Health bars on enemies

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Comments

  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Ryssk wrote: »
    This is what worries me, you want the experience to be "FUN"? So basicly you're trying to get this game more and more like Team Fortress 2?

    This seems like a flawless chain of logic with zero omitted steps in between.
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Well logic doesn't seem to work, maybe we need to do interpretive dance...

    Yeah, but on the other hand, when has violence interpretive dance ever solved anything?
    Luchs wrote: »
    remi wrote: »
    There's a whole lot of good that comes with this change, even though it definitely does mix up the meta.

    Would it be possible to elaborate based on which tangible metric or measure you reflect on changes made (not just this one, but in general), or in a more blunt way: What would, hypothetically, need to happen to convince you that the addition - even though done with good intention - this doesn't work as intended (by you) and should get reverted?

    The majority of voices it in this thread aren't in favor of the health bar, yet you still seem convinced that it's a good thing. Maybe it's because you see the bigger picture in which it makes perfect sense to make tracking easier for Marines - If so, why not share it? I think the past posts show very clearly that the general direction isn't understood, and the changes are mostly percieved as an attempt to mimick behaviors and designs of currently more popular games that, therefore, must be a good reference.
    Tinki wrote: »
    When I try to rationalize everything the best option i'm left with is that this is all a test/beta to see what should be implemented in a hypothetic NS3 :/

    I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.

    I'm starting to lean more towards a "classic" mod. I would name it "NS2 Chemo".
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
    I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.

    I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets tested there.

  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Mephilles wrote: »
    I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.

    I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets "tested" there.

    FTFY
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    @Tinki server side blood does not disable it consistently. I've never not used it since it was an option. They still appear
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Mephilles wrote: »
    I am still in favor of a return of the balance mod. The devs get to experiment with features, people get to give feedback, and parallely we can still play the default version of ns2 where we a guaranteed certain standards.

    I think the ns2 beta branch on steam is available for everyone in the public. New stuff gets tested there.

    Yeah... so how many people play there every evening, on average? The advantage of a balance mod is that you just need to switch servers, not steam branch. It's about accessibility.
  • remiremi remedy [blu.knight] Join Date: 2003-11-18 Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
    edited May 2016
    @remi The healthbars are not necessarily a bad idea at all, imo it's more to do with the lack of polish that they suffer from.

    They really need a smooth shading so as to not appear/disapear instantly on the screen out of nowhere.
    Maybe use the same exponential shading technique as the new crosshair hit-indicator.

    Because in addition to that, there is the problem that if you hit something but you don't aim at it perfectly, the healthbar disapears, very confusing.
    Imo add a guaranteed duration of the healthbar after hitting some target, like just 1 second would fix this.
    This is a great idea / great point. It might not be super easy to do, but it's one of those polish things that would definitely help make it feel better.
    Oh and also the healthbar themselves could be a bit clearer I think something more like this with clear 25/50/75 segmentation,

    https://dropbox.com/s/s5dr1pqy0n78t7k/unitstatus_neutral.dds?dl=0
    46d0a210tbxu.jpg

    The health bar segmentation is another thing we've talked about, independent of this change. The way insight does it communicates better info, and this is a pretty easy thing to change too as its just a texture change.
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Tinki wrote: »
    You can disable it by changing predicted blood in ns2+ option

    I thought mendasp fixed this? I enabled server confirmed blood hits and the health bar still appeared.

    Yes, I fixed this. You'll also get an independent toggle when the next patch hits (hopefully tomorrow).
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members
    edited May 2016
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.

    Since when did he become a moderator?
    Zek wrote: »
    There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.

    You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.

    Well done sir.
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.

    You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.

    Well done sir.

    In a similar facet: at first I was of no opinion, then strongly disagreed with the change, and now I've mellowed. It's definitely helped me get less angry at the game and at myself.

    It also helps me wreck people better as the Gorge, and that's a win.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Zavaro wrote: »
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    There's no question that freely available health information changes the combat dynamic in a fairly intrinsic way, beyond just a quality of life change. Obviously it's a less realistic and more arcadey mechanic. However I don't think it's a bad thing in a game where combat is incredibly hectic and difficult for new players to read. Having that information improves the perceived fairness and responsiveness of the game - if I lose a fight I know whether I was close to winning or not at all, which gives me feedback on my play. Even as a veteran player that makes the combat more enjoyable to me.

    You actually raise a fair point, I was initially indifferent to the change then became less impressed as time went on however this is a good argument and may sway me alittle bit.

    Well done sir.

    In a similar facet: at first I was of no opinion, then strongly disagreed with the change, and now I've mellowed. It's definitely helped me get less angry at the game and at myself.

    It also helps me wreck people better as the Gorge, and that's a win.

    My secondary reaction was when tracking a target in the distance, I felt the healthbars obscured the lifeform, at close range it becomes apparent marines survival chances are increased, however the urge to parasite kill has increased so it is all swings and roundabouts. I will probably warm up to the change more in the future however I do believe it requires alot more refinement that its current form.
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members
    Zavaro wrote: »
    It's definitely helped me get less angry at the game and at myself.

    It definitively fixes those pesky nsl fades. But you don't play Onos any more.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.

    No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
    This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.

    Use your words, and do so civilly, please.

    In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
    I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.

    No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
    This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.

    Use your words, and do so civilly, please.

    In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
    I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.

    Heehheee, oh we love your door @IronHorse

  • woozawooza Switzerland Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2016
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    @remi So we're just waiting till after the contract is signed then? -_-'
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Can someone please reign in Wyz and his over zealous moderating? This is getting ridiculous.

    No, he was in the right to edit that post. I would have done the same.
    This is not an imageboard, we don't communicate or mock others with memes or pictures around here, no matter how much something upsets us or how much we want replies.

    Use your words, and do so civilly, please.

    In the future if you take issue with any moderating please contact them directly or myself.
    I can't speak for others, but my door is always open.

    I do not know what he posted because it got deleted so quickly, same as many other posts here. I do not know what the problem with memes is though, also I do not know when he was made moderator but when your door is open, you should either consider to eject him from the comm chair or teach him to not delete all posts only because he does not like them.
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members
    edited May 2016
    Discussing that thing makes it less fun and really draws attention from the topic. (but I disagree with IronHorse about images in this specific case, because earlier in this thread there were some discussion about non-verbal communication)

    edit: To next @Yojimbo post: (audio) link
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    devel wrote: »
    Discussing that thing makes it less fun and really draws attention from the topic. (but I disagree with IronHorse about images in this specific case, because earlier in this thread there were some discussion about non-verbal communication)

    We all know communicating through the medium of dance is the best solution at this stage.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited May 2016
    I want to remind everyone that this thread is about Health bars on enemies and not about our community rules and moderation guidelines.
    Please stay on-topic and civil or create a new thread if you want to talk about something else!


    Generally your post won't be edited or removed if they are on-topic and written in a civil tone. And images without text/description are generally considered off-topic by us.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    There's a toggle so I'm happy, I won't lose all my targets again with the bars popping in and out. I'll just naturally adjust to the new feel of every lifeform being a bit more fragile over the next hundred or so hours.

    Sarcastic, but honestly, not sarcastic. I'll get used to it and it'll be fun feeling the difference. Learning b250 fade was great fun for a good amount of time, for instance. This is much more nuanced learning.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2016
    I had to check, but according to my t'seems that Beta ended on 2012 Oct 31st :trollface:
    Frozen wrote: »
    There's a toggle so I'm happy, I won't lose all my targets again with the bars popping in and out. I'll just naturally adjust to the new feel of every lifeform being a bit more fragile over the next hundred or so hours.

    Sarcastic, but honestly, not sarcastic. I'll get used to it and it'll be fun feeling the difference. Learning b250 fade was great fun for a good amount of time, for instance. This is much more nuanced learning.

    Let it go Frozen :tongue:
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    I started a poll to see how much support there is for the health bars. You can vote here. http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/142208/what-should-be-done-about-the-health-bar#latest
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    :) on the bright side, it's saving me bullets, the health bars are real useful on not firing an extra couple shots into a dead skulk. Don't get me wrong, i'm decent at listening and guesstimating based on the ting-tings, but this only adds to that. :)

    i'm not going to waste 2 extra bullets on jumping skulksies no more.
  • AltF4AltF4 Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22587Members
    I don't like the idea of beeing able to prey on low enemies with information given i am not supposed to have in the quality as it is now.
    If the opposite team uses teamplay to avoid that one is focused down too easy it should be rewarded, that element of game is breaking away now.

    On the one hand you insist to keep unrealistic player impairment on low hp which makes it much harder for rookies to stay on track - to keep "immersion", on the other hand you clutter in ugly dark red bars.
  • soccerguy243soccerguy243 Join Date: 2012-12-22 Member: 175920Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    are there many FPS that have enemy health bars?
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited May 2016
    Are there many FPS that have RTS elements with asymetric gameplay and a commander with top down view?

    I dont understand why people think that healthbars are a "gamebreaker".
    If a marine cant aim, he didnt aim better with healthbars.
    Its also amusing that people complain about healthbars but have no problems with damage numbers popping up in front of them.
    Lets say a vet deals 180 damage on an fade so he already knows how many hp left.
    Now he can see the damage he has done.
    Where is the difference?
    The heallthbars didnt tell him something new.

    For me it looks like "the drama" around the healthbars comes from the same people who dislike any change made in the past.
    New blackmail reviews inc.

    The game has issues that are really a gamebreaker like the broken skill system and the shuffle based on it.
    I just wonder why noone is complaining about this.
  • banaanimiesbanaanimies Suomi Join Date: 2014-08-11 Member: 197922Members
    I cant deal with these healthbars. Make dmg numbers go from green>red according to player HP and make it more visible and easier to track, maybe anchor it around the crosshair.

    Oh and just make Combat part of ns2 again and have rookies learn lifeform mechanics etc there.
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