exact build you requested.

    problem solved yeah?

    kk, we can move on now.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    DC_Darkling
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Mattk50- or you could take a look at NSL Competitive Mod in the workshop. This has a lot of things that are similar to season 9 (no healthbars), but keeps some of the new stuff in the game as well. Also has additional changes that are more comp friendly.
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