Pulling back the veil - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 466 vanilla
edited July 2016 in NS2 General Discussion

imagePulling back the veil - Natural Selection 2

Hi everyone. I thought today would be a good day to take a moment and discuss some recent changes to the game. For almost a month, the dev team has...

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GORGEousFrozenIronHorsemoultanoremiBeigeAlertBicsum
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  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 758 Advanced user
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    I await the storm of reactions..

    DLetSkZ.gif
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    BeigeAlertNominousSantaClawscoolitic
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,831 admin
    edited July 2016
    The other hitbox comparisions that didn't make it into the post:
    Lerk Before:
    MWRQyLO.png

    Lerk After:
    cvo6TFF.png

    Fade Before:
    uOrkIac.png

    Fade After:
    fQsqr0j.png

    Direct overlay comparisons (yellow=old, blue=new)
    ef5JgL7.png

    EWTmxt1.png

    9m8bmEb.png
    Developer, Modder and Server Admin of Survival of the Fattest - Ingame Nick: Ghoul
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,479 Advanced user
    So can we buff fade hp now?
    mattji104
    RevanCorana
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    PSA:

    Everyone can compare the hitbox differences in great detail using the Viewer.exe that comes with NS2.
    Once you load the model you need to orientate it so it's not aligned in a funky manner. Select Window > Animation, then change the base animation to "Idle" and put "body_pitch" and "body_yaw" to the center.
    Then select Window > Physics, then click the Render Collision button (3rd one) and change the drop down selection box from "Default" to "Damage" to compare the old to the new.

    The Onos hitbox remains unchanged.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    remiGhoulofGSG9
  • KeatsKeats United States Join Date: 2014-11-04 Member: 199413Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 154 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    The Onos hitbox remains unchanged.

    You gotta be kidding me. What about all those times rookies shoot between the legs, or the horns, and it counts as a miss? Onos hitbox needs to be way bigger.
    PM sent.
    remiVetinari.trixX.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Posts: 2,689 admin
    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    These changes are not bad since they still require aiming and hopefully increase the feel/hits for people. Now the game just needs:
    1) Better/more tutorials
    2) Increased server rates so we can feel the game playing smoother and not just registering better.

    If you can do those 2 things, then you have finally done what this game should have done from the start. Then you can re-release the game or do something to attract more players.
    migalskiBicsumMe9aIronHorse
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester Posts: 2,689 admin
    alster wrote: »
    You need to keep other big changes hidden from the community, so they can't complain until they tried it already. What should be done in a future patch to balance the game for aliens is to make the skulk bite 1 hit kill, but don't post it in the changelog.
    This is genius. I'm sure no one would notice. :D

    [ Rek | Reklys | remedy | remi.D | blu.knight | Psyke | Sky ]
    I have way too many names.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,479 Advanced user
    xDragon wrote: »
    This was tried in the past and was removed for a reason... not sure if anyone still remembers. Of course its much less of a problem now with the general skill levels, but still. Most newer players are not going to be counting hits and feeling satisfied from just damage.. they want kills. Its intrinsic to good alien and marine play to stay alive, so regardless of the changes to improve the ability to land hits, you just end up having to compensate somewhere else.. unless you change the fundamentals of the game... and then you could effect the same result any number of ways.

    I have only read some of the changes at a superficial level for quite some time now, but I struggle to see where its all trying to lead.

    To Outer Tactical-Gamer
    mattji104
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,248 Advanced user
    FSFOD is on the team, this is the best feature implemented :smiley:
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 958 Advanced user
    and here I thought that server performance and hitreg did increase... anyway I liked that you kept it hidden. I knew those changes were coming but not that they were in already. Have been playing some pubs the last 3 days and as skulk it feels horribly frustrating to play against people who had no problems aiming anyway. So I think skulks suffer the most from this change. Even though it is easier to hit bites now the marines just have the advantage in range here and with that even a good ambush won't necessarily lead to success.

    Example on sunday I had multiple situations where a skulk completely caught me off guard and was able to get in 2 bites from behind (with silence) and I turned around and melted him before he could get the third bite in.

    Might just be me who sucks at skulk dodging but I have the feeling the skulks need a little something to compensate here.

    Lerk is fine. I can still pretty much dodge everything, the rest I can't tell.
    return to zero
    migalski.trixX.Me9a
  • migalskimigalski Boston Join Date: 2014-07-02 Member: 197181Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 111 Advanced user
    So this is why marine win % is at an all time high...
    The_Welsh_WizardNousWanderercoolitic
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    As it turns out, my conspiracy theory is not just a theory :DD
    Also, another bloody update which fixes nothing, and requires additional tweaking to fix balance.
    HP bars, bigger hitboxes... way to kill the game guys, *clap clap clap*

    This is a unique game, thats why you have (had) your playerbase. Copying mechanics from other games just because they do it and not considering context is stupidity on the capital level. I have no idea how your inner group reaches a decision, but you may want to update THAT instead of the game.

    Oooh oooh, I have an idea! Why not run servers with only bots, you have to pay for the botskill, and you get to watch your bot to play! No user input required, and the more you pay the more you own the other bots! You can also release that for console!
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    The_Welsh_Wizardcoolitic2coughHEllrunner2k
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,466 Advanced user
    This is a good change to experiment with, and one that has been coming for a long time, I guess.

    And while I understand your reasons... I'm not sure keeping it hidden like that was the best course of action.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • ReconDKReconDK Sweden Join Date: 2016-02-09 Member: 212797Members Posts: 7 Fully active user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    I await the storm of reactions..

    DLetSkZ.gif

    Inbetween a lot of the toxic people left, people with valid points also seem to have left the game. sO I am not sure there are that many people left to give feedback.
    Well that is, from the more competitive minded ns2 players.

    We at TAW are actively discussing the changes, but most of the veteran players feels the game has become too unbalanced for organized/comp play, so sadly a lot of players have left the game and are now playing Overwatch instead.
    2cough
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Keeping it hidden is the only thing I understand... Placebo effect is quite real
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    I only played yesterday, but it didn't feel more unfair as alien than two weeks ago. My accuracy definitely went up on both sides, but in the games I played, the marines weren't stomping. No <5 minute games or something like that. That was in a 7vs7.<br>
    Post edited by Bicsum on
  • tudytudy Germany Join Date: 2014-06-10 Member: 196468Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 22 Fully active user
    Now that the hitboxes are bigger -- completely besides whether that was a good decision or not -- wouldn't it be beneficial to also simplify them? As I look on the posted hitboxes it looks to me that somebody pressed select-all and enlarge. But I bet with the increased hitboxes you can also simplify them without losing accuracy.
    .trixX.Vetinari
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    PDT... "professional" is a joke in that acronym :(
    (with a few exception of course, as always)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
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