I don't really like it. A lot of people seem to be saying it's just mostly a veteran issue. But that works as a double blow for smaller communities like Aus.
Aus has been a dying community for years now (though we still have a pool of regulars to fill up our one server). But the general gist is that vets tend to mix with newbs a lot more than other servers.
Adding health bars does help new players But at the same time does make it stupidly easy for vets to priorities soft targets. Adding the potential of re life forming faster really doesn't help solve the initial problem of being focus fired from disciplined vets once they all know exactly how much health you have (which was always a strategy but it's being compounded with the introduction of much clearer visual information to share). At the co-ordinated level I think this weakens the game for many of us because it does make it much harder to mind game other players when all they need to do is tag us once and know exactly how healthy we are.
I think Fleas is right as well in saying that in many cases the true benefit of aura is knowing how healthy marines are. Which is a benefit the team has to invest in.
So possibly you could tie this 'marine aura' into the observatory either as a small upgrade like grenades or a benefit of having one built. The less compromising part of me wants it simply removed.
However I wonder if voices like mine or others in places like the Aus community really matter. It's already shown we're on the out. This change is for some other newer, potential new member. Not for the vets who have mostly enjoyed the standard format of this game for the last few years and are now wondering if it's worth staying.
Of course other vets may not feel this way. But this is my observation of what seems to be the mood shared by other people I play with.
I don't really like it. A lot of people seem to be saying it's just mostly a veteran issue. But that works as a double blow for smaller communities like AUS.
AUS has been a dying community for years now (though we still have a pool of regulars to fill up our one server). But the general gist is that vets tend to mix with newbs a lot more than other servers.
Adding health bars does help new players But at the same time does make it stupidly easy for vets to priorities soft targets. Adding the potential of re life forming faster really doesn't help solve the initial problem of being focus fired from disciplined vets once they all know exactly how much health you have (which was always a strategy but it's being compounded with the introduction of much clearer visual information to share). At the co-ordinated level I think this weakens the game for many of us because it does make it much harder to mind game other players when all they need to do is tag us once and know exactly how healthy we are.
I think Fleas is right as well in saying that in many cases the true benefit of aura is knowing how healthy marines are. Which is a benefit the team has to invest in.
So possibly you could tie this 'marine aura' into the observatory either as a small upgrade like grenades or a benefit of having one built. The less compromising part of me wants it simply removed.
However I wonder if voices like mine or others in places like the Aus community really matter. It's already shown we're on the out. This change is for some other newer, potential new member. Not for the vets who have mostly enjoyed the standard format of this game for the last few years and are now wondering if it's worth staying.
Of course other vets may not feel this way. But this is my observation of what seems to be the mood shared by other people I play with.
I would be kinda fine with that. It wouldn't change the pub server we all play in because our low numbers means we have to be especially new player friendly (at least in server settings). But it'd be a start. At least the occasional pug we have won't be hampered by it.
Oh and just make Combat part of ns2 again and have rookies learn lifeform mechanics etc there.
Combat was one of the best training platforms available to players of NS2, and it's really a pity that they made the decision to outsource its standalone development to a third-party. I could see classic being divided into a ranked mode (integrated with ENSL for a competitive tier) and a casual mode, and combat being a third mode promoted as a training vehicle. Granted, all of that presumes a large playerbase.
That said, my understanding is that there are massive logistical challenges which would have to be overcome in order to reintegrate the forked code. Possibly legal challenges as well.
Oh and just make Combat part of ns2 again and have rookies learn lifeform mechanics etc there.
Combat was one of the best training platforms available to players of NS2, and it's really a pity that they made the decision to outsource its standalone development to a third-party. I could see classic being divided into a ranked mode (integrated with ENSL for a competitive tier) and a casual mode, and combat being a third mode promoted as a training vehicle. Granted, all of that presumes a large playerbase.
That said, my understanding is that there are massive logistical challenges which would have to be overcome in order to reintegrate the forked code. Possibly legal challenges as well.
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
I mean its not their job but as a result the competitive scene is dead. Countless players left the game most likely permanently and based on the terms i doubt they'll bother ever coming back or purchasing anything else from uwe.
But this doesn't include those who are staying around leading to a huge increase in high level comp players playing pubs again. I've had friends who didn't pub for months then are now pubbing going 10 to 1 kd's just messing around. I almost lost a pub yesterday to a friend who solo carried his entire team going 80 and 6, the next highest not even breaking 20. With comp gone you're just going to see this more and more.
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
Sure that's why they incorporated dual exo and so many other compmod ideas into the vanilla game, to kill the comp scene.
Maybe the Ensl shouldn't have put their existence in the hand of modders that have become uninvolved with the game in the first place.
Because if they were involved they would agree or at least understand the weekly upgrades.
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
Sure that's why they incorporated dual exo and so many other compmod ideas into the vanilla game, to kill the comp scene.
Maybe the Ensl shouldn't have put their existence in the hand of modders that have become uninvolved with the game in the first place.
Because if they were involved they would agree or at least understand the weekly upgrades.
If the devs made NS2 ready for comp play there would have never been the need for a comp or nsl mod.
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
Sure that's why they incorporated dual exo and so many other compmod ideas into the vanilla game, to kill the comp scene.
Maybe the Ensl shouldn't have put their existence in the hand of modders that have become uninvolved with the game in the first place.
Because if they were involved they would agree or at least understand the weekly upgrades.
And they broke comp mod for what again? To add electrified rts and health bars? Stuff no one asked for, that doesn't help improve the general balance OR gameplay of ns2.
I mean, if they added changes that made sense (remove fixed spawns or cysts, etc.), then fair enough, go ahead and break comp mod if you have to, at least the gameplay will be better, but this trash is useless.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the PDT's SOLE objective is to increase retention and meet UWE's objective so they can keep their jobs, and they've shown more than once that they're willing to sacrifice the current community to get there. Unfortunately, that objective isn't in line with making the game actually better.
My 2 cents, many will disagree, but the PDT's actions have shown this time and time again.
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
Sure that's why they incorporated dual exo and so many other compmod ideas into the vanilla game, to kill the comp scene.
Maybe the Ensl shouldn't have put their existence in the hand of modders that have become uninvolved with the game in the first place.
Because if they were involved they would agree or at least understand the weekly upgrades.
If the devs made NS2 ready for comp play there would have never been the need for a comp or nsl mod.
Doom 3 had a comp mod too, this is not surprising considering game developpers are professionals that want to sell games right?
So unless the selling point is being e-sport oriented like CSGO, they try to appeal to a wide audience.
However what I do find baffling is that @xDragon didn't find a maintainer for compmod while he's away, which leads to the question, did he try and didn't find anyone? If so this lead to the next question, do comp player actually care about the comp scene in general?
Because they dont seem to.
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
@RevanCorana To be fair in my personal take on it, I don't care as much about playing competitive as I do about playing Compmod. The game is just so much fucking better.
And now No Rookies PUBBBBBB is suffering because they broke our mod too, not just the ENSLs.
Do you know what it's like to kill an Onos with a bunch of decent players in a balanced, fun, competitive round where everyones atleast kind of working together?
I DONT BECAUSE ITS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT HMGS
The combination of compmod breaking changes coinciding with the start of fully open Overwatch beta was truly terrible planning by the PDT. They really coulda let the season finish at that point and let comp die over the summer as usual.
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
Sure that's why they incorporated dual exo and so many other compmod ideas into the vanilla game, to kill the comp scene.
Maybe the Ensl shouldn't have put their existence in the hand of modders that have become uninvolved with the game in the first place.
Because if they were involved they would agree or at least understand the weekly upgrades.
And they broke comp mod for what again? To add electrified rts and health bars? Stuff no one asked for, that doesn't help improve the general balance OR gameplay of ns2.
I mean, if they added changes that made sense (remove fixed spawns or cysts, etc.), then fair enough, go ahead and break comp mod if you have to, at least the gameplay will be better, but this trash is useless.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the PDT's SOLE objective is to increase retention and meet UWE's objective so they can keep their jobs, and they've shown more than once that they're willing to sacrifice the current community to get there. Unfortunately, that objective isn't in line with making the game actually better.
My 2 cents, many will disagree, but the PDT's actions have shown this time and time again.
I respect your passion of this game but let me tell you it makes you (and others) very irrational.
The devs said many times their goal would be, get as many new players out rookie phase because they need enough time to see that game is awesome before they get overly frustrated and uninstall NS2 forever.
So yea their roadmap is focused on improving the experience (mostly) for new players however that doesnt mean they are willing to make NS2 less of a good game because that would on the other side of the coin make old player leave, which might be happening right now but more because of the insane amount of drama caused by the smallest changes like moving a certain server to a certain tab hemm.. than gameplay changes.
Is the trello card convoluted because UWE don't own the IP for the current HMG in CompMod? If not, can't you just call the card "Test the existing HMG from compmod in vanilla"?
Sorry, it's just funny when trello cards are described as if the proposed feature is being thought up for the first time ever.
I don't understand the point to make a new hmg when one already exists? Unless Dragon/Ensl was preventing you to just take it for now and change the model or statistics on it? Why make a new one?
No. Similar goals but not necessarily the same numbers.
We are currently planning on using the LMG model from Combat.
So why aren't you using what already proved to be a great addition, is balanced and adds more depth and fun to the game? When you say "similar goals" I do not think it is a good idea to differ too much from the comp mod HMG.
Or is it important for you to say "we did it our own way"?
No. Similar goals but not necessarily the same numbers.
We are currently planning on using the LMG model from Combat.
So why aren't you using what already proved to be a great addition, is balanced and adds more depth and fun to the game? When you say "similar goals" I do not think it is a good idea to differ too much from the comp mod HMG.
Or is it important for you to say "we did it our own way"?
Because the one you are used to using is catering for 6 vs 6 scenarios... where as UWE are catering to people playing variable sized games ranging FROM 6 vs 6 all the way up to double that (12 vs 12)... can you imagine 12 vs 12 with HMGs? not just that but in competitive you are reducing the potential map pool too, only including those maps considered "balanced enough" for 6 vs 6... so you imagine the effect 6 HMGs on the field at once on refinery would have.
*snip* removed unnecessarily generalization of parts of the community
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2016
I'd rather see an Onos nerf (in speed or player damage) than an HMG added to the game. (or better, add another Onos counter, such as let anti-Structural type weapons deal bonus damage against Onos) If it wasn't for the Onos, a super-rifle aka HMG is not needed in the game, and only ruins the fun for other lifeforms. Just my two cents.
I'd rather see an Onos nerf (in speed or player damage) than an HMG added to the game. If it wasn't for the Onos, a super-rifle aka HMG is not needed in the game, and only ruins the fun for other lifeforms. Just my two cents.
Comments
Aus has been a dying community for years now (though we still have a pool of regulars to fill up our one server). But the general gist is that vets tend to mix with newbs a lot more than other servers.
Adding health bars does help new players But at the same time does make it stupidly easy for vets to priorities soft targets. Adding the potential of re life forming faster really doesn't help solve the initial problem of being focus fired from disciplined vets once they all know exactly how much health you have (which was always a strategy but it's being compounded with the introduction of much clearer visual information to share). At the co-ordinated level I think this weakens the game for many of us because it does make it much harder to mind game other players when all they need to do is tag us once and know exactly how healthy we are.
I think Fleas is right as well in saying that in many cases the true benefit of aura is knowing how healthy marines are. Which is a benefit the team has to invest in.
So possibly you could tie this 'marine aura' into the observatory either as a small upgrade like grenades or a benefit of having one built. The less compromising part of me wants it simply removed.
However I wonder if voices like mine or others in places like the Aus community really matter. It's already shown we're on the out. This change is for some other newer, potential new member. Not for the vets who have mostly enjoyed the standard format of this game for the last few years and are now wondering if it's worth staying.
Of course other vets may not feel this way. But this is my observation of what seems to be the mood shared by other people I play with.
Add server toggable pls.
That said, my understanding is that there are massive logistical challenges which would have to be overcome in order to reintegrate the forked code. Possibly legal challenges as well.
ensl is dead unfortunately
Now everyones driven away and spiteful instead of usually indifferent
I think one of the downsides of the frequent updates is mod support (if I understand everything correctly), but it's really not the PDT's job to ensure that compmod works.
Might not be their explicit responsibility, but now they can add "single handedly killed ns2's comp scene" to their list of achievements.
pm sent
I mean its not their job but as a result the competitive scene is dead. Countless players left the game most likely permanently and based on the terms i doubt they'll bother ever coming back or purchasing anything else from uwe.
But this doesn't include those who are staying around leading to a huge increase in high level comp players playing pubs again. I've had friends who didn't pub for months then are now pubbing going 10 to 1 kd's just messing around. I almost lost a pub yesterday to a friend who solo carried his entire team going 80 and 6, the next highest not even breaking 20. With comp gone you're just going to see this more and more.
Sure that's why they incorporated dual exo and so many other compmod ideas into the vanilla game, to kill the comp scene.
Maybe the Ensl shouldn't have put their existence in the hand of modders that have become uninvolved with the game in the first place.
Because if they were involved they would agree or at least understand the weekly upgrades.
If the devs made NS2 ready for comp play there would have never been the need for a comp or nsl mod.
And they broke comp mod for what again? To add electrified rts and health bars? Stuff no one asked for, that doesn't help improve the general balance OR gameplay of ns2.
I mean, if they added changes that made sense (remove fixed spawns or cysts, etc.), then fair enough, go ahead and break comp mod if you have to, at least the gameplay will be better, but this trash is useless.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the PDT's SOLE objective is to increase retention and meet UWE's objective so they can keep their jobs, and they've shown more than once that they're willing to sacrifice the current community to get there. Unfortunately, that objective isn't in line with making the game actually better.
My 2 cents, many will disagree, but the PDT's actions have shown this time and time again.
Doom 3 had a comp mod too, this is not surprising considering game developpers are professionals that want to sell games right?
So unless the selling point is being e-sport oriented like CSGO, they try to appeal to a wide audience.
However what I do find baffling is that @xDragon didn't find a maintainer for compmod while he's away, which leads to the question, did he try and didn't find anyone? If so this lead to the next question, do comp player actually care about the comp scene in general?
Because they dont seem to.
And now No Rookies PUBBBBBB is suffering because they broke our mod too, not just the ENSLs.
Do you know what it's like to kill an Onos with a bunch of decent players in a balanced, fun, competitive round where everyones atleast kind of working together?
I DONT BECAUSE ITS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT HMGS
I respect your passion of this game but let me tell you it makes you (and others) very irrational.
The devs said many times their goal would be, get as many new players out rookie phase because they need enough time to see that game is awesome before they get overly frustrated and uninstall NS2 forever.
So yea their roadmap is focused on improving the experience (mostly) for new players however that doesnt mean they are willing to make NS2 less of a good game because that would on the other side of the coin make old player leave, which might be happening right now but more because of the insane amount of drama caused by the smallest changes like moving a certain server to a certain tab hemm.. than gameplay changes.
https://trello.com/c/4xIcwrdD/246-wire-up-a-machine-gun-for-marines
Is the trello card convoluted because UWE don't own the IP for the current HMG in CompMod? If not, can't you just call the card "Test the existing HMG from compmod in vanilla"?
Sorry, it's just funny when trello cards are described as if the proposed feature is being thought up for the first time ever.
sounds like something you would deploy, mg42?
Why the ones complaining dont participate in the playtest and voice it at that stage? (they cant, they are banned haha, i digress...)
The health bars feels like cheating though.
Will it be the same as the one in comp?
No. Similar goals but not necessarily the same numbers.
We are currently planning on using the LMG model from Combat.
So why aren't you using what already proved to be a great addition, is balanced and adds more depth and fun to the game? When you say "similar goals" I do not think it is a good idea to differ too much from the comp mod HMG.
Or is it important for you to say "we did it our own way"?
Because the one you are used to using is catering for 6 vs 6 scenarios... where as UWE are catering to people playing variable sized games ranging FROM 6 vs 6 all the way up to double that (12 vs 12)... can you imagine 12 vs 12 with HMGs? not just that but in competitive you are reducing the potential map pool too, only including those maps considered "balanced enough" for 6 vs 6... so you imagine the effect 6 HMGs on the field at once on refinery would have.
*snip* removed unnecessarily generalization of parts of the community
For consistency sake wouldn't it be better to make the LMG the default rifle and use the assault rifle for the HMG?
Granted both options are equally confusing to either ns1 vets or ns2 vets.
Wasn't onos just nerfed?
No doubt they'll make skulks able to reach maximum velocity without bouncing off walls?