More of the same from you, I guess. You were done before you started, what with snide dismissal and irrelevant tangent being your go-to strategies.
But seriously, what exactly do you think I should be doing in order to prevent people like you from screwing this game up?
Nothing, I think you should go back to reddit where you're probably used to people agreeing with you all the time.
Where do you get off thinking your idea of what the game should be is more valid than other people's? In my opinion, you are the one who would screw the game up. Which is probably why your own game failed. But yeah, blame other people for your own failure, sure.
Correct. You've been here longer than me.
And you've made 5 posts.
This change you hate so much was made in response to what people have requested. Perhaps if you'd been more active on the forums, and submitted bug reports, and given praise to the devs for what you enjoy, they would have realised that people like it being instant.
Instead all they've heard is how people don't like the fabricator system. So they changed it.
And now no doubt they'll change it back.
Don't fix what isn't broken. I'm not going to come on the forums and post about how I like every single aspect of the game in hopes that they won't ruin it. I don't see how people posting on the forum now because they don't like the change is any different from you saying you didn't like it before. It's just as valid except now that you've gotten your way, you don't want there to be any chance it might go back.
@GlyphGryph and @EnglishInfidel. Y'all both need to chill. You're both acting arrogant AF, and this is a forum for discussions, not flame wars. Your arguments have both depreciated into name-calling and personal attacks. Stop. Seriously.
Don't fix what isn't broken. I'm not going to come on the forums and post about how I like every single aspect of the game in hopes that they won't ruin it. I don't see how people posting on the forum now because they don't like the change is any different from you saying you didn't like it before. It's just as valid except now that you've gotten your way, you don't want there to be any chance it might go back.
1. It wasn't broken, but it wasn't perfect either. That's why they're trying to find ways to make it better.
2. There's a big difference between giving your input regularly and only coming along with a complaint but no suggestions for any alternative. Nobody ever said they liked the fab system in all the threads we've had airing our thoughts about it previously. That's why this is so frustrating.
3. I haven't got my way, my way would be more like 30 minute wait for a knife to be completed, because as I've said, it feels more realistic within the sci-fi rules we've been given. This game isn't being made just for me by my own team.
4. Rest assured, it will go back. That's what makes this ultimately a pointless discussion.
@GlyphGryph and @EnglishInfidel. Y'all both need to chill. You're both acting arrogant AF, and this is a forum for discussions, not flame wars. Your arguments have both depreciated into name-calling and personal attacks. Stop. Seriously.
You're not wrong, I realise it's getting out of hand and that's why I'm done with him before the banhammer is felt. Though I do think we can both take it, and have taken worse.
It wouldn't even surprise me if it was the start of a beautiful friendship, it wouldn't be the first time.
Sorry for being a d**k, @GlyphGryph, we just have to agree to disagree.
2. There's a big difference between giving your input regularly and only coming along with a complaint but no suggestions for any alternative. Nobody ever said they liked the fab system in all the threads we've had airing our thoughts about it previously. That's why this is so frustrating.
Can you point at some of these threads? Admittedly I'm new to these particular forums, though I've been on the Steam ones for longer, but the only complaints I've heard about the fabricator before now was when it was changed so you had to manually remove things from it, which was not only annoying but also bugged so you actually lost items if you forgot to manually remove them.
3. I haven't got my way, my way would be more like 30 minute wait for a knife to be completed, because as I've said, it feels more realistic within the sci-fi rules we've been given. This game isn't being made just for me by my own team.
I don't know what game you've been playing, but 30 minute construction time doesn't fit any of the rules already established by this game. Perhaps you're thinking of a different one.
So you're complaining about it because you can't fix it. How about you take some advice that's proven very useful for me? Fix what you can't deal with, deal with what you can't fix.
No, I've already 'fixed' it. Multiple fabricators per base is not a problem for me, but that 4 minute wait for a constructor is an annoyance I would rather not deal with.
Also thank you for the advice, I am indeed trying to fix it by presenting my argument against that change while there is still time for that change to be reversed or adjusted to where I can deal with it.
Search for threads about realism. It's never had its own thread (I don't think) but it usually pops up as something that needs addressing before other things are. The most recent I can think of is when we were discussing how unscientific and unrealistic the situation was building a base deep down in an abyss. Various things were brought up, including how the crafting system needs an overhaul and it should be prioritised over other things.
I don't know what game you've been playing, but 30 minute construction time doesn't fit any of the rules already established by this game. Perhaps you're thinking of a different one.
Maybe I should rephrase.
Waiting 30 minutes seems more feasible for some futuristic technology made by the Alterra Corp. It makes a certain kind of sense, and is somewhat believable given the setting and technology.
Seeing something appear in seconds seems more like Elder Scrolls magic than any imaginable science, and (for certain people) is a real immersion killer.
You don't have to agree, or disagree, it's just a factual statement.
Realism is overrated. A coherent narrative is more important (and by this I don't just mean the story, I mean that gameplay should be consistent with the lore, and the lore should be internally self-consistent, but neither needs to be "realistic" by our current definitions).
More importantly, though, realism should never trump fun. And there's nothing fun about crafting delays, they're always just a contrivance. Sure, you don't necessarily need to do nothing while waiting for them, but it's still there for no purpose other than to waste your time. That's fine in an MMO (which is also there for no purpose other than to waste your time), but I would prefer that sort of thing be kept well away from single-player games. (Obviously it's up to the devs, though.)
If I recall correctly, you mentioned Warframe in an earlier post. This makes me curious where you sit on the "should this game have multiplayer" question. If you're one of the ones clamouring for multiplayer, then your argument makes a bit more sense -- though I still don't agree with it.
More importantly, though, realism should never trump fun. And there's nothing fun about crafting delays, they're always just a contrivance.
Opinion. Subjective. Some definitely disagree.
To a lot of people, the more realism, the more immersion, the less the need to suspend disbelief, the more fun.
but it's still there for no purpose other than to waste your time.
This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
Personally, I don't care. If it did get multiplayer, I'm sure I'd have a blast with it, but I'd still much prefer to find someone with my own taste so we can install some hardcore mods and play on our own server.
Otherwise I'd prefer to play single player, modded to my own preference, than any multiplayer experience.
I know I've said it a dozen times already, but it comes down to preference.
Some people were happy playing Fallout: NV vanilla.
I'm the kind of guy who installed the hardcore, enhanced crafting, remove 90% of guns and loot, and the one-shot-kill mods.
And in my own, personal opinion, I had the much more enjoyable, satisfying and rewarding experience.
Well, you are the only person (as of this time of posting) who has gone back to hit disagree with every single one of my posts up to now. The ONLY person, to EVERY post (what little of them there are so far). The timestamps also show them all dished out in sequence within two minutes, to posts made across a span of hours. Impressive dedication.
So I guess you do feel it's a valid tactic regardless of how you word it.
Hopefully, that isn't taken as a sign for people to go back and hammer the disagree button on all those post retroactively. But then, that would be "passive aggressive bullying.".
So Clearly the old guard in favor of drawn out timers won't pull that, if they are actually above such things.
EDIT: "Fathom disagreed with you saying they disagree with every one of your posts". Go figure.
This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
Clearly you haven't encountered casual mobile game developers. That's what they do best.
I know I've said it a dozen times already, but it comes down to preference.
Some people were happy playing Fallout: NV vanilla.
I'm the kind of guy who installed the hardcore, enhanced crafting, remove 90% of guns and loot, and the one-shot-kill mods.
And in my own, personal opinion, I had the much more enjoyable, satisfying and rewarding experience.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to imply that it wasn't about personal preference. I just don't see this as that sort of game, but ultimately that's the dev's call, not either of ours. I don't think that this sort of ultra-hardcore is the sort of thing that most people would like, but that might be my own personal biases showing. Still, the devs have said that they're open to the idea of mods after release, so perhaps we'll both get what we want through that mechanism -- same as you did with Fallout.
This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
Clearly you haven't encountered casual mobile game developers. That's what they do best.
Hey, game designer here who really loved the crap out of Subnautica when I played it a few weeks ago and told a bunch of other game dev folks to try it out. It grabbed me with an immediacy that drove me to marathon the currently implemented content over two days, and a big factor of my enjoyment was that the game never felt like it was wasting my time.
Not going to go into a lot of depth (lol) since I'm assuming this is a first pass implementation, but just going to toss out some stuff to think about:
Instant or near instant construction is a very 'safe' design. The build up / excitement aspect of making something new is intrinsically integrated into the process of seeing a new item blueprint exists, learning what materials makes the item, scouring for them, and bringing them back to complete crafting. That build up into the final decision of 'YEAH LETS MAKE THIS THING' and BAM you got it is inherently strong design with its own excitement ramp.
This doesn't mean crafting delay is bad, or worse than immediate, but that for it to be implemented it should have a design goal and feel that is just as strong (hopefully stronger) within your specific design philosophy for the project. I'd argue that if it only feels 'about the same' or 'a bit better' that erring on the side of Least Likely to Annoy People is the way to go for a mechanic like this. That's my gut call having seen the reactions of people to increased tedium and lightly justified time padding and not a final word by any means though.
What does the delay do for the game feel? Does breaking up the final player decision that would lead to the object being crafted and the presenting of that shiny new object create a valuable new space? Does the likelihood of a player distracting themselves and forgetting about an object and eventually coming back with an 'oh that's right, I have this thing now' disconnect not hurt the feel of progression? What interesting behaviors are players encouraged to do during these periods of time? Are they implemented yet?
This is going to create pockets of open time to fill within bases for the most part, is fiddling around in bases robust enough currently that this time is likely to be used effectively? If they aren't now, but eventually will be, is it worth messing with this mechanic before those aspects are implemented?
It's hard to make a significant crafting delay feel worthwhile or game-enhancing to a player, I'm honestly not sure I can even point out examples of long delays that I felt significantly improved a game's feel compared to the alternative of a quick animation and complete.
Definitely do A/B testing with new players and see their reactions to this kind of thing, and if you have planned content that would make crafting delays feel more cohesive and supportive to Subnautica's feel please talk about them! Lack of info can easily prime people to dislike a mechanic you're interested in exploring.
This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
Clearly you haven't encountered casual mobile game developers. That's what they do best.
I don't know what game you've been playing, but 30 minute construction time doesn't fit any of the rules already established by this game. Perhaps you're thinking of a different one.
Maybe I should rephrase.
Waiting 30 minutes seems more feasible for some futuristic technology made by the Alterra Corp. It makes a certain kind of sense, and is somewhat believable given the setting and technology.
Seeing something appear in seconds seems more like Elder Scrolls magic than any imaginable science, and (for certain people) is a real immersion killer.
You don't have to agree, or disagree, it's just a factual statement.
Here's a famous quote from Arthur C Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Do you know what Dark Matter is? No, you don't because no one knows what it is, we just theorize it as an explanation for an aspect of space we don't understand. The civilization in Subnautica knows enough about Dark Matter to harness it and stick in reactors to power spaceships.
And you think it would take them 30 minutes to make a simple titanium knife for underwater diving. A knife that our current technological level makes readily available.
The only fact about your statement is that immersion is subjective.
Realism is overrated. A coherent narrative is more important
Opinion. Subjective. Some would disagree.
No, a dis-coherent narrative is the quickest way to break immersion. Whenever you ask a work of fiction 'why is this happening' your immersion is breaking. Realism can be used as an explanation to that question, but it does not have to be the sole answer or even a very good one as people seem to think.
More importantly, though, realism should never trump fun. And there's nothing fun about crafting delays, they're always just a contrivance.
Opinion. Subjective. Some definitely disagree.
To a lot of people, the more realism, the more immersion, the less the need to suspend disbelief, the more fun.
Even some of the most realistic games use ragdoll physics for downed enemies/corpses/etc. They aren't realistic in the slightest but they are universally entertaining. Enough so that in many cases when developers move away from ragdoll physics, their playtesters tell them they are dumb for doing so, which causes them to put them back in. Chief example of 'fun trumps realism.'
Well, gotta add now something meaningful here: instead of going left or right (keep time) <-> (remove time) why not go find middle ground that satisfies both parties.
lets observe a little what card is "remove time" party really using. Scanner,habitat builder, flash light, welder and laser cutter all cluster together as needed tools for explorer and two of em been used as examples already. So instead of running "keep" or "remove" I propose alter time to build into something of 30-40 seconds : keeps time but doesn't make it too time taking for necessity equipment's.
on other hand I personally think seaglide and debloyables are in good spot now, so is stasis rifle and propulsion cannon and rest that's coming. Be mindful that most of time you craft these tools only once with exception of probably beacons.
(materials and survival knife are somewhat more than okey level, would prolly increase time for rebreather into 9sec, advanced wiring kit and computer chip into 7sec aka minor adjustments only)
I know this is the internet and all, but can't we just respect each other's opinions? I expressed my thoughts on the matter with one post, some of you agreed, some of you disagreed, that's completely fine if you disagree. I respect everyone's opinions, I know what I say won't change anyone's opinions, so I will say no more than what I've already said, I'll make no more points than what I've already said. Both sides have valid arguments, and I just side with one more than the other. But, hey, it's the internet, "how dare I share my opinion", right?
Wrong.
The reason why people are complaining is because this change ruins the game as is.
I couldn't care less about opinion of some random people over the internet, however I do care about the state of the game Subnautica I play.
Also, for example Valve is infamous for totally ignoring community feedback. The result: in 2014 average maximum simultaneous amount of people playing Team Fortress 2 was 100K. Now it is 62K.
Another example - Blizzard - since the release of SC2 LoTV game has lost a lot of players. The reason - several annoying mechanics that were added to the game. David Kim said that the changes were to make the game more spectacular during the tournaments - however the pro-gamers represent the miniscule amount of players, and polishing the game for them doesn't look like valid strategy.
If devs are not getting the feedback, or ignoring it, the game would bleed players.
GlyphGryph
+100
Man, do I envy your vocabulary)
English is my third language and it limits my ability to express my thoughts(
I apologize as well for getting heated last night, and I'll try to post more calmly going forward.
But it's really grating to be told I'm wrong because I'm trying to change the developer's "vision", because I shouldn't try to fix things, because I'm "dogpiling" and trying to apply the pressure of "popular opinion" ... only to discover that the people saying are the ones responsible for this change, this diversion from the developer's vision, because they complained the devs and dogpiled them with *unpopular* opinions away from the public eye first.
It's hypocritical as hell.
But I've said my piece, and I'm bowing out at this point. Devs, if you read this, I believe in you - but be careful about who you listen too, like EnglishInfidel a lot of them seem to have contempt for the bulk of your playerbase and listening to people who hold contempt for most of your players and taking their feedback at face value is probably not a good idea. (not that anyone's feedback should be taken at face value, of course...)
like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
please note that remove or keep shouldn't even be option, rather what should be minded is how to fine tune times to be fitting
in that note I again express where I think times should be lowered to half or so: Scanner , Builder , Welder , Cutter , Flash Light
reason: these are necessity equipment's for starting and exploring (tho Laser cutter is bit advanced level so maybe it can be on 60sec instead of 40sec field to craft)
like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
How long construction time improves gamer experience? How it makes game better?
like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
How long construction time improves gamer experience? How it makes game better?
similar question is "How instant gratification makes game better?"
also I must point that vocal major tends never be true major so this makes me wonder do silent major like or dislike time hence rather than keep arguing of keep or remove, try find middle ground that satisfies both parties
like explained bit earlier, maybe change track of this talk from "turn left or turn right" into "hows middle road"
instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
How long construction time improves gamer experience? How it makes game better?
There have been MANY benefits explained to you specifically, and you've said that they aren't benefits. Its clear your mind is made up, so why continue this?
similar question is "How instant gratification makes game better?"
Others have replied to this insult already.
I will repeat though:
searching for fragments is not instant gratification
searching for resources is not instant gratification
find a way to gather resources guarded by predators is not instant gratification
travelling back to base is not instant gratification
Construction time is a major pain in the neck that prevents players from going back to explore and serves ZERO purpose.
find middle ground that satisfies both parties
You can use your imagination
dealwithitdog
There have been MANY benefits explained to you specifically
You have written some senseless lunacy, and it was explained why it is so many times in this thread. I recommend you re-reading it.
I see no reason to continue any discussion with you because you simply ignore everything that other people says.
Don't fix what isn't broken. I'm not going to come on the forums and post about how I like every single aspect of the game in hopes that they won't ruin it. I don't see how people posting on the forum now because they don't like the change is any different from you saying you didn't like it before. It's just as valid except now that you've gotten your way, you don't want there to be any chance it might go back.
1. It wasn't broken, but it wasn't perfect either. That's why they're trying to find ways to make it better.
2. There's a big difference between giving your input regularly and only coming along with a complaint but no suggestions for any alternative. Nobody ever said they liked the fab system in all the threads we've had airing our thoughts about it previously. That's why this is so frustrating.
3. I haven't got my way, my way would be more like 30 minute wait for a knife to be completed, because as I've said, it feels more realistic within the sci-fi rules we've been given. This game isn't being made just for me by my own team.
4. Rest assured, it will go back. That's what makes this ultimately a pointless discussion.
We did come with with a suggestion for an alternative, the alternative is to not have artificial wait times. Why is 30 minutes more realistic? What about this world makes it seem like their technology isn't good enough to print a knife quickly? The fact that it spits out a knife really fast makes it seem like it's far in the future. What's next after these increased wait times? Should I wait two weeks for the game to build a multi-purpose room? If a knife should take 30 minutes, surely an object that large would take even longer. What do I do while waiting for my first multipurpose room to build? I can't really collect resources because there's no where to put them because my lifepod is all filled up. I can't use floating storage boxes because they don't hold enough and it would probably take two hours for them to build. Making people wait in a game for no reason is bad design. If you have to add in artificial waiting to make your game longer, you should find something else to do that takes up time while still engaging the player.
Comments
Nothing, I think you should go back to reddit where you're probably used to people agreeing with you all the time.
Where do you get off thinking your idea of what the game should be is more valid than other people's? In my opinion, you are the one who would screw the game up. Which is probably why your own game failed. But yeah, blame other people for your own failure, sure.
Your arrogance amazes me.
Now, I said I'm done here.
Don't fix what isn't broken. I'm not going to come on the forums and post about how I like every single aspect of the game in hopes that they won't ruin it. I don't see how people posting on the forum now because they don't like the change is any different from you saying you didn't like it before. It's just as valid except now that you've gotten your way, you don't want there to be any chance it might go back.
1. It wasn't broken, but it wasn't perfect either. That's why they're trying to find ways to make it better.
2. There's a big difference between giving your input regularly and only coming along with a complaint but no suggestions for any alternative. Nobody ever said they liked the fab system in all the threads we've had airing our thoughts about it previously. That's why this is so frustrating.
3. I haven't got my way, my way would be more like 30 minute wait for a knife to be completed, because as I've said, it feels more realistic within the sci-fi rules we've been given. This game isn't being made just for me by my own team.
4. Rest assured, it will go back. That's what makes this ultimately a pointless discussion.
You're not wrong, I realise it's getting out of hand and that's why I'm done with him before the banhammer is felt. Though I do think we can both take it, and have taken worse.
It wouldn't even surprise me if it was the start of a beautiful friendship, it wouldn't be the first time.
Sorry for being a d**k, @GlyphGryph, we just have to agree to disagree.
I don't know what game you've been playing, but 30 minute construction time doesn't fit any of the rules already established by this game. Perhaps you're thinking of a different one.
No, I've already 'fixed' it. Multiple fabricators per base is not a problem for me, but that 4 minute wait for a constructor is an annoyance I would rather not deal with.
Also thank you for the advice, I am indeed trying to fix it by presenting my argument against that change while there is still time for that change to be reversed or adjusted to where I can deal with it.
Search for threads about realism. It's never had its own thread (I don't think) but it usually pops up as something that needs addressing before other things are. The most recent I can think of is when we were discussing how unscientific and unrealistic the situation was building a base deep down in an abyss. Various things were brought up, including how the crafting system needs an overhaul and it should be prioritised over other things.
Maybe I should rephrase.
Waiting 30 minutes seems more feasible for some futuristic technology made by the Alterra Corp. It makes a certain kind of sense, and is somewhat believable given the setting and technology.
Seeing something appear in seconds seems more like Elder Scrolls magic than any imaginable science, and (for certain people) is a real immersion killer.
You don't have to agree, or disagree, it's just a factual statement.
More importantly, though, realism should never trump fun. And there's nothing fun about crafting delays, they're always just a contrivance. Sure, you don't necessarily need to do nothing while waiting for them, but it's still there for no purpose other than to waste your time. That's fine in an MMO (which is also there for no purpose other than to waste your time), but I would prefer that sort of thing be kept well away from single-player games. (Obviously it's up to the devs, though.)
If I recall correctly, you mentioned Warframe in an earlier post. This makes me curious where you sit on the "should this game have multiplayer" question. If you're one of the ones clamouring for multiplayer, then your argument makes a bit more sense -- though I still don't agree with it.
But your post is nothing but opinion.
Opinion. Subjective. Some would disagree.
Opinion. Subjective. Some definitely disagree.
To a lot of people, the more realism, the more immersion, the less the need to suspend disbelief, the more fun.
This is simply untrue. I've stated in previous posts potential purposes for a timer or a cool down period. No half decent developer sets out to implement something with the sole purpose to waste their customer's time. That would be utterly stupid and ridiculous.
Personally, I don't care. If it did get multiplayer, I'm sure I'd have a blast with it, but I'd still much prefer to find someone with my own taste so we can install some hardcore mods and play on our own server.
Otherwise I'd prefer to play single player, modded to my own preference, than any multiplayer experience.
I know I've said it a dozen times already, but it comes down to preference.
Some people were happy playing Fallout: NV vanilla.
I'm the kind of guy who installed the hardcore, enhanced crafting, remove 90% of guns and loot, and the one-shot-kill mods.
And in my own, personal opinion, I had the much more enjoyable, satisfying and rewarding experience.
Well, you are the only person (as of this time of posting) who has gone back to hit disagree with every single one of my posts up to now. The ONLY person, to EVERY post (what little of them there are so far). The timestamps also show them all dished out in sequence within two minutes, to posts made across a span of hours. Impressive dedication.
So I guess you do feel it's a valid tactic regardless of how you word it.
Hopefully, that isn't taken as a sign for people to go back and hammer the disagree button on all those post retroactively. But then, that would be "passive aggressive bullying.".
So Clearly the old guard in favor of drawn out timers won't pull that, if they are actually above such things.
EDIT: "Fathom disagreed with you saying they disagree with every one of your posts". Go figure.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to imply that it wasn't about personal preference. I just don't see this as that sort of game, but ultimately that's the dev's call, not either of ours. I don't think that this sort of ultra-hardcore is the sort of thing that most people would like, but that might be my own personal biases showing. Still, the devs have said that they're open to the idea of mods after release, so perhaps we'll both get what we want through that mechanism -- same as you did with Fallout.
Not going to go into a lot of depth (lol) since I'm assuming this is a first pass implementation, but just going to toss out some stuff to think about:
Instant or near instant construction is a very 'safe' design. The build up / excitement aspect of making something new is intrinsically integrated into the process of seeing a new item blueprint exists, learning what materials makes the item, scouring for them, and bringing them back to complete crafting. That build up into the final decision of 'YEAH LETS MAKE THIS THING' and BAM you got it is inherently strong design with its own excitement ramp.
This doesn't mean crafting delay is bad, or worse than immediate, but that for it to be implemented it should have a design goal and feel that is just as strong (hopefully stronger) within your specific design philosophy for the project. I'd argue that if it only feels 'about the same' or 'a bit better' that erring on the side of Least Likely to Annoy People is the way to go for a mechanic like this. That's my gut call having seen the reactions of people to increased tedium and lightly justified time padding and not a final word by any means though.
What does the delay do for the game feel? Does breaking up the final player decision that would lead to the object being crafted and the presenting of that shiny new object create a valuable new space? Does the likelihood of a player distracting themselves and forgetting about an object and eventually coming back with an 'oh that's right, I have this thing now' disconnect not hurt the feel of progression? What interesting behaviors are players encouraged to do during these periods of time? Are they implemented yet?
This is going to create pockets of open time to fill within bases for the most part, is fiddling around in bases robust enough currently that this time is likely to be used effectively? If they aren't now, but eventually will be, is it worth messing with this mechanic before those aspects are implemented?
It's hard to make a significant crafting delay feel worthwhile or game-enhancing to a player, I'm honestly not sure I can even point out examples of long delays that I felt significantly improved a game's feel compared to the alternative of a quick animation and complete.
Definitely do A/B testing with new players and see their reactions to this kind of thing, and if you have planned content that would make crafting delays feel more cohesive and supportive to Subnautica's feel please talk about them! Lack of info can easily prime people to dislike a mechanic you're interested in exploring.
Do you know what Dark Matter is? No, you don't because no one knows what it is, we just theorize it as an explanation for an aspect of space we don't understand. The civilization in Subnautica knows enough about Dark Matter to harness it and stick in reactors to power spaceships.
And you think it would take them 30 minutes to make a simple titanium knife for underwater diving. A knife that our current technological level makes readily available.
The only fact about your statement is that immersion is subjective.
No, a dis-coherent narrative is the quickest way to break immersion. Whenever you ask a work of fiction 'why is this happening' your immersion is breaking. Realism can be used as an explanation to that question, but it does not have to be the sole answer or even a very good one as people seem to think.
Even some of the most realistic games use ragdoll physics for downed enemies/corpses/etc. They aren't realistic in the slightest but they are universally entertaining. Enough so that in many cases when developers move away from ragdoll physics, their playtesters tell them they are dumb for doing so, which causes them to put them back in. Chief example of 'fun trumps realism.'
If the strongest counter argument to a disagreement, is just telling someone to stop talking/They don't deserve an opinion...
That's not a good sign. Regardless of whatever subject is at hand.
lets observe a little what card is "remove time" party really using. Scanner,habitat builder, flash light, welder and laser cutter all cluster together as needed tools for explorer and two of em been used as examples already. So instead of running "keep" or "remove" I propose alter time to build into something of 30-40 seconds : keeps time but doesn't make it too time taking for necessity equipment's.
on other hand I personally think seaglide and debloyables are in good spot now, so is stasis rifle and propulsion cannon and rest that's coming. Be mindful that most of time you craft these tools only once with exception of probably beacons.
(materials and survival knife are somewhat more than okey level, would prolly increase time for rebreather into 9sec, advanced wiring kit and computer chip into 7sec aka minor adjustments only)
That's basically everyone here. (Myself included)
The reason why people are complaining is because this change ruins the game as is.
I couldn't care less about opinion of some random people over the internet, however I do care about the state of the game Subnautica I play.
Also, for example Valve is infamous for totally ignoring community feedback. The result: in 2014 average maximum simultaneous amount of people playing Team Fortress 2 was 100K. Now it is 62K.
Another example - Blizzard - since the release of SC2 LoTV game has lost a lot of players. The reason - several annoying mechanics that were added to the game. David Kim said that the changes were to make the game more spectacular during the tournaments - however the pro-gamers represent the miniscule amount of players, and polishing the game for them doesn't look like valid strategy.
If devs are not getting the feedback, or ignoring it, the game would bleed players.
GlyphGryph
+100
Man, do I envy your vocabulary)
English is my third language and it limits my ability to express my thoughts(
But it's really grating to be told I'm wrong because I'm trying to change the developer's "vision", because I shouldn't try to fix things, because I'm "dogpiling" and trying to apply the pressure of "popular opinion" ... only to discover that the people saying are the ones responsible for this change, this diversion from the developer's vision, because they complained the devs and dogpiled them with *unpopular* opinions away from the public eye first.
It's hypocritical as hell.
But I've said my piece, and I'm bowing out at this point. Devs, if you read this, I believe in you - but be careful about who you listen too, like EnglishInfidel a lot of them seem to have contempt for the bulk of your playerbase and listening to people who hold contempt for most of your players and taking their feedback at face value is probably not a good idea. (not that anyone's feedback should be taken at face value, of course...)
instead of lashing with "remove time" rather ponder "what times one would be okey" as in ...what items precisely have too long craft time and in what ones craft times are on better side.
please note that remove or keep shouldn't even be option, rather what should be minded is how to fine tune times to be fitting
in that note I again express where I think times should be lowered to half or so: Scanner , Builder , Welder , Cutter , Flash Light
reason: these are necessity equipment's for starting and exploring (tho Laser cutter is bit advanced level so maybe it can be on 60sec instead of 40sec field to craft)
similar question is "How instant gratification makes game better?"
also I must point that vocal major tends never be true major so this makes me wonder do silent major like or dislike time
There have been MANY benefits explained to you specifically, and you've said that they aren't benefits. Its clear your mind is made up, so why continue this?
I will repeat though:
searching for fragments is not instant gratification
searching for resources is not instant gratification
find a way to gather resources guarded by predators is not instant gratification
travelling back to base is not instant gratification
Construction time is a major pain in the neck that prevents players from going back to explore and serves ZERO purpose. You can use your imagination
dealwithitdog You have written some senseless lunacy, and it was explained why it is so many times in this thread. I recommend you re-reading it.
I see no reason to continue any discussion with you because you simply ignore everything that other people says.
We did come with with a suggestion for an alternative, the alternative is to not have artificial wait times. Why is 30 minutes more realistic? What about this world makes it seem like their technology isn't good enough to print a knife quickly? The fact that it spits out a knife really fast makes it seem like it's far in the future. What's next after these increased wait times? Should I wait two weeks for the game to build a multi-purpose room? If a knife should take 30 minutes, surely an object that large would take even longer. What do I do while waiting for my first multipurpose room to build? I can't really collect resources because there's no where to put them because my lifepod is all filled up. I can't use floating storage boxes because they don't hold enough and it would probably take two hours for them to build. Making people wait in a game for no reason is bad design. If you have to add in artificial waiting to make your game longer, you should find something else to do that takes up time while still engaging the player.